Asbestos Exposure at Public Service: Mesothelioma

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY

5 LAW DIVISION: MIDDLESEX COUNTY

6 DOCKET NO. L-4700-94

8 JOHN BARBOSA and ARMINDA

9 BARBOSA, his wife,

10 DEPOSITION UNDER

11 Plaintiffs ORAL EXAMINATION

12 OF

13 vs. JOHN BARBOSA

15 ABB LUMMUS CREST, et al.,

17 Defendants

18 _________________________________

22 TRANSCRIPT of the deposition of the

24 witness, called for Oral Examination in the

1: 1 above-captioned matter, said deposition being taken

3 pursuant to Superior Court Rules of Practice and

5 Procedure by and before SUSAN A. DUPHORN, a Notary

7 Public and Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State

9 of New Jersey, at the BUDGET MOTOR LODGE, Route 9

11 North, Woodbridge, New Jersey, on Tuesday, June 17,

13 1997, commencing at approximately 9:15 in the

15 forenoon.

21 BRODY & GEISER

22 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS

23 90 Woodbridge Center Drive

24 Suite 520

25 Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095

2: 1 (908) 283-1060

5 A P P E A R A N C E S:

7 WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQS.

8 90 Woodbridge Center Drive

9 Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095

10 (908) 636-8000

11 BY: ANGELO J. CIFALDI, ESQ.

12 Attorneys for Plaintiffs

14 HOAGLAND, LONGO, MORAN, DUNST & DOUKAS, ESQS.

15 40 Paterson Street

16 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08903

17 (908) 545-4717

18 BY: CARLEEN M. STEWARD, ESQ.

19 Attorneys for Defendants, Condensor Specialties and

20 Raritan Supply

22 CLEMENTE, DICKSON & MUELLER, ESQS.

23 218 Ridgedale Avenue, Box 1296

24 Morristown, New Jersey 07962

25 (201) 455-8008

3: 1 BY: JEFFREY H. CLOTT, ESQ.

2 Attorneys for Defendant, Durabla Manufacturing

3 Company

5 MARGOLIS EDELSTEIN, ESQS.

6 216 Haddon Avenue, Box 2222

7 Westmont, New Jersey 08108

8 (609) 858-7200

9 BY: JOHN L. ZAORSKI, ESQ.

10 Attorneys for Defendants, Melrath, Woolsulate and

11 United Engineers

13 POLLOCK, MONTGOMERY & CHAPIN, ESQS.

14 2460 Lamington Road, Box 013

15 Bedminster, New Jersey 07921

16 (908) 234-0330

17 BY: BRIAN E. YESALONIS, ESQ.

18 Attorneys for Defendant, Global Management

20 WHITE & BAKER, ESQS.

21 1 Liberty Plaza

22 New York, New York 10006

23 (212) 553-1574

24 BY: DAVID P. SCHAFFER, ESQ.

25 Attorneys for Defendant, Lehigh

4: 1

6 A P P E A R A N C E S (Contd.):

8 PICILLO, CARUSO, ESQS.

9 300 Executive Drive

10 West Orange, New Jersey 07052

11 (201) 243-9100

12 BY: ADRIENNE MATTHEWS, ESQ.

13 Attorneys for CCR Defendants and GAF

15 ENRIGHT, LENNEY & McGRATH, ESQS.

16 88 Pompton Avenue

17 Verona, New Jersey 07044

18 (201) 239-3377

19 BY: THOMAS M. LENNEY, ESQ.

20 Attorneys for Defendant, State Insulation Corporation

22 WATERS, McPHERSON, McNEILL, ESQS.

23 300 Lighting Way

24 Secaucus, New Jersey 07096

25 (201) 863-4400

5: 1 BY: MATTHEW MALFA, ESQ.

2 Attorneys for Defendant, ABB Lummus Crest

4 McGIVNEY & KLUGER, ESQS.

5 23 Vreeland Road

6 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932

7 (201) 822-1110

8 BY: JOEL R. CLARK, ESQ.

9 Attorneys for Defendants, Bergen Industrial and

10 J. Heller & Sons

12 TUCKER & GOLDSTEIN, ESQS.

13 1415 Route 70 East

14 Suite 507

15 Cherry Hill, New Jersey 08034

16 (609) 216-9797

17 BY: LISA BECKMAN, ESQ.

18 Attorneys for Defendant, Owens-Corning Fiberglas

20 CHASAN, LEYNER, TARRANT & LAMPARELLO, ESQS.

21 300 Harmon Meadow Boulevard

22 Secaucus, New Jersey 07094

23 (201) 348-6000

24 BY: MARK C. CURTIS, ESQ.

25 Attorneys for Defendant, Robert A. Keasbey

6: 1

7 A P P E A R A N C E S (Contd.):

9 DELANY & OBRIEN, ESQS.

10 306 West Somerdale Road

11 Voorhees, New Jersey 08043

12 (609) 429-0003

13 BY: BETH CUSACK, ESQ.

14 Attorneys for Defendant, Notte

16 EVANS, OSBORNE, KREIZMAN & BONNEY, ESQS.

17 P.O. Box 88

18 Red Bank, New Jersey 07701

19 (908) 741-9550

20 BY: CHRISTINE HANLON, ESQ.

21 Attorneys for Defendant, Rutland Fire Clay Company

23 RUBIN, BAUM, LEVIN, CONSTANT & FRIEDMAN, ESQS.

24 555 Route 1 South

25 Iselin, New Jersey 08830

7: 1 (908) 855-2220

2 BY: MATTHEW PRZYWOZNY, ESQ.

3 Attorneys for Defendant, Rapid-American Corp.

5 KELLY, McLAUGHLIN & FOSTER, ESQS.

6 900 Haddon Avnue

7 Collingswood, New Jersey 08108

8 (609) 854-3360

9 BY: ERIK C. SHUSTED, ESQ.

10 Attorneys for Defendant, Riley Stoker

12 BUMGARDNER, HARDIN & ELLIS, ESQS.

13 673 Morris Avenue

14 Springfield, New Jersey 07081

15 (201) 564-6500

16 BY: NORA J. GRIMBERGEN, ESQ.

17 Attorneys for Defendant, Calon Insulation Corp.

19 MASON, TAYLOR & COLICCHIO, ESQS.

20 104 Carnegie Center

21 Princeton, New Jersey 08540

22 (609) 987-1381

23 BY: ALAN A. REUTER, ESQ.

24 Attorneys for Defendant, Leeds & Northrup

8: 1

8 A P P E A R A N C E S (Contd.):

10 MAGEE & ISHERWOOD, ESQS.

11 1937 Highway 35, Box 1200

12 Wall Township, New Jersey 07719

13 (908) 449-2500

14 BY: THOMAS ISHERWOOD, ESQ.

15 Attorneys for Defendants, Asbestospray Corp and

16 Alltite Gasket Co.

18 MAURO, SAVO, CAMERINO & GRANT, ESQS.

19 77 North Bridge Street, Box 1277

20 Somerville, New Jersey 08876

21 (908) 526-0707

22 BY: CAROLYN A. MORRISON, ESQ.

23 Attorneys for Defendant, Porter Hayden Company

25 GARRITY, GRAHAM, FAVETTA & FLINN, ESQS.

9: 1 1 Lackawanna Plaza

2 Box 4205

3 Montclair, New Jersey 07042

4 (201) 509-7500

5 BY: FRANK D. RODRIGUEZ, ESQ.

6 Attorneys for Defendant, UCC

10: 1

9 I N D E X

11 WITNESS NAME PAGE NO.

13 JOHN BARBOSA

15 Direct by Mr. Clark 7

16 Cross by Ms. Steward 106

17 Cross by Mr. Clott 119

18 Cross by Mr. Yesalonis 128

19 Cross by Mr. Schaffer 132

20 Cross by Mr. Zaorski 141

21 Cross by Mr. Curtis 165

22 Cross by Ms. Beckman 166

23 Cross by Mr. Lenney 184

24 Cross by Mr. Isherwood 187

11: 1

7 E X H I B I T S

9 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO.

11 D-1 Plaintiffs Answers to

12 Interrogatories 10

12: 1

10 J O H N B A R B O S A,

12 2721 Allen Avenue, Union, New Jersey, called as

14 a witness, having been first duly sworn

16 according to law, testifies as follows:

18 MS. MATTHEWS: My name is Adrienne

20 Matthews. Im from Picillo Caruso and I

22 represent the CCR defendants, one of which is

24 a third-party defendant in this matter, and we

13: 1 do not intend to waive any rights under

3 Georginne and we are in attendance only as a

5 precautionary measure in light of the

7 uncertain nature of the injunction.

9 MR. CIFALDI: Let me just put something

11 on the record. I dont know what that means.

13 My client is being produced here today.

15 This is the only time he will be produced for

17 his deposition, so if there are any questions

19 that need to be asked, they better be asked

21 today.

23 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CLARK:

25 Q Good morning, Mr. Barbosa.

14: 1

2 A Good morning.

4 Q My name is Joel Clark and Ill be taking

6 your deposition today.

8 Have you ever had your deposition taken?

9 A No.

11 Q Okay. Let me give you a couple

13 instructions that were going to use for todays

15 proceedings.

17 First of all, the woman to your left is a

19 court reporter. Shes here for the purposes of

21 taking down your testimony and making a booklet or a

23 record of it. Now, she has a difficult time if we

25 both speak at the same time, so I ask that you allow

15: 1

2 me to ask my question completely before you answer

4 and I, in turn, will extend the same courtesies.

6 She also cant take down a shrug of the

8 shoulders, hand gestures or a nod of the head, so I

10 ask, sir, that all of your responses to my questions

12 be verbal.

14 This is a large room. There are many

16 attorneys in this room who are interested in your

18 testimony today, so I would ask that you keep your

20 voice up.

22 If at any time during my questioning you

24 dont understand a question that I pose to you,

16: 1 please tell me and Ill be happy to rephrase it for

3 you. What we dont want you to do today,

5 Mr. Barbosa, is to guess. If you believe you can

7 make a reasonable estimation or an approximation to

8 one of my questions, please tell me that youre doing

10 so, but please dont guess at an answer.

12 If Mr. Cifaldi or one of the other

14 attorneys in this room poses an objection to the

16 questions, please allow that attorney to state his

18 objection for the record and your counsel will direct

20 you as to whether or not to answer the question.

22 Do you understand those questions, sir?

24 A Yes.

17: 1 Q Lastly, if youd like to take a break for

3 whatever reason, please tell me; well be happy to

5 accommodate you.

7 Can you state your name and address for

9 the record, please?

11 A John Barbosa, 2721 Allen Avenue, Union, New

13 Jersey.

15 Q And what is your date of birth?

17 A June 27, 1934.

19 Q That makes you how old today,

21 Mr. Barbosa?

23 A Sixty-three.

25 Q What is your Social Security number?

18: 1

2 A 152-32-9730.

4 Q How tall are you?

6 A Five-nine.

7 Q What is your current weight?

9 A One hundred seventy-six.

11 Q Has that weight fluctuated within ten

13 pounds over the last five years?

15 A No.

17 Q Are you on any medications today?

19 A Yes.

21 Q And what is that?

23 A Zocor.

25 Q Zocor?

19: 1

2 A Zocor. Thats for cholesterol.

4 Q Did you take that medication this

6 morning?

8 A No, last night.

10 Q You took it last night. Do you believe

12 the ingestion of that medication will in any way

14 affect your ability to give testimony for us today?

16 A No.

18 MR. CLARK: Let me mark these.

20 (Answers to Interrogatories are marked as

22 D-1 for Identification.)

24 Q Im going show to you, Mr. Barbosa,

20: 1 whats been marked as D-1 for Identification. Those

3 are the Answers to Interrogatories you and your

5 counsel provided to the defendants with respect to a

6 series of questions that we propounded upon you.

8 Does that look familiar?

10 A Yes.

12 Q And I believe Mr. Cifaldi was showing you

14 the last page, the certification page on there?

16 A Yes.

18 Q Is that your signature there?

20 A Yes.

22 Q Did you realize it when you were signing

24 that you were ascribing to the truthfulness and

21: 1 veracity to your answers?

3 A Yes.

5 Q Okay. Sir, in preparation to responding

7 to any of these questions, did you have occasion or

9 an opportunity to review any picture books or books

11 of labels or pictures?

13 A No.

15 Q In preparation to responding to those

17 questions, did you have an opportunity to review any

19 documents?

21 A Not really.

23 Q Can I see that back, please?

25 MR. CLARK: Angelo, if he could review

22: 1

2 yours while I look off of this.

4 MR. CIFALDI: Sure.

5 Q Sir, Im going to refer you now to page

7 one of your Answers to Interrogatories in which you

9 provide a list of the residences in which you have

11 resided throughout your lifetime.

13 Is that a complete and accurate list?

15 A To the best of my knowledge, yes.

17 Q Okay. At any of those residences did you

19 ever perform any home renovation work utilizing an

21 insulation product?

23 A No.

25 Q Are you married?

23: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q What is your wifes name?

6 A Arminda Barbosa, A-r-m-i-n-d-a.

8 Q How old is Arminda?

10 A Sixty-four.

12 Q How long have you and Arminda been

14 married?

16 A Since 1958. Thats 39 years.

18 Q Your Answers to Interrogatories indicate

20 that your date of marriage was December 8th of 1962.

22 Does that refresh your recollection or is

24 that incorrect?

24: 1 A No, thats incorrect.

3 Q What is the date of your marriage?

4 A Thats September 15, 1958.

6 Q How is Armindas health?

8 A She has a couple problems, you know.

10 Q What are her problems?

12 A She has the knee problem which is affecting

14 the other knee and she has respiratory problems like

16 wheezing, goes between asthma and bronchitis,

18 whatever.

20 Q Does Arminda smoke?

22 A No.

24 Q Did she ever smoke?

25: 1 A No.

3 Q Does Arminda work outside the home?

5 A No.

7 Q Did she ever work outside the home?

9 A Yes.

11 Q And what did she do?

13 A She was a seamstress.

15 Q Do you have any children?

17 A Yes.

19 Q How many children do you have?

21 A Two, a boy and a girl.

23 Q Can I have their names and ages, please?

25 A John Manuel Barbosa and Maria Arminda Barbosa.

26: 1

2 Q How old is John?

3 A John is 36.

5 Q How old is Maria?

7 A Thirty-three.

9 Q How is Johns health?

11 A Good.

13 Q How is Marias health?

15 A Good.

17 Q What does John do for a living?

19 A Hes a computer technician.

21 Q What does Maria do?

23 A Maria, she works for Xerox as a sales lady.

25 She works for AT&T also in a sales capacity. Right

27: 1

2 now shes home pregnant.

4 Q Are you in any way financially

6 responsible for the support of either of your

8 children?

10 A No.

12 Q Do you have any grandchildren?

14 A Not yet. Coming up.

16 Q Do you have any brothers or sisters?

18 A No.

20 Q Did you ever have any brothers or

22 sisters?

24 A I am told that my mother had a baby before me

28: 1 that did not make it, you know.

2 Q Are your parents still with us?

4 A My mother is deceased; my father is still

6 alive.

8 Q How old is your father?

10 A Eighty-six.

12 Q How is his health?

14 A Healthwise, hes fine. His head is starting

16 to fail, you know, but he has no high blood pressure,

18 no arthritis, nothing. No pain, doesnt get a cold.

20 Q How old was your mother when she passed

22 away?

24 A Seventy-three or something.

29: 1 Q Do you know what her cause of death was?

3 A Well, she started with breast cancer, you

5 know, and whatever comes with it, you know,

7 metastasis and stuff, you know. I cant tell you

9 exactly what the doctor put down, but it was cancer.

11 Q Did either of your parents smoke?

13 A Not really. My mother never smoked. My

15 father, sometimes I see him with a cigarette but not

17 as a habit, you know. He is very healthy, thank God.

19 Q Are you in any way financially

21 responsible for the support of your father?

23 A Not really. He is living with me, has his own

25 pension, you know.

30: 1 Q Mr. Barbosa, do you have any hobbies?

3 A Hobbies?

5 Q Yes.

7 A Well, I like to read, watch TV. Ive been

9 retired since 1991. Up until that time I did not

11 have time for hobbies when I worked for PSE&G. Now I

13 take my wife to the mall; I go to the beach when I

15 can, but I dont have any physical manual hobbies,

17 you know.

19 Q What month in 1991 did you retire?

21 A What month? I believe it was — let me see.

23 It was June. I dont know, end of June or beginning

25 of July, some time around there. In fact, you know,

31: 1

2 I retired and my six weeks vacation came on the top

4 of it, so officially I retired July something. July

6 20th or something like that.

8 Q How old were you when you retired?

10 A Sixty-one.

12 Q Was there any medical reason for your

14 retirement?

16 A Well, there was not an official medical reason

18 except that I was laboring. I was stressing and I

20 had an opportunity to get out because I had a major

22 accident through the company at that time, so I was

24 given the opportunity to retire because I had a tough

25 job and I wasnt feeling too good anyway.

32: 1

2 Q Did you say you had an accident with the

4 company?

6 A Well, that was — I fell in a hole and I broke

8 four ribs at the time. Nothing came out of it. Like

10 it healed properly.

12 Q Did PSE&G offer you an incentive to

14 retire, a severance package?

16 A Not really because I met the criteria at the

18 time to retire, you know, which was 80 years where

20 you have your age with the years of service and it

22 came up to 80, so — and I was over 55, so they let

24 me retire.

33: 1 Q When was the last time you took a

3 vacation?

5 A A vacation as far as even after I retired?

7 Q Yes.

9 A Last year.

11 Q Where did you go?

13 A Portugal.

15 Q Do you have any plans for future

17 vacations?

19 A Yes.

21 Q Where are you going?

23 A Portugal.

24 Q How did you get to todays deposition?

34: 1 A How did I get –

3 Q How did you get here today?

5 A Mr. Cifaldi brought me.

7 Q How did you get to the Wilentz office?

9 A I drove.

11 Q You have a valid drivers license I

13 assume?

15 A Yes.

17 Q Are there any restrictions on the

19 license?

21 A No.

23 Q Who does the chores around your house?

25 A Say that again.

35: 1

2 Q Who does the household chores?

4 A My wife does most of it.

6 Q Do you have a yard?

8 A Yes.

10 Q Who does the yard work?

12 A As far as cutting the grass?

14 Q Yes.

16 A Luis Piscapo (phonetic). Hes a landscaper.

18 Q You pay somebody to cut your grass?

20 A Thats his job, you know, hes a landscaper.

22 Q Do you have a garden?

23 A No.

25 Q Do you have a driveway?

36: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q When it snows, who shovels the driveway?

6 A When it snows, I avoid to use the car and

8 place it close to the road where I dont have to

10 shovel or I ask some kid that comes by. My son will

12 help.

14 Q Do you smoke?

16 A No.

18 Q Did you ever smoke?

20 A Yes.

22 Q When you smoked, what did you smoke?

24 A What did I smoke?

37: 1 Q Cigarettes?

3 A Cigarettes.

5 Q Do you recall when you started smoking?

7 A When I was a teenager I started to puff a

9 couple of cigarettes, you know, but I was never a

11 heavy smoker like. I was on and off smoking through

13 my life but always on the light side.

15 Q Do you recall approximately the year you

17 started smoking?

19 A Well, if you go back when I was — maybe the

21 first cigarette I was fifteen, sixteen, something

22 like that.

24 Q When did you quit smoking?

38: 1 A About maybe twelve years ago. Ten, twelve

3 years ago I stopped dead. Like from there on I did

5 not touch a cigarette again.

7 Q And on average, what was your average

9 frequency of cigarettes per day?

11 A Half a pack, less than half a pack. Sometimes

13 have a cigarette after the meal.

15 Q What brands of cigarettes did you smoke?

17 A Could have been Parliament. Always the

19 lights, you know, Marlboro Lights.

21 Q Why did you quit smoking about ten or

23 twelve years ago?

25 A Well, I wasnt feeling too good from my chest,

39: 1

2 you know, and I was having a lot of problems with my

4 voice, losing my voice, and I figured that working in

6 the environment that I was in, it was not in my best

8 interest to continue to smoke, and I thought I was

10 mature enough to give it up.

12 Q Did a doctor ever advise you to quit

14 smoking?

16 A Oh, yes.

18 Q Do you recall the first time a doctor

20 advised you to quit smoking?

21 A Well, in the last ten years or so Ive been

23 having — what do you say — things related to the

25 chest. You could call it colds too often, you know,

40: 1

2 voice problems, and the doctor, every time I went

4 there he would say Well, stop smoking. Dont

6 smoke.

8 Q Did you ever see a warning label on a

10 pack of cigarettes?

12 A Yes.

14 MR. CIFALDI: Just so I have a continuing

16 objection to that. Go ahead.

18 MR. CLARK: No problem.

20 Q Do you recall the first time you saw a

22 warning on a package of cigarettes?

24 A Not exactly.

41: 1 Q Do you know the decade?

3 A Maybe so. I dont know how many years, you

5 know?

7 Q You think you saw it in the 70s?

9 A 70s. 80s. I dont think so.

11 Q 80s?

13 A Probably late 80s, but Im not too sure about

15 that, you know. I cant precisely say when they

17 first came out with them.

19 Q Did you see a warning on a package of

20 cigarettes while you were smoking cigarettes?

22 A Yes.

24 Q What did you understand that warning to

42: 1 say?

3 A Something pertaining to the fact that it could

5 be hazardous to your health or something like that.

7 Q Did you ever smoke any cigars?

9 A Nothing except once or twice as a social, you

11 know, but never went to the end anyway. After a few

13 puffs –.

15 Q Did you ever smoke a pipe?

17 A No.

19 Q Did you ever chew any tobacco?

21 A No.

23 Q Do you drink alcoholic beverages?

25 A Im Portuguese. In our culture wine is part

43: 1

2 of the food, so to speak, you know, so I do drink a

4 glass of wine with my meal, not that Im an

6 alcoholic. Dont get that in your minds.

8 Im drinking alcohol since I stopped a

10 baby bottle, and my father used to give me a little

12 glass, you know, because they thought it was good for

14 you. Im from the Mediterranean from Portugal, you

16 know, and its a way of life, so I do drink wine.

18 Q Do you drink anything else?

19 A An occasional beer, social, you know, but not

21 as a habit or anything like that.

23 Q Have you ever been advised to stop

25 drinking by a medical professional?

44: 1

2 A No, I never had any problems related to that.

4 Q Have you ever been treated for an

6 alcohol-related condition?

8 A No.

10 Q Did you ever serve in the military?

12 A Yes.

14 Q And your Answers to Interrogatories

16 indicate that you were in the Portuguese navy. Is

18 that correct?

20 A Yes.

22 Q What were your years of service?

24 A Years of service? Okay. I have to explain

45: 1 something over here.

3 I was trained to be shipmate in the

5 Merchant Marines. I went to a so-called nautical

7 school. The closest thing over here would be the

9 Merchant Marine Academy. In the time in Portugal

11 its not.

13 Today at the Merchant Marine Academy you

15 stay on campus. At the time you went to school and

17 you learn and they put you on the ship and you learn

18 the rest of it. So this was pertaining to what?

20 Q The date.

22 A The date, okay. So as it comes to serving in

24 the navy, in between — during the summer vacations

46: 1 they sent us to the navy reserve and we had classes

3 there like the first time for like three months and

5 the following year for like seven months, and I was

7 there in that capacity in the navy. In other words,

9 I never went out to sea or anything like that.

11 Q Okay.

13 A It was mostly schooling.

15 Q And did we get to the date?

17 A Probably around — let me see — 52, 53,

19 something like that.

21 Q Okay.

23 A Two consecutive years: Three months in the

25 first year and ten months in the second year.

47: 1

2 Q So thirteen months total in the navy?

4 A Basically.

6 Q What were your job duties, just learning?

8 A Just learning. I was a cadet, as they call

10 it, and I was trained to be an officer to be able

12 to — in times of war our job would be communicate to

14 ports and stuff like that and we have to relate to

16 the navy ships that escorted us and be aware of

17 submarines and stuff like that, so they trained us

19 to — its mostly communications.

21 Q So you were never onboard a ship. Is

23 that correct?

25 A Yes, I was onboard a ship, but just for

48: 1

2 training for like two weeks or something like that,

4 not at sea.

6 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

8 asbestos while in the Portuguese navy?

10 A No.

12 Q While you were on that ship for two

14 weeks –

16 A No.

18 Q — did you ever have occasion to go into

20 the boiler room?

22 A No, I was not from the boiler room; I was from

24 the deck.

49: 1 Q Were you ever injured while you were in

3 the Portuguese navy?

5 A No.

7 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

9 chemicals in the navy?

11 A No.

13 Q Can I have the benefit of your

15 educational background?

16 A Its a little different from here, so you must

18 understand. In Portugal, in my days, you go to

20 grammar school for four years; you go to high school

22 for five years. I went through that. Then you have

24 two more years if you want to become a doctor, a

50: 1 lawyer. They call it a superior course. You have to

3 go two more years. That was secondary education. In

5 other words, if you want to become a bank teller you

7 stop at five. If you want to continue — I went two

9 more like. Then I went to the nautical school which

11 could go like a high education. It was a

13 professional thing, you know, and I went there for

15 two years. The training in the navy was

17 complementary to that one, so you could call it three

19 years in the nautical school.

21 Q So approximately in what year did you get

23 out of the nautical school? Would that be when you

25 got out of the navy?

51: 1

2 A I believe that was 55.

4 Q What did you do after you got out of the

6 nautical school in 1955?

8 A I went on a fishing boat to Newfoundland,

10 Greenland, northern Canada, Labrador.

12 Q How long did you work on the fishing boat

14 for?

15 A I was three years on fishing boat of that

17 kind.

19 Q So from approximately 1955 to 1958?

21 A Yes.

23 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

25 asbestos on the fishing boat?

52: 1

2 A No.

4 Q After you left your job on the fishing

6 boat, what did you do next?

8 A I went to a commercial boat, toggle, eight

10 passengers, mixed.

12 Q How long were you on the commercial boat

14 for?

16 A About a year.

18 Q Approximately 1958 to 1959?

20 A Yes. Thats when I came to the state, after

22 that.

24 Q What were your job duties on the

53: 1 commercial boat?

3 A I was a second mate on deck.

5 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

7 asbestos on the commercial boat?

9 A No.

11 Q Mr. Barbosa, I believe you just told us

13 that you came over to this country in approximately

14 1959?

16 A 59.

18 Q Why did you come to the United States?

20 A Why? Well, my wife was here. I knew her from

22 back in Portugal. We went — you know, school days.

24 Then she immigrated. Her parents were here. I met

54: 1 her there on a vacation and one thing led to the

3 other.

5 Before you know, we were talking about

7 marriage, and then came the question, Well, what are

9 you gonna do after you get married? I said Im

11 going to go back to the boat. Thats the only thing

13 I knew how to do. Why dont you come to the United

15 States? Maybe you can find yourself ashore, you

17 know, we be together. You know when people get

19 together, they still honeymoon, you know?

21 Q Okay.

23 A And I did that, and I wound up over here just

25 to be close, you know.

55: 1

2 Q Okay. And when you came over here in

4 1959 did you seek any employment?

6 A Did I seek –

8 MR. CIFALDI: Employment.

10 Q Seek employment.

12 A Obviously, yeah.

13 Q And what was the first job you got when

15 you got out to the states?

17 A My first job I worked construction. I had a

19 cousin in construction, took me building the

21 highways.

23 Q What type of construction was it?

25 A Building the highways, concrete. You know

56: 1

2 those concrete highways? To be exact, I was working

4 at 202 near Princeton/Somerville, but this was only a

6 matter of months; maybe five, six months.

8 Q Do you know the name of the company?

10 A Franklin Contracting, something like that.

12 Then I worked for another one for a short time, maybe

14 a month-and-a-half or something, Route 21 in Newark.

16 Between Newark and Belleville was Gio Brewster.

18 Q What was that?

20 A Gio Brewster, B-r-e-w-s-t-e-r.

22 Q And what were you doing for those

24 construction companies?

57: 1 A Not much. That was — my cousin was the

3 supervisor and I dont know if you know how they go

5 about it. They make a track like a train; they put a

7 machine on the top. Some of the workers do the

9 grading.

11 Now, when these tracks are on, this

12 machine comes along and has a chute, dump like, a

14 basket, and these trucks come loaded with concrete

16 and they dump it into this thing and this thing

18 spread the concrete between the tracks. In other

20 words, the tracks are a way for this machine to

22 move. At the same time, they have the forms to

24 contain the concrete, and my job was to back up the

58: 1 tracks and open this lever in the back and they would

3 dump this stuff and I would say Go.

5 Q That was the concrete you were dumping?

7 A Yes. I was never trained to do physical work

9 before, so, you know –.

11 Q Was that concrete already mixed?

13 A No, it was — was it mixed? Yeah.

15 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

17 asbestos or asbestos-containing products while

19 working for Franklin Contracting?

21 A No.

23 Q How about while working for George

25 Brewster? Do you believe you were exposed to

59: 1

2 asbestos?

4 A No.

6 Q Why did you leave your job at George

8 Brewster?

10 A Because the construction work was — I wasnt

11 trained for that. My intellectual level was a little

13 higher. I thought I could get better and I went to

15 look for another job and I wound up with Public

17 Service, you know, which I thought was a big company,

19 good future, whatever, and more opportunity.

21 Q That would be the PSE&G facility, Public

23 Service Electric & Gas?

25 A Yes.

60: 1

2 Q What was your home station?

4 A I started in Essex station as home station and

6 five years later I moved to Hudson station in Jersey

8 City.

10 Q How long were you based at the Hudson

12 station?

14 A Twenty-six years, 26-and-a-half years,

16 something like that.

18 Q So was Hudson your based station from –

20 A Most of the time, yes.

22 Q Until you retired in 1991?

24 A Yes.

61: 1 Q Did you also have occasion or opportunity

3 to work at any other generating station?

5 A Many times.

7 Q What other stations did you work at?

9 A Essex, Kearny. Even after I left Essex home

10 station I returned to Essex. Kearny station was

12 nearby; Marion station was adjacent to –

14 Q Hudson?

16 A Hudson. Bergen station. Thats about all.

18 We go to all the annual outages, plus major jobs, you

20 know, in between.

22 Q Okay. Mr. Barbosa, Im going to go

24 through the various generating stations and ask you

62: 1 some questions with respect to some of your jobs that

3 you had at those stations.

5 I believe you first told us that when you

7 started working for PSE&G your home station was the

9 Essex –

11 A Essex station.

13 Q — station, and you worked there from

15 approximately 1959 to 1964?

17 A Yes.

19 Q What were your job duties at the Essex

21 station?

23 A I started as an operator — operations as they

25 call it — which lasted maybe a year, and then I went

63: 1

2 to what they call the machine shop for the next four

4 years.

6 Q Okay. Lets talk about the time that you

8 were an operator for that one year at the Essex

9 station. What were your job duties as an operator?

11 A As an operator, you would walk around the

13 equipment, make sure everything was in order. I was

15 what they called at that time — my classification as

17 an operator was a helper.

19 As a helper, the control operator, if an

21 alarm sounded — lets say a hot bearing or something

23 like that — I would have to go and check that

25 bearing. If there was any oil, you know, report back

64: 1

2 to him. It was more or less of a — I had the

4 charts, like I had the temperatures and time

6 schedules and stuff, you know, and we changed the oil

8 on the equipment, but it was mostly a walk-around

10 job.

12 Q And during the time, that one year that

14 you spent as an operator at the Essex PSE&G facility

16 from 1959 to 1960, do you believe you were exposed to

18 any asbestos or asbestos-containing products?

20 A Today I know I was.

22 Q Okay.

24 A At that time I didnt.

65: 1 Q As you sit here today, looking back at

3 the time that you were employed as an operator at the

5 Essex station from 1959 to 1960, what types, shapes

7 or forms of asbestos-containing products do you

8 believe you were exposed to?

10 A Discounting or considering the type of

12 insulation on that station at that time — which was

14 one hundred percent asbestos, which I didnt even

16 know what the hell it was –

18 MR. CIFALDI: All he wants to know is

20 what shapes.

22 THE WITNESS: Shapes?

24 MR. CIFALDI: Yes.

66: 1 THE WITNESS: That I was exposed to?

3 MR. CIFALDI: Right, during that time.

5 A As an operator, I did not handle asbestos, so

7 I cannot specify shape at that point. I saw people

9 working around.

11 MR. CIFALDI: Well, thats what hes

13 asking.

15 THE WITNESS: Okay.

17 A It could be pipe covering, it could be

19 asbestos gaskets being cleaned and blown, you know,

21 with air, could be blocks, could be Stik-tite, could

23 be — which is a cement to put asbestos together, but

25 I was not handling this with my own hands at that

67: 1

2 time.

4 Q So you personally didnt work with any of

6 those products during that one year you were an

7 operator?

9 A No.

11 Q And during that one year that you were an

13 operator, would you have any way of knowing who the

15 manufacturer of the pipe covering was?

17 A No, it never went through my mind.

19 Q How about the gaskets?

21 A Never went through my mind.

23 Q And the block?

25 A Never went through my mind, no.

68: 1

2 Q And the cement, I think you said

4 Stik-tite –

6 A Yes.

8 Q — or were you just using it as a generic

10 term?

12 A It was not my job, so I saw people working,

14 working around me, but I had no knowledge what the

16 hell they were doing, what the hell they were working

18 with.

20 Q And during the time that you — that

22 one-year time period that you were an operator at the

24 Essex facility, did you ever have occasion or

69: 1 opportunity to see any outside contractors coming

3 into the Essex facility?

5 A No.

6 Q And did you ever have occasion –

8 A I saw them, but I didnt pay attention.

10 Q Did you ever have occasion or opportunity

12 to see any suppliers coming into the Essex facility

14 during that one year that you were an operator?

16 A Any –

18 Q Suppliers.

20 A Not at that point, because, like I say, I

22 was –

24 MR. CIFALDI: All you have to say is

70: 1 No. You dont have to explain.

3 A No.

5 MR. CIFALDI: No is sufficient.

7 Q Do you recall any of your co-workers that

9 worked with you while you were an operator?

11 A Joe Frieda (phonetic), Danny Bodeck, Jack

13 Waldon. Some of them — most of them are dead

15 anyway.

17 Q And while you were an operator at the

19 Essex facility, did you ever wear a mask?

21 A No.

23 Q Mr. Barbosa, then I believe you told us

25 that after that one-year stint as an operator you

71: 1

2 worked as a machinist. Is that correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And that would be from approximately 1960

7 to 1964?

9 A Yes, roughly, yes.

11 Q At the Essex station?

13 A Yes, though I went on an outage to other

15 stations from there.

17 Q Okay. Well discuss that a little later

19 on.

21 What were your job duties as a machinist?

23 A A machinist is supposed to maintain the

25 equipment, mechanical, you know. If there was any

72: 1

2 breakdowns, we were supposed to repair it.

4 Q What types of equipment would you

6 maintain?

8 A Pumps, compressors, generators, turbines.

10 Anything mechanical in the powerhouse.

12 Q And while you were employed as a

14 machinist at the Essex facility from 1960 to

16 approximately 1964, do you believe you were exposed

18 to any asbestos or asbestos-containing products?

20 A Yes.

22 Q What types, shapes or forms of

24 asbestos-containing products do you believe you were

73: 1 exposed to during that time period?

3 A Pipe covering, cement, blocks, blankets,

4 gaskets, packing. Thats about all.

6 Q And did you personally handle pipe

8 covering?

10 A Did I personally — yes.

12 Q Did you personally handle the cement?

14 A At that time, no.

16 Q Did you personally handle the block?

18 A At that time, except for dismantling. Like if

20 I went to work on a piece of equipment and the

22 asbestos was in the way, I would have to remove it,

24 yes, so –

74: 1 Q Did you personally work with or handle

3 the blankets?

5 A Yes.

7 Q Did you handle or work with the gaskets?

9 A If they come apart, we have to put them back

11 together, yes.

13 Q And did you personally handle the

15 packing?

17 A Yes, all the time. Packing and gaskets was a

19 way of life there.

21 Q Do you recall the brand name, trade name

23 or manufacturers name of the pipe covering at the

25 Essex facility from 60 to 64?

75: 1

2 A At the Essex facility, pipe covering, I think

3 Johns-Manville was the predominant. I cant be

5 precise now at that particular time, you know, Im

7 still a rookie there to pay attention to those names,

9 but Johns-Manville, maybe Owens-Corning or

11 something. Maybe Im not sure of that one at that

13 time.

15 Q Okay. We only want to know what your

17 recollection is. We dont want to know maybe or

19 could be, but if you have a recollection, specific

21 recollection of seeing those products there, then

23 please tell us.

25 A There was a room there I remember — I believe

76: 1

2 now. Like I say, I did not know asbestos was

4 anything, you know, so Im not sure at that point.

6 Q Okay.

8 A Later on I am.

10 Q Besides the Johns-Manville that youre

12 sure that you saw there from 60 to 64, can you

14 recall the names of any other manufacturers of pipe

16 covering?

18 A Not at that point.

20 Q How about the cement? Do you recall the

22 manufacturers of the cement product?

24 A I used to see the guys mixing it up at that

77: 1 point. I didnt know what it was because I was not

2 directly involved, but I cannot tell you for that

4 period when I was at Essex.

6 MR. CIFALDI: So the answer is no.

8 THE WITNESS: No.

10 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

12 block?

14 A No.

16 Q The blankets?

18 A No.

20 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

22 gaskets?

24 A No — yes. Anchor Packing and Maximillian

78: 1 (phonetic) and Garlock were conventional, like, you

3 know –.

5 Q And those would be the manufacturers of

7 the gaskets and the packing or –

9 A Yes.

11 Q Could you just –

13 A Anchor and Garlock was another one,

15 Flexitallic. Thats all I remember for that period

17 of time.

19 Q And while you were employed as a

21 machinist at the Essex facility, I believe you told

23 us, Mr. Barbosa, that your job duties would entail

25 working on various pieces of equipment such as pumps

79: 1 compressors, generators and turbines?

3 A Separators, condensers, all equipment

5 pertaining to the mechanical side of a powerhouse.

7 Boilers.

9 Q Do you believe you were exposed to

11 asbestos from your work on condensers?

13 A Condensers had no asbestos except for the

15 gaskets.

17 Q Okay. Do you recall the brand name or

19 trade name of the condensers?

21 A Worthington.

23 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

25 pumps?

80: 1

2 A The pumps, there was a lot of them.

4 Worthington was very predominant, the Ingersoll-Rand,

6 DeLaval. Basically those were predominant, you know.

8 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

10 compressors?

12 A Ingersoll-Rand.

14 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

16 generators?

18 A GE, General Electric.

20 Q Do you recall the manufacturer –

22 A And Westinghouse.

24 Q Okay. Do you recall the manufacturer of

25 the turbines?

81: 1

2 A It would be GE or Westinghouse.

4 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

6 boilers?

8 A Could be Foster Wheeler — was several boilers

10 throughout Public Service. Babcock & Wilcox, Foster

12 Wheeler. They were, again, the predominant ones.

14 Q This is, again, at the Essex generating

16 station?

18 A I cannot tell you at Essex generating station

20 the names of the boilers, okay?

22 Q Okay.

24 A The turbines are accurate and the generators.

82: 1 As for the boilers — because I wasnt on the boiler

3 side working at that time.

5 Q Understood.

7 A I only went there occasionally helping other

9 people, but not in charge of any job doing mostly

11 physical work like removing bricks and stuff.

13 Q You would remove brakes?

15 A Huh? I beg your pardon?

17 Q Did you say you would remove brakes?

19 A Yes, sometimes the bricks inside the boiler –

21 Q Oh, the bricks?

23 A — and we got to help take them out or hand

24 them to the man or whatever.

83: 1 Q Do you believe that the bricks that you

3 handled at that time contained asbestos?

5 A I dont know the composition of that, you

7 know. They were supposed to take temperatures up to

9 a thousand degrees.

11 MR. CIFALDI: If you dont know, you can

13 just say that.

15 A No, no.

17 Q Do you know the manufacturer of the

19 bricks at Essex?

21 A No.

23 Q And while you were employed as a

25 machinist at the Essex facility, did you ever have

84: 1

2 occasion or opportunity to see any outside

4 contractors performing work utilizing asbestos in and

6 around the vicinity in which you were working?

8 A No.

10 Q Mr. Barbosa, while you were employed at

12 the Essex facility as a machinist, did you have

14 occasion or opportunity to see any suppliers making

16 deliveries of asbestos-containing products?

18 A I did see trucks coming in and out. At that

20 point in time I never took note of it.

22 Q Do you recall the names of any of your

23 fellow machinists who worked with you or alongside

25 you at the Essex facility?

85: 1

2 A I said before like Danny Bodeck, Jack Waldon,

4 Joe Frieda. Eddie Palowski, Jimmy — I cant

6 remember the names now; its so long ago. We had

8 like seven, eight guys in our gang there.

10 Q If at any time during the course of

12 todays proceeding another name comes to your mind,

14 please feel free to volunteer that information.

16 A Yeah.

18 Q While you were a machinist at the Essex

20 facility, did you ever wear a mask?

22 A Did I ever wear a mask. Maybe sometimes,

24 yes. Maybe not.

86: 1 Q Why would you wear a mask?

3 A I dont remember. Its so long ago. I

5 cant — no. Let me say no. I –.

7 Q Okay. In approximately 1964 you left the

9 Essex facility and you went to work at the Hudson

11 generating station?

13 A Yes.

15 Q And the Hudson generating station was

17 your main base up until the time you retired in 1991?

19 A Yes.

21 Q What were your job duties at the Hudson

22 generating station?

24 A Station mechanic machinist. They changed our

87: 1 duties by that time and they made us — they gave us

3 a denomination of station mechanics which meant we

5 could touch anything. Before we were just

7 machinists. Now we could be carpenters, we could be

9 welders, we could be anything. Electricians.

11 Q And while you were employed at the Hudson

13 facility as a station mechanic and machinist, do you

15 believe that you were exposed to any asbestos or

17 asbestos-containing products?

19 A Now I know I was.

21 Q What types, shapes or forms of

23 asbestos-containing products do you believe you were

25 exposed to at Hudson?

88: 1

2 A Blocks, blankets, gaskets, cement, powdered

4 cement, packing, pipe covering which comes in half

6 sheets, you know, like two halves. You know what Im

8 talking about?

10 Q Like a half moon?

12 A Not half moon. The pipe is long, so this

14 thing comes like a pipe. You cut it down in half and

16 put it on each side.

18 Q Okay. Anything else?

20 A Basically thats the asbestos we –.

21 Q And did you also have occasion or

23 opportunity to work on any of the equipment?

25 A Oh, yes, I worked every day. It was my job.

89: 1

2 Q And what types of equipment did you work

4 on?

6 A Again, the same equipment: Pumps,

8 compressors, oil separators –

10 Q Oil separators?

12 A Oil separators, turbines, generators, heaters,

14 heat exchangers which was surrounded by asbestos.

16 Q Did you also work with boilers at Hudson?

18 A Yes.

20 Q Did you personally handle the block?

22 A Yes.

24 Q Did you personally handle the blankets?

90: 1 A Yes.

3 Q Did you personally handle the gaskets?

5 A Yes.

7 Q Did you personally handle the cement?

9 A Yes.

11 Q How about the packing?

13 A Yes.

15 Q Did you personally handle all that?

17 A That was a way of life most of every day.

19 Q Did you personally handle the pipe

20 covering?

22 A Yes.

24 Q Do you recall the brand name, trade name

91: 1 or manufacturers name of the block product?

3 A Johns-Manville was predominant there and

5 Owens-Corning or something like that.

7 MR. CIFALDI: Owens-Corning?

9 THE WITNESS: Owens-Corning.

11 A This was kind of an every day –

13 MS. BECKMAN: Objection.

15 MR. CIFALDI: He said it before too, I

17 mean –.

19 Q Any others?

21 A As far as blocks and –

23 Q This is just the block were talking

25 about.

92: 1

2 A Coverings.

4 Q Were just talking about the block.

6 A I dont remember anymore. Maybe there was

8 more. I dont know.

10 Q Okay. If at any time you can recall

12 another name, please feel free to volunteer that as

14 well.

16 A Yes.

18 Q How about the blankets? Do you recall

19 the manufacturer of the blankets?

21 A I believe they came from Woolsulate or

23 something. The blankets were fabricated outside the

25 company and they would come and put them in, and then

93: 1

2 when they left, next time we had a job we had to take

4 them out and put them in ourselves.

6 Q Do you recall the brand name, trade name

8 or manufacturers name of the gaskets?

10 A The gaskets, yes. Thats Anchor Packing,

12 Garlock, Maximillian, Lehigh, Alltite — I believe

14 its Alltite — Durabla, Flexitallic. Basically

16 thats all I remember. Could have been more again.

18 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

20 cement?

22 A Stik-tite was a way of life too, you know?

24 Everybody said Go get the Stik-tite.

94: 1 Q Any others?

3 A Other cements?

5 Q Yes.

7 A I dont remember.

9 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

11 packing?

13 A The manufacturer of the packing. Wait a

15 minute. Packing. Yes, thats Anchor, Garlock and

17 stuff like that, Maximillian. They made the packing.

18 Q Anchor, Garlock and Maximillian?

20 A Yes.

22 Q Any others?

24 A Alltite.

95: 1 Q Do you recall the manufacturers name or

3 trade name of the pipe covering?

5 A Pipe covering. I believe it was

7 Johns-Manville.

9 Q Any others?

11 A Owens-Corning.

13 Q Any others?

15 A I dont remember anymore.

17 Q Do you recall — withdrawn. You told us

19 that your jobs as a station mechanic and machinist

21 would involve working on various pieces of

23 equipment. One of the pieces of equipment that you

25 recalled working on were pumps.

96: 1

2 Do you recall the brand name –

4 A Yes.

6 Q — or manufacturers name of the pumps?

8 A Worthington pumps were predominant.

10 Worthington pumps, Ingersoll-Rand compressors — oh,

12 you only want pumps.

14 Q Just the pumps.

16 A DeLaval pumps and others that I cant recall

17 now. They could be made by anybody. These were, you

19 know, like on a powerhouse. They have these booster

21 pumps and they have these feed pumps which are the

23 basic pumps to set the thing in motion, and these are

25 the ones I worked with the most. There was minor

97: 1

2 pumps, work pumps and stuff like that. I cant

4 remember all the names now.

6 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

8 compressors?

10 A Ingersoll-Rand.

12 Q Were there any others that you can

14 recall?

16 A No.

18 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

20 asbestos from your work on oil separators?

22 A Not really from the oil separators. There was

24 pipe covering — a pipe that was covered leading to

98: 1 and away, but the oil separators, there was not much

3 exposure.

5 Q Do you know the manufacturer of the oil

7 separators?

9 A DeLaval.

11 Q DeLaval?

13 A DeLaval.

15 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

16 turbines at Hudson?

18 A Oh, yes. Turbines were Westinghouse.

20 Westinghouse. Thats it. Turbines.

22 Q How about the generators, Mr. Barbosa?

24 Do you recall the –

99: 1 A Westinghouse.

3 Q — manufacturer of that?

5 A Westinghouse.

7 Q Were there any others?

9 MR. CIFALDI: Im sorry. This was awhile

11 back. The pumps, did we do the pumps or –

13 MR. CLARK: Yes.

15 MR. CIFALDI: Who do we have as the

17 pumps?

19 MR. CLARK: He said Worthington, I-R and

21 DeLaval.

23 Do you want to see my notes, Angelo?

25 MR. CIFALDI: No. I missed that one.

100: 1

2 Q Do you recall the manufacturers of the

4 heat exchangers?

6 A I believe they were Foster Wheeler or

8 something like that.

10 Q When you say something like that –

12 A Well, you see, it was not my — I worked on

14 them but I didnt look — Im almost positive it was

15 Foster Wheeler.

17 Q Okay. Do you recall any other?

19 A And maybe Babock & Wilcox that manufactured

21 those heat exchangers.

23 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

25 boilers?

101: 1

2 A Foster Wheeler.

4 Q Were there any others at Hudson?

6 A I dont think so. That was not my field

8 there –

10 MR. CIFALDI: You dont have to explain

12 that. Youve emphasized that numerous times.

14 Q And while you were employed as a station

16 mechanic and machinist at the Hudson facility, did

18 you ever have occasion or opportunity to see any

20 outside contractors coming into the facility to

22 perform work utilizing asbestos-containing products?

24 A Yes.

102: 1 Q Do you recall the companies that would

3 come in?

5 A Yes.

7 Q And what are they?

9 A John Heller, Raritan Supply, Paterson Supply,

11 E&B Mills, Industrial Welding I believe.

13 Q Okay. I think you may be confusing my

14 question.

16 Im talking with respect to — did you

18 ever see any outside contractors or –

20 A Oh, contractors. Yes, yes.

22 Q — or other trades?

24 MR. CIFALDI: Hes not talking about

103: 1 suppliers. Yes, you gave suppliers.

3 THE WITNESS: I gave suppliers.

5 MR. CIFALDI: Say that next time.

7 A United Engineers and Woolsulate were resident

9 there almost –

11 Q Now well get to the supplier question.

13 And while you were at the Hudson facility, did you

15 ever have occasion or opportunity to see any

17 trucks –

19 A Yes.

21 Q — or companies making deliveries of

23 asbestos-containing products to Hudson?

25 A Yes.

104: 1

2 Q And what are those?

4 A John Heller & Sons –

6 Q John Heller & Sons?

8 A Yes — Raritan Supply, Paterson. The one I

10 said — Industrial Welding, E&B Mills that I

12 remember. There were other trucks going in and out,

13 you know, sometimes. I dont know anymore.

15 Q You just told us you saw a truck that

17 would come into the facility or trucks that would

19 come into the facility from John Heller & Sons.

21 What types of trucks would come in from

23 that company?

25 A What type of trucks?

105: 1

2 Q Yes.

4 A Trucks, you know, they were closed. Not open

6 trucks, you know.

8 Q Did you ever unload a truck from John

10 Heller & Sons?

12 A Its — no, no, that was not my function to

14 do.

16 Q Did you ever see a truck being unloaded

18 from John Heller & Sons?

20 A Yes.

22 Q Did you ever see what types of products

24 would come off a John Heller & Sons truck?

106: 1 A Well, those insulating products were part of

3 it. Maybe there was other stuff. I didnt go and

5 open the boxes.

7 Q Okay, Mr. Barbosa. I want to know if you

9 have a specific recollection of seeing products being

11 unloaded off of a John Heller & Sons truck.

12 A Yes, I saw the truck there many times

14 unloading, but I didnt go there and read the box.

16 Q So would you have any way of knowing what

18 types of products came off of the truck?

20 A Not by name, no, but they did bring

22 insulation. I dont know.

24 Q What types of products came off the

107: 1 truck?

3 A Well, if it was insulation, it could be

5 gaskets, it could be packing. It could be stuff like

7 that.

9 Q I dont know what it could be.

11 A It was –

13 Q I dont know what you saw.

15 A I know it was for a fact.

17 Q So you have a specific recollection of

19 seeing packing coming off the trucks?

21 A Yes.

23 Q And what else?

25 A I said packing, gaskets, gasket materials,

108: 1

2 rolls of gasket materials which were huge.

4 Q Anything else?

6 A Im sure they supplied other things. To my

8 job, thats what pertained to me, you know.

10 Q Do you know whether or not those products

11 that came off the John Heller & Sons trucks contained

13 asbestos?

15 A Oh, yes.

17 Q Whats the basis of your knowledge for

19 that?

21 A Well, asbestos — packing and gaskets, I know

23 today they were one hundred percent asbestos.

25 Q Do you recall the first time you saw a

109: 1

2 John Heller & Sons truck making a delivery to Hudson?

4 A Oh, years ago, many years ago.

6 Q Do you recall a decade?

8 A It was probably from the first day. They used

10 to be there numerous times, you know.

12 Q Do you recall the last time you saw a

14 John Heller & Sons truck making a delivery?

16 A The last time? No, I cant say precisely.

18 Q Do you recall a decade?

20 A Throughout the time I was there, which means

22 the 60s, the 70s and the 80s they were around.

24 Q What color trucks did they have?

110: 1 A I dont remember.

3 Q How did you know they were from John

5 Heller & Sons?

7 A Because I talked with the supervisors and they

9 talked to me and they said they had to call John

10 Heller & Sons to bring this stuff in, you know.

12 Q Im talking about the trucks that you

14 saw. How did you know they were John Heller & Sons

16 trucks?

18 A They have the thing on it, the lettering.

20 Q They had the name on it?

22 A The name on it.

24 Q Where was it, on the sides or the back?

111: 1 A I believe it was on the sides.

3 Q Do you know whether or not the writing

5 was in block lettering or script lettering?

7 A It was lettering, you know.

9 MR. CIFALDI: If you dont remember, just

11 say you dont remember.

13 A I dont remember.

15 Q Do you know what the color of the

17 lettering was?

19 A No.

21 Q Did you ever talk to a driver from John

23 Heller & Sons?

25 A Its possible. I dont recall.

112: 1

2 Q Were you ever responsible for ordering

4 products?

6 A No.

8 Q So you never ordered any products –

9 A Only on the size that I could tell my foreman,

11 my supervisor We are out of this packing. We dont

13 have any more. Please bring some more. There would

15 come the truck, you know.

17 Q You never ordered any products from John

19 Heller & Sons?

21 A Not directly, no. That was not my job.

23 Q Did you ever see an invoice from John

25 Heller & Sons?

113: 1

2 A Its possible.

4 Q When John Heller & Sons would make

6 deliveries, where would they drop the products off

8 to?

10 A At the storeroom.

12 Q And there was a main storeroom at Hudson?

14 A Sometimes if we were waiting for a product,

16 you know, which was called — because we ran out — I

18 could go right to the truck, meet the driver to give

20 me the stuff to bring directly to the job.

22 Q Did you ever see any hardware coming off

24 a John Heller & Sons truck?

114: 1 A Hardware? Yes.

3 Q Do you know whether or not John Heller &

5 Sons delivered any non-asbestos-containing products

7 aside from the hardware?

8 A I know for a fact that they delivered other.

10 Q What other stuff did they deliver?

12 A Mechanical stuff. Tools, God knows. Permatex

14 (phonetic) to make the gaskets. Its a paste to do

16 the gaskets. Inibusol (phonetic). Numerous products

18 that related to that, to manual work to the

20 powerhouse. They were a big supplier to PSE&G.

22 Q Do you recall the names of any of your

24 co-workers at Hudson?

115: 1 A Yes. Harry Menta, Jim Pargas (phonetic),

3 Danny Bodeck, Tony Appalesi (phonetic), Mario

5 Teixeira, John Kelly, Fred Frongey. We were like

7 under some guys, you know.

9 Q Did you ever wear a mask at the Hudson

11 facility?

13 A Yes.

15 Q And why would you wear a mask?

17 A Well, there was a point in time the doctor

19 tell us, you know. First was obvious; there was dust

21 around, so at a certain point in time they started to

23 emphasize to use masks. It was not enforced like,

25 you know. You go on a job and –.

116: 1

2 Q Did you ever wear a respirator?

4 A Towards the end, yes. In the 80s we started

6 to use those things.

7 Q Did there come a time at the Hudson

9 facility that youre aware of that PSE&G stopped

11 ordering asbestos-containing products?

13 A There was a time some time in the mid 80s,

15 late 80s we were formally informed that they would

17 not buy more asbestos, whatever, you know.

19 Q And did there come a time at PSE&G where

21 the company initiated an asbestos abatement program?

23 A They did stop using asbestos for

25 replacements. As they took asbestos out to get a

117: 1

2 piece of equipment, the covering that they would go

4 and replace, that would be supposedly non-asbestos.

6 I have no way to chemically demonstrate that, but I

8 believe –

10 Q And you believe that was approximately in

12 the mid 80s as well?

14 A Well, maybe the mid 70s they started to sort

16 out asbestos. Mid 80s. When I mean mid 80s,

18 thats when we were formally informed that it was

20 asbestos.

22 Q You also told us, Mr. Barbosa, that on

24 occasion you would work at the Kearny, Marion and

118: 1 Bergen facilities. Is that correct?

3 A Yes.

5 (Recess.)

6 (The deposition resumes at 10:25 a.m.)

8 Q Okay, Mr. Barbosa, were back on the

10 record and youre still under oath.

12 I believe we last left off with me asking

14 you questions with respect to the other PSE&G

16 facilities in which you worked.

18 A Yes.

20 Q With respect to Kearny, do you recall the

22 first time that you went to work at Kearny?

24 A Dates, no.

119: 1 Q How about the decade?

3 A In let me say — go back to Essex station

5 okay, between 59 and 64. I did go to Kearny from

7 there.

9 Q So the late 50s, early 60s youd say

11 the first time?

13 A Yes.

15 Q How about the last time?

17 A The last time? I retired in 1991. Maybe

19 could be two, three years before, something like

21 that. So were talking about 88 –

23 Q 89?

25 A 89, 88. Could be 90, you know? I cant

120: 1

2 recall that.

4 Q Sure. Were just trying to get your best

5 estimate.

7 A But I was there I think once a year, sometimes

9 more, you know.

11 Q If you could add up all the time

13 collectively that you spent at Kearny, could you give

15 us an approximation of the amount of time?

17 A Oh, months, months, months.

19 Q Throughout your whole career?

21 A Throughout the whole career you could add up

23 months because we used to go there for outages. The

25 outage could last two, three months. So if we went

121: 1

2 there six, seven times, it could be a year; I mean

4 this, again, is — could be eleven months, could be

6 thirteen.

8 Q You told us you went there at least three

10 times per year. Is that correct?

12 A Basically, yes. If you go this time, maybe

14 the next time youre gonna go. You could say on the

16 average, almost every year, every other year you were

18 there.

20 Q Could you give us an amount of months if

22 you could total up all the time you were at Kearny?

24 A Could be fifteen months, could be twelve

122: 1 months; I cant precisely say, but we were there

3 substantially an amount of months there.

4 Q So anywhere from approximately twelve to

6 fifteen months total time?

8 A Could be.

10 Q And were your job duties basically the

12 same –

14 A The same.

16 Q — at the Kearny station as they were at

18 the Hudson facility?

20 A The same.

22 Q Do you believe you were exposed to any

24 asbestos at the Kearny facility?

123: 1 A A lot.

3 Q What types, shapes and forms?

5 A Kearny was all asbestos. It was one of the

7 oldest stations. Blocks, covering, blankets,

9 gaskets, packing. Kearny was infested with asbestos.

11 Q Did you work on any equipment at Kearny?

13 A Yes.

15 Q What type of equipment?

17 A Pumps, valves or turbines and generators.

19 Q Did you personally handle all those

21 products at Kearny?

23 A Like any other place, you know, if we had to

25 work on the equipment we had to move it. Sometimes

124: 1

2 we had to put it back; sometimes somebody else would

3 come and put it back; sometimes somebody else was

5 working next to it, you know, to you.

7 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

9 block?

11 A Yeah, going back again to Johns-Manville,

13 Owens-Corning. They were predominant. Maybe there

15 were others.

17 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

19 pipe covering?

21 A The same as I said.

23 Q The same as the block?

25 A Yes, yes.

125: 1

2 Q Do you recall the name of the

4 manufacturer of the blankets at Kearny?

6 A Again, as I said before — Im going to repeat

8 it. The blankets were not manufactured by us; they

10 were supplied by some contractor. Normally they

12 would custom make it. They would come, take

14 measurements.

16 Q Do you recall which contractor supplied

18 the blankets to Kearny?

20 A Could be Woolsulate. I cant say precisely.

22 Q Do you know or can you recall the

24 manufacturer of the gaskets you utilized at Kearny?

126: 1 A Oh, yes, the same as before. Thats Garlock,

2 Anchor Packing, Durabla, Lehigh, Alltite. These were

4 constant throughout the company for this, the same

6 reasons, same purpose.

8 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

10 packing at Kearny?

12 A Same as before that I said. The packing was

14 always the same; the gaskets were all the same

16 throughout the powerhouse, and those were the four or

18 five I mentioned that were predominant.

20 Q For the packing?

22 A Packing or gaskets.

24 Q They were the same manufacturers for both

127: 1 products?

3 A Yes, thats what we used as a supply. Maybe a

5 little pump came with a specific little gasket; could

7 be an O ring or something from another company, but

9 the ones I said are predominant.

11 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

13 pumps at Kearny?

15 A Same as before. Could be Worthington,

17 DeLaval, could be Ingersoll-Rand. They even had some

19 British pumps made by Rolls Royce.

21 Q Made by what?

23 MR. CIFALDI: Rolls Royce.

25 A Rolls Royce, but those were like two of a

128: 1 kind, you know.

3 Q You just mentioned valves. Do you

5 believe you were exposed to asbestos from work on

7 valves?

9 A All valves had asbestos around them.

11 Q Did you also work with valves at Hudson?

13 A Yes, Hudson, Kearny, Marion, everywhere.

15 Valves were part of our job specifications.

17 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

19 valves?

21 A Thats too much now because those valves were

23 like, lets say valves that were associated with a

25 turbine. I dont know who manufactured the valves.

129: 1

2 They were tied into the turbine. Ignition valves

4 trotter valves, stock valves –

6 MR. CIFALDI: If you dont know, just say

8 you dont know.

10 A No, I never looked at the pack.

12 Q Do you recall –

14 A But they probably were Westinghouse.

16 Q The manufacturer of the turbines?

18 A Yes.

20 Q At Kearny?

22 A Kearny. GE, General Electric.

24 Q How about the generators at Kearny?

25 A GE.

130: 1

2 Q Did you work with boilers at Kearny?

4 A No.

6 Q And while you were at the Kearny station

8 collectively for that twelve to fifteen months

10 throughout your career, did you ever have occasion or

12 opportunity to see any outside contractors coming

14 into Kearny performing work?

16 A Well, when I was in Kearny I was not exposed

18 to where they deliver the stuff; it was not my

20 station, so no, but I know for a fact that the same

22 contractors that went to us did go to Kearny or

24 Marion.

131: 1 Q Did you ever have occasion or opportunity

3 to see those contractors at Kearny while you were

5 there?

7 A I dont recall that.

9 Q Did you ever have occasion or opportunity

11 to see any suppliers coming into the Kearny station

13 making deliveries?

15 A I dont recall.

17 Q Do you recall the names of any of your

19 co-workers who worked with or alongside of you at

21 Kearny?

23 A Pete Molvesi (phonetic), dead from asbestos;

24 Salvatore DeMaco (phonetic), Pete Molvesi,

132: 1 Tomatoes — you know, we used to call him Tomatoes –

3 Frankie Mursi (phonetic). Im talking about guys

5 that contracted to work in the station there. I have

7 their faces. I have a memory problem. Maybe Im

9 getting a little old. They were, let me say under.

11 They were under from different stations there and

13 some of the guys you worked with, maybe you picked up

15 his name, but I can only — its hard to remember now

17 exactly who I was working with.

19 Q I understand that was a while ago, but if

21 at any time during todays proceeding you can recall

23 a name, please feel free to volunteer that, please.

25 Did you wear a mask at Kearny?

133: 1

2 A Not all the time.

4 Q There would be occasions where you would

6 wear a mask?

8 A Probably.

10 Q And what would the conditions be that

12 would prompt you to wear a mask?

14 A Well, if you worked in an obvious dusty

16 situation you maybe had a paper mask.

18 Q Did a supervisor ever tell you to wear a

20 mask at Kearny?

22 A Not really. At that time — again, until the

23 80s it was not an enforceable thing. Then after

25 the mid 80s it started to become enforced. Up to

134: 1

2 that point you use it if you want. If you didnt use

4 it, they didnt care. You didnt know if it was bad

6 for you or not. But anyway, those masks that we used

8 at that time were paper masks, those simple paper

10 masks.

12 Q Mr. Barbosa, you also told us that you

14 would work at the Marion generating station?

16 A Yes.

18 Q In your mind, do you picture the Marion

20 station being the same as the Hudson station –

22 A No.

24 Q — or are they two different stations?

135: 1 A Marion station was a very old, obsolete

3 station.

5 Q Do you recall the first time you worked

7 at the Marion power station?

9 A Oh, maybe as soon as I moved to Hudson.

11 Q 64?

13 A 64 I believe, yeah. We used to maintain

15 Marion. Marion was part of Hudson, so we worked from

17 Hudson. If there was a problem in Marion, we would

19 have to go there.

21 Q Do you recall the last time you worked at

22 Marion?

24 A Well, Marion has been demolished –

136: 1 Q Since approximately 1990?

3 A 90 — probably up until 90, but — wait a

5 minute. Marion was deactivated a few years before

7 that. The last four or five years before that it was

9 not — it was dead. Before that, so call it the

11 middle 80s.

13 We used to go to Marion a lot because we

15 used Marion as a storage area for Hudson.

17 Q If you could add up all the time

19 collectively that you spent at the Marion station,

21 could you give us an approximate number of how much

23 time you spent there?

25 A I did not stay at Marion as much as in

137: 1

2 Kearny. Probably six months all together.

4 Q And were your job duties the same at the

6 Marion station?

8 A Same as Marion.

10 Q Do you believe you were exposed to

12 asbestos at Marion?

14 A Oh, yeah. Marion, again, was infested like

16 Kearny.

18 Q And what types?

20 A The same types: Blocks, blankets, pipe

21 covering, packing, gaskets. Same thing as all that.

23 Q Did you personally handle all those

25 products at Marion?

138: 1

2 A Absolutely, as well as in the other stations.

4 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

6 pipe covering that you were exposed to at Marion?

8 A Again, the same types as I mentioned before

10 such as Garlock, Anchor.

12 Q The pipe covering?

14 MR. CIFALDI: Pipe covering.

16 A Im sorry. Pipe covering, Johns-Manville,

18 Owens-Corning. They were predominant through the

20 company.

22 Q How about the block?

24 A Same.

139: 1 Q Same as the pipe covering?

3 A Yeah.

5 Q And the blankets?

7 A Blankets. Again, I cannot specify the

9 manufacturer.

11 Q Do you recall the –

13 A But they were widely used.

15 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

17 gaskets you used at Marion?

19 A Yes. Gaskets: Anchor, Maximillian, Garlock,

20 Alltite, Lehigh, Durabla, Flexitallic. Again, these

22 are predominant to the company.

24 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

140: 1 packing at Marion?

3 A The Garlock, Anchor, Lehigh, Durabla.

5 Q And would it also be your job to work on

7 various pieces of equipment at Marion?

9 A Yes, same at Hudson.

11 Q And what types of equipment did you work

13 on?

15 A Pumps, compressors, turbines, valves.

17 Q Did you work on boilers at Marion?

19 A No, not at Marion.

21 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

23 pumps at Marion?

25 A They probably were Worthington. Im saying

141: 1

2 this from — I dont know — the equipment there is

4 so old and so outdated that nobody looked, you know.

6 At the time, probably I was curious to look at it. I

8 dont remember now.

10 Q How about the compressors?

12 A I dont remember.

14 Q Do you know how old –

16 A They were so old, so outdated, so primitive.

18 Q Do you know the manufacturers of the

19 turbines?

21 A I think they were DeLaval.

23 Q The compressors were DeLaval?

25 A I think they were.

142: 1

2 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

4 turbines at Marion?

6 A The turbines, I believe they were GEs and

8 generators and stuff.

10 Q How about the valves?

12 A The valves, an immensity of names of valves.

14 Again, I dont recall each one. Each valve is a

16 different function and each one is done by a

18 different manufacturer, so I dont know. I dont

20 recall.

22 Q And while you were working at the PSE&G

24 facility in Marion for approximately six months

143: 1 throughout your career, did you ever have occasion or

3 opportunity to see any outside contractors coming

5 into Marion?

7 A The same contractor that supplied Hudson

9 supplied Marion.

11 Q Outside contractors?

13 A Marion and Hudson was one station. Only that

15 one was like an old-fashioned thing but was the

17 same. The stuff would come through the same

18 channels, the same storeroom.

20 MR. CIFALDI: Hes talking about

22 contractors now, not suppliers.

24 A I never seen — they never did too much work

144: 1 in Marion with the contractors, no.

3 Q While you were physically working at the

5 Marion station, did you ever see any trucks come in

7 and make deliveries to the Marion station?

9 A No, because Marion was out of the way and the

11 storeroom was at Hudson.

13 Q Okay.

15 A So if youre inside Marion, Hudson is an open

17 station, in the open air. From any place in Hudson

19 you see the perimeter around, the field of the

21 grounds, you know?

23 Marion is enclosed, so if youre working

25 there on a pump, you cant see a contractor outside,

145: 1

2 no, or a truck.

4 Q Did you wear a mask while you were at

6 Marion?

8 A After, in the later years, yes.

10 Q And why would you wear a mask?

12 A At that time because we started to be alerted

14 that asbestos was bad, you know, and we started using

16 masks.

17 Q I believe the last generating station you

19 told us about, Mr. Barbosa, was the PSE&G facility

21 Bergen generating station.

23 A Yes.

25 Q Is that in Ridgefield?

146: 1

2 A Ridgefield.

4 Q Do you recall the first time you were at

6 the facility?

8 A I was still in Essex. 19 — between 1959 and

10 64.

12 Q Did you ever work at the Bergen facility

14 after 1964?

16 A Oh, a lot of times. We used to go there

18 almost every weekend.

20 Q Almost every weekend?

22 A There were times of the year, not throughout

24 the whole year, but there were times of the year we

147: 1 go there every weekend. You know, when they build a

3 powerhouse, it takes time — it takes years to get

5 the parts out and they shut down on weekends, so I

7 used to spend hundreds of weekends in Bergen.

9 Q Do you recall the last time you were at

11 the Bergen facility?

13 A Very — right up to the end that I worked in

15 Public Service. We used to go there almost every

16 year, so up to the late 90s I was still going there.

18 Q And would your job –

20 A Not the late 90s; late 80s, late 80s.

22 Probably 88, 89 I was there, 87.

24 Q And would your job duties at the Bergen

148: 1 facility be the same as they were –

3 A Same as Hudson. They didnt change.

5 Q And do you believe that you were exposed

7 to any asbestos or asbestos-containing products at

9 the Bergen facility?

11 A Yes, I know, because Bergen was also infested

13 with –.

15 Q And what types, shapes and forms of

17 asbestos-containing products do you believe you were

19 exposed to?

21 A Same: Blocks, packing, blankets, packing,

23 gaskets, pipe covering. All the pipe was covered

25 with pipe covering sections, you know, Stik-tite.

149: 1

2 Q Okay. Mr. Barbosa, Im just going to

4 reiterate one of my instructions because I notice the

6 court reporter may be having a little difficult

8 time.

10 You have to let me ask my question

12 completely and you can answer so were not talking at

14 the same time.

15 A Okay.

17 Q It makes it very difficult for her.

19 Did you personally work with the block,

21 the blankets, the gaskets, the pipe covering and the

23 cements at the Bergen station?

25 A Yes.

150: 1

2 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

4 block at Bergen?

6 A Same as before: Johns-Manville,

8 Owens-Corning, Anchor Packing.

10 Q Were just talking about the block.

12 A Blocks, yes. Thats it.

14 Q Okay. How about the pipe covering? Same

16 as the block?

18 A Same. Might be others. These are the ones

20 that I recall.

22 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

24 blankets at Bergen?

151: 1 A No.

3 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

5 gaskets at Bergen?

7 A Yes.

9 Q What were they?

11 A The same as before: Garlock, Anchor, Durabla,

13 Lehigh, Alltite, Maximillian, Flexitallic. These

14 kinds were at all powerhouses.

16 Q I believe earlier — you just told us

18 that you were exposed to Stik-tite which was a cement

20 product at the Bergen facility.

22 Are there any other types of cements that

24 you can recall?

152: 1 A Not that I recall. Might be others. This

3 was, as I said, common, and even if there were

5 others, we call it Stik-tite, you know. Go get the

7 Stik-tite. Its a cement; you mix it.

9 Q Mr. Barbosa, am I correct to assume that

11 at the Bergen facility you worked with or around

13 various pieces of equipment as well?

15 A Same as the other station. They were all

17 mechanical pumps, turbines, compressors, valves.

19 Q Pumps, compressors –

21 A Turbines, valves, oil separators.

23 Q I dont think we — or I asked this. If

25 you can give us an estimate as to the amount of time

153: 1

2 collectively you spent at the Bergen generating

4 station. Could you do that for us?

6 A Many, many months. Many weekends throughout

8 the –

10 MR. CIFALDI: He means the total time if

12 you add it all up.

13 THE WITNESS: Total.

15 A You could say two, three years all together.

17 Q Getting back to the equipment youve

19 identified for us, pumps, compressors, turbines,

21 valves and oil separators.

23 Are there any other types or pieces of

25 equipment that you worked on at the Bergen generating

154: 1

2 station?

4 A Its possible. So much diversified, you know,

6 so many things I cannot now recall a specific. These

8 are the ones I worked on most of the time, 99 percent

10 of the time, but sometimes you had a pump that the

12 guy — the grease gun. The boss would say Fix the

14 grease gun. You know what Im saying? Pumps,

16 compressors, turbines. Thats what I worked on.

18 MR. CLARK: Unless you plan on amending

20 your complaint to bring in a grease gun

22 manufacturer, Im not going to go into that.

24 MR. CIFALDI: No, well leave it at that.

155: 1 Q Did you work on any boilers at Bergen?

3 A Yes, but not as a rule. Occasionally on

5 emergency if they needed people, I did work on the

7 boiler, yes.

9 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

11 pumps at Bergen?

12 A The same as the other ones, Worthington. They

14 were the main pumps related to the turbines and

16 boilers, and stuff.

18 Q Any others?

20 A Ingersoll-Rand was around. What was the other

22 one? DeLaval was around.

24 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

156: 1 compressors?

3 A I think they were Ingersoll-Rand, yes.

5 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

7 turbines?

9 A Westinghouse.

11 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

13 valves?

15 A No.

17 Q How about the oil separators?

19 A DeLaval, and the valves, again, were adjacent

21 or attached to the turbine and generator, so they

23 could have been — I dont know who manufactured

25 them. They were installed by Westinghouse. Im not

157: 1

2 sure if Westinghouse even manufactured them.

4 Q The valves?

6 A Yes.

8 Q Do you recall the manufacturer of the

10 boilers?

11 A Foster Wheeler.

13 Q And this is at the Bergen generating

15 station?

17 A Yes.

19 Q And while you were at the Bergen

21 generating station collectively for that two to

23 three-year period throughout your career, did you

25 ever have occasion or opportunity to see any outside

158: 1

2 contractors coming into the facility performing work

4 utilizing asbestos-containing products?

6 A Yes.

8 Q And do you recall the names of the

10 companies that would come into Bergen and do work?

12 A The same as what was in –.

14 Q What were they?

16 A John Heller.

18 Q Im talking about the companies that

20 would come in and perform work, other trades.

22 A Oh, United Engineers and Woolsulate. They

24 were residents of Bergen. They were there all the

159: 1 time.

3 Q Now, did you ever have occasion or

5 opportunity to see any trucks come in and make

7 deliveries to the Bergen facility?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And what were the names of those

12 companies?

14 A The same as I said before: John Heller, E&B

16 Mill, Harrison Supply, Raritan Supply, Industrial

18 Welding.

20 Q Do you know where John Heller & Sons is

22 located?

24 A I believe here in Newark. Im not — dont

160: 1 take my word for it. I think they have installations

3 in Newark; I dont know. All I know, they were

5 there. Every time you call them, they are there

7 right away, so theyre not too far from Hudson

9 station in Jersey City.

11 Q And while you were working at the Bergen

13 generating station, did you ever unload a truck from

15 John Heller?

17 A Its possible.

19 Q Do you have a specific recollection of

21 unloading a truck from John Heller at Bergen?

23 A Again, I was not allowed to unload trucks;

25 they have a department that takes care of that, but

161: 1

2 sometimes I was waiting for a product and we would go

4 there to meet them to speed up the job and the

6 storeroom guy would go there. He would unload the

8 truck, you understand, and hand me the stuff and I

9 walked away.

11 Q So I take it you saw a John Heller & Sons

13 truck being unloaded?

15 A Say that again.

17 Q Did you ever see a John Heller & Sons

19 truck be unloaded?

21 A Yeah, by the storeroom.

23 Q Do you know what color the truck was?

25 A I cant — I dont remember now.

162: 1

2 Q And how did you know it was a John Heller

4 truck?

6 A The letters. They were coming for us. They

8 were constantly there, you know. I cant –

10 Q Do you know whether the letters were

12 block or script?

14 A I think they were block, you know, but its

16 hard to say now. I wasnt paying attention to that,

18 but Heller to us was a way of life. They were always

20 there.

22 Q Do you know what color the letters were?

24 A No.

163: 1 Q And when you would see a John Heller

3 truck being unloaded, do you know what types of

5 products came off of it?

7 A Again, they could be mechanical, they could be

8 insulation, they could be gasket materials, they

10 would be packing, they could be tools, the asbestos

12 products such as Garlock packing and stuff like that,

14 you know, Anchor Packing. They were there, you

16 know. The –

18 Q You have a specific recollection of

20 seeing those manufacturers products coming off of a

22 John Heller truck or is this a general recollection?

24 A I seen them. At times I went there to get

164: 1 them myself, you know? We were waiting for it, but

3 it was not my job specifically to unload trucks, but

5 there were times that wed rush to the truck to get

7 the product.

9 Q Where did the John Heller & Sons trucks

11 make the deliveries at the Bergen station?

13 A Storeroom.

15 Q Where is that located?

17 A By the machine shop. If I was in a machine

19 shop, I see the truck through the door.

21 Q Were you in any way responsible for

23 ordering products from John Heller?

25 A Not in the sense of doing the actual ordering,

165: 1

2 but I requested from my supervisor to use.

4 Q You requested products from your

6 supervisor?

7 A And if I was short or something for the job, I

9 go see my supervisor and say We are short of

11 packing or short of gaskets. He would do the

13 ordering himself.

15 Q So he would make the decisions to order?

17 A Yes.

19 Q And who was that?

21 A The supervisor? There was so many, you know.

23 It could be Johnny Herman, could be Bob Salardi

25 (phonetic), it could be Dominick Cavelos (phonetic),

166: 1

2 it could be — some are dead already, you know –

4 Jack Kelly, Danny Perada (phonetic); other foremen

6 that came from other stations. I would direct to

8 them, but we came to help them on outages, you know.

10 Tex, Teixeira. God knows. Theres so many.

12 Q Did you ever see any invoices from John

14 Heller?

16 A Yes. Sometimes we had to check if — let me

18 see the invoice, you know, to make sure that our

20 product was there or was the right one.

22 Q You would sign off on an invoice?

24 A No, only as a matter of checking up sometimes

167: 1 if we had the right product.

3 Q Did you ever see any specific products on

5 an invoice or you just in general would see an

6 invoice?

8 A Yeah, I saw products. As I said, sometimes we

10 had to check if we had the right product that we

12 ordered or sometimes the product would be missing and

14 somebody said Oh, we ordered some of this. They go

16 and look at the invoice, and I looked. Must be some

18 located somewhere, you know.

20 Q Do you recall the names of any of your

22 co-workers at Bergen?

24 A Bergen.

168: 1 Q Yes.

3 A I recall all of them, but I cant tell you

5 names now. Im bad in my memory that way.

7 MR. CIFALDI: Whatever you can give, you

9 give him. Thats all.

11 A Johnny McGillski (phonetic), Harry Schomiak,

13 Cavelos, John Gilliard, John Hill. Theres a guy

15 that retired a long time ago I used to — he lives in

17 Toms River. I even know where he lives. I cant.

19 Its hard for me to recall names. But again, there

21 were — every time there was an outage, there were

23 hundreds of them there.

25 Q Did you wear a mask at Bergen?

169: 1

2 A Again, after the middle 80s, yes. Before,

4 no.

5 Q Okay. Mr. Barbosa, you told us a number

7 of different stations at which you worked at, a

9 number of different PSE&G stations that you worked at

11 throughout your career.

13 As you sit here today, can you recall any

15 other stations that you worked at?

17 A No, I didnt work on any more.

19 Q Youve also identified for us a number of

21 different types, shapes or forms of

23 asbestos-containing products that you worked either

25 with or around at the various PSE&G facilities that

170: 1

2 youve identified.

4 As you sit here today, are there any

6 another types, shapes or forms of asbestos-containing

8 products which you believe you were exposed to at

10 PSE&G which we havent already identified?

12 A See, those are the basic products. Maybe

14 there are others with different forms or shapes that

16 were not so predominant. You understand? Each piece

18 of equipment has its own, depending on the

20 manufacturer. It could have different shapes. I

22 cannot precisely tell you other than the basic with

24 what we mentioned, pipe covering, blocks –

171: 1 MR. CIFALDI: You dont have to repeat

3 them.

4 THE WITNESS: Okay.

6 MR. CIFALDI: He just wants to know if

8 theres anything else you remember. If

10 theres not, you just tell him.

12 A No.

14 Q Thank you. Youve also identified for

16 us, sir, a number of different manufacturers of the

18 aforementioned products weve already discussed.

20 As you sit here today, can you recall for

22 us the names of any other manufacturers of

24 asbestos-containing products which you believe you

172: 1 were exposed to at PSE&G throughout your career that

3 we havent already identified?

5 A I dont recall.

7 Q You also identified for us a number of

9 different pieces of equipment which you worked on or

11 around throughout your career at PSE&G.

13 As you sit here today, are there any

15 other types of equipment that you worked on or around

17 that may have exposed you to asbestos that we havent

19 already discussed?

21 A No.

23 Q And youve also identified for us various

25 manufacturers of those different pieces of equipment

173: 1

2 that you worked on or around throughout your career

3 at PSE&G.

5 As you sit here today, Mr. Barbosa, are

7 there any other manufacturers of those various pieces

9 of equipment that you believe you were exposed to

11 that we havent already identified?

13 A Might be. I dont know. I dont recall.

15 Might be others.

17 Q Do you believe you were ever exposed to

19 any types of chemicals at PSE&G?

21 A Was I exposed? Not with a profound knowledge,

23 you know.

25 Q Did you ever smell any types of chemicals

174: 1

2 at any of the PSE&G facilities you worked at?

4 A Of course.

6 Q Do you know what types of chemicals they

8 were?

10 A Oil, inibusol, solvents. You know, you cant

12 pass by without smelling some type of thing.

14 Q Did you ever smell chlorine?

16 A Chlorine, but not — chlorine is contained.

18 Maybe sometimes you have — as soon as theres a leak

20 of chlorine, they have to wash it to shut it down.

22 Q Were you ever overcome by any types of

24 fumes at PSE&G?

175: 1 A No.

2 Q Do you belong to a union?

4 A Yes.

6 Q Is that the IBEW?

8 A Yes.

10 Q What local is that?

12 A 1230.

14 Q How long were you a member of the union?

16 A As long as I work for Public Service;

18 21-and-a-half years.

20 Q So 59 up to the present?

22 A Yes. You could not work without it.

24 Q While you were a member of the union, did

176: 1 you attend union meetings?

3 A Sometimes.

5 Q At any of the union meetings that you

7 attended, was the subject of asbestos ever discussed?

9 A Yes. Towards the end in the middle 80s they

11 started to talk about it.

13 Q And what was talked about?

15 A Well, the asbestos was bad for you. We were

17 exposed to asbestos and so forth, stuff like this.

19 Q Did you ever hold any offices in the

21 union?

23 A No.

25 Q Did your union ever distribute or publish

177: 1 any periodicals or literature?

3 A No.

5 Q Were you ever a shop steward?

7 A No.

9 Q After you retired, did you have any other

11 types of jobs or did you seek any other type of

13 employment?

15 A No.

17 Q Just been enjoying retirement since 1991?

19 A I took up real estate license, but I never

21 used it — as a hobby.

23 Q While you were employed at PSE&G, did you

25 ever have any employment physicals?

178: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q And how often would you have physicals?

6 A When I felt bad, sick.

8 Q Do you recall when you first started

10 having company physicals?

12 A What do you mean, company physicals? By the

14 company?

16 Q Yes.

18 A The company never gave us company physicals –

20 Q How about the union?

22 A — other than hearing, you know, testing,

24 X-rays. They did give us — once in a blue moon they

25 used to make us take X-rays.

179: 1

2 Q Were you ever informed of the results of

4 those X-rays?

6 A No, but these were not sophisticated X-rays.

8 It was a truck that came in and –.

10 Q Mr. Barbosa, do you have any physical

12 complaints today?

14 A Yes.

16 Q What are they?

18 A Well, not today. Im gonna tell you my state,

20 you know? I cant breathe, fill up my lungs with

22 air. If I talk too much, sometimes I lose my voice.

24 I have to strain. The air comes through my throat

180: 1 which sometimes turns into spitting because, you

3 know, especially if I talk too much, if its a little

5 louder. I have my hoarse voice which I think is as a

7 result of my lungs.

9 I do tire very easily, like if I exert

11 myself. I used to walk years ago a lot. I cant no

13 longer walk for exercise. If I try to do something a

15 little more — demand more exertion, I get tired,

17 like climbing stairs. If I go dancing socially,

19 like, you know, at a party or something like that, I

21 cant ever finish the dance. I start to labor for

23 breath and my legs get weak.

24 I do have — in the wintertime

181: 1 especially — more so discomfort of the chest,

3 breathing and wheezing, you know, bronchitis. I stay

5 away from all kinds of dirt or dust, but basically

7 its like you want to breathe and you cannot fill up

9 the lungs with air. You know what Im saying? Its

11 a restriction there and the general chest

13 discomfort. If I sit still, its not so bad. If I

15 try to move around, my legs get trembled, my head

17 gets light and I feel that discomfort like –

19 Q Do you recall the first time you first

21 started noticing a shortness of breath?

23 A I would say in the late 80s or something like

25 that.

182: 1

2 Q Did you see a doctor about that?

4 A Yes, but it was a cold, you know, couldnt do

6 much about it.

8 Q And you said –

10 A And –

12 Q Im sorry. I didnt mean to interrupt

14 you.

16 A Go ahead.

18 Q Would you say the first time you started

20 noticing all those symptoms that youve just

22 discussed for us was in the late 80s?

23 A Well, if we go play soccer we lose our

25 breath. I dont mean that way. I mean climbing

183: 1

2 stairs, walking or trying to walk for exercise around

4 the block. Yes, in the 80s I started to notice.

6 Q Did you see a doctor about that?

8 A Yes.

10 Q And what were you told?

12 A I was told I had — I cannot explain in

14 medical terms, but I saw Dr. Daum and she submitted

16 me to all kinds of tests and she came up that I

18 was — I had residue of asbestos in my — whatever

20 you call it.

22 Q Do you recall when you saw Dr. Daum?

24 A 1993 maybe. I was already retired. I believe

184: 1 it was 93.

3 Q Did Dr. Daum diagnose you with an

5 asbestos-related disease?

7 A Yes.

9 Q Do you know what she told me?

11 A Well, she told me at the time Well, you got

13 it. It does not mean its gonna turn into cancer

15 tomorrow. It could turn into cancer.

17 Q Did you see any other doctors about your

19 alleged asbestos-related injuries?

21 A Yes. I saw Dr. Matthew Smith.

22 Q Dr. Matthew Smith?

24 A Matthew Smith.

185: 1 Q And when was that?

3 A This is in — maybe 95.

5 MR. CLARK: Off the record.

7 (Discussion off the record.)

9 Q You saw Dr. Smith in about 1995?

11 A Yes.

13 Q What did Dr. Smith tell you?

15 A The same thing, that I had, you know,

17 asbestos-related disease.

19 MR. CLARK: Ill request that report

21 now. Ill just put it in a letter.

23 MR. CIFALDI: Yes. Just put it in a

25 letter for me.

186: 1

2 Q Have you ever been hospitalized?

4 A Not for more than 24 hours.

6 Q Whats the name of your family doctor?

8 A Dr. John Russo.

10 Q How long has he or she been your doctor?

12 A Wait a minute. Before I saw Dr. John Russo I

14 saw Dr. Muthusamy.

16 Q And how long had Dr. Muthusamy been your

18 doctor?

20 A Oh, many years. How long I saw him?

21 Q Yes.

23 A Well, the last time I saw him, maybe a year

25 ago or something.

187: 1

2 Q And whats your current doctors name?

4 A John Russo.

6 Q And what do you see Dr. Russo for?

8 A Well, physicals. I give him my records and

10 hes been keeping a close watch on me.

12 Q Did Dr. Russo ever give you a chest

14 X-ray?

16 A Yes.

18 Q Did he ever tell you the results of that

20 X-ray?

22 A Well, not — nothing drastic.

24 Q Getting back to your visits with

188: 1 Dr. Daum. When you went to see Dr. Daum, did either

3 she or someone from her office give you or take an

5 employment history from you?

7 A Yes.

9 Q Did either she or someone from her office

11 give you a breath test?

13 A Yes.

15 Q And did she take X-rays?

17 A Yes.

19 Q And then you were informed of the results

20 of your examination from her?

22 A Yes.

24 Q How about with Dr. Smith? Did they do

189: 1 the same thing at his office as well?

3 A Yes.

5 Q Did Dr. Muthusamy ever take chest X-rays?

7 A No.

9 Q Are you currently under any treatment for

11 your asbestos-related injury?

13 A No.

15 Q I notice in your Answers to

17 Interrogatories that you saw a Dr. Hozzberg for sinus

19 surgery?

21 A Yes.

23 Q How long were you hospitalized for that?

25 A Twenty-four hours.

190: 1

2 Q Did you have a deviated septum?

4 A No, but they blame it on, again, that stuff

6 that I cant breathe throughout my career and stuff

8 and what made me do that. I was having chest

10 discomfort and it could be maybe from not breathing

12 well through the nose or by through the nose. Maybe

14 that would improve.

16 Q Were you having difficulty sleeping in or

18 around that time?

19 A I wake up too many times. Ive got to get

21 pills. I snore.

23 Q Did the sinus surgery — withdrawn.

25 A The sinus surgery?

191: 1

2 Q Theres no question pending. After you

4 had the surgery on your sinuses, was your condition

6 ever better? Was it a little better?

8 A The chest did not change. The breathing

10 through the nose got a little better where before I

12 used to breathe mostly through the mouth. Sort of

14 got better this way.

16 Q I also notice that in approximately 1989

18 you were treated for urinary problems by

20 Dr. Stokpoze. Is that the correct name, Stockpoze?

22 A Stockpole.

24 Q Has that problem corrected itself?

192: 1 A Yes.

3 Q Were you on any medications or did you

5 have surgery for that?

7 A No. I did go for a test at that time, but it

9 was negative.

11 Q What was wrong with your shoulder in

13 1989?

15 A Well, might be — again, I cant specifically

17 pinpoint a moment that I — its probably

18 occupational, you know. I used to do physical work,

20 very heavy physical work at times, and something went

22 wrong with the shoulder that lingered around for

24 months and I had to seek treatment.

193: 1 Q I also noticed from your Answers to

3 Interrogatories that you were treated for ulcers?

5 A Yes.

7 Q What year was that?

9 A Going back about eight, ten years I started to

11 have gastric discomfort and I stayed on treatments

13 with Dr. Muthusamy taking the Syntax (phonetic). He

15 went inside my stomach a couple times with the — you

17 know, the tube. I dont know what they call that.

19 Its angio-something, you know, to look at the

21 stomach. Then they came up with some sort of

23 treatment and I feel not so bad now.

25 Q You were treated with medication?

194: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q And Dr. Muthusamy also diagnosed you with

6 high cholesterol?

8 A Yes.

10 Q And you were taking medication for that?

12 A Yes.

14 Q What type of medication were you taking?

16 A Zocor.

17 Q Is that the medication we talked about

19 earlier today?

21 A Yes, yes.

23 Q And is your cholesterol level down?

25 A Yes.

195: 1

2 Q What was your cholesterol at before the

4 medication?

6 A Probably 286, 290. They said I could not be

8 more than 240, so they tried to keep it under with

10 the medicine, and they did.

12 Q And whats your cholesterol level at now?

14 A Probably 230, something like that.

16 Q Have you ever been diagnosed with heart

18 problems?

20 A No.

22 Q Do you have high blood pressure?

24 A No.

196: 1 Q Did you ever have diabetes?

3 A No.

5 Q Have you ever had any form of cancer?

7 A Not that I know of.

9 Q Aside from your mother, has anyone else

11 in your immediate family had any form of cancer?

13 A No.

15 Q Do you suffer from emphysema?

16 A Do I suffer from emphysema? I dont know what

18 the lung condition is like.

20 Q Let me rephrase that. Has any doctor

22 ever diagnosed you with emphysema?

24 A No, no.

197: 1 Q Have you ever been diagnosed with

3 bronchitis?

5 A No.

7 Q How many times have you been diagnosed

9 with bronchitis?

11 A Oh, every time — every winter I get a cold

13 and then comes the bronchitis, the sputum and stuff

15 like that, you know.

17 Q And how are you treated for your

19 bronchitis?

21 A Well, I think mostly over the counter. There

23 were times that I took prescriptions, you know.

25 Other times I just went over the counter, buy

198: 1

2 Robitussin or NyQuil or something like that.

4 Q Have you ever been diagnosed with

6 pleurisy?

8 A No.

10 Q Have you ever had pneumonia?

12 A No.

14 Q Do you suffer from any allergies?

15 A No.

17 Q Do you suffer from asthma?

19 A Well, I was not — no, I was not diagnosed

21 with asthma.

23 Q I notice from your Answers to

25 Interrogatories — and I believe you testified

199: 1

2 earlier that you broke some ribs –

4 A Yes.

6 Q — in about 1991. Is that correct?

8 A Yeah — yes, 91.

10 Q Do you know what side of your chest?

12 A Left side.

14 Q Other than your broken ribs, have you

16 ever sustained any other type of injury to your chest

18 or rib cage?

20 A No.

22 Q Have you ever been diagnosed with

24 tuberculosis?

200: 1 A No.

3 Q Have you ever been diagnosed with COPD?

5 A Whats that?

7 Q Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

9 A I was never specifically told that.

11 Q Have you ever filed a workers

13 compensation claim?

14 A Workers comp — yes.

16 Q How many workers compensation claims

18 have you filed throughout your career?

20 A Two.

22 Q And what were the ailments or the

24 injuries that –

201: 1 A One was for the ribs.

3 Q And what was the other one?

5 A And one was for asbestos.

7 Q Do you recall approximately when the

9 action for your ribs was filed?

11 A For the ribs? 91, which I probably suffered

13 in 90.

15 Q Did you have an attorney for that?

17 A Yes.

19 Q And what was the name of your attorney?

21 A Bross and someone in Newark. Bross and

23 someone else.

25 Q Is that claim currently pending or has it

202: 1

2 been resolved?

4 A No, its been resolved.

6 Q As a result of that claim, did you

8 receive a financial award?

10 A Yes.

12 Q Do you recall the amount of that award?

13 A I think it was somewhere around $12,000,

15 something like that.

17 Q Is your workers compensation claim for

19 your pulmonary injury still pending or has that been

21 resolved?

23 A Well, I never reopened the case. It was — my

25 thing was not pulmonary; it was — oh, you mean the

203: 1

2 second case.

4 Q The second case.

6 A The second case was not reopened yet.

8 Q Is it still pending or has it been

10 closed?

12 A No, it closed as a compensation case. If I

14 get worse, I could reopen, and I did not reopen.

16 Q And as a result of that claim, did you

18 receive any financial award?

20 A Yes.

22 Q Do you recall the amount of that award?

24 A Its like five, $6,000, something like that.

204: 1 Q And what were the names of your attorneys

3 in that case?

5 A George Kimmel from –

7 MR. CIFALDI: Wilentz.

9 A — Wilentz.

11 Q How would you describe your relationship

12 with your wife?

14 A With the lawyer?

16 Q With your wife.

18 A Okay.

20 Q Its okay? Do you currently have a

22 pension?

24 A Yes.

205: 1 Q Is that a union pension or PSE&G pension?

3 A PSE&G.

5 Q What is the amount of that pension?

7 A How much?

9 Q Yes.

11 A Its 700 — $1760 gross.

13 Q Per month?

15 A Yes.

17 Q Do you receive any Social Security

19 benefits?

21 A Yes.

23 Q And what is that amount?

25 A Its 950.

206: 1

2 Q Does your wife receive Social Security?

4 A Yes.

6 Q And what is that amount?

8 A Its 550.

10 Q Do you have any other sources of income?

11 J. BARBOSA – Cross

13 A Oh, a couple CDs.

15 Q Do you own your home?

17 A Yes.

19 Q Is it mortgage-free?

21 A Yes.

23 MR. CLARK: Mr. Barbosa, those are all

25 the questions that Im going to have for you.

207: 1

2 I thank you for your time.

4 Some of the other attorneys in the room

6 may wish to ask you questions.

8 You want to take a break or you want to

10 keep going?

12 MR. CIFALDI: Youre all right, right?

14 THE WITNESS: I can go.

16 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. STEWARD:

18 Q Good morning, Mr. Barbosa. My name is

20 Carleen Steward and I have a couple questions just to

22 follow up on your testimony.

24 You mentioned that you got your real

208: 1 estate license.

3 Are you currently working as a real

5 estate broker?

7 A No, I took it as a hobby. I retired; I had

9 nothing else to do, so I went to school just for my

11 own knowledge of, you know, wanting to sell a house,

12 J. BARBOSA – Cross

14 buy a house, whatever, but Im not active as a real

16 estate agent.

18 Q Do you have any intention to do that?

20 A I dont think so.

22 Q In your Answers to Interrogatories you

24 list various doctors that you treated with.

209: 1 You indicated in 1989 that you went for a

3 stress test with Dr. Gopinathan?

5 A Yes.

7 Q Do you recall the symptoms you were

9 suffering from?

11 A When was that?

13 Q In 1989.

15 A 89, yeah.

17 Q Do you recall the symptoms you were

19 suffering from which led you to go to that doctor?

21 A Was already chest discomfort, you know.

23 Q Do you recall the results of that stress

25 test?

210: 1

2 A Well, he said at the time that I was not a

4 desperate case, you know. There was some deficiency,

6 but he didnt claim it was something that I should

8 worry — to immediately worry about.

10 Q Did he prescribe any medication for you?

12 A No.

13 J. BARBOSA – Cross

15 Q Did he recommend any type of change in

17 your lifestyle such as diet or exercise?

19 A No. Diet, yes. Watch what you eat.

21 Q Did you do that?

23 A Mostly so, yes. I still do.

25 Q During the time that you worked at PSE&G

211: 1

2 did you ever do any welding?

4 A Yes.

6 Q At –

8 A Not much, but I did welding.

10 Q Was that in a particular location or at

12 all of them?

14 A All locations, but I was not a welder as a

16 profession. They do have professional welders, but

18 there are times that we need to weld something, you

20 know, to make a bracket or something that relates to

22 my specific job. At that point I would have to tack

24 weld, but I was not a welder.

212: 1 Q I understand, yes.

3 A When I see the welders, they weld eight hours

5 a day; I dont. Maybe once a week I do ten minutes

7 or five minutes of welding to make a jig, as we call

9 it, you know.

11 Q Do you know what type of welding you were

13 doing?

14 J. BARBOSA – Cross

16 A Structural welding they call it technically,

18 you know.

20 Q Did you ever do any grinding of anything?

22 A Every day.

24 Q What were you grinding?

213: 1 A Metal, gaskets, sometimes to clean the

3 gasket. It was so tight, glued to the face of where

5 the gasket was that after we scrape it to get the

7 little stuff that was glued, we had to take a

9 grinder, a wire wheel, as they call it, and flake all

11 that stuff out of it.

13 Q What did you use to do the grinding?

15 A Face mask.

17 Q No. What type of tool did you use?

19 A A grinder. Its called a grinder or a wire

21 wheel. Its rotating like the dentist, just bigger.

23 Q Like an electrical tool?

25 A Yes, like an electrical drill, so to speak.

214: 1

2 Q Did you ever do any sandblasting –

4 A Yes.

6 Q — at PSE&G?

8 A Yes.

10 Q Which facilities did you do that at?

12 A All facilities.

14 Q Could you estimate for me how often you

15 J. BARBOSA – Cross

17 would do that on a weekly basis?

19 A Not very often.

21 Q Would you do it once a week?

23 A No.

25 Q Would you do it once a month?

215: 1

2 A Once in an outage maybe one time we do it. It

4 was not my specific job.

6 Q What were you sandblasting?

8 A Could be a bushing for a stem. Sometimes you

10 have a bushing within a stem. With the heat and the

12 steam, the stem blows upscale and the bushing does

14 not go inside — the stem does not go inside the

16 bushing; its too tight, so we touch it up with

18 sandblasting, but again, its not something that

20 lasts eight hours. You understand?

22 Q Yes.

24 A Its something that is momentary like.

216: 1 Q When you did the grinding did you wear

3 any protective equipment?

5 A Well, we always had a glass face mask that we

7 call it, you know, which covered most of the face,

9 and again, after I became alerted and aware of this

11 asbestos thing, I started to use the paper mask which

13 I was told later on it did not protect you from

15 asbestos anyway.

16 J. BARBOSA – Cross

18 Q What about the sandblasting? Did you

20 wear any protective equipment when you were doing

22 that?

24 A Yeah. They had like a thing you put over your

217: 1 head and they supply air from the outside.

3 Q That would be like a respirator?

5 A Its not a respirator; its — in other words,

7 it physically keeps you away from the dust, and then

9 they shoot air inside it and the air keeps the dust

11 out.

13 Q Do you know if you ever used any silica

15 when you were at PSE&G?

17 A I dont know.

19 Q Earlier when you were testifying you were

21 trying to estimate the amount of time you were at the

23 different powerhouses.

25 Could you estimate for me how much time

218: 1

2 you were at the Marion powerhouse?

4 MS. STEWARD: He didnt testify to that,

6 Angelo.

8 A Marion, I believe I said that I did not spend

10 much time there, really.

12 MR. CIFALDI: Didnt he say six months?

14 MS. STEWARD: I didnt have that.

16 Sorry.

17 J. BARBOSA – Cross

19 MR. CIFALDI: Yes.

21 Q Okay. I believe at the time that you

23 were at the Hudson facility you indicated that you

25 recalled seeing Raritan Supply there?

219: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q What makes you recall that?

6 A The trucks.

8 Q What did their trucks look like?

10 A I dont recall now, you know.

12 Q Were they closed trucks, open trucks?

14 A They were closed trucks. Raritan Supply as

16 well as others that I mentioned, they were a common

18 thing, almost every day basically, but I cant recall

20 the color of the truck or –

22 Q I want to ask you specific questions

24 about Raritan Supply, not a general thing as to all

220: 1 suppliers.

3 Do you recall what the lettering looked

5 like on the trucks?

7 A I dont. This –

9 MR. CIFALDI: Just say no if you dont

11 recall.

13 A No, no.

15 Q Did you ever unload a Raritan Supply

17 truck?

18 J. BARBOSA – Cross

20 A Possibly — no, not possibly. I did not

22 physically unload the truck, but I could have been

24 waiting for a product coming out of the truck.

221: 1 Q The question was did you ever unload one?

3 A No.

5 Q Do you ever recall specifically ordering

7 a product from Raritan –

9 A I dont order the products.

11 Q Let me finish my question, please — from

13 Raritan Supply that you remember waiting for?

15 A I do not order the products for Raritan

17 Supply. I might have been waiting for products that

19 came from Raritan Supply.

21 Q Do you have a specific recollection of

23 ever waiting for a product to be delivered by Raritan

25 Supply?

222: 1

2 A No.

4 Q Did you ever see a Raritan Supply truck

6 unloaded?

8 A Well, situated throughout the powerhouse and

10 going towards the storeroom and going out of the

12 powerhouse in the road, going out of the gate, you

14 know, yes, it was something quite often seen by us.

16 Q Do you know what was being unloaded from

18 those trucks?

19 J. BARBOSA – Cross

21 A I knew for a fact it was insulation.

23 Q How do you know that?

25 A Because they were the suppliers. They were

223: 1

2 supplying all that.

4 Q Did you order any insulation products

6 from Raritan Supply?

8 A No, I did not order stuff. My supervisor had

10 to be the guy that did the ordering.

12 Q How did you know that they were

14 insulation products?

16 A Because they talked about Im going to call

18 Raritan Supply. We are going to get some

20 insulation, you know, but that was not my specific

22 job or anything like that.

24 Q Do you know if you ever handled the

224: 1 insulation products that you believe were supplied by

3 Raritan Supply?

5 A Well, those products that I mentioned, I did

7 handle them.

9 Q Do you know if any of those products –

11 A They were bought — I cant actually say if

13 they were from Raritan Supply, Paterson Supply. That

15 I cannot precisely say, no.

17 Q Did Raritan Supply have its own area that

19 it delivered to or was it to a general storeroom?

20 J. BARBOSA – Cross

22 A They had to report by the storeroom general

24 area and then the stuff would be stocked up in an

225: 1 insulation shanty.

3 Q So once the products were delivered by

5 Raritan Supply –

7 A They were kept –

9 Q — they were all merged together with

11 products from other suppliers?

13 A Yes, in the same shanty, the same house.

15 Q Would there be any way to differentiate

17 what was received from a particular supplier?

19 A Depending if it was blocks or pipe covering or

21 the size of the piping. If they ordered six inches

23 or four inches or three inches, they would be on

25 different shelves.

226: 1

2 Q Im not talking about differentiating

4 between the different types of products. Im saying

6 differentiating between which products were delivered

8 by each supplier.

10 A No, I dont think they put a tag on them.

12 Q Do you recall a specific time frame when

14 you first saw Raritan Supply at the Hudson station?

16 A When I first saw them?

18 Q Yes.

20 A I cant give you a date, no.

21 J. BARBOSA – Cross

23 Q Do you know the last time you saw them

25 there?

227: 1

2 A Dates I cannot give you. I saw the trucks

4 there at times, you know. I cannot say if it was in

6 February of –

8 Q Can you give me a decade?

10 A Well, in the 80s they were there. Probably

12 the 70s too.

14 Q Do you recall seeing them in the 1970s

16 and the 1980s?

18 A Yes.

20 Q Did you ever personally go to Raritan

22 Supply?

24 A No.

228: 1 Q Do you know where theyre located?

3 A No.

5 Q Do you know any of their employees?

7 A No.

9 Q Do you know any of their drivers?

11 A No.

13 Q Did you ever see any of their invoices?

15 A No. Probably. Its possible.

17 Q Was it your job responsibility to see

19 invoices?

21 A No, no.

22 J. BARBOSA – Cross

24 Q Now, you also testified that you saw

229: 1 Raritan Supply at the Bergen facility.

3 A Yes. Those trucks, they went to all the

5 stations.

7 Q Do you have a specific recollection of

9 seeing a Raritan Supply truck at the Bergen facility?

11 A I cannot tell you dates, but I see the truck

13 there.

15 Q Do you recall when you first saw them

17 there? Would it be the same time frame as you

19 indicated before?

21 A Yes.

23 Q Did you ever unload a truck at the Bergen

25 facility –

230: 1

2 A No.

4 MR. CIFALDI: Let her finish her

6 question.

8 MS. STEWARD: Thank you.

10 Q Have you ever seen one unloaded at the

12 Bergen facility, a Raritan Supply truck?

14 A Yes.

16 Q Did you see what products came off of the

18 Raritan Supply truck at the Bergen facility?

20 A Well, I knew it was insulation though.

22 Q How do you know that?

23 J. BARBOSA – Cross

25 A cause Raritan Supply supplied insulation.

231: 1

2 Q How do you know that?

4 A The boxes coming out of it, sometimes they

6 have the inscription on the outside.

8 Q Do you recall the names of any of the

10 products that were delivered by Raritan Supply?

12 A Well, they were based on what I said again,

14 you know, insulation, pipe covering.

16 Q Do you know if any

18 non-asbestos-containing products were delivered by

20 Raritan Supply to the Bergen facility?

22 A Do I know?

24 Q Yes.

232: 1 A Not really, no. I cannot specifically tell

3 you other than –

5 MR. CIFALDI: Thats fine. Thats all

7 shes saying.

9 Q Do you know if any

11 non-asbestos-containing products were delivered by

13 Raritan Supply to the Hudson facility?

15 A Its possible.

17 Q Do you recall the first time that you saw

19 Raritan Supply at the Bergen facility?

21 A Years ago. I dont know.

23 Q Do you know a decade?

24 J. BARBOSA – Cross

233: 1 A Maybe the 70s, 80s. I believe from the

3 70s.

5 MS. STEWARD: Okay. Those are all the

7 questions I have. Thank you.

9 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. CLOTT:

11 Q Good morning, Mr. Barbosa.

13 A Good morning.

15 Q My name is Jeff Clott. Im going to ask

17 you questions about Durabla Manufacturing Company.

19 I believe you said you worked with their

21 gaskets?

23 A Yes.

25 Q Can you tell me when the first time that

234: 1

2 you worked with the Durabla gasket was?

4 A Not exactly, no.

6 Q During your testimony you identified — I

8 believe at the Essex station you said as an operator

10 you didnt recall the name of any of the gaskets you

12 worked with, is that correct, as an operator?

14 MR. CIFALDI: He said –

16 A No.

18 Q And then as a machinist from 60 to 64

20 you identified working with Garlock, Maximillian and

22 Flexitallic.

24 Are those the only gaskets you worked

25 J. BARBOSA – Cross

235: 1

2 with during that period?

4 A These are the ones I recall. Might be

6 others. Im not — you know, again, sometimes a

8 company sends a product into the –

10 MR. CIFALDI: Thats fine.

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 Q Do you have a recollection of working

16 with a Durabla gasket –

18 A Yes.

20 Q — as a machinist from 1960 to 64?

22 A Yes.

24 Q You do?

236: 1 A Yeah.

3 Q So would it be fair to say that the first

5 time you saw a Durabla gasket was some time between

7 60 and 64?

9 A 60, 64?

11 Q Yes.

13 A No, maybe later.

15 Q Okay. Well, you just — that was the

17 first time. You just said that you worked with the

19 Durabla gaskets between 60 and 64.

21 A 60 and 64.

23 Q 1960?

25 A Yes, yes.

237: 1 J. BARBOSA – Cross

3 Q Do you recall the last time that you

5 worked with Durabla gaskets?

7 A Well, this thing was on the shelf. I cant

9 again specifically tell you I worked in –

11 MR. CIFALDI: So your answer would be

13 no?

15 A No.

17 Q What does that mean, it was on the shelf?

19 A We have a shelf –

21 MR. CIFALDI: See, that leads to another

23 question.

25 You have to answer yes or no unless you

238: 1

2 want to give a full explanation.

4 A No.

6 Q What does that mean, on the shelf?

8 A You know, they have all kinds of gaskets there

10 and packing on the shelf. You use one you think is

12 more suitable to the job.

14 Q And where was the shelf that youre

16 talking about?

18 A In the shop or the insulation in the storeroom

20 location there.

22 Q And there would be a shop, a storeroom at

24 each of the facilities you worked at?

239: 1 A Yes.

2 J. BARBOSA – Cross

4 Q Was there a specific type of job which

6 you used the Durabla gaskets for versus other

8 gaskets?

10 A Oh, for steam.

12 Q Did you ever personally order Durabla

14 gaskets –

16 A No.

18 Q — from the company?

20 A I did no ordering.

22 Q You never dealt with anybody at Durabla

24 Manufacturing Company?

240: 1 A No.

3 Q Can you describe for me what a Durabla

5 gasket looked like? And this is specific to Durabla,

7 not the other specific gaskets stated.

9 A Its like a sheet. I dont know the

11 composition of that.

13 Q How big was the sheet?

15 A Maybe four feet high.

17 Q How thick was it?

19 A Comes in different thicknesses.

21 Q What was the range?

23 A Probably between a thirty-two and a sixteenth

25 or three thirty-seconds, something like that.

241: 1

2 Q A sixteenth of an inch?

3 J. BARBOSA – Cross

5 A Yeah, from a sixteenth — from one

7 thirty-second up to maybe three thirty-seconds. I

9 dont know if you have a length of to one-eighth.

11 Some of them were packing, Anchor Packing and stuff.

13 They go up –

15 Q Im just talking about Durabla, only

17 Durabla.

19 A Okay.

21 Q Did the sheet have any writing on it?

23 A I believe so.

25 Q What did it say?

242: 1

2 A Durabla, I guess.

4 Q Was it script or block?

6 A What is what?

8 Q Was it writing in a script or was it

10 block, if you recall?

12 A No, on the — I believe it was on the paper

14 itself.

16 MR. CIFALDI: Hes asking is it script or

18 block? If you dont know.

20 The shape of the writing, thats what

22 hes asking.

24 A No, no.

243: 1 Q You dont know?

3 A I dont remember.

4 J. BARBOSA – Cross

6 Q Was it any particular color, the writing?

8 A I dont remember.

10 Q Were there any trademarks or logos on the

12 sheet?

14 MR. CIFALDI: Other than the name.

16 MR. CLOTT: Other than the name.

18 A I dont remember.

20 Q Were there any — did you see the

22 packaging that the sheets came in?

24 A I might have seen it at times. I dont

244: 1 remember.

3 Q How did you know that the Durabla gaskets

5 contained asbestos?

7 A I didnt.

9 Q How do you know now that they contained

11 asbestos?

13 A Because we have meetings in the union with the

15 foreman, you know. I am no technician. All the

17 stuff I used, I never knew it was asbestos, and

19 Durabla is no exception.

21 Q And you were told specifically that the

23 Durabla gaskets with which you worked contained

25 asbestos?

245: 1

2 A Its parts of it. I am no engineer. I dont

4 know.

5 J. BARBOSA – Cross

7 Q Okay. But were you told specifically

9 that a Durabla gasket contains asbestos?

11 A I assume, because its an insulator, and all

13 insulators for a long time were all basically

15 asbestos.

17 Q Did you ever work with precut or round

19 gaskets that had already been preformed?

21 A Yes.

23 Q Were those manufactured by Durabla as

25 well?

246: 1

2 A I cant precisely say that. Sometimes the

4 supervisor came with the gaskets. Could have been

6 Durabla, could have been already made, yes.

8 Q So they could have been pre-made gaskets?

10 A Its possible. Not necessarily. They have to

12 be made by somebody that came and gave them to me,

14 you know.

16 Q Did you ever have to cut the sheet

18 gaskets manufactured by Durabla?

20 A Yes.

22 Q How did you do that?

24 A With a gasket cutter which they have several

247: 1 types. They have one, its just a board with a razor

3 blade and then you have one that is a thing that you

5 tie on the end of the table and you cut around, you

6 J. BARBOSA – Cross

8 know.

10 Q When you cut it, were you on the site or

12 were you in the shop?

14 A Mostly in the shop.

16 Q Was that a dusty process when you cut

18 that?

20 A It was a dusty process. The dusty process was

22 not during the cutting. Thats when youre cleaning.

24 Q When did you clean them?

248: 1 A Every time I took the equipment apart. Before

3 we put it back together, it has to be clean and

5 thats when you –.

7 Q If you were cleaning it, would you be

9 replacing it with a new gasket or were you just

11 cleaning the existing gasket that was there?

13 A Replace the same or could replace it with

15 something else. If we took it apart, it probably was

17 bad as far as it was not sealing.

19 Q And that was what was dusty?

21 A Yes.

23 Q Not when you were cutting it?

25 A No. The dusty side, thats when you clean

249: 1

2 it. When you cut it, it does not.

4 Q When you cleaned it, were you able to

6 tell the manufacturer of the gasket?

7 J. BARBOSA – Cross

9 A No. Sometimes you knew it by heart, like, you

11 know.

13 Q Over the course of your career you

15 identified there were numerous gasket manufacturers.

17 Can you tell me if you used one gasket

19 company more than the others?

21 A Well, yes. Garlock, Anchor was more. Lehigh,

23 Maximillian, they were more used than others.

25 Q They were used more than the Durabla

250: 1

2 gaskets?

4 A Maybe.

6 Q And I dont want you to guess now, but

8 can you give me a percentage of your use of Garlock

10 and Anchor gaskets versus the others?

12 A I couldnt give you a percentage, no. See,

14 each job –

16 MR. CIFALDI: Your answer is no.

18 THE WITNESS: Oh.

20 MR. CIFALDI: Thats fine.

22 Q Can you tell me what portion of your

24 workday was devoted to using gaskets?

251: 1 A Rephrase that.

3 Q Could you tell me what percentage or

5 portion of your workday was devoted to using gaskets?

7 A Again, you cant measure that. You cant

8 J. BARBOSA – Cross

10 measure that.

12 Q Did you use gaskets on a weekly basis?

14 A Daily basis.

16 Q Daily basis? What types of equipment

18 were you working on when you had to clean or change

20 gaskets?

22 A Could be pumps, could be compressors, could be

24 flanges.

252: 1 Q Now, a flange is not equipment. Is that

3 correct?

5 A Well, the flanges lead to equipment. Every

7 piece of equipment has to have oil, gas or steam

9 going through it and leads to something else.

11 MR. CLOTT: Thats all I have for now.

13 Thank you.

15 MR. CIFALDI: Thank you. Next.

17 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YESALONIS:

19 Q Good morning. My name is Brian

21 Yesalonis. I represent one of the defendants in this

23 matter.

25 You identified Paterson Supply as a

253: 1

2 supplier of products. How do you remember that name?

4 A Paterson Supply?

6 Q Yes.

8 A From the trucks.

9 J. BARBOSA – Cross

11 Q Do you know what type of trucks they

13 were?

15 A They were trucks, delivery trucks, you know.

17 I cannot tell you the make or –.

19 Q Do you remember the coloring of the

21 trucks?

23 A I dont remember.

25 Q Do you remember any lettering from the

254: 1

2 trucks?

4 A Yes. Paterson Supply was there all the time,

6 you know. I dont remember now all the trucks that

8 came. There was thousands of trucks that came to the

10 powerhouse.

12 MR. CIFALDI: No, I dont remember.

14 A No.

16 Q Do you remember if it was in script or

18 block lettering?

20 A No.

22 Q Did you unload any Paterson Supply trucks

24 at the Hudson facility?

255: 1 A No, I never unloaded trucks.

3 Q Do you remember specifically waiting for

5 any products being unloaded from a Paterson Supply –

7 A Possibly. I dont remember specific dates,

9 but its very possible at times.

10 J. BARBOSA – Cross

12 Q Do you remember unloading any Paterson

14 Supply trucks at the Bergen facility?

16 A No. Same thing. It was not my job to unload

18 trucks.

20 Q Do you remember specifically waiting for

22 any products coming from a Paterson Supply truck?

24 A Not specifically, but its possible that I

256: 1 waited sometimes.

3 Q Did you ever see a Paterson Supply truck

5 unloaded at the Hudson facility?

7 A Yes.

9 Q And what did you see unloaded from it?

11 A Boxes, you know.

13 Q Do you know what was in those boxes?

15 A I knew insulation would come out of those

17 boxes.

19 Q Do you know if anything else was ever

21 unloaded from a Paterson Supply truck?

23 A No.

25 Q And how do you know insulation was in the

257: 1

2 boxes?

4 A It says it on the boxes, you know.

6 Q How about the Bergen facility? What did

8 you see unloaded?

10 A Same thing.

11 J. BARBOSA – Cross

13 Q And how often did you see Paterson Supply

15 trucks at the Hudson facility?

17 A I dont know. A few times a year, you know.

19 Cant tell you if its five or six or eight; that

21 would be lying to you, but they were there often.

23 Q How often at the Bergen facility did you

25 see the Paterson Supply trucks?

258: 1

2 A How often in Bergen?

4 Q Yes.

6 A See, most of my time –

8 MR. CIFALDI: Do you know?

10 THE WITNESS: No.

12 MR. CIFALDI: Then you just tell him

14 that.

16 Q Did you see any invoices with Paterson

18 Supply — from Paterson Supply?

20 A Its possible.

22 Q Well, you dont remember if you saw them?

24 A No, because I did not order the stuff.

259: 1 Q Do you know where Paterson Supply is

3 located?

5 A No.

7 Q Did you ever have to go to Paterson

9 Supply for anything?

11 A No.

12 J. BARBOSA – Cross

14 Q Do you know any employees at Paterson

16 Supply?

18 A No.

20 MR. YESALONIS: I have nothing further.

22 MR. CIFALDI: Thank you. Next.

24 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHAFFER:

260: 1 Q How you doing, sir?

3 A Okay.

5 Q My name is Dave Shaffer. I represent

7 Lehigh.

9 A Okay.

11 Q Let me ask you first, when you went to

13 Hudson in 1964 was your position as a machinist

15 before mechanic?

17 A Say that again.

19 Q You told us before that when you were at

21 Hudson you were a machinist/mechanic?

23 A Station mechanic.

25 Q Station mechanic, Im sorry. Did you

261: 1

2 start at Hudson as a station mechanic or were you a

4 machinist first?

6 A No.

8 THE WITNESS: I have to explain to him.

10 MR. CIFALDI: Yes, you could explain.

12 A At one time there were machinists,

13 J. BARBOSA – Cross

15 electricians, welders. By the time I moved to

17 Hudson, I went there already as a station mechanic.

19 The difference was before I was only a machinist, I

21 could only do machinist work.

23 As a station mechanic in Hudson which

25 opened a new chapter in the union, you know, we could

262: 1

2 do anything, so we became station

4 mechanics/electricians, station mechanics/machinists

6 or station mechanics/boiler repair. My field was

8 basically machinist/station mechanic.

10 Q Okay. And you told us that you believe

12 you used gaskets that were Lehigh that contained

14 asbestos.

16 Could you tell me all the different

18 types — describing them for me — of gaskets that

20 you think were Lehigh that had asbestos in them?

22 A No.

24 Q Can you describe for me any of the

263: 1 gaskets that you used that you think were

3 manufactured by Lehigh?

5 A Well, they were on the shelf. If we needed a

7 piece, we cut it off. We made a gasket and we used

9 it. I did not know what the hell they were made of.

11 Nobody ever told me.

13 Q Right. Thats not exactly what I was

14 J. BARBOSA – Cross

16 asking you, but thats okay.

18 What I want –

20 MR. CIFALDI: He wants to know were they

22 preformed or sheets or both or anything else?

24 Thats what hes asking you.

264: 1 Q Or anything else.

3 A I think they were mostly sheets, but again,

5 there is a difference where gaskets were already

7 made, you know, but us, most of the times, 90 percent

9 we made our own.

11 Q You made your own.

13 A From the sheet.

15 Q And could you tell me, you believe that

17 Lehigh manufactured the sheeting material, the

19 sheets?

21 A I mean they were Lehigh. I dont know who

23 manufactured them.

25 Q How do you know that these products were

265: 1

2 Lehigh?

4 A Cause they said so.

6 Q Now, you say they said so.

8 A There normally was writing on the sheets, you

10 know, or the package or something.

12 Q Okay. So let me make sure I understand

14 your testimony.

15 J. BARBOSA – Cross

17 Youre saying that Lehigh was written

19 on the sheet itself. Do you have a specific memory

21 of that?

23 A Not really, but we know they were Lehigh

25 because Lehigh, like Anchor Packing and Garlock, they

266: 1

2 were used on an everyday basis, you know.

4 Q Can you tell me, were there any

6 particular jobs where you went into the storeroom or

8 wherever it was that gaskets were kept and said I

10 want a Lehigh gasket or not?

12 A No. We just went to the shelf and cut

14 whatever we needed, you know, and the boss — the

16 supervisor told me Use Lehigh or Use Garlock or

18 Use Maximillian, and I just had to follow orders.

20 Its not up to me to choose.

22 Q Did you ever use any gaskets over the

24 course of your career that didnt contain asbestos?

267: 1 A As I was informed in the late 80s, supposedly

3 they did away with asbestos –

5 Q Okay.

7 A — which they didnt last as long, the new

9 ones that came up, so they said, but this is late,

11 you know?

13 Q Did you ever use any rubber gaskets on

15 any applications?

16 J. BARBOSA – Cross

18 A Rubber gaskets?

20 Q Rubber gaskets.

22 A Yes.

24 Q What would you use rubber gaskets for?

268: 1 A For water.

3 Q You mean waterlines or pipes or –

5 A Waterlines mostly.

7 Q Do you know who manufactured the rubber

9 gaskets that you used?

11 A I cant remember now. I have the name on my

13 tongue cause we used rubber a lot and made the

15 rubber on all the flanges, and I dont recall the

17 manufacturer, no.

19 Q Do you know if Lehigh was a manufacturer

21 of those rubber gaskets?

23 A I dont know if they made a rubber gasket.

25 Q Excuse me?

269: 1

2 A I dont know if they made a rubber gasket.

4 Q And the rubber gaskets, would you cut

6 them or would they be precut already?

8 A Most of the times we did cut them.

10 Q The rubber product, did that come in

12 sheets also?

14 A The rubber product came normally most of the

16 time in sheets, yeah, different sizes.

17 J. BARBOSA – Cross

19 Q Do you know where Lehigh is located?

21 A No.

23 Q Do you know what the full name of the

25 company is?

270: 1

2 A No.

4 Q Did you ever — you never ordered from

6 Lehigh?

8 A No, I did no ordering.

10 MR. SCHAFFER: I could probably cut off a

12 few questions for anybody else.

14 A Did you ever order any products over the

16 course of your career?

18 MR. CIFALDI: You get a prize.

20 MR. SCHAFFER: I thought youd appreciate

22 that.

24 MR. CIFALDI: See if anyone was

271: 1 listening.

3 Q Do you believe you ever ordered any

5 asbestos-containing products over the course of your

7 career?

9 A No.

11 MR. SCHAFFER: Now were clear.

13 MR. CIFALDI: For now.

15 Q Could you tell me, when was the last time

17 that you think you saw or used a Lehigh gasket that

18 J. BARBOSA – Cross

20 contained asbestos?

22 A I dont know when they stopped asbestos and

24 started non-asbestos, but probably was not until –

272: 1 you know, according to what I was told at PS — and I

3 was only a working number there — from the late

5 70s, no more asbestos in the powerhouse, you know,

7 and I dont have no engineering to tell whats

9 asbestos or not asbestos –

11 Q Okay. How about we take –

13 A — so –

15 Q Im sorry.

17 A — I dont know when exactly they stopped

19 asbestos. I couldnt tell you.

21 Q Okay. Im going to take away the

23 asbestos restriction then.

25 Could you tell me, when was the last time

273: 1

2 you saw any gaskets that you believe were made by

4 Lehigh or used these gaskets at PSE&G?

6 A All the time.

8 Q Up until your retirement?

10 A About so, yeah.

12 Q And as you sit here today, do you have a

14 specific recollection that you used Lehigh gaskets at

16 Kearny?

18 A No.

19 J. BARBOSA – Cross

21 Q And the same question at Marion now.

23 Do you have a specific recollection of

25 using Lehigh gaskets at Marion?

274: 1

2 A No.

4 Q Same rule as before, sir. You have to

6 wait until I finish my question –

8 A Yes, okay.

10 Q — otherwise shell be mad at both of

12 us.

14 And the same question with respect to

16 Bergen.

18 Do you have a specific recollection of

20 using the Lehigh gaskets at Bergen?

22 A No.

24 Q Do you know — withdrawn. The gasketing

275: 1 material generally was either kept in the shop or the

3 storeroom?

5 A Yes.

7 Q Do you know how a particular product, a

9 particular gasket product in a storeroom would have

11 gotten there?

13 A We had them basically all in the shop. When

15 we ran out, we had to go get some more from this

17 storage area and we had to do that ourselves.

19 Q If you were to pick up a Lehigh product

20 J. BARBOSA – Cross

22 or look at a Lehigh product in a storeroom, could you

24 tell from looking at it where it came from, like who

276: 1 brought it to the storeroom?

3 A Who brought it to the storeroom? The truck I

5 guess, supply truck.

7 Q Okay. Are you able to tell me when you

9 looked at the Lehigh product in the storeroom whether

11 it was X,Y,Z Company that brought the product in?

13 A No.

15 Q Did you ever see Lehigh trucks making

17 deliveries themselves to PSE&G?

19 A Did I see Lehigh trucks?

21 Q Themselves making deliveries.

23 A Im not sure.

25 Q What would you use inibusol for?

277: 1

2 A Inibusol? As a solvent to clean parts.

4 Q Like a degreaser?

6 A Yes.

8 Q And how often would you use that over the

10 course of your career? Would that be something you

12 use daily or weekly or –

14 A Not daily, but sometimes you use it, you

16 know. Not on a daily basis.

18 Q Certainly a weekly basis?

20 A Could be. One week I could use it three

21 J. BARBOSA – Cross

23 times, then maybe I dont use it at all, and then

25 maybe next week only one time, you know.

278: 1

2 Q Right. Im just looking for your best

4 average.

6 A Yes.

8 Q Where is Dr. Russos office located?

10 A West Orange.

12 Q Did he assume the practice of

14 Dr. Muthusamy?

16 A No.

18 Q Different doctor?

20 A This is a general doctor.

22 MR. SCHAFFER: Thats all I have. Thanks

24 a lot.

279: 1 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

3 MR. CIFALDI: Next.

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ZAORSKI:

7 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Barbosa.

9 A Good afternoon.

11 Q My name is John Zaorski. I have a few

13 questions for you this afternoon.

15 A Okay, John.

17 Q How do you know that United Engineers was

19 a contractor at the Hudson station?

21 A United Engineers built Hudson and they

22 J. BARBOSA – Cross

24 remained in Hudson for years. We used to work

280: 1 alongside of them, you know, not doing the jobs.

3 Just they were doing their thing and we were doing

5 ours.

7 Q Okay. What was their job?

9 A They built boilers, metal structures,

11 everything.

13 Q Built boilers. What else?

15 A Metal structures, you know. They assembled

17 equipment. They were there all the time, you know.

19 Q When do you first recall them at the

21 Hudson station?

23 A Soon as I moved in there. When I moved into

25 the Hudson station, the station was not built yet and

281: 1

2 they were still there, and they had all kinds of

4 parking trailers and everything, you know, and they

6 stayed there for a long time; for a year.

8 Q How do you know that they were United

10 Engineers employees?

12 A Cause they had trucks, they had –

14 Q What kinds of trucks did they have?

16 A I dont know. Pickup trucks. I dont know.

18 United Engineers, they were there by the hundreds.

20 Q Okay. The pickup trucks, did they have

22 any name on them or –

23 J. BARBOSA – Cross

25 A I dont remember that, but I remember the

282: 1

2 people. I knew some of them.

4 Q How can you tell they were United

6 Engineers employees? Did they wear certain clothing?

8 A No, they didnt use no clothing. I think they

10 had hats with United Engineers on it.

12 Q It had the words United Engineers

14 written on it?

16 A I dont remember if it was an abbreviation or

18 the whole thing.

20 Q Okay. When they were building the

22 boilers, metal structures, were they using asbestos

24 products?

283: 1 A Im sure they were.

3 Q How are you sure?

5 A Because at one time it was a way of life.

7 There was no other thing, you know, till they come up

9 with new products.

11 Q Do you remember them working with

13 asbestos products?

15 A Them?

17 Q Yes.

19 A How else would they insulate the pipes? It

21 was not up to me to go there and see if its asbestos

23 or not. I didnt even know about asbestos.

24 J. BARBOSA – Cross

284: 1 Q So you cannot tell me that you

3 specifically saw them working with an asbestos

5 product?

7 MR. CIFALDI: I think he said he saw them

9 insulating and he believes thats what they

11 used as asbestos.

13 A I said –

15 Q Im asking you if you specifically used

17 an asbestos product.

19 A Not specifically. I cannot make a

21 determination years later what they were using.

23 Q At that time did you believe it was

25 asbestos?

285: 1

2 A I believe it was asbestos, you know, at least

4 in some instances, you know, most of them.

6 Q In some instances. What are those

8 instances? You stated pipe covering.

10 A Well, they have different coverings there –

12 Q Okay.

14 A — for different purposes, and we knew or we

16 learned later on that all the insulation around the

18 turbines and stuff was asbestos, and the pipes and

20 lines that derived from the turbine were insulated

22 with asbestos, but I cannot specifically tell you

24 Well, I saw that guy using asbestos there. Maybe

25 J. BARBOSA – Cross

286: 1

2 he was using asbestos, maybe he was using something

4 else, but –.

6 Q Other than pipe covering, is there

8 another job that they were doing that you believe

10 they were using asbestos? Were still speaking just

12 at the Hudson station.

14 A Well, they had at one time 3,000 men there. I

16 cant go around and check what the hell they were

18 using in every specific case.

20 Q Im not –

22 A All I know is there was asbestos there,

24 asbestos was used, but I cannot pinpoint. I was not

287: 1 working with them, that Yeah, this guy was — no, I

3 cant. I cannot tell you that.

5 Q Okay. I understand that youre saying

7 there are a lot of employees there and they were

9 doing different things, okay?

11 Im not asking you to recall everything

13 they were doing. Im just asking you what you recall

15 them doing.

17 A Well, they built the boiler, they built the –

19 they put the boiler together, they mounted a lot of

21 equipment themselves. They have sections of the

23 millwrights.

25 Q When they built the boiler, do you

288: 1 J. BARBOSA – Cross

3 believe they were using asbestos products?

5 A Day I know — I believe that they were using

7 asbestos, you know. At the time, again, asbestos was

9 not considered anything, you know.

11 Q Were you at — the Hudson station were

13 speaking of — were you ever in the area while they

15 were working when they were using asbestos products?

17 A Yes. The Hudson station is open, you know, is

19 in the open. It has gratings. I could be on the

21 third floor, they could be on the first floor or the

23 other way around, so whatever they were doing I was

25 exposed to.

289: 1

2 Q Okay.

4 A It would fly around.

6 Q Is it fair to say that you would

8 generally try to avoid the employees, that you would

10 be working in maybe a different floor in order to

12 stay out of their way?

14 A Well, there are times that whatever they were

16 doing it would not justify for me to be around, but I

18 was around maybe working on something else.

20 Q Okay. Do you ever recall working on the

22 same floor as a United Engineers employee at the

24 Hudson station?

290: 1 A Yes. Those floors are the size of a football

2 J. BARBOSA – Cross

4 field, so they could be on that corner, I could be

6 here (indicating), they could be there and Im here,

8 you know?

10 MR. CIFALDI: Yes would have answered

12 that too.

14 THE WITNESS: Yes.

16 Q Do you ever recall working within 500

18 feet of a United Engineers employee?

20 A Yes.

22 Q How often would that be that youd be

24 working that close to a United Engineers employee?

291: 1 A Every time they were there I probably was

3 within 500 feet.

5 Q What would you be doing that you were

7 within 500 feet of them?

9 A Well, I could be working on a pump, I could be

11 working on some sort of a line, I could be working on

13 a pulverizer, I could be working on a — the dust

15 system. I could be working anywhere. I could be

17 working on a conveyor, I could be working on a coal

19 feeder, and everything is outside. Its only

21 separated by gratings.

23 Q When you were working around United

25 Engineers employees, would you be wearing a mask or a

292: 1

2 respirator?

3 J. BARBOSA – Cross

5 A Oh, not necessarily. Sometimes, yes, but,

7 again, lets say if it was a cloud of dust coming

9 over and I would work under them, I would have a

11 paper mask at the time, you know, but I didnt use it

13 because it was asbestos. I didnt know it was

15 asbestos. I used it because it was dirty, you know.

17 Q How about a respirator?

19 A The respirator, it didnt come until later

21 when we were told to use them.

23 Q After you were told to use them, would

25 you use them when you were around United Engineers

293: 1

2 employees?

4 Just to remind you, let me finish because

6 it makes it really hard for her.

8 A Go ahead.

10 Q After you were told to use a respirator

12 when you were around United Engineers employees,

14 would you utilize a respirator?

16 A The United Engineers disappeared from the map;

18 I dont know when, and after awhile, there was no

20 more engineers on the property. You understand

22 that?

24 Q Yes.

294: 1 A Now, in the middle 80s we were formally

3 informed and instructed about asbestos, and from that

4 J. BARBOSA – Cross

6 time on we were — it was mandatory that if you

8 worked with asbestos you had to use a mask of some

10 type. Before that, you know, it was not enforced.

12 Then if you used a mask, it would be a paper mask.

14 Q How about this? When was the last time

16 in your career you remember seeing United Engineers

18 employees at the PSE&G plant?

20 A Oh, I dont know. Maybe — in Hudson, maybe

22 the last ten years I didnt see them or recall to see

24 them. Not on a massive job of construction, but I

295: 1 understand they were in other parts that could be –

3 Q Okay. When is last time you specifically

5 recall working or seeing United Engineers employees

7 out of the PSE&G plant using asbestos products?

9 A I dont recall that.

11 Q Was it in the 70s?

13 A Probably so, and before in the 70s.

15 MR. CIFALDI: No, hes saying the last

17 time.

19 Q The last time.

21 A Probably the 70s. The late 70s or something

23 like that.

25 Q Okay. Now, when you were at the Kearny

296: 1

2 station you dont recall seeing United Engineers

4 employees. Isnt that correct?

5 J. BARBOSA – Cross

7 A I believe that they were there. I dont

9 recall precisely that they were there on a specific

11 job, but in the Kearny station I worked mostly in –

13 the turbine and the boilers is outdoors, so they

15 could have been working on the boiler away from me.

17 Q Okay. I dont want to know what they

19 could have been doing. I want to know what you

21 specifically recall.

23 A I dont recall in the Kearny station a

25 specific job that I saw them working there.

297: 1

2 Q Okay. Do you –

4 A But Im sure they were there.

6 Q Okay. How are you sure that they were

8 there?

10 A Cause they used — for years and years they

12 did all the major work for Public Service.

14 Q Okay. How about this? Did you ever see

16 United Engineers employees at the Kearny station?

18 A Again, I cant recall specifically in the

20 Kearny station.

22 Q So were you not exposed to any United

24 Enginners employees at the Kearny station?

298: 1 A I dont think so.

3 Q Earlier you testified when we were

5 discussing contractors at the Kearny station you

6 J. BARBOSA – Cross

8 stated Same as before. Is that a mistake now?

10 A I dont understand that one.

12 Q Earlier in your testimony this morning

14 when you were asked about contractors at the Kearny

16 station you initially stated Same as before, I

18 assume indicating that you meant the same contractors

20 as you mentioned earlier.

22 Was that a mistake when you stated that?

24 A Wait a minute. If I understood your question

299: 1 correctly — I dont recall when I said The same as

3 before.

5 What I said is these guys, they have a

7 contract with Public Service.

9 Going back to the previous question, I

11 dont recall to see them in the Kearny station –

13 Q Okay.

15 A — because they were two separate buildings.

17 Where they worked, I couldnt be next to them. In

19 Bergen and Hudson I was next to them because old

21 stations are open to the air, separated by gratings,

23 where in Kearny, they are indoors, so if the United

25 Engineers were there, they were working on the boiler

300: 1

2 or the precipitators or something like that. I was

4 working indoors on the turbine, so in good faith, Im

6 saying to you I dont recall to work alongside them

7 J. BARBOSA – Cross

9 in Kearny.

11 Q Okay. Is it fair to say that if they

13 were at Kearny that you were never working in the

15 same building as them? Is that fair to say?

17 A No. Its possible.

19 Q That you recall, that you recall.

21 A Its possible — that I recall, yes. No.

23 Q And same at the Marion station. You

25 dont specifically recall seeing them, correct?

301: 1

2 A No, I dont specifically recall seeing United

4 Engineers contractors at Marion.

6 Q Okay. How about at Bergen?

8 A Yes, they were there also, many times.

10 Q When were they first there at Bergen?

12 A Oh, all the time there was United Engineers

14 around at the major outages.

16 Q When was the last time you saw them at

18 the Bergen station?

20 A That I said before, I cannot precisely tell

22 you because they became — they dissolved the company

24 at a certain point in time; I believe it was in the

302: 1 early 80s, late 70s, something like that. There

3 was no more United Engineers that I know of or if

5 they were there, they were under a different name,

7 whatever, you know.

8 J. BARBOSA – Cross

10 Q What types of jobs were United Engineers

12 employees doing at the Bergen station?

14 A Same as Hudson. They could work in the

16 precipitators, insulation, metal structuring,

18 millwrights. Theyre installing equipment, building

20 boilers, welding tubes. You know, they could be

22 doing anything, but that was always a major job.

24 When they came, it was a major job.

303: 1 Q Okay. What types of jobs do you remember

3 them specifically doing? Youre saying they could

5 have been doing these general things.

7 Do you remember them doing a specific job

9 at the Bergen station?

11 A Well, it was mostly construction.

13 Q Okay. What type of construction –

15 A Erecting construction, whatever. It could be

17 precipitators, it could be some major structure, you

19 know, it was done by them. We did a repair; they did

21 building.

23 Q Now, when you were at Bergen, were you

25 working in the same building as them?

304: 1

2 A Bergen is half indoors, half outdoors. I

4 worked in both sides, outdoors and indoors, depending

6 on the equipment.

8 Q How many times do you recall at Bergen

9 J. BARBOSA – Cross

11 working in the same building as United Engineers

13 employees?

15 MR. CIFALDI: If you could even

17 estimate. If you cant estimate, tell him you

19 cant.

21 A Several. Thats all I can tell you. I

23 cannot.

25 Q Okay. When we discussed all these plants

305: 1

2 your basic testimony is that you stated they were

4 there all the time?

6 A I didnt say all the time. I said they were

8 there as almost a way of life. A lot — they spent a

10 lot of time in Hudson and Bergen.

12 Q Okay.

14 A Not all the time, not twelve months a year.

16 They went there for a major job erecting something,

18 doing major work and they left.

20 Q Okay.

22 A They were there all the time when I first

24 moved to Hudson.

306: 1 Q Okay.

3 A Lets make that clear –

5 Q Okay.

7 A — because they were still building Hudson and

9 Hudson did not finish — they did not finish for the

10 J. BARBOSA – Cross

12 next couple of years. It was already running and

14 they still were building, so thats what I mean.

16 Q How about this? At the Bergen station

18 you stated that the total time you were there is

20 approximately two to three years?

22 A In Bergen, yes.

24 Q Out of those two to three years, how much

307: 1 time do you think United Engineers employees were

3 there that you specifically remember them being

5 there?

7 A They were there in every major outage. All

9 those powerhouses, they have an outage that lasts two

11 months, three months, four months. Bergen as well as

13 Hudson, those United Engineers would go there and

15 stay there as long as we stayed.

17 If I stayed there three months in an

19 outage, they would stay there three months in an

21 outage. If the outage lasted six months — which

23 there were cases where the outage lasted six

25 months — they would be there too. They were the

308: 1

2 main builder for Public Service.

4 Q Can you approximate for me how long out

6 of the two to three years that you were at the Bergen

8 station United Engineers employees were there also?

10 A They probably were there most of the time.

11 J. BARBOSA – Cross

13 Seventy-five percent of the time at least because

15 some outages were small, some outages did not –

17 MR. CIFALDI: Thats good. You gave him

19 an answer. You dont have to –

21 A Yes.

23 Q So youre saying they were there whenever

25 there were outages?

309: 1

2 MR. CIFALDI: Yes, thats what he said

4 for the last five answers.

6 A Most of the time.

8 MR. ZAORSKI: Excuse me?

10 MR. CIFALDI: Hes answered the question

12 Most of the time.

14 Let me put something on the record here;

16 I mean were going back and forth.

18 As Im sure youre aware, depositions in

20 the PSE&G cases have been taken as long as

22 Ive been with the firm, which is fourteen

24 years.

310: 1 Your company knows exactly what they did

3 at the plant, they know exactly how long

5 theyve been there. Theres records, theres

7 testimony of about a hundred people.

9 Look, Im not here to complain if you ask

11 a few questions, but were not reinventing the

12 J. BARBOSA – Cross

14 wheel. The wheel has been retreaded and

16 retreaded and has gone flat about 600 times

18 already; I mean come on. Lets go.

20 MR. ZAORSKI: Okay. I would just like to

22 get on the record that perhaps weve gone

24 through where United Engineers employees have

311: 1 been.

3 Im trying to find out if this plaintiff

5 has specific exposure to my client. I dont

7 think that every time United Engineers

9 employees were at any PSE&G plant that this

11 plaintiff was exposed to that. Okay?

13 And what a deposition is for is to find

15 out and weed out this plaintiffs exact

17 exposure to my client, not every other PSE&G

19 employee.

21 MR. CIFALDI: Im well aware of what the

23 function of a deposition is –

25 MR. ZAORSKI: Okay.

312: 1

2 MR. CIFALDI: — and Im well aware of

4 the hole that youre digging here for your

6 client.

8 MR. ZAORSKI: And also Id like to get on

10 the record that if youd like to object to

12 form, thats fine.

13 J. BARBOSA – Cross

15 I would just ask that you refrain from

17 answering for your client. Youve done it a

19 number of times today.

21 If you have an objection, please just say

23 Objection, but do not answer for your

25 client.

313: 1

2 MR. CIFALDI: I think Ive been very well

4 behaved here today, if I do say so myself.

6 MR. ZAORSKI: I didnt say that you

8 werent other than that, other than answering

10 for your client.

12 Q Okay. You also mentioned a contractor by

14 the name of Woolsulate.

16 A Yeah.

18 Q Do you remember what Woolsulate — well,

20 first of all, how do you know that they were

22 Woolsulate employees?

24 A Because I saw the trucks. They were working

314: 1 there sometimes.

3 Q What kinds of trucks did you see?

5 A Trucks. I dont know. I cannot — I didnt

7 take no pictures for the truck –

9 MR. CIFALDI: I dont know.

11 A I dont know.

13 Q Did you see anything else other than

14 J. BARBOSA – Cross

16 trucks that you thought were owned by Woolsulate?

18 A No.

20 Q Did you see a name on any trucks that

22 said Woolsulate?

24 A Yeah.

315: 1 Q How was that print? Do you remember?

3 A No.

5 Q Do you remember the color of the trucks?

7 A No.

9 Q When you were at the Hudson station, do

11 you recall what Woolsulate was doing at the Hudson

13 station?

15 A Insulation.

17 Q What were they doing, insulation?

19 A Outages, major jobs that insulators did.

21 Sometimes if it was a minor thing a co-worker would

23 finish the job, but if it was a major job, they would

25 call Woolsulate.

316: 1

2 Q What would those employees do during

4 outages?

6 A Our employees?

8 Q What was that?

10 A Say that again.

12 MR. CIFALDI: The Woolsulate employees,

14 what did they do?

15 J. BARBOSA – Cross

17 Q Woolsulate employees.

19 A Insulation.

21 Q Okay. Would they do anything other than

23 insulation during outages?

25 A I only recall them as insulators, you know.

317: 1

2 Q Okay. Do you recall when they were at

4 the Hudson station?

6 A Major outages again.

8 Q When did you have major outages at the

10 Hudson station?

12 A When?

14 Q Yes.

16 A Well, major outages, there was always an

18 annual outage and sometimes a small outage, and due

20 to the circumstances, it could turn into a major

22 outage because we thought something was wrong and

24 there was something else that was wrong.

318: 1 So an outage that was scheduled to take

3 two weeks sometimes would take three months, so there

5 were outages of six months, there were outages that

7 were one year, there were outages that were fifteen

9 days, one week, one weekend.

11 Throughout my career there was all kinds

13 of outages, but there was always one annual outage

15 that would last a substantial amount of time,

16 J. BARBOSA – Cross

18 possibly months.

20 Q Do you recall Woolsulate employees there

22 every time there was an outage at the Hudson plant?

24 A I cant say that they were there every outage,

319: 1 no, I cant say that.

3 Q Is it fair to say that you dont have a

5 specific recollection of when they were there other

7 than outages?

9 A No, but they could have been. Sometimes. You

11 know, Hudson station is the size of a city.

13 Q Okay. Just what you specifically

15 recall.

17 A No, I dont recall.

19 Q When was the first time you saw them at

21 the Hudson station, Woolsulate employees?

23 A I dont remember the first time.

25 Q When was the last time you saw them?

320: 1

2 A They were there often. Mostly on the first

4 ten, twelve years maybe when Hudson was getting

6 through the process of being built and finished and,

8 you know, alterations were made. Towards the end,

10 the last ten years, I didnt see them so often

12 anyway.

14 Q Okay. So after the first ten, twelve

16 years you didnt see them often?

17 J. BARBOSA – Cross

19 A Well, not as in the beginning, you know. If

21 you divide the 30 years — the 25 years, the first

23 fifteen years they were there more often than during

25 the last ten years.

321: 1

2 Q Okay. You still havent answered my

4 question.

6 When was the last time you saw Woolsulate

8 employees –

10 A I dont know.

12 Q — at Hudson?

14 A I dont know.

16 MR. CIFALDI: Now you answered it.

18 Q Was it in the 70s?

20 A 70s. Could be late 70s, you know.

22 Q How about at the Bergen station? Do you

24 recall what type of jobs Woolsulate –

322: 1 A Same as Hudson.

3 Q Can you approximate the time that

5 Woolsulate was there for the two to three years that

7 you were at the Bergen station?

9 A Again, they were there in major outages. They

11 were not there just to do a little pipe, you know,

13 six feet long. There had to be some sort of big job.

15 Q How many major outages do you recall at

17 Bergen?

18 J. BARBOSA – Cross

20 A In Bergen?

22 Q Yes.

24 A One — again, annual — one or two cause they

323: 1 have two units.

3 Q When you were there? When you were at

5 Bergen?

7 A Could be two outages in one year, four outages

9 in one year, one annual major all the time for each

11 unit. Several minutes.

13 Q When you were at Bergen, did you work

15 near the Woolsulate employees?

17 A Possibly.

19 Q Do you recall ever working near

21 Woolsulate employee while you were at the Bergen

23 station?

25 Not if its possible. I dont want you

324: 1

2 to guess. Do you specifically recall?

4 A Again, as I said before, Bergen is an open

6 station.

8 Q Okay.

10 A I could be here (indicating), they could be

12 there. Im not aware that they are there, but they

14 could have been there and they probably were at

16 times, but I was not going around saying Are they

18 there? Are they not there? You know.

19 J. BARBOSA – Cross

21 Q I dont want to know if they could have

23 been there or if they couldnt have been there. I

25 just want to know what you specifically recall.

325: 1

2 A No, I cannot remember to say that they were

4 there working by me.

6 Q Is it fair to say that you cannot give me

8 a specific instance at Bergen where you recall

10 working near Woolsulate employees? Is that fair to

12 say?

14 A Not within 20 feet, but they could have been

16 100 feet away and I wasnt aware of them.

18 Q Youre saying They could have been

20 again. Im asking what you specifically recall.

22 A They were there all the time or many times,

24 and I dont recall to be working next to one, no.

326: 1 Q How about at Hudson? Same thing.

3 A Same way.

5 Q Okay. So is it fair to say that you

7 dont specifically recall working near a Woolsulate

9 employee at Hudson?

11 A I cannot give you a specific date or anything

13 like that.

15 MR. CIFALDI: He doesnt want you to

17 give — even if you just recall.

19 He doesnt need to know the specific

20 J. BARBOSA – Cross

22 dates.

24 A Yes, sometimes they were there. They would

327: 1 say Those are the Woolsulate guys working there,

3 but I mean it was not my job to go around — you

5 know, I was not putting it down on a piece of paper,

7 you know.

9 MR. ZAORSKI: Thats all I have. Thank

11 you.

13 MR. CIFALDI: Thank you. Next.

15 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. CURTIS:

17 Q Sir, my name is Mark Curtis. I represent

19 Robert A. Keasbey Company.

21 Are you familiar with that companys

23 name?

25 A Say that again.

328: 1

2 Q Robert A. Keasbey Company.

4 A Yeah.

6 Q Are you familiar with that companys

8 name?

10 A Well, I seen them too. I seen their trucks

12 around.

14 Q Where, sir?

16 A In the powerhouse.

18 Q Which powerhouse?

20 A Hudson.

21 J. BARBOSA – Cross

23 Q And when was the last time you saw –

25 A Say that again.

329: 1

2 Q — the name of the company, sir?

4 A Yeah.

6 Q Robert A. Keasbey Company.

8 A A. Keys?

10 Q Robert is the first name –

12 A Yes.

14 Q — and A is the middle initial; Keasbey

16 is the last name.

18 A Yes.

20 Q Are you familiar with that companys

22 name, sir?

24 A No.

330: 1 MR. CURTIS: Thats all I have. Thank

3 you, sir.

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. BECKMAN:

7 Q Hi. My name is Lisa Beckman.

9 MR. CIFALDI: Theres a lot of tags

11 there. I hope youre not going to go over all

13 of those.

15 MS. BECKMAN: I wish it was as easy as

17 his, but its not.

19 Q My name is Lisa Beckman and I represent

21 one of the defendants in this matter, and Im going

22 J. BARBOSA – Cross

24 to ask you a couple questins.

331: 1 First, is there anybody else other than

3 those you have already mentioned that are financially

5 dependent upon you today?

7 A If there is any more?

9 Q Right, anybody else.

11 A No.

13 Q Okay. And in regard to exercise, do you

15 do any form of physical exercise today?

17 A No.

19 Q None whatsoever?

21 A No.

23 Q Have you ever done any form of exercise?

25 A I used to before the 90s, you know. In the

332: 1

2 80s I still used to exercise, you know, walk around

4 the block, ride the bike. Today I get tired very

6 easily.

8 I used to swim and — today I dont do it

10 because I get — I lose the air like. I start to

12 labor for air and Im afraid, you know.

14 Q And before the final time that you quit

16 smoking, had you tried to quit on prior occasions?

18 A I was never a heavy smoker. In the past when

20 I was young and I could smoke, nothing would happen

22 like, you know?

23 J. BARBOSA – Cross

25 MR. CIFALDI: Did you hear her question?

333: 1

2 You just need to answer her question.

4 Did you ever try to quit before? Thats

6 what she asked.

8 Q So the first time you tried to quit,

10 thats when you quit for good?

12 A Yes.

14 Q Why did you quit smoking?

16 A Because I was feeling chest discomfort.

18 Q And have you had a cigarette since you

20 finally quit?

22 A No.

24 Q And you said that at the Essex plant from

334: 1 1959 to 1964 you possibly could have seen an

3 Owens-Corning product.

5 My question to you is do you ever

7 remember specifically seeing an Owens-Corning product

9 at Essex from 1959 to 1964?

11 A Yes.

13 Q Earlier you testified that you werent

15 sure. What has changed your mind?

17 A Owens-Corning, Im not saying that I saw them

19 in Essex. Im not sure.

21 Q Thats my question.

23 A Maybe I seen them in Kearny, maybe I see them

24 J. BARBOSA – Cross

335: 1 in Hudson.

3 Q No, I need to know if you specifically

5 remember seeing an Owens-Corning product at the Essex

7 plant from 1959 to 1964.

9 A Maybe not, no.

11 Q No? Okay. And can you please spell

13 Owens-Corning for me?

15 A Haynes-Corning (phonetic)?

17 MR. CIFALDI: Owens-Corning.

19 A O-w-e-n-s –

21 Q Okay. And do you know –

23 A — C-o-r-n-i-n-g, something like that.

25 Q Okay.

336: 1

2 MR. CIFALDI: Youve advanced to the

4 finals of the National Spelling Bee.

6 Q And in 1964 you testified that you saw an

8 Owens-Corning product at the Hudson plant. Is that

10 correct?

12 A Yes. The Hudson plant was more where I spent

14 most of my time more associated — where those

16 products –

18 MR. CIFALDI: Yes.

20 A Yes.

22 Q And you specifically remember seeing an

24 Owens-Corning product at that plant?

25 J. BARBOSA – Cross

337: 1

2 A Specifically?

4 Q Specifically.

6 A With a date, no.

8 MR. CIFALDI: No.

10 Q No, okay.

12 MR. CIFALDI: Im going to object. When

14 she says specifically, it doesnt mean the

16 date. She just says Do you remember?

18 I specifically remember screaming at

20 someone at a deposition. I cant tell you the

22 date, but I know I did that. Thats what

24 shes asking.

338: 1 A Dates, no.

3 Q Okay. Let me go back. You specifically

5 recall seeing an Owens-Corning product at the Hudson

7 plant?

9 A Yes.

11 Q And do you remember the date

13 specifically?

15 A No.

17 Q Could it possibly have been that you

19 first saw an Owens-Corning product in 1975?

21 A Could it be possible that I saw it in 1975?

23 MR. CIFALDI: No, the first time in 75.

25 Q The first time that you saw an

339: 1 J. BARBOSA – Cross

3 Owens-Corning product.

5 MR. CIFALDI: Shes saying that you

7 never, ever saw it in the 60s.

9 A I couldnt tell you when, but the name is

11 familiar. I saw boxes.

13 Q But youre not sure as to the year when

15 you first saw an Owens-Corning product?

17 A No, no.

19 Q Okay. And can you please describe what

21 the box looked like of an Owens-Corning product?

23 A No.

25 MR. CIFALDI: Are we talking about the

340: 1

2 pipe covering or the block?

4 MS. BECKMAN: Either/or. Any

6 Owens-Corning product.

8 A I dont remember now what the boxes looked

10 like. Those boxes used to be long boxes of pipe

12 covering.

14 Q You know what? My question was

16 confusing. Let me go back.

18 In regards to Owens-Corning pipe

20 covering, can you describe the color of the box?

22 A No.

24 Q Can you describe –

341: 1 A Probably cardboard boxes. Thats how the

2 J. BARBOSA – Cross

4 insulation came in.

6 Q Cardboard?

8 A Yeah.

10 Q Do you remember, was there any writing on

12 the box?

14 A Had to be.

16 Q But do you specifically remember –

18 A Yes.

20 Q — seeing any writing?

22 A The name is familiar to me from seeing the

24 name on the box, but I dont remember now what the

342: 1 color of the letters were and something like that.

3 Q Okay. You dont remember what color the

5 letters were on the box?

7 A No.

9 Q Do you remember what form the writing

11 was? Was it in block letters or was it in script?

13 A No, I dont remember that.

15 Q Do you remember, was there any writing on

17 the box?

19 A Probably was.

21 Q No, Im asking do you specifically

23 remember?

25 A Yes.

343: 1

2 Q There was writing?

3 J. BARBOSA – Cross

5 A I saw an O.

7 MR. CIFALDI: Shes not talking about the

9 name now.

11 Shes established that you said the

13 name. She wants to know if theres any other

15 writing on the box other than the name.

17 Thats what shes asking.

19 A I dont recall it.

21 Q Okay. And do you ever remember — strike

23 that.

25 Do you recall having ever seen the word

344: 1

2 asbestos written on an Owens-Corning box?

4 A No.

6 Q And did you ever personally open an

8 Owens-Corning box?

10 A No.

12 Q And do you remember the last time that

14 you saw an Owens-Corning asbestos-containing product?

16 A No, because I dont know — no.

18 Q Do you recall, did the boxes of

20 Owens-Corning products change in appearance over

22 time?

24 A No.

345: 1 Q In regards to Owens-Corning pipe fitting,

3 do you remember what it looked like?

4 J. BARBOSA – Cross

6 A Well, pipe covering is — they are tubes slit

8 in half, you know.

10 Q And do you remember the size of the

12 tubes?

14 A They come in whatever — they come in all

16 kinds of sizes, you know. Depends on the job, you

18 know. I didnt order that, so I dont remember the

20 exact sizes, you know.

22 Q And thats what youre considering

24 Owens-Corning pipe covering. It was a tube and it

346: 1 was slit in half?

3 A Yes.

5 Q And do you remember the color of it?

7 A No. Probably it was white.

9 Q It was white?

11 A White or gray or something, not red or blue.

13 Q Okay. And do you remember — can you

15 please describe for me Owens-Corning block?

17 A Well, if I recall right, a block is block, you

19 know? We had to cut them, you know, to size.

21 Q If you could just tell me, what size was

23 the block?

25 A Oh, I dont know. You see, the blocks are

347: 1

2 made — depends on the size of the pipe. You

4 understand?

5 J. BARBOSA – Cross

7 Q Okay.

9 A They could be two inches wide to put around

11 the pipe, they could be made in two halves, you know.

13 Q Lets take a different avenue. What

15 color was the block?

17 A I believe it was whitish, you know.

19 Q Okay. What was the texture?

21 A Well, it was something like — how could I

23 compare that? You know what asbestos was like? The

25 texture was asbestos, you know? It was like chalky.

348: 1

2 Q It was chalky? Okay.

4 A Chalky solid, not chalky powder.

6 Q So your testimony is a block is a block.

8 So I guess you couldnt distinguish one block from

10 another. Is that correct?

12 MR. CIFALDI: Outside a box.

14 A You could distinguish by the size. Some sizes

16 are different than others.

18 Q Could you distinguish one product from

20 another?

22 A You mean different makes?

24 Q Yes.

349: 1 A From the box.

3 Q Outside of the box could you distinguish

5 one product from another?

6 J. BARBOSA – Cross

8 A I was not an expert of that, no, so I could

10 not distinguish that.

12 Q Is your answer No?

14 A I could only distinguish from the box. No.

16 Q So you couldnt –

18 A If the box is here with your product, you have

20 to ask it.

22 Q I have to ask the questions. Ready?

24 A Outside.

350: 1 Q If you saw products and they were outside

3 the box, could you distinguish one product from

5 another?

7 A No.

9 Q Okay, good. And as far as unions go, did

11 you ever attend a union meeting where a doctor was

13 present?

15 A No.

17 Q Did you ever attend a union meeting where

19 a lawyer was present?

21 A No.

23 Q And in regards to safety meetings, did

25 PSE&G ever hold safety meetings?

351: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q And how frequently did they hold them?

6 A Sometimes once a week, sometimes every couple

7 J. BARBOSA – Cross

9 weeks. Depends on, you know –

11 Q And was asbestos ever discussed at those

13 safety meetings?

15 A Yes.

17 Q And when was the first time that asbestos

19 was discussed at those meetings?

21 A In the middle to late 80s. Thats when the

23 big bomb fell.

25 Q Middle to late 80s?

352: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q And what did they tell you in regards to

6 asbestos?

8 A Well, at that time they told me it was

10 dangerous, to protect myself. You know, it was my

12 own lungs.

14 Q And did they tell you to wear a mask or

16 respirator?

18 A Yes.

20 Q Okay. And after you found out that

22 asbestos was hazardous, was there ever a time

24 following that where you still had to be in contact

353: 1 with asbestos?

3 A Yes.

5 Q In regards to medical insurance, do you

7 presently have any?

8 J. BARBOSA – Cross

10 A Yes.

12 Q And what kind of insurance do you have?

14 A United Healthcare.

16 Q Im sorry. United –

18 A Healthcare.

20 Q And for how long have you had United

22 Health Care?

24 A Long time. Years.

354: 1 Q Years?

3 A They used to be Met Health Care.

5 Q They used to be Met Life?

7 A Now they changed over to United Health Care.

9 As far as I know, its the same company.

11 Q And do you know, do they pay for your

13 annual doctors visits?

15 MR. CIFALDI: Objection. That goes to

17 collateral source. Dont answer that.

19 MS. BECKMAN: Youre directing him not to

21 answer?

23 MR. CIFALDI: Yes, I am, because thats

25 not discoverable evidence.

355: 1

2 Whether he has insurance and what he pays

4 for has no bearing on this litigation.

6 MS. BECKMAN: Of course it does.

8 MR. CIFALDI: Not in New Jersey.

9 J. BARBOSA – Cross

11 MS. BECKMAN: Okay.

13 Q Did you ever — throughout your career at

15 PSE&G, did you ever read an Owens-Corning brochure?

17 A No.

19 Q Did you ever meet with an Owens-Corning

21 field person or representative?

23 A No.

25 Q And as far as your home goes, do you do

356: 1

2 repairs around the house?

4 A No, not — maybe a screw, a lock.

6 Q If a picture falls down, would you fix

8 it?

10 A A what?

12 Q If a painting falls down, would you hang

14 it back up?

16 A No, no. I got a new home. The paint, dont

18 nail (sic).

20 Q Do you take the trash out?

22 A Sometimes, if its not too heavy.

24 Q Aside from the doctors that youve

357: 1 already mentioned, Dr. Daum, Dr. Smith, have you been

3 to any other doctors regarding your claim for an

5 asbestos-related condition?

7 A No.

9 Q And who was the first doctor that you saw

10 J. BARBOSA – Cross

12 in regards to your asbestos-related condition?

14 A Daum.

16 Q Dr. Daum? And who referred you to

18 Dr. Daum?

20 A The union.

22 Q The union? Okay. And when was that?

24 A All my co-workers were going there.

358: 1 Q All your co-workers were going so you

3 decided that you ought to go to pursue this as well.

5 Is that correct?

7 A Well, I heard a couple guys that I knew who

9 went there and I was also exposed, so I thought

11 maybe — I heard she was an occupational doctor,

13 whatever, you know, it was a doctor to see.

15 Q Did you go with the union bus?

17 A No, no, nobody went to the union.

19 MR. CIFALDI: If we had a union bus

21 would –

23 A I went by myself. I figured I worked with

25 Public Service all these years. They had asbestos; I

359: 1

2 was exposed. I want to know my status, you know.

4 Q Fair enough. So your wife didnt go with

6 you?

8 A Yes, she went.

10 Q Oh, your wife did go with you?

11 J. BARBOSA – Cross

13 A Yeah.

15 Q Okay.

17 A Just to keep me company.

19 Q To keep you company?

21 A Yeah.

23 Q Okay. And did you ever read Dr. Daums

25 report?

360: 1

2 A Yes.

4 Q And do you know what Dr. Daums report

6 said?

8 A Well, basically –

10 MR. CIFALDI: I thought we went over

12 this. Didnt we?

14 A Basically I know what it said. I am no doctor

16 to understand every detail –

18 Q Sure.

20 A — but I know enough to say — to understand

22 that there is some problem with me.

24 Q When was the last time you saw a doctor

361: 1 with regards to your asbestos-related condition?

3 A Well, I saw Dr. Matthew Smith I believe.

5 Q Who was the doctor you saw?

7 MR. CIFALDI: Matthew Smith.

9 A Matthew Smith.

11 Q And do you have any plans in the near

12 J. BARBOSA – Cross

14 future to see a doctor regarding this condition?

16 A Well, if it becomes obvious, you bet Ill want

18 to see somebody.

20 Q But as of now, you have no appointments

22 set up or anything of that sort?

24 A No, I dont have an appointment set up.

362: 1 Q A couple of times throughout your

3 testimony today you alluded to a memory problem.

5 Have you seen any doctors in with regards

7 to this problem?

9 A No.

11 Q What kind of problem is it?

13 MR. CIFALDI: I dont know if he alluded

15 to a memory problem. He said he couldnt

17 remember some names of co-workers.

19 MS. BECKMAN: He said I have a problem

21 with my memory.

23 A You know, memory means — you know, to some

25 people its sharp. Im not that sharp when it comes

363: 1

2 to memory. When I cant place states or names or –

4 you know, I was always like this.

6 Q Okay. Im also not so sharp, so just

8 give me a couple minutes, look through my notes.

10 Presently, do you sleep through the

12 night?

13 J. BARBOSA – Cross

15 A Do I sleep?

17 Q Yes.

19 A Yes, but I wake up sometimes, you know.

21 Q Why do you wake up?

23 A I cant ever make eight hours sleep.

25 Q Never? You never could?

364: 1

2 A Im in bed, but I wake up maybe twice every

4 night.

6 Q For any specific reason or you just wake

8 up?

10 A I dont know. Maybe breathing or something.

12 I dont know.

14 Q Okay. And have you been to any

16 psychiatrists –

18 A No.

20 Q — or psychologists or a therapist?

22 A No.

24 Q And what are your specific fears

365: 1 regarding your asbestos-related condition?

3 A My specific fears?

5 Q Yours in particular.

7 A Well, since this thing started, you cant help

9 to read about it, you know, and they tell you it can

11 turn into cancer.

13 Q Where do you read about it?

14 J. BARBOSA – Cross

16 A In the papers, magazines.

18 Q You mean you just read articles?

20 A Yes, and this is a cloud hanging over my

22 head. I worked years under these conditions, you

24 know?

366: 1 Q Right, sure.

3 A So I guess its just a — some sort of a

5 fear. Hopefully I dont want to have it, believe me.

7 Q Right.

9 A Ill leave that to the field sooner or later.

11 The doctors going to say You got a tumor in the

13 lung. I hope it never happens, you know?

15 Q And my very last question: How is this

17 fear different than when you were smoking? Did you

19 have a fear of cigarette cancer?

21 A I was never a heavy smoker. I smoke more

23 like, you know — even a cigarette, you know, I was

25 never an avid smoker.

367: 1

2 Q You know smoking causes cancer, right?

4 A Yes, thats what it says on the package,

6 something.

8 MS. BECKMAN: All right, okay. Thank you

10 very much.

12 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LENNEY:

14 Q Mr. Barbosa, I have a few quick questions

15 J. BARBOSA – Cross

17 for you. Ill make this as painless as possible.

19 You told us earlier that you experience

21 shortness of breath when you walk, correct?

23 A Yes.

25 Q How long of a distance can you walk

368: 1

2 before you begin to experience that shortness of

4 breath?

6 A Okay. I used to go — years ago I used to go

8 around — I used to take about three blocks around.

10 You know what Im saying? Thats when I was home on

12 a Saturday. I can no longer do that. If I go three

14 blocks, four blocks I start to get discomfort. I am

16 able to make it home, dont get me wrong, but not

18 without my legs getting like empty, like no blood.

20 Q Okay.

22 A My head gets light and I start to grasp for

24 breath. Like if I go up three flights of stairs or

369: 1 four flights of stairs, the same way. Sometimes I

3 got to stop, take my breath and go again.

5 Q Okay. When you attempt to walk these

7 three or four blocks, do you ever experience leg

9 cramps or leg fatigue?

11 A Its not leg cramps; its not leg cramps.

13 Its like leg — trembling legs, you know? No

15 cramps, no pain.

16 J. BARBOSA – Cross

18 Q Have you ever told the doctor that you

20 experience –

22 A Yes.

24 Q — leg cramps?

370: 1 A Yes.

3 Q What doctor?

5 A Dr. Muthusamy, Dr. Russo I believe and Dr. –

7 whats his name — John Arthur. I went, in fact, to

9 him because of that already. Thats in the late

11 80s. John Arthur, hes a cardiologist.

13 Q So now youre telling me its not a

15 pain. Its different?

17 A No, its not exactly a pain. Some people have

19 pain. Its like a gasp for breath and my body

21 becomes weak. Do you understand? Its not a pain

23 like you stab something, you have pain.

25 Q So the feeling in your leg you believe is

371: 1

2 representative of your shortness of breath?

4 A Yes, yes. It only happens if I go dancing,

6 like I go to a party and I try to dance with my

8 daughter or somebody, my wife, you know, I –.

10 Q Okay, thats fine. Have you ever heard

12 of a company called State Insulation?

14 A Stage?

16 Q State, S-t-a-t-e.

17 J. BARBOSA – Cross

19 A State Insulation. State Insulation. No.

21 MR. LENNEY: Thats all the questions I

23 have for you. Thanks.

25 THE WITNESS: Just one. Can I make a

372: 1

2 remark? There were –

4 MR. CIFALDI: No, you cant make any

6 remarks.

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ISHERWOOD:

10 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Barbosa.

12 A Good afternoon.

14 Q I represent a couple of the defendants in

16 this matter.

18 Mr. Barbosa, can you tell me the first

20 time you recall using an Alltite gasket?

22 A No.

24 Q Can you tell me the last time you recall

373: 1 using an Alltite gasket?

3 A Again, I used it for years, you know, but I

5 cant tell you — no, I cannot tell you the last time

7 I used it.

9 Q When you used an Alltite gasket, can you

11 tell me what kinds of things you were doing when you

13 used an Alltite gasket?

15 A Well, whatever it called for, the boss would

17 say — the supervisor — Use Alltite, you know,

18 J. BARBOSA – Cross

20 depending on the specific job, and I used it.

22 Q Do you have a specific type of job that

24 you recall using Alltite gaskets on?

374: 1 A I cant recall now.

3 Q Now, you indicated Alltite gaskets

5 contained asbestos. How do you know that?

7 A I did not say that.

9 Q Okay.

11 A I said Im not an engineer or chemist. I only

13 know from what goes around. You know, years ago all

15 these gaskets contained asbestos, and I understand at

17 a certain point in time they stopped it, but up until

19 then, I cant tell you. I have no –.

21 Q Do you have any reason to believe that

23 Alltite gaskets contained asbestos?

25 A Do I have any reason to believe it? Why would

375: 1

2 they make such a fuss about it, you know?

4 Q Well, Im asking you if –

6 A Look, for years I worked in this environment.

8 I was not told This is asbestos, and if you breathe

10 this dust, youre gonna die; youre gonna get

12 cancer.

14 Its not until late that we found out

16 there was some gaskets, asbestos-related thing that

18 could be harmful to you, and I cannot say

19 J. BARBOSA – Cross

21 categorically This contains asbestos, no.

23 Q Did you know that Alltite made

25 non-asbestos gaskets?

376: 1

2 A Well, there was a time that they made

4 gaskets — I know that — that had no asbestos. Yet,

6 you know, God knows the material that they used can

8 cause a lot of cancer. I dont know.

10 Q You used non-asbestos gaskets. Is that

12 correct?

14 A Yes, after a certain point in time they

16 started to use non-asbestos. When the thing came up,

18 you know, Oh, you cant use asbestos anymore, even

20 after that we also used asbestos.

22 Q Before you became aware that asbestos was

24 a hazard and they told you that there were some

377: 1 hazards associated with asbestos, did you have

3 occasion before then to use non-asbestos gaskets?

5 A Probably so, because from what I understand

7 they stopped asbestos some time in the middle 70s

9 supposedly, you know. After that, Im sure materials

11 came into the powerhouse that were no longer

13 asbestos.

15 Q Im saying before then did you use

17 non-asbestos gaskets?

19 A I dont remember.

20 J. BARBOSA – Cross

22 Q Did you ever use metal gaskets?

24 A Yes.

378: 1 Q What would you use a metal gasket for?

3 A High-pressure steam out of the turbines,

5 pumps, valves carrying high-pressure steam. They

7 were always metal.

9 Q Did you use an Alltite gasket for

11 high-pressure steam?

13 A Its possible.

15 Q Do you have a specific recollection of

17 using an Alltite gasket for high-pressure steam?

19 A Not — I cannot tell you a piece of

21 equipment. Like I said before, if the boss said Use

23 Alltite, I used Alltite, but I cant recall a

25 specific case where I used Alltite. Those decisions

379: 1

2 were made by my supervisor.

4 Q Do you know if Alltite gaskets had any

6 distinguishing marks on them?

8 A I dont remember.

10 Q Did you ever see an Alltite — a package

12 that contained an Alltite gasket?

14 A Yes, I saw the package, but I dont remember

16 what it looked like. Ive been out of work for

18 years, you know.

20 Q Did the package have any writing on it?

21 J. BARBOSA – Cross

23 A Im sure it did.

25 Q And where do you recall this package?

380: 1

2 A In the shop. We have all these gaskets

4 around. Only when we ran out we went to get some

6 more. My boss would say Make an Alltite gasket and

8 I make an Alltite gasket. Sometimes I dont even use

10 it; somebody else used it.

12 Q Youre referring to making an Alltitie

14 gasket, right?

16 A Yeah.

18 Q When you say Make an Alltite gasket,

20 youre referring to that sheet that you described

22 before?

24 A Well, it could be that they were already made.

381: 1 Q Do you know if Alltite provided any of

3 that sheet material that you described before?

5 A I dont remember now.

7 Q I think at one point you had mentioned

9 that you had obtained an Alltite gasket from one of

11 the suppliers. Do you remember that?

13 A What?

15 Q You obtained an Alltite gasket from one

17 of the suppliers, from one of their trucks?

19 A No, I didnt say that. I dont remember to

21 say that.

22 J. BARBOSA – Cross

24 Q The only place you recall getting an

382: 1 Alltite gasket was from the shop or from the supply

3 room?

5 A Yes, boxes, you know, the names. It does not

7 mean that I necessarily used it myself, but it was

9 around the shop. I didnt do all the jobs, you

11 know.

13 MR. CIFALDI: Youre giving long answers

15 again.

17 Q Now, you referred to packing material.

19 Would you describe what you mean by packing

21 material?

23 A Packing material is used on valves and pumps.

25 Q What does it look like?

383: 1

2 A Normally comes in several sizes. Its like a

4 square shape, like a string square shape or it could

6 come in rings.

8 Q And is it soft or hard?

10 A It could be hard, it could be soft, depending

12 on the application and the composition, you know, and

14 you just put these rings around the valves or around

16 the pumps, like in the shaft so the water dont come

18 out or the oil.

20 Q Do you have a –

22 A And a — huh?

23 J. BARBOSA – Cross

25 Q Im sorry. Go ahead.

384: 1

2 A I beg your pardon?

4 Q Do you have a specific recollection of

6 using Alltite packing material?

8 A Probably so, yes. I cant say I used Alltite

10 packing for this specific job. Sometimes the boss

12 would come to me and tell me the roll to put on the

14 valve. The name was familiar. It was there.

16 Q Do you know if Alltite supplied packing

18 material to Public Service?

20 A Do I know if –

22 Q If Alltite supplied packing material to

24 Public Service.

385: 1 A I believe they did.

3 Q And why is that?

5 A Because it was the name that I know that I

7 heard talk about it, you know.

9 Q Now, at the time that you began — you

11 believed at some point you started — they informed

13 you about the hazards of asbestos and you started

15 using non-asbestos materials.

17 Is there any means of telling the

19 difference between a non-asbestos gasket and an

21 asbestos gasket?

23 A Not for me, no, not for me.

24 J. BARBOSA – Cross

386: 1 MR. ISHERWOOD: Thats all I have

3 Mr. Barbosa. Thank you.

5 MR. CIFALDI: Okay.

7 (Deposition concluded at 1:00 p.m.)

387: 1

388: 1

2 C E R T I F I C A T E

6 I, SUSAN A. DUPHORN, a Notary Public and

8 Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of New

10 Jersey, do hereby certify that prior to the

12 commencement of the examination

14 JOHN BARBOSA

16 was sworn by me to testify to the truth, the whole

18 truth and nothing but the truth.

20 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing is a

22 true and accurate transcript of the testimony as

24 taken stenographically by and before me at the time,

389: 1 place and on the date hereinbefore set forth.

3 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a

5 relative of nor employee nor attorney nor counsel for

7 any of the parties to this action, and that I am

9 neither a relative nor employee of such attorney or

11 counsel, and that I am not financially interested in

13 the action.

18 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

19 Notary Public of the State of New Jersey

20 My Commission Expires 12/16/98

21 License Certificate No. XI01315

390: 1

2 *%*%*%*%*%*%*tsdocbeginheader*%*%*%*%*%*%*

3 ————————————————————————

4 For TrialSmith Office use Only

5 ————————————————————————

7 276733

8 JOHN BARBOSA

9 BARBOSA v ABB LUMMUS CREST

11 17-Jun-97

13 NJ

17 -

20 tsdoc276733xxx

New Jersey Mesothelioma Lawyers | Philadelphia Mesothelioma Lawyers

Do You Want to Know Your Legal Options?

Search

The Law Offices of Cohen, Placitella and Roth

Popular Keyword Searches