SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY
MIDDLESEX COUNTY – LAW DIVISION
DOCKET NO. L-9507-98
CIVIL ACTION
———————————-X
IN RE: CRITCHLEY
SUB-PLAINTIFF RONALD SMITH
———————————-X
APRIL 29, 2003
Oral sworn deposition of RONALD SMITH.
Held at the law offices of WILENTZ, GOLDMAN &
SPITZER, ESQUIRES, 90 Woodbridge Center Drive,
Woodbridge, New Jersey, before Jill A.
Praml-Bussanich, Certified Shorthand Reporter and
Notary Public of the State of New Jersey, on the
above date, commencing at 1:50 p.m., there being
present:
PRIORITY-ONE COURT REPORTING SERVICES
899 MANOR ROAD
STATEN ISLAND, NEW YORK 10314
(718) 983-1234
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A P P E A R A N C E S B Y:
WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQUIRES
BY: ROBERT HAEFELE, ESQUIRE
90 Woodbridge Center Drive
Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095
Attorneys for the Plaintiff
HARDIN, KUNDLA, McKEON, POLETTO & POLIFRONI,
PC
BY: CYNTHIA HEANEY, ESQUIRE
673 Morris Avenue
Springfield, New Jersey 07081
Attorneys for the Defendants, Calon,
And Bak-A-Lum
McGIVNEY, KLUGER & GANNON
BY: BRUCE R. BRAENDER, JR., ESQUIRE
23 Vreeland Avenue
Florham Park, New Jersey
Attorneys for the Defendant, Madsen &
Howell, Hercules, York Corrugating,
Plainfield Roofing and Safeguard
LABBATE, BALKAN, COLAVITA & CONTINI, LLP
BY: STEPHEN DeNARO, ESQUIRE
7 Regent Street, Suite 711
Livingston, New Jersey 07039
Attorneys for the Defendants, Peerless
Industries, Inc. and Robert A. Keasbey
Company
RONCA, McDONALD & HANLEY, ESQUIRES
BY: JOHN RONCA, JR., ESQUIRE
Five South Regent Street
Livingston, New Jersey 07039
Attorneys for the Defendants, Karnak and
Harry Levy
PICILLO CARUSO OTOOLE, ESQUIRES
BY: JOSEPH LIPARI, ESQUIRE
371 Franklin Avenue
Nutley, New Jersey 07110
Attorneys for the Defendants, Roofers
Sales, Miracle Adhesives, Certainteed
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A P P E A R A N C E S B Y:
MALOOF, LEBOWITZ, CONNAHAN & OLESKE, PA
BY: JOHN M. SYDLAR, ESQUIRE
127 Main Street
Chatham, New Jersey 07928
Attorneys for the Defendant, Allied
Building
SWAIN & WESTREICH, ESQUIRES
BY: ROBERT E. SWAIN, JR., ESQUIRE
3100 Highway 138, Buidling #2
Brinley Professional Plaza
Wall, New Jersey 07719
Attorneys for the Defendant, Van Packer
PHILIBOSIAN, RUSSELL, KILLMURRAY & KINNEALLY,
PC
BY: CHRISTINA E. JONES ROWE, ESQUIRE
1368 How Lane, Suite 200
P.O. Box 6015
North Brunswick, New Jersey 08902
Attorneys for the Defendant, Roofers
Supply
KENT & MC BRIDE, ESQUIRES
BY: MARCUS FERREIRA, ESQUIRE
1000 Route 9 North, Suite 204
Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095
Attorneys for the Defendant, Pulmosan
VASIOS, KELLY & STROLLO, ESQUIRES
BY: GERALDINE ROSALES, ESQUIRE
2444 Morris Avenue
Union, New Jersey 07083
Attorneys for the Defendant, Bird
MARGOLIS EDELSTEIN, ESQUIRES
BY: DIANE SCIALABBA, ESQUIRE
216 Haddon Avenue
Westmont, New Jersey 08108
Attorneys for the Defendants, York Sheet
Metal, Passaic Metal Products and Arzee
Supply
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A P P E A R A N C E S B Y:
HERTEN BURSTEIN, SHERIDAN, CEVASCO,
BOTTINELLI & LITT, LLC
BY: ANGELO BAGNARA, ESQUIRE
25 Main Street
Court Plaza North
Hackensack, New Jersey 07601
Attorneys for the Defendant, National
Building Supply
HOAGLAND, LONGO, MORAN, DUNST & DOUKAS, LLP
BY: PATTI LYONS, ESQUIRE
40 Paterson Street
New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901
Attorneys for the Defendants, Standard
Roofing and Quackenbush
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I_N_D_E_X
_ _ _ _ _
WITNESS PAGE
_______ ____
RONALD SMITH
By Mr. Ronca 6
By Mr. DeNaro 101
By Ms. Scialabba 105
By Mr. Braender 108
By Mr. Ferreira 118
By Ms. Heaney 118
By Mr. Lipari 120
By Mr. Swain 131
By Ms. Rosales 131
By Mr. Sydlar 141
By Ms. Rowe 144
By Ms. Lyons 146
By Mr. Haefele 154
E_X_H_I_B_I_T_S
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
______ ___________ ____
(none)
REQUEST_FOR_DOCUMENTS_AND/OR_INFORMATION
_______ ___ _________ ______ ___________
DESCRIPTION PAGE
___________ ____
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1 RONALD SMITH, residing at 24 Oak
2 Terrace, Neptune City, New Jersey, was
3 duly sworn by the Notary Public of the
4 State of New Jersey and testified as
5 follows:
6 EXAMINATION
7
8 BY MR. RONCA:
9 Q. Mr. Smith, good afternoon. My name
10 is John Ronca. Im going to be taking your
11 deposition today.
12 Have you ever been deposed before? Have
13 you ever done this, been sworn under oath?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you have trouble hearing me?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Im going to give you some
18 instructions about what were going to be doing
19 here today.
20 Everything you and I say is being placed
21 into booklet form and can be used at the time of
22 trial.
23 Do you understand that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Youve been placed under oath. As
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1 such, youre expected to tell the truth to the
2 best of your personal knowledge.
3 What that means is that you are only
4 expected to testify as to what you know. Youre
5 not excepted to guess at something. If you dont
6 know something or you dont remember something,
7 just let us know. That — thats perfectly
8 acceptable.
9 Do you understand that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. If you dont understand a question I
12 ask, please let me know, and Ill try to rephrase
13 it so you understand it.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. Please verbalize all your answers,
16 because the court reporter cannot take down
17 gestures.
18 Please wait until I finish my question
19 because we want a clean record, even though you
20 know what Im going to say.
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Do you understand these instructions,
23 sir?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What is your date of birth?
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1 A. May 8, 1936.
2 Q. Which makes you how old today?
3 A. 66.
4 Q. Where do you currently reside?
5 A. 24 Oak Terrace, Neptune City, New
6 Jersey.
7 Q. How long have you lived there?
8 A. Approximately 15 years.
9 Q. Who do you live there with?
10 A. My wife.
11 Q. When were you married?
12 A. 1985, September 9, 1985.
13 Q. What is your wifes name?
14 A. Elizabeth.
15 Q. Is Elizabeth your first wife?
16 A. No. Second wife.
17 Q. When were you married the first time?
18 A. 1951, I believe.
19 Q. What was your first wifes name?
20 A. Brenda Smith.
21 Q. How did that marriage end?
22 A. We just couldnt get along.
23 Q. Divorce?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you have any children?
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1 A. Five.
2 Q. All from your first marriage?
3 A. Thats correct.
4 Q. Are any of your children financially
5 dependent upon you today?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Generally, is their health good?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Your parents still alive?
10 A. No.
11 Q. How old was your father when he died?
12 A. 72.
13 Q. What was his name?
14 A. Walter Smith.
15 Q. What was the cause of his death, if
16 you know?
17 A. General cause, I guess.
18 Q. Natural causes?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You dont know anything more specific
21 than that?
22 A. No.
23 Q. What was your mothers name?
24 A. Catherine.
25 Q. How old was she when she died?
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1 A. 53.
2 Q. Do you know the cause of her death?
3 A. Yes. Heart attack.
4 Q. Do you have any siblings, brothers or
5 sisters?
6 A. I have five brothers and three
7 sisters. I have one brother living now and two
8 sisters.
9 Q. Did any of your siblings –
10 withdrawn.
11 Were any of your siblings diagnosed with
12 any cancer?
13 A. Yes. My one brother.
14 Q. What type of cancer?
15 A. Stomach. I dont know what its
16 called.
17 Q. You believe it might have been
18 stomach cancer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What was his name?
21 A. Howard.
22 Q. Did he pass away?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. From stomach cancer?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. How old was he?
2 A. He was 66.
3 Q. Is that the only cancer in your
4 family youre aware of?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Were any of your brothers or sisters
7 diagnosed with any type of respiratory illness
8 that youre aware of?
9 A. Not that I know of.
10 Q. Is there any history of heart disease
11 in your family other than your mother?
12 A. No.
13 Q. How far did you go in school?
14 A. 11.
15 Q. 11th grade?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What year did you leave school?
18 A. I cant recall.
19 Q. Did you complete the school year?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Is it possible you left school in
22 approximately 1953 or 1954?
23 A. Around there.
24 Q. Did you have any jobs while you were
25 in high school?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. What did you do when you left high
3 school?
4 A. I went to work first in a plastic
5 factory.
6 Q. Where was that factory located?
7 A. North Bergen.
8 Q. Do you recall the name of the
9 factory?
10 A. No, I do not.
11 Q. Do you know if its still there?
12 A. No, I dont.
13 Q. You dont know whether its there or
14 not?
15 A. No, I dont.
16 Q. How long were you employed there?
17 A. I would say two years.
18 Q. From approximately 1954 to 1955 or
19 thereabouts?
20 A. Somewhere thereabouts, yeah.
21 Q. Do you believe that job caused you to
22 be exposed to asbestos in any way?
23 A. No.
24 Q. What did you do there?
25 A. I cleaned up and — like sort of a
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1 maintenance person.
2 Q. They manufactured plastics?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Finished products or something else?
5 A. What do you mean by finished?
6 Q. Something that would have been sold
7 to a consumer?
8 A. Yes, jewelry boxes, stuff like that.
9 Q. What did you do after you left the
10 plastic factory?
11 A. I went to Todd Shipyard.
12 Q. In Hoboken, New Jersey?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How long were you at the Todd
15 Shipyard?
16 A. About a year, I guess.
17 Q. Did you start — when did you start
18 in 1955? Did you start in 1955?
19 A. I cant recall.
20 Q. Approximately one year?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were you employed directly by the
23 shipyard?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What was your job title?
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1 A. I was a laborer.
2 Q. As a laborer, what did you do?
3 A. We used to clean up boiler rooms in
4 the ships, whatever.
5 Q. When you say clean up boiler rooms,
6 are you referring to boiler rooms on board ships?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you work primarily on ships?
9 A. Primarily, yes.
10 Q. Where else did you work?
11 A. I worked about a year at Miller
12 abattoir slaughterhouse.
13 Q. I meant at the Todd Shipyard, where
14 else did you work besides on board ships.
15 A. Thats about it.
16 Q. You would say about 100 percent of
17 your time was spent on board ships?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What else did you do besides clean up
20 boiler rooms? You were responsible generally for
21 cleaning up?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All types of cleanup on board ship?
24 A. Yes. Whatever they told me to do.
25 Q. Do you recall the names of any ships
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1 on which you worked?
2 A. No, I dont.
3 Q. Do you know what type of ships you
4 worked on?
5 A. Mostly cargo ships. Just mostly
6 cargo, oil tankers.
7 Q. No government ships, as far as you
8 know?
9 A. As far as I know, no.
10 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
11 asbestos as a laborer at the Todd Shipyard?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos?
14 A. I was cleaning up the pipes and
15 boilers. The dust would be flying all over the
16 place in there.
17 Q. What about the cleanup of pipes
18 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
19 A. We used to take the pipe covering off
20 all around the elbows. That was all asbestos.
21 Q. Do you know what type of asbestos was
22 on the elbow?
23 A. No, I do not.
24 Q. Do you know who manufactured the pipe
25 covering that you –
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1 A. No, I do not.
2 Q. — used at the Todd Shipyard?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
5 asbestos on the elbows at the Todd Shipyard?
6 A. No, I do not.
7 Q. What about the cleanup of boilers
8 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
9 A. Same basic thing. Taking the –
10 whatever they call them, the blocks out of it.
11 Q. Were you present while these
12 materials, the pipe covering, the asbestos that
13 was used on the elbows, and the blocks were being
14 applied?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. The individuals that were using these
17 products, do you know who employed them?
18 A. The shipyards.
19 Q. They were employed directly with the
20 shipyards?
21 A. Yes. From a different department.
22 There were different departments there.
23 Steamfitters or pipefitters.
24 Q. As far as you know, they were
25 employed by the Todd Shipyard?
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1 A. Yes, they were.
2 Q. Do you know the manufacturer of the
3 block that they were using at the Todd Shipyard?
4 A. No, I do not.
5 Q. Do you know where any of these
6 materials, the pipe covering, the asbestos on the
7 elbows, the block was purchased?
8 A. No, I do not.
9 Q. Do you recall the names of any
10 individuals you worked with at the Todd Shipyard?
11 A. Not at the shipyard, no.
12 Q. What did you do when you left the
13 Todd Shipyard?
14 A. I went to Miller Abattoir.
15 Q. What was the second name?
16 A. Abattoir. Its another word for
17 slaughterhouse.
18 Q. Where is that located?
19 A. Thats — thats located in Jersey
20 City.
21 Q. How long were you employed there?
22 A. About a year, year and a half tops.
23 Q. Roughly 1957?
24 A. Around there, yeah.
25 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
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1 asbestos on that job?
2 A. No, not on that job, no.
3 Q. What was your next job after Miller
4 Abattoir?
5 A. Roofing.
6 Q. Do you recall your first employer as
7 a roofer?
8 A. J.P. Patty Roofing.
9 Q. Where is — where was J.P. Patty
10 located?
11 A. Lodi, New Jersey.
12 Q. When did you start with J.P. Patty?
13 A. Right after I left the
14 slaughterhouse, in the 50s.
15 Q. Approximately 1957 or 1958?
16 A. Yes, I guess.
17 Q. Did you have any extended period of
18 unemployment after you left the slaughterhouse?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did you go directly to work with J.P.
21 Patty?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How long were you employed with J.P.
24 Patty?
25 A. 20-something years.
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1 Q. Roughly sometime in the early 1980s?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Do you know when you left J.P.
4 Pattys employment?
5 A. I left — I went to work for Muller
6 Roofing. I was with them for about, I would say,
7 three and a half, four years. Then I went back to
8 Patty. That was it.
9 Q. This was during a period — 1950s to
10 the early 1990s?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Are you currently retired?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When did you retire?
15 A. 1998.
16 Q. What did you do between 1998 and the
17 early 1980s?
18 A. Roofing.
19 Q. You were roofing?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. For J.P. Patty?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Then what you told me earlier, would
24 that be incorrect?
25 A. What?
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1 Q. You told me from the late 1950s to
2 approximately the early 1980s you worked for J.P.
3 Patty. Would it be longer than that, until
4 sometime in the 1990s?
5 A. I really cant recall.
6 Q. Well, since 1958 youve been nothing
7 but a roofer?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. You retired in 1998?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Youve only had two employers during
12 that period?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. J.P. Patty and Muller?
15 A. Yes. That I could think of, yes.
16 Q. Did there come a time when you joined
17 the Roofers Union?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When?
20 A. The first time I went with J.P.
21 Patty.
22 Q. You joined in 1958 or thereabouts?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Which local did you join?
25 A. Local 4 out of Newark.
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1 Q. They were in Newark at the time?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. At some point they relocated to
4 Parsippany?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you know when approximately?
7 A. No, I cant recall.
8 Q. Rather than ask you what your first
9 job was, you provided information in whats called
10 Answers to Interrogatories.
11 Among the information you provided is
12 information regarding sites where you worked
13 during your career. Im going to go through this
14 list.
15 When we exhaust that list, Ill ask you
16 about other sites, if you recall.
17 Did you ever work at American Can in
18 Jersey City?
19 A. Yes. On the roof.
20 Q. Do you know when you worked there?
21 A. I cant recall, really.
22 Q. Could it have been sometime in the
23 1970s?
24 A. Yes. It could have been.
25 Q. Do you know when in the 70s the
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1 early, middle or late 70s?
2 A. I cant recall.
3 Q. What type of job was that?
4 A. Roofing.
5 Q. Hot tar roof?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Was it a new roof?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you have to rip out an old roof?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Was it a new building?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you believe your work on the roof
14 at American Can caused you to be exposed to
15 asbestos?
16 A. Yes. We were putting down roll
17 roofing asbestos. Roof cement with asbestos on
18 it.
19 Q. Youve mentioned roll roofing and
20 roof cement.
21 Was there any other material that caused
22 you to be exposed to asbestos on that job?
23 A. No.
24 Q. When you refer to roll roofing, what
25 type of product are you referring to?
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1 A. You mean the name of the roll?
2 Q. No. I mean what did it look like.
3 A. It was a roll of paper, asbestos
4 paper.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. We used hundreds of them.
7 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
8 roofing that was used at American Can?
9 A. I think it might have been Carey.
10 Q. Do you know who manufactures name,
11 brand name of the roof cement?
12 A. Karnack (phonetic).
13 Q. Were there other trades working at
14 American Can while you were there?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Were they working in your presence?
17 A. They were downstairs.
18 Q. Do you believe that any of the work
19 of other trades caused you to be exposed to
20 asbestos at American Can?
21 A. There were pipefitters there, pipe
22 coverers. You go through the building all the
23 time. The stuff used to come up through the
24 ventilators.
25 Q. What stuff came up through the
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1 ventilators?
2 A. The dust where they used to mix the
3 asbestos to put on the elbows.
4 Q. Do you know who employed the
5 individuals that were mixing the –
6 A. No, I do not.
7 Q. — that product.
8 Do you know the manufacturers name, brand
9 name or trade name of the product that they were
10 mixing that came through the vents?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Were there any other products that
13 pipefitters were using that you believe caused you
14 to be exposed to asbestos at American Can?
15 A. Not really.
16 Q. Do you know where the roll roofing or
17 the roof cement was purchased that you were using
18 at American Can?
19 A. No. I seen the trucks come in
20 with –
21 Q. Which trucks?
22 A. Bradco Roofing, Standard Roofing, the
23 yellow truck, and J.P. Patty trucks themselves
24 used to bring rolls of asbestos and Karnack.
25 Q. Did J.P. Patty have a warehouse in
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1 Lodi, to your knowledge?
2 A. Yes, they did.
3 Q. Do you know how big the warehouse
4 was, approximately, square feet?
5 A. I would say Lodi was only 50 by 100.
6 Q. Did they store products there on a
7 regular basis?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you know the names of the vendors
10 that J.P. Patty dealt with regularly?
11 A. Vendors?
12 Q. Vendors, meaning suppliers?
13 A. The ones I just mentioned to you.
14 Ive seen them often in the yards delivering
15 stuff. They used to pick a lot of the stuff up by
16 themselves.
17 Q. Who is they, J.P. Patty?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Have we now discussed all the ways
20 you believe you were exposed to asbestos at
21 American Can?
22 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form.
23 You can answer.
24 A. I didnt hear the question.
25 Q. Have we now discussed all the ways
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page 26
1 you believe you were exposed to asbestos at
2 American Can in Jersey City?
3 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you ever work at Ciba-Giegy?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Did you work at two Ciba-Giegy
8 facilities, one in Summit and one in Toms River?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. When did you work in Summit?
11 A. I dont recall.
12 Q. Did you work there on one occasion or
13 more than one occasion?
14 A. More than one.
15 Q. If you added up the total amount of
16 time, how much time did you spend at Ciba-Giegy?
17 A. Both jobs?
18 Q. Just Summit.
19 A. I would say three, four weeks.
20 Q. What type of work were you performing
21 at Ciba-Giegy in Summit?
22 A. We did new work and we did old work.
23 Some we ripped off. Some was — we just put new
24 roofs on.
25 Q. Were you working on more than one
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1 roof in Summit?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Do you believe any of that work
4 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What about that work caused you to be
7 exposed to asbestos?
8 A. Same thing, the rolls, roll roof.
9 There was asbestos. Same with the roof cement.
10 Q. Are you referring to roof rolls and
11 roof cement?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you believe anything about the rip
14 out caused –
15 A. Yes. That was asbestos, too.
16 Q. You have to wait until I finish the
17 question.
18 A. Sorry.
19 MR. HAEFELE: Just a timing thing.
20 Q. BY MR. RONCA: It seems like were
21 having a normal conversation, but she has to take
22 everything down.
23 So, just to repeat the question, do you
24 believe that anything about the rip-out work
25 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What about the rip-out work caused
3 you to be exposed to asbestos?
4 A. Well, when we were ripping out, the
5 dust was flying all over the place.
6 Q. Do you know where it was coming from?
7 A. The roof we were ripping out.
8 Q. Any way of identifying the
9 manufacturer name, a brand name or trade name of
10 any of the materials you ripped off the roof at
11 Ciba-Giegy in Summit?
12 A. That we ripped off?
13 Q. Yes.
14 A. Not unless we found an old label on
15 it or something. Sometimes we did and sometimes
16 we didnt. I cant recall what they were.
17 Q. You dont specifically recall that
18 occurring at Ciba-Giegy in Summit. Is that fair?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
21 brand name or trade name of any of the roofing
22 roll used at Ciba-Giegy in Summit when you worked
23 there?
24 A. Yes. Bird paper.
25 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
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1 brand name or trade name of any of the cement that
2 was used?
3 A. Same. Karnack. Its all we ever
4 used.
5 Q. When you say we, you mean J.P.
6 Patty?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. Did you work at Ciba-Giegy in Toms
9 River?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you know when you worked there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Can you give me a decade?
14 A. I would say in the 70s.
15 Q. Middle, early, late?
16 A. I would say middle.
17 Q. By the way, can you give me a decade
18 for Ciba-Giegy in Summit?
19 A. I would say in the 70s, early 70s.
20 Q. Do you believe your work at
21 Ciba-Giegy in Toms Rivers caused you to be exposed
22 to asbestos?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. How so?
25 A. Same. Same as the other. Roll
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page 30
1 roofing, cement.
2 We did a few jobs that was new work. We
3 did some that was rip-offs.
4 Q. Do you believe the rip-off work
5 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How?
8 A. Same thing. Ripping it off and dust
9 flying all over the place.
10 Q. Would you be able to identify the
11 manufacturer or brand name of any of the materials
12 that you ripped off the roof at Ciba-Giegy in Toms
13 River?
14 A. No. Sorry.
15 Q. Do you know the name, the brand name,
16 trade name or manufacturers name of the roll
17 roofing you installed at the Toms River Ciba-Giegy
18 facility?
19 A. I believe it was Carey.
20 Q. How about the manufacturers name,
21 brand name or trade name of the cement used in
22 Toms River?
23 A. Karnack.
24 Q. Do you know — how do you spell?
25 A. K-a-r-n-a-c-k, I believe.
rsmith
page 31
1 Q. Were there other trades at the Toms
2 River Ciba-Giegy facility?
3 A. Just on the new sites.
4 Q. Do you believe any of their work
5 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
6 A. Just the same as before. You know,
7 the stuff coming through the holes in the roof,
8 pipe coverings and all that stuff. The dust
9 coming up through the vent.
10 Q. Do you know who employed the
11 individuals using the pipe covering?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
14 brand name or trade name of the pipe covering used
15 at Ciba-Giegy?
16 A. No, I do not.
17 Q. Did you see any deliveries of roofing
18 products at Toms River?
19 A. Roofing products?
20 Q. Yes. Do you know who delivered those
21 products?
22 A. I believe down there it was Bradco.
23 Q. Do you know who delivered –
24 A. And J.P. Patty trucks delivered it,
25 too.
rsmith
page 32
1 Q. Do you know who delivered any of the
2 materials that the pipe covers were using?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did you — just to step back for a
5 second, did you see other trades working at
6 Ciba-Giegy in Summit?
7 A. The only ones we would see is the new
8 jobs, yes.
9 Q. Thats a yes?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you know who employed those
12 individuals?
13 A. No, I do not.
14 Q. Any of those individuals?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you believe any of their work
17 caused you to be exposed to asbestos at Ciba-Giegy
18 in Summit?
19 A. Outside of just the pipe coverers and
20 pipefitters or whatever, thats all.
21 Q. What about their work caused you to
22 be exposed to asbestos?
23 A. Well, the dust was flying, coming up
24 through the roof hatches.
25 Q. Do you know what caused the dust?
rsmith
page 33
1 A. When it dries out, they smooth it, I
2 believe. You can see the dust coming right off
3 it.
4 Q. Do you know what product they were
5 smoothing?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
8 brand name or trade name of that product?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
11 materials that were used in Summit at Ciba-Giegy?
12 A. No. The only ones there was J.P.
13 Patty trucks delivering.
14 Q. Did you ever work at Ford Motors in
15 Edison?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Do you know when you first worked at
18 the Edison site?
19 A. Maybe the early 80s.
20 Q. Early 1980s?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you believe that you were exposed
23 to asbestos when you worked at Ford Motors in
24 Edison in the early 1980s?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 34
1 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos?
2 A. Using roll roofing again.
3 Q. Anything else?
4 A. Karnack, some comment.
5 Q. Who was your employer, by the way?
6 A. J.P. Patty.
7 Q. Just to step back to the Ciba-Giegy
8 Summit site, who was your employer, J.P. Patty?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Also at Toms River?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Aside from the roll roofing
13 and the cement, do you believe you were exposed to
14 asbestos in any other way at Ford Motors in
15 Edison?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Were there other trades working?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Was there a new roof?
20 A. Reroofing.
21 Q. Did you have to perform rip-out work?
22 A. Parts of it, yes.
23 Q. Do you believe that work caused you
24 to be exposed to asbestos?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 35
1 Q. Would you have any way of knowing the
2 manufacturers name, brand name or trade name of
3 any of the materials you ripped out?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
6 roofing that was used at Ford Motors in Edison?
7 A. I believe that was Carey also.
8 Q. The cement?
9 A. Karnack.
10 Q. Do you know who delivered the roofing
11 materials that were used at Ford Motors in Edison?
12 A. I believe it was Bradco again.
13 Q. Did you ever work at Ford Motors in
14 Mahwah?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. Do you know when you first worked
17 there?
18 A. When I first started working, which
19 would be 50ish.
20 Q. Late 50s?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you know how long you were there?
23 A. I was there four months.
24 Q. Four months?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 36
1 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
2 asbestos on that job?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos?
5 A. Same. Rolls and flashing, Karnack
6 roof cement.
7 Q. Were you exposed to asbestos in any
8 other way from that job?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you have to perform any removal
11 of old roofing there?
12 A. Parts of it, yes.
13 Q. Did you have any way of identifying
14 the manufacturers name, brand name or trade name
15 of the materials you ripped off?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
18 roofing that was used at Ford Motors in Mahwah?
19 A. I believe that was Barrett
20 (phonetic).
21 Q. The cement?
22 A. Was Karnack.
23 Q. Do you know who delivered the –
24 withdrawn.
25 Do you know who supplied the products that
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page 37
1 were used at — roofing products used at Ford
2 Motors in Mahwah?
3 A. I think that was Standard.
4 Q. Did you ever work at Maxwell House in
5 Hoboken?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you know when you first worked
8 there?
9 A. That was the late 70s.
10 Q. Who was your employer?
11 A. J.P. Patty.
12 Q. How long did you work there?
13 A. Approximately about five weeks.
14 Q. What type of work were you
15 performing?
16 A. Putting — reroofing.
17 Q. Did that involve ripping out of old
18 roofing?
19 A. Thats correct.
20 Q. Do you have any way of being able to
21 identify the manufacturers name, brand name or
22 trade name of the old roofing materials you ripped
23 off?
24 A. No, I dont.
25 Q. To save some time — withdrawn.
rsmith
page 38
1 Do you believe you were exposed to
2 asbestos on that job?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos on
5 that job?
6 A. Same. Roof rolls, the flashing.
7 Q. When you say flashing, are you
8 referring to cement?
9 A. Yes. We put asbestos on the walls
10 with cement, too.
11 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
12 roofing used at Maxwell House?
13 A. That would be Carey, too.
14 Q. How about the cement?
15 A. Karnack.
16 Q. Were there any other ways you were
17 exposed to asbestos at Maxwell House in Hoboken?
18 MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
19 Q. BY MR. RONCA: Aside from the roll
20 roofing and flashing cement.
21 A. No.
22 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
23 materials used at Maxwell House?
24 A. J.P. Patty delivered the stuff
25 themselves.
rsmith
page 39
1 Q. Were there other trades on this job?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you ever work at Johnson &
4 Johnson in New Brunswick?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Do you know which facility? Do you
7 know what it was called?
8 A. I dont know.
9 Q. Do you know where it was located?
10 A. I worked at Johnson & Johnson three
11 or four times. I dont recall what buildings.
12 Q. Different buildings?
13 A. We did new ones and old ones.
14 Q. When was the first time you worked at
15 a Johnson & Johnson site?
16 A. I would say late 70s.
17 Q. If you added up the total amount of
18 time you worked at a Johnson & Johnson site, how
19 long would it be?
20 A. I would say two and a half months.
21 Q. What type of work did you perform at
22 the Johnson & Johnson sites?
23 A. The same, rolls, flashing, asbestos.
24 Q. Did you have to remove any old
25 roofing?
rsmith
page 40
1 A. Some parts we did.
2 Q. Did you have any way of being able to
3 identify the manufacturers name, brand name or
4 trade name of any of the old roofing materials you
5 ripped off?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
8 roofing used at any of the Johnson & Johnson sites
9 in the late 1970s?
10 A. Bird.
11 Q. Who was your employer?
12 A. J.P. Patty, all of it.
13 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
14 flashing?
15 When youre referring to that, youre
16 referring to cement; is that right?
17 A. Yes. Karnack. And the paper was
18 Bird.
19 Q. Did you ever work in the vicinity of
20 other trades at the Johnson & Johnson sites?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
23 materials that were used at the Johnson & Johnson
24 sites in New Brunswick?
25 A. I believe that was Standard.
rsmith
page 41
1 Q. Did you ever work at M & M Candies in
2 Hackettstown?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you know when you first worked
5 there?
6 A. That would be the early 80s.
7 Q. Who was your employer?
8 A. That was Patty, too.
9 Q. Do you know how long you spent on
10 that job?
11 A. Three weeks.
12 Q. What type of work were you doing?
13 A. Same. All roofing.
14 Q. Was this new work?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. New construction?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
19 asbestos on that job?
20 A. Yes, I was.
21 Q. How?
22 A. Asbestos rolls, flashing walls with
23 asbestos, stuff coming up from other trades
24 downstairs.
25 Q. Do you know what type of products
rsmith
page 42
1 they were using, the other trades?
2 A. Asbestos, putting around the pipes,
3 elbows of the pipes, and stuff like that.
4 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
5 asbestos that they were using?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you know who employed the trades
8 that were covering the pipes?
9 A. No, I do not.
10 Q. How do you know they were using
11 asbestos?
12 A. Uh?
13 Q. How do you know they were using
14 asbestos?
15 A. I seen it on all the jobs, same
16 stuff. In fact, I talked to a lot of them.
17 Q. Did you talk to anybody at the
18 Hackettstown M & M site?
19 A. No. It was the same stuff.
20 Q. You believe it was the same stuff?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
23 roofing that was used at the M & M site in
24 Hackettstown?
25 A. I think that was Flintkote.
rsmith
page 43
1 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
2 flashing cement?
3 A. Karnack.
4 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
5 materials to J.P. Patty at M & M in Hackettstown?
6 A. J.P. Patty themselves.
7 Q. Do you know who supplied the
8 materials that the individuals covering the pipes
9 were using?
10 A. No, I do not.
11 Q. Did you ever work at American
12 Cyanamid in Bound Brook?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you know when you first worked
15 there?
16 A. Again, I guess in the 80s, low 80s.
17 Q. Early 1980s?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who was your employer?
20 A. J.P. Patty.
21 Q. What type of work were you doing?
22 A. Same. Roll roofing. We didnt
23 remove no roofs off there.
24 Q. It was a new building?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 44
1 Q. Do you believe that work caused you
2 to be exposed to asbestos?
3 A. Right.
4 Q. How so?
5 A. Rolling the rolls, flashing the
6 walls.
7 Q. Who manufactured the rolls that were
8 used at American Cyanamid?
9 A. Barrett.
10 Q. How about the flashing product?
11 A. Karnack.
12 Q. How long did you work at American
13 Cyanamid Bound Brook?
14 A. I would say three weeks.
15 Q. Do you know which building?
16 A. No, I do not.
17 Q. Was it a new building?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. It was built from the ground up?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Were there any other trades on that
22 job?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you believe that any of their work
25 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
rsmith
page 45
1 A. Other than what I told you, just
2 that, the pipe coverers and stuff.
3 Q. What type of products were they using
4 that you believe caused you to be exposed to
5 asbestos?
6 A. Putting asbestos on the elbows and
7 stuff like that.
8 Q. Do you know who manufactured those
9 products?
10 A. No, I do not.
11 Q. Do you know who employed the
12 individuals that were putting the asbestos on the
13 elbows?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you know who supplied any of the
16 materials that those individuals were using?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
19 materials that were used at American Cyanamid in
20 Bound Brook?
21 A. I dont know who supplied them. I
22 cant remember that.
23 MR. HAEFELE: What was the question?
24 Q. BY MR. RONCA: Do you know who
25 supplied any of the roofing materials used at
rsmith
page 46
1 American Cyanamid in Bound Brook?
2 A. I dont remember who supplied them,
3 no.
4 Who delivered, you mean? Who delivered
5 the stuff?
6 Q. If you saw deliveries.
7 A. The only one I saw delivering was
8 Patty roofing.
9 Q. Just to remind you, there is a
10 problem with people hearing in the back, because
11 of the noise in this room.
12 If you could just keep your voice up.
13 Ill try to keep mine up.
14 Did you work at Revlon in Edison?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. Do you know when you first worked
17 there?
18 A. In the 80s.
19 Q. Middle, early, late?
20 A. I would say middle.
21 Q. Who was your employer?
22 A. J.P. Patty.
23 Q. Do you know how long you spent on
24 that job?
25 A. Two weeks.
rsmith
page 47
1 Q. What type of work was being done?
2 A. We were putting a reroof on it.
3 Q. Did that involve rip out of old
4 roofing material?
5 A. No. It was just screw-down
6 installation. We put asbestos roof on that.
7 Q. What about — you believe that work
8 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What about that work caused you to be
11 exposed to asbestos?
12 A. Rolling the rolls out and doing the
13 flashing.
14 Q. Who manufactured the rolls used at
15 Revlon in Edison?
16 A. I believe that was Bird, too.
17 Q. Who manufactured the flashing product
18 that was used at Revlon?
19 A. Karnack.
20 Q. Do you know who supplied those
21 materials to that site?
22 A. Again, J.P. Patty.
23 Q. Did you ever have to order materials
24 for J.P. Patty?
25 A. Did I ever, no.
rsmith
page 48
1 Q. Did you ever estimate a job?
2 A. No. I signed invoices, when material
3 was delivered.
4 Q. When did you do that, on site?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Never at the facility in Lodi? Is
7 that fair?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Were there any other trades at Revlon
10 in Edison?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you ever work at Rheingold
13 Brewery in Newark, New Jersey?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When did you first work there?
16 A. Early 70s.
17 Q. Just one occasion?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you know what type of work was
20 being done?
21 A. It was a new roof.
22 Q. New building?
23 A. Well, it was an old building, but we
24 were putting the extended floor up, and we did the
25 new one.
rsmith
page 49
1 Q. It was a new addition to an existing
2 building?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. No rip out of old materials?
5 A. No.
6 Q. How long did you spend at that site?
7 A. I was there about five weeks.
8 Q. Was your employer J.P. Patty?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you believe any of that work
11 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos?
14 A. Roll — rolls, flashing walls with
15 Karnack cement.
16 Q. Who manufactured the paper?
17 A. That was Flintkote.
18 Q. Do you know who supplied those
19 materials to that site?
20 A. I believe Bradco.
21 Q. Were there any other trades working
22 at that site when you were working there?
23 A. No, there wasnt.
24 Q. Did you ever work at Newark Airport?
25 A. Yes, I did.
rsmith
page 50
1 Q. How many times?
2 A. Excuse me?
3 Q. How many times? One occasion?
4 A. Well, we did the new airport. I was
5 there almost a year.
6 Q. Do you know when, decade?
7 A. First built it. I guess it was 78,
8 80.
9 Q. Late 70s, early 80s?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Youre talking about the new
12 passenger terminals?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you know which you worked on?
15 A. All of them.
16 Q. A, B and C?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Aside from the work on the passenger
19 terminals, did you work anywhere else in Newark
20 Airport?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Where else?
23 A. I worked on the cargo terminal.
24 Q. North terminal?
25 A. I guess thats what it is.
rsmith
page 51
1 Q. Was that part of the same job?
2 A. No.
3 Q. It was a different job. When was
4 that?
5 A. That was, I would say, maybe eight
6 years after that, the new one.
7 Q. Sometime in the late 80s, early
8 90s?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you believe your work on the cargo
11 terminal exposed you to asbestos?
12 A. Yes. We used asbestos felt.
13 Q. Did you have to perform any removal
14 of old materials at that site?
15 A. No.
16 Q. The cargo building?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know who manufactured the felt
19 that you used at the cargo –
20 A. I believe that was Flintkote, too.
21 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
22 asbestos in any other way at the cargo facility at
23 Newark Airport?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you perform any flashing?
rsmith
page 52
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Let me ask you, sir, generally, are
3 you aware there came a time when asbestos was
4 removed from roofing paper, if you know?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. When was that?
7 A. I think it was 1990.
8 Q. When you worked at the passenger
9 terminals at Newark Airport, was that one
10 continuous job?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How long did you spend on that job?
13 A. A year.
14 Q. Do you believe that work caused you
15 to be exposed to asbestos?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How?
18 A. Same. Using asbestos rolls, Karnack
19 roof flashing.
20 Q. Were there other trades on that job?
21 A. Numerous, yes.
22 Q. Do you believe any of the work they
23 were performing caused you to be exposed to
24 asbestos?
25 A. On that one, I would have to say no.
rsmith
page 53
1 Q. Why?
2 A. Because it was all outside, like.
3 There was no walls up. If there was any, I dont
4 know if it would get to the roof or not. But it
5 might have been. I dont know.
6 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
7 brand name or trade name of the roofing rolls at
8 the passenger airport terminal?
9 A. Carey.
10 Q. Do you know the manufacturer, brand
11 name or trade name of the cement?
12 A. Karnack.
13 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
14 materials to Newark Airport, passenger terminals?
15 A. I believe that was Standard, too.
16 Q. Was your employer J.P. Patty?
17 A. Yes. He delivered a lot of the
18 materials, too.
19 Q. He meaning?
20 A. J.P. Patty.
21 Q. Did you ever work at –
22 MR. HAEFELE: Lets take a break.
23 (A short recess was taken.)
24 Q. BY MR. RONCA: Were back on the
25 record. And youre still under oath. Do you
rsmith
page 54
1 understand that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you ever work at the Westinghouse
4 facility in Newark?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you know when you worked there?
7 A. I guess the low 80s.
8 Q. Meaning the early 1980s?
9 A. Low 80s, I guess, yeah.
10 Q. Who was your employer at Westinghouse
11 in Newark?
12 A. J.P. Patty.
13 Q. Do you know how long you spent on
14 that job?
15 A. About three weeks.
16 Q. What type of work were you
17 performing?
18 A. Roofing.
19 Q. Was it a new roof?
20 A. No. Reroof.
21 Q. Did you have to rip off an old roof?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you have any way of knowing the
24 brand name, trade name or manufacturers name of
25 any of the materials you ripped off the old roof
rsmith
page 55
1 at Westinghouse?
2 A. No, I dont.
3 Q. Do you believe the new roofing work
4 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
5 A. Excuse me.
6 Q. Do you believe the new roofing work
7 that you performed at Westinghouse caused you to
8 be exposed to asbestos?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What about that roofing work caused
11 you to be exposed to asbestos?
12 A. We ripped off the old one. The dust
13 came out of that. We put the new roof on. We put
14 asbestos roofing on top of that, put a new roof.
15 Q. What type of materials were used on
16 the new roof?
17 A. Felt, asbestos felt.
18 Q. Do you believe that contained
19 asbestos?
20 A. Excuse me?
21 Q. Do you believe the felt that was used
22 at Westinghouse contained asbestos?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Were there any other products used
25 that you believe contained asbestos?
rsmith
page 56
1 A. The roof cement.
2 Q. Any others?
3 A. No, I dont think so.
4 Q. Were there other trades working at
5 Westinghouse in Newark while you were working
6 there?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you know who manufactured the felt
9 that was used at Westinghouse?
10 A. I think that was Bird.
11 Q. How about the cement? Do you know
12 who manufactured that at Westinghouse?
13 A. Karnack, I believe.
14 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
15 material to Westinghouse in Newark?
16 A. I think it was Allied.
17 Q. Allied?
18 A. Allied Roofing Supplies.
19 Q. Did you work there only on one
20 occasion in the early 1980s?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you ever work at Anheuser-Busch
23 in Newark?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you know when you worked there?
rsmith
page 57
1 A. I would say the end of 1970s,
2 beginning of the 80s.
3 Q. Did you work there on more than one
4 occasion?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Beginning in the late 1970s?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you know how many times you worked
9 there?
10 A. I would say three or four.
11 Q. Different sections of the roof?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. If you added up the total amount of
14 time, how long did you spend at Anheuser-Busch?
15 A. I would say a month.
16 Q. Did you work for the same employer
17 every time you worked there?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who was your employer?
20 A. J.P. Patty.
21 Q. What type of work did you perform at
22 Anheuser-Busch?
23 A. Ripping off the old roofs. Putting
24 on new ones.
25 Q. Do you believe that the ripping off
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page 58
1 of the old roof caused you to be exposed to
2 asbestos?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you have any way of identifying
5 the manufacturers name, brand name or trade name
6 of the old roofing materials you ripped off?
7 A. No.
8 Q. What materials, what new materials
9 did you use at Anheuser-Busch that you believe
10 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
11 A. The roll roofing.
12 Q. Anything else?
13 A. Roof cement.
14 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roof
15 cement that was used at Anheuser-Busch?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you know who manufactured the roll
18 roofing that was used at Anheuser-Busch?
19 A. Could have been Bird, too.
20 Q. When you say could have been,
21 youre not sure?
22 A. Im not sure.
23 Q. Were there other trades working in
24 your vicinity at any time at Anheuser-Busch?
25 A. No.
rsmith
page 59
1 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
2 materials to Anheuser-Busch when you worked there?
3 A. I think it was J.P. Patty.
4 Q. Did you ever work at Exxon Bayway
5 Refinery in Linden, New Jersey?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You worked there once or more than
8 once?
9 A. Once.
10 Q. Do you know where you worked within
11 that facility?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do you know who your employer was?
14 A. J.P. Patty.
15 Q. Do you know when you started working
16 there, what year?
17 A. Mid 80s.
18 Q. Do you know how long you worked
19 there?
20 A. About three weeks.
21 Q. What type of work were you
22 performing?
23 A. Putting a new roof on.
24 Q. On a new structure?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 60
1 Q. Do you believe that anything about
2 that work caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What?
5 A. Asbestos rolls, asbestos flashing,
6 asbestos roof cement.
7 Q. When you say flashing, are you
8 referring to roof cement?
9 A. Referring to the asbestos flashing
10 itself and the roof cement.
11 Q. Is flashing distinct from roofing
12 rolls?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What did –
15 A. Thats not distinct. Its the same
16 stuff you put on. You put a couple plies on.
17 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
18 roofing rolls that were used at Exxon Bayway?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
21 cement that was used at Exxon Bayway?
22 A. No, I dont.
23 Q. Were there other trades working in
24 your vicinity at Exxon Bayway?
25 A. Yes.
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page 61
1 Q. Do you believe any of their work
2 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What about their work caused you to
5 be exposed to asbestos?
6 A. Same as the others, pipe coverers.
7 Q. What type of materials were the pipe
8 coverers using that you believe contained
9 asbestos?
10 A. They were putting asbestos on the
11 elbows.
12 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
13 product they were putting on the elbows?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you know who employed the pipe
16 coverers?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
19 materials to Exxon Bayway?
20 A. I believe that was Allied, too.
21 Q. Did you ever work at Celanese in
22 Summit, New Jersey?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you also work at a Celanese plant
25 in Trenton, New Jersey?
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page 62
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. When did you work in Summit?
3 A. The 80s I believe, middle 80s.
4 Q. Do you know who your employer was?
5 A. J.P. Patty.
6 Q. What type of work was being
7 performed?
8 A. We were reroofing that too, tearing
9 the roof off and putting a new one on.
10 Q. How long did you spend at that site?
11 A. I would say about five weeks.
12 Q. Do you believe the rip out of the old
13 roof caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you have any way of identifying
16 the manufacturers name, brand name or trade name
17 of the old roofing materials you ripped out?
18 A. No, I dont.
19 Q. Do you believe that the installation
20 of new roofing materials caused you to be exposed
21 to asbestos at Celanese?
22 A. Yes.
23 MR. HAEFELE: Youre talking about
24 Summit?
25 MR. RONCA: Yes. My questions are
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page 63
1 limited to Summit right now.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What type of materials caused you to
4 be exposed to asbestos at Celanese in Summit?
5 A. Asbestos rolls.
6 Q. Any other materials?
7 A. Roof cement. I think thats it. No,
8 thats it.
9 Q. Were there other trades working on
10 that job?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you believe that any of their work
13 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What about their work caused you to
16 be exposed to asbestos?
17 A. Same thing. Covering the pipes.
18 Q. Im sorry. Covering the pipes and –
19 A. The elbows, with the asbestos.
20 Q. Do you know who manufactured the –
21 A. No, I do not.
22 Q. — pipe covering that they were using
23 on the elbows?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Do you know who supplied the pipe
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page 64
1 coverers at Celanese?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
4 rolls used at Summit, manufacturers name, brand
5 name or trade name?
6 A. No, I dont remember.
7 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
8 brand name or trade name of the cement used in
9 Summit?
10 A. That was Karnack.
11 Q. When did you work — withdrawn.
12 Do you know who supplied the roofing
13 materials to Celanese in Summit when you worked
14 there?
15 A. Well, Allied supplied some. And
16 Patty supplied some.
17 Q. When did you first work at Celanese
18 in Trenton?
19 A. That would be?
20 Q. Beginning of 80s, early 1980s?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Was your employer J.P. Patty?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you know how long you spent on
25 that job?
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page 65
1 A. Two weeks.
2 Q. What type of work was being done?
3 A. We were ripping out old flashing and
4 putting in new asbestos flashing.
5 Q. Do you believe the rip out of the
6 flashing caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
7 A. Yes, dust.
8 Q. Do you have any way of being able to
9 identify the manufacturers name, brand name or
10 trade name of any of the materials you ripped out
11 at Celanese?
12 A. No, I do not.
13 Q. Do you believe the reinstallation of
14 flashing materials caused you to be exposed to
15 asbestos at Celanese in Trenton?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What material caused you to be
18 exposed to asbestos?
19 A. Same thing, pipe cover.
20 Q. Pipe covering?
21 A. Yes. Asbestos around all the elbows.
22 Put that down, what they were doing, they level it
23 out.
24 Q. You didnt use those products, right?
25 A. What?
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page 66
1 Q. You did not use those products
2 yourself, is that fair?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you know who employed the
5 individuals using those products?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you know the manufacturers name,
8 brand name or trade name of any of the products
9 the pipe coverers were using at Celanese in
10 Trenton?
11 A. No.
12 Q. What type of work were you
13 performing?
14 A. Putting wall flashing up.
15 Q. Do you believe that caused you to be
16 exposed to asbestos?
17 A. Yes. By ripping it off. Dust coming
18 off it. Put it back on. We used asbestos felt
19 and cement.
20 Q. Who manufactured the felt?
21 A. I believe that was Carey.
22 Q. Who manufactured the cement?
23 A. That was Karnack, too.
24 Q. Do you know who supplied — Im
25 sorry. Were you done with your answer?
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page 67
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
3 materials to Celanese in Trenton?
4 A. No, Patty.
5 Q. Did you see any deliveries of
6 materials that the pipe coverers were using at
7 Celanese?
8 A. No, I did not.
9 Q. Did you ever work at Hoffman-LaRoche?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you work at their Belvedere
12 facility and Clifton facility?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When did you work in Clifton?
15 A. 80s, middle 80s.
16 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
17 asbestos on that job?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who was your employer?
20 A. J.P. Patty.
21 Q. How long were you on the job?
22 A. I would say a month.
23 Q. Do you know what type of work you
24 were performing?
25 A. Put a new roof on.
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page 68
1 Q. On an existing structure or a new
2 structure, old structure?
3 A. We werent ripping it off. We were
4 putting it on.
5 Q. You were not ripping it off?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you believe the reinstallation of
8 roofing materials caused you to be exposed to
9 asbestos at Hoffman-LaRoche?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How?
12 A. About rolling the rolls out.
13 Flashing the walls with asbestos and flashing with
14 product, cement.
15 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
16 rolls used at Hoffman-LaRoche?
17 A. I believe it was Bird.
18 Q. Again, so were clear, when you refer
19 to flashing, putting flashing up, youre referring
20 to rolls?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were there other trades working at
23 the Hoffman-LaRoche Clifton facility when you were
24 working there?
25 A. No.
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page 69
1 Q. Do you know who employed the roofing
2 material to Hoffman-LaRoche Clifton when you were
3 working there?
4 A. Bird supplied some. I remember them
5 in there. And Patty supplied some.
6 Q. When did you first work at their
7 Belvedere facility?
8 A. I would say 88.
9 Q. 1988?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How long did you spent on that job?
12 A. I was only there two weeks.
13 Q. Was your employer J.P. Patty?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
16 asbestos on that job?
17 A. Yes. Just the flashing.
18 Q. How were you exposed to asbestos by
19 the flashing?
20 A. Flashing, rolls, cement. The rest of
21 the roof was asphalt, I mean.
22 Q. Asphalt paving?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
25 flashing paper that was used at Hoffman-LaRoche?
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page 70
1 A. That was Carey.
2 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
3 cement?
4 A. Karnack.
5 Q. Did you have to perform any ripping
6 out of old materials there?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you believe that work caused you
9 to be exposed to asbestos?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you have any way of identifying
12 the manufacturers name, brand name or trade name
13 of any of the materials you ripped out?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Were other trades working at
16 Hoffman-LaRoche when you worked there?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know who supplied the new
19 roofing material to Hoffman-LaRoche Belvidere?
20 A. I think that was Carey, also.
21 Q. Did you ever work at Merck in –
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 MR. HAEFELE: Merck in Rahway.
24 Q. BY MR. RONCA: In Rahway, New Jersey?
25 A. Yes.
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page 71
1 Q. When did you work there?
2 A. Late 70s.
3 Q. For how long?
4 A. I was there about five weeks.
5 Q. Was your employer J.P. Patty?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Was that the only time you worked at
8 Merck in Rahway?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What type of work were you
11 performing?
12 A. We were ripping off an old roof,
13 putting on a new one.
14 Q. Do you believe the ripping off the
15 old roof caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you have any way of identifying
18 the manufacturers name, brand name or trade name
19 of the old roofing material?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Do you believe the reinstallation of
22 roofing caused you to be exposed to asbestos at
23 Merck?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What materials caused you to be
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page 72
1 exposed to asbestos?
2 A. Rolls.
3 Q. Do you know who supplied the rolls at
4 Merck?
5 A. Excuse me?
6 Q. Do you know who manufactured –
7 withdrawn.
8 Do you know the manufacturers name, brand
9 name or trade name of the rolls that were used at
10 Merck?
11 A. I believe that was Bird.
12 Q. Do you believe you were exposed to
13 asbestos in any other way at Merck?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Were there other trades on that job?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
18 materials to Merck in Rahway?
19 A. I believe that was Bird.
20 Q. Did you ever work at the PSE&G Essex
21 Station in Newark?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Is that a power plant?
24 A. It was a substation.
25 Q. What type of work were you
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page 73
1 performing?
2 A. Putting on a new roof.
3 Q. Flat, hot tar roof?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. When did you work there?
6 A. I would say 88, 87, 88.
7 Q. Who was your employer?
8 A. Patty roofing.
9 Q. Do you believe that worked caused you
10 to be exposed to asbestos?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you have to rip off old roofing
13 at that site?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Was this a new structure?
16 A. Yes, it was.
17 Q. What materials were you using that
18 caused you to be exposed to asbestos?
19 A. Rolls of asbestos.
20 Q. Do you know who manufactured –
21 A. Roof cement, I was going to say, too.
22 Q. Any others?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
25 rolls used at PSE&G Essex Station?
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page 74
1 A. I think that was Carey.
2 Q. How about the roof cement?
3 A. That was also Karnack.
4 Q. Were there other trades that were
5 working at the PSE&G Essex Station when you worked
6 there?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you know who supplied the roofing
9 materials to the Essex Station?
10 A. I think that was Allied.
11 Q. Weve now exhausted all the work
12 sites that you listed in your Answers to
13 Interrogatories.
14 As you sit here today, can you recall any
15 other sites where you worked during your career
16 where you believe you were exposed to asbestos?
17 A. Im sure there were many. I dont
18 recall.
19 Q. You dont recall specific sites as
20 you sit here today?
21 A. No.
22 Q. I want to ask you some questions
23 about the use of roof cement.
24 Now, youve been using the terms, as I
25 understand it, roof cement and/or flashing and/or
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page 75
1 flashing cement interchangeably?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. In your mind is roof cement and
4 flashing cement the same thing?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Is that product, roof cement or
7 flashing cement, only used to perform flashing
8 work?
9 A. Its used for flashing work,
10 stripping metal.
11 Q. Trim work as opposed to the actual
12 roof itself?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. On walls?
15 A. We use it on walls.
16 Q. Holes?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Equipment?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. The only manufacturer of cement that
21 youve identified today is Karnack.
22 As you sit here today, do you recall the
23 manufacturers of any other flashing cements you
24 used during your career?
25 A. There was Hercules. Miracle, I think
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page 76
1 it was, Miracle Cement.
2 Q. Any others?
3 A. I recall there were others, but I
4 cant recall the names.
5 Q. Now, as far as the Karnack flashing
6 cement, generally, can you tell me how that came
7 packaged?
8 A. Comes in a five-gallon can.
9 Q. Did you ever see it packaged any
10 other way?
11 A. Three gallon and one gallons.
12 Q. Is it fair to say despite the
13 difference in size, in packaging, when you opened
14 the packaging, the product always looked the same?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What did it look like?
17 A. Black. And it was like — sort of
18 like a liquid form.
19 Q. Did that product contain asphalt?
20 A. It doesnt now.
21 Q. Do you know whether it did in the
22 1950s and 60s?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you know — withdrawn.
25 Did the products appearance change in any
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page 77
1 way during your career?
2 A. Just recently.
3 Q. Prior to that, did the product change
4 in any way?
5 A. No.
6 Q. When was the first time you recall
7 seeing a Karnack cement?
8 A. I would say 1960.
9 Q. From 1960 until just recently, did
10 the products appearance change in any way when
11 you opened the packaging?
12 A. When you opened the packaging, no.
13 Q. How was that product applied,
14 generally?
15 A. By trowel.
16 Q. When it was on the trowel, can you
17 describe the texture of it?
18 A. It was like — it was a liquid form.
19 Q. Maybe a little thicker than liquid?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Would you say it had the consistency
22 of peanut butter?
23 A. A little more than that.
24 Q. How do you apply that product?
25 A. With a trowel.
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page 78
1 Q. To what?
2 A. Walls.
3 Q. Then what would you do?
4 A. Put a sheet up, apply it again, put
5 another sheet up.
6 Q. Did anything about the application of
7 the Karnack flashing cement create any dust?
8 A. Not at first.
9 Q. So, when you put it on the trowel,
10 put it on the wall, that process did not create
11 any dust?
12 A. At first, yes.
13 Q. Once you put the product on the wall,
14 did you have to do anything else to the product?
15 A. No. Just smooth it out, whatever.
16 If we had to smooth it out, come back the next day
17 and do it. It would be fairly hard then.
18 Q. Well, okay. I dont mean to cut you
19 off.
20 A. Then it would give off a little dust
21 off it.
22 Q. Why would you have to go back the
23 next day to smooth it out?
24 A. What?
25 Q. Withdrawn.
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page 79
1 As I understand your testimony, you said
2 you had to go back the next day to smooth out the
3 product?
4 A. We didnt have to. Sometimes they
5 say could you get that a little smoother for the
6 inspector, and we go back and smooth it out.
7 Q. What was — how long did that product
8 take to set up or dry, the Karnack roof cement?
9 A. A couple days.
10 Q. When it ultimately — when it did
11 dry, was it still tacky, is that fair? Do you
12 know what I mean by tacky, sticky?
13 A. I wouldnt say it was sticky, no.
14 Q. When you had to go back to a see –
15 withdrawn.
16 A. They made us take the rough edges
17 off.
18 Q. What do you mean by that?
19 A. Like a lump in it or something. You
20 did that, it would break off.
21 Q. Where would these rough edges appear?
22 A. On the surface.
23 Q. Youre putting the cement underneath
24 the paper; is that right?
25 A. Underneath it and on top of it.
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page 80
1 Q. And on top of it?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Once it was applied on top, would it
4 be fair to say generally you would not have to go
5 back to do anything to the cement itself?
6 A. Generally, yeah.
7 Q. Specifically, what are you referring
8 to where you would have to go back at the request
9 of somebody to smooth out –
10 A. Like –
11 Q. A wall?
12 A. If there was a lump in it. Take the
13 lump off it. Then just coat it again.
14 Q. You would do — you would smooth it
15 out rather than just apply new cement? Is that
16 what youre telling me?
17 A. It would still remain there. If you
18 didnt take it off, it would still remain there.
19 Q. It meaning what?
20 A. If you put new stuff on it or not,
21 you would still have the lump there.
22 Q. A lump?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Who would tell you to go back and do
25 this?
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page 81
1 MR. HAEFELE: Wait for the questions.
2 Q. BY MR. RONCA: Who would tell you to
3 go back and do this?
4 A. The inspector, if he didnt like it.
5 Q. An inspector from the municipality?
6 A. The bondsman or something.
7 Q. A bondsman?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Would your employer ever tell you to
10 go back and do that?
11 A. No. But if he told my employer we
12 had to do it, my employer would tell me.
13 Q. Do you specifically recall any site
14 where a bondsman or anybody else told you or your
15 employer to go back and smooth out a flashing
16 cement?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Where?
19 A. I cant remember all the sites. I
20 remember doing it.
21 Q. Do you know why they wanted it
22 smoothed out?
23 A. It looked like hell, I guess.
24 Q. Do you know what the purpose of
25 flashing cement is?
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page 82
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What is it?
3 A. To waterproof a wall.
4 Q. Your opinion, would — if you had to
5 go back to smooth out already applied flashing
6 cement on a wall, would that affect its
7 waterproofing capacity?
8 A. No. Because once you have the lump,
9 you put new cement on it.
10 Q. You believe that when you went back
11 to smooth out flashing cement, that that process
12 created dust?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How would you do that?
15 MR. HAEFELE: Do what?
16 Q. BY MR. RONCA: Smooth out a lump in
17 the flashing cement.
18 A. Knock the lump off it.
19 Q. How long would that take?
20 A. Two minutes, three minutes.
21 According to how bad it is, how many there are.
22 Q. What kind of tool would you use?
23 A. Usually I use a trowel.
24 Q. Can you, again Im not sure I got the
25 answer to that, can you describe what the product
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page 83
1 looked like when it was dry?
2 A. It looked black.
3 Q. Can you describe its consistency or
4 texture?
5 A. It was hard.
6 Q. Did it look like tar?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did it have the same consistency or
9 texture as tar?
10 Is that a fair statement?
11 A. As hot tar, you mean?
12 Q. Yes. Dried hot tar.
13 A. Yeah, I would say that.
14 Q. Did you ever become aware that
15 exposure to asbestos could be hazardous or is
16 alleged to be hazardous to your health?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you know when that was?
19 A. 1990, 1991.
20 Q. What were the circumstances of how
21 you became aware?
22 A. We had a safety inspector tell us.
23 Q. Do you know who they worked for?
24 A. We had one of our own in our company.
25 Q. Who were you working for in 1991?
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page 84
1 A. Patty.
2 Q. A safety inspector from J.P. Patty –
3 what did he tell you?
4 A. He says asbestos is bad for you.
5 Q. As a result –
6 A. From then on, any time we had to work
7 with it, we had to wear a mask.
8 Q. Okay. Aside from the wearing of a
9 mask –
10 A. We never put it back on. Im talking
11 about taking it off.
12 Q. On those occasions where you had to
13 remove asbestos after 1991, what specific
14 procedures were in place, if any, other than
15 wearing a mask?
16 What did you have to do?
17 A. Take it off the roof, take the pieces
18 off the roof, put it in a plastic bag, tape it
19 with duct tape, and put it in a dumpster.
20 Q. Other than that and wearing a mask,
21 there were no other specific precautions taken?
22 A. No. You had — when we were ripping
23 it off, you had to put a white suit on.
24 Q. What type of mask were you wearing?
25 A. To tell you the truth, do you know
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page 85
1 what it was. It was a thing in the 90s –
2 Q. Do you know the difference between a
3 mask and a respirator?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Was it a mask or respirator?
6 A. Mask.
7 Q. Was it paper?
8 A. No. It was a regular mask.
9 Q. It had a cartridge?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you know how many occasions you
12 performed the rip out of asbestos or asbestos
13 containing products after 1991, approximately?
14 A. I really cant tell you. Eight, ten
15 occasions.
16 Q. Did you ever become certified in
17 asbestos removal?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Your employer never required you to
20 become certified in asbestos removal?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you work for Patty from 1991 to
23 1998?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Who did you work for in 1991?
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page 86
1 A. I worked for Muller Roofing for a
2 while. Then I worked for J.P. Fife (phonetic) for
3 a while. Then I went back to J.P. Patty.
4 Q. Who were you working for in 1991?
5 A. Muller Roofing, I believe.
6 Q. You ended your career with J.P.
7 Patty?
8 A. Yes, thats true.
9 Q. So, the safety inspector that advised
10 you about wearing a mask when you encountered
11 asbestos was employed by Muller Roofing; is that
12 correct?
13 A. No. In Patty. I never did any
14 asbestos removal for Muller.
15 Q. But you did — it was 1991 when you
16 became aware that asbestos could be hazardous?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. That was through communications of a
19 safety inspector?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did they tell you how to identify
22 asbestos on a roof?
23 A. I knew how to identify it. I worked
24 with it for years.
25 Q. How did you identify it as opposed to
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page 87
1 another materials that did not contain asbestos?
2 A. You could see the asbestos right in
3 it.
4 Q. In the paper?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Was there any other way other than
7 being able to see the asbestos to be able to
8 determine whether or not it actually contained
9 asbestos, in your mind?
10 A. Well, if you put three pieces of felt
11 here, three different kinds, Ill pick up the one
12 thats asbestos.
13 Q. Based solely on appearance?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Prior to 1991, you were not aware
16 that asbestos could be hazardous?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Did there ever come a time when you
19 were diagnosed with an asbestos-related medical
20 condition?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When?
23 A. May of 1998.
24 Q. Just to step back for a second, prior
25 to 1991, had you ever worn a mask or respirator on
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page 88
1 the job?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. When?
4 A. When I worked for J.P. Patty, when we
5 were ripping asbestos roofs off.
6 Q. Prior to 1991, have you ever worn a
7 mask or respirator on the job?
8 A. No.
9 Q. How did you become aware you had an
10 asbestos-related medical condition in May of 1998?
11 A. Dr. Newman, I went to — first I went
12 for a screening and — with the union. Then I
13 went to Dr. Newman in Toms River.
14 Q. Do you know when you went to the
15 union screening? Would that have been sometime
16 prior to May of 1998?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you recall the doctor that you saw
19 at the union screening?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did you receive any results from that
22 screening in writing?
23 A. Not from the union screening, no.
24 Q. After you went to the screening, how
25 were you advised to see Dr. Newman?
rsmith
page 89
1 A. I was advised through the Union.
2 Q. Through the union?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. The union sent you.
5 Did the union tell you at that point you
6 might have an asbestos-related condition?
7 A. They told me they seen — an x-ray
8 showed something on it, and they sent me down to
9 him to make sure.
10 Q. When you saw Dr. Newman, did he take
11 your medical history?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did he also take your work and
14 employment history?
15 A. Yes, I believe he did.
16 Q. When he asked you those questions,
17 did you respond truthfully and accurately?
18 A. I tried to, yes.
19 Q. What is your understanding of –
20 withdrawn.
21 Did Dr. Newman tell you the results of his
22 examination?
23 A. He just told me there was a spot on
24 my lung that possibly is asbestos.
25 Q. Did he tell you –
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page 90
1 A. Asbestosis.
2 Q. Did he tell you that when you went
3 for your appointment?
4 A. No.
5 Q. When did you learn that?
6 A. He sent me a note.
7 Q. He sent a letter to you?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did Dr. Newman take a chest x-ray
10 in — when you were sent to him?
11 A. Yes. He took a chest x-ray.
12 Q. Did you perform breathing tests?
13 A. Pulmonary function test, yes.
14 Q. Is that the first time you had had a
15 pulmonary function test?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Since you saw Dr. Newman, have you
18 had a pulmonary function test?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. When was the next time after you saw
21 Dr. Newman that you had a pulmonary function test?
22 A. I would say three months after.
23 Q. With who?
24 A. I went to a cardiologist, Dr.
25 Schultz.
rsmith
page 91
1 Q. What is Dr. Schultzs first name?
2 A. Hans, I believe.
3 Q. Do you know where hes located?
4 A. Asbury Park, Monmouth County
5 Cardiology Center.
6 Q. Hes a cardiologist?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did Dr. Schultz tell you the results
9 of the pulmonary function test?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Had you seen Dr. Schultz since –
12 A. I had four or five visits with him.
13 Yes, since that I had it.
14 Q. What were the circumstances of your
15 seeing Dr. Schultz?
16 A. Dr. Newman noticed a rattle in my
17 chest, and he told me I should see a cardiologist.
18 Q. When was the last time you saw Dr.
19 Schultz?
20 A. I would say seven months ago.
21 Q. Between May of 1998 and seven months
22 ago, you saw him approximately five occasions?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. When you saw him, what did he do?
25 A. He made me take tests, stress test,
rsmith
page 92
1 cardiac function test, CAT scan. I think it was a
2 CAT scan.
3 Q. Do you know how many times,
4 approximately, that you were given pulmonary
5 function tests with Dr. Schultz?
6 A. Once.
7 Q. Just the one time?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. He never told you the result?
10 A. No.
11 Q. As of the last visit with Dr.
12 Schultz, what is your status regarding your heart,
13 if anything?
14 A. I just — he told me I had high blood
15 pressure.
16 Q. Has he prescribed any medication for
17 that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What are you taking?
20 A. Norvasc, Anacan (phonetic).
21 Q. Are you still taking those
22 medications?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. As you sit here today, do you have an
25 appointment with Dr. Schultz?
rsmith
page 93
1 A. Hes no longer in practice. He got
2 sick.
3 Q. Do you have a new cardiologist?
4 A. No. Not as of yet anyway.
5 Q. Aside from the pulmonary function
6 test with — withdrawn.
7 Did Dr. Schultz, on any of those five
8 occasions, take chest x-rays?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did he ever tell you the results of
11 those x-rays?
12 A. No.
13 Q. When you saw Dr. Schultz the first
14 time, did you tell him of Dr. Newmans diagnosis?
15 A. Yes. I explained it to him. He
16 asked me why I was there, what happened. I told
17 him just what I told you.
18 Q. Did you tell him about your
19 asbestos-related diagnosis?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did Dr. Schultz ever say anything
22 about that diagnosis?
23 A. No, not really.
24 Q. Since you saw Dr. Newman, have you
25 seen any other physicians other than Dr. Schultz?
rsmith
page 94
1 A. No, I havent.
2 Q. Would Dr. Schultz be your primary
3 care physician essentially?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Have you ever been hospitalized
6 during your lifetime?
7 A. Years ago. I had a sinus operation.
8 Q. Aside from that?
9 A. No.
10 Q. When did you have the sinus
11 operation?
12 A. I believe 18 years old.
13 Q. What exactly was the problem?
14 A. They had to take a bone out of my
15 forehead, right here (indicating).
16 Q. Did that affect your breathing in any
17 way?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Any other hospitalization during your
20 lifetime?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you ever smoke cigarettes?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you ever use any other tobacco
25 products?
rsmith
page 95
1 A. No.
2 Q. As you sit here today, when I said
3 today I mean in the last couple of months, do you
4 have any health-related complaints?
5 A. Just my breathing.
6 Q. What about your breathing?
7 A. Well, I got an inhaler I use that my
8 other doctor prescribed for me.
9 I cant — my wife and I used to walk on
10 the boardwalk or whatever. I cant do that no
11 more. If I do it, take maybe ten steps and sit
12 down.
13 Q. Who prescribed the inhaler?
14 A. Its Comadent (phonetic). I have it
15 in my pocket right now.
16 Q. My question was the name of the
17 physician that prescribed that?
18 A. Choi, Dr. Choi.
19 Q. When was the last time you saw Dr.
20 Choi?
21 A. A month ago.
22 Q. You have seen other doctors other
23 than Dr. Schultz?
24 A. Yes. When he died, I still had the
25 high blood pressure. I went to see him about
rsmith
page 96
1 that. I mean, he didnt die. He went out of
2 practice.
3 Q. Since that time, youve seen Dr.
4 Choi?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Where is Dr. Choi?
7 A. Neptune.
8 Q. What is his first name?
9 A. Don.
10 Q. D-o-n?
11 A. Yes. Donald Choi.
12 Q. C-h-o-i?
13 A. Yes. I think thats it.
14 Q. What type of physician is he?
15 A. Family practitioner.
16 Q. Internist maybe?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. How many times have you seen Dr.
19 Choi?
20 A. Twice.
21 Q. What were your complaints the first
22 time you saw him?
23 A. Actually, I didnt have any
24 complaints. I just wanted to get a general
25 checkup. I told him I had high blood pressure. I
rsmith
page 97
1 was seeing Dr. Schultz.
2 Q. He renewed your prescription?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. At that point did he prescribe the
5 inhaler?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. The name of the medication is?
8 A. Comadent.
9 Q. Do you know how to spell that?
10 A. No, I dont.
11 Q. How many times per day do you take
12 that?
13 A. I take two puffs in the morning, two
14 puffs at noon, and two puffs before I go to bed.
15 And if I need more, I take it.
16 Q. Approximately six times per day or as
17 needs?
18 A. Yes. Less than 12 a day.
19 Q. Did Dr. Choi tell you why he was
20 prescribing that medication?
21 A. Same thing. Rattle in my chest.
22 Q. Im sorry?
23 A. I had a rattle in my chest.
24 Q. A rattle?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 98
1 Q. In your chest?
2 A. Yes. He noticed I wasnt breathing
3 right.
4 Q. Does the inhaler help your breathing?
5 A. Yes, it does.
6 Q. Aside from the medication for the
7 high blood pressure and the inhaler, do you take
8 any other medication on a regular basis?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Aside from Dr. Schultz and Dr. Choi,
11 have you seen any other physicians since you saw
12 Dr. Newman in May of 1998?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did you only see Dr. Newman on that
15 one occasion?
16 A. Thats true.
17 Q. You told me you had problems walking
18 on the boardwalk.
19 When did you first notice that?
20 A. I would say it started — four years
21 ago. Then it got progressively worse and worse
22 and worse.
23 Q. Has either — did either Dr. Schultz
24 or Dr. Choi tell you what caused your breathing
25 problem?
rsmith
page 99
1 A. No.
2 Q. You retired in 1998?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How do you spend your time currently?
5 A. Just sitting around the house,
6 summertime, sit on the porch. Read. Basically
7 not much.
8 Q. Are there any leisure activities you
9 like to perform?
10 A. I used to ride my bicycle a lot. Now
11 I dont do that anymore. I used to like to walk.
12 I dont do that anymore.
13 Q. When you first noticed your breathing
14 problem about four years ago, approximately 1999,
15 2000?
16 A. Yeah, around there.
17 Q. How did you spend your time when you
18 first retired in 1998?
19 A. Played golf, my wife and I went
20 places, bowled.
21 Q. When was the last time you went
22 golfing?
23 A. Got to be a few years, five or six
24 years.
25 Q. Do you travel?
rsmith
page 100
1 A. No.
2 Q. When was the last time you went
3 bowling?
4 A. Around the same.
5 Q. Have you ever been convicted of a
6 felony?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Have you ever filed any lawsuits
9 other than this lawsuit?
10 A. No, not really.
11 Q. Did you ever file a Workmans
12 Compensation claim?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When?
15 A. Had to be — I dont recall. It had
16 to be in the 70s.
17 Q. What was the claim for?
18 A. I got splashed with hot tar.
19 Q. Have you ever heard of a company
20 called Harry H. Levy?
21 A. Excuse me.
22 Q. Have you ever heard of a company
23 called Harry H. Levy?
24 A. I dont know.
25 MR. RONCA: Thats all I have.
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page 101
1 Im sure some of the other attorneys
2 are going to have some follow-up questions for
3 you.
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. DeNARO:
6 Q. My name is Steve DeNaro. I represent
7 some companies. I have some questions for you.
8 Ill try not to take up too much of your time.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Are you familiar with the company
11 known as Peerless Industries, Inc.?
12 A. Ive heard of them. Im not familiar
13 with them.
14 Q. When you say you heard of them?
15 A. I just heard of them.
16 Q. Are you familiar with a company known
17 as Peerless Heater Company?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Would it be fair to say — strike
20 that.
21 Do you associate any products with the
22 name Peerless Heater Company or Peerless
23 Industries, Inc.?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Are you familiar with a company by
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page 102
1 the name of Robert A. Keasbey?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Earlier you talked about while you
4 were up on the roof doing your work, you believe
5 you were exposed to asbestos as a result of other
6 trades doing work inside the building?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I believe you said that you believe
9 you were exposed as a result of dust particles
10 coming through perforations in the roof?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. The perforations in the roof I
13 believe you mentioned were vents and roof hatches?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What I want to know is while you were
16 on the roof, how did you know what was going on
17 inside the building?
18 A. Because we used to go through the
19 building all the time.
20 Q. While you were in the building, you
21 werent on the roof; is that right?
22 A. Well, we seen them.
23 Q. What I want to know, while you were
24 on the roof, how did you know what was going on in
25 the building?
rsmith
page 103
1 A. I didnt know.
2 Q. Are you assuming from what you saw
3 when you walked through the –
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Let me withdraw that.
6 While you were on the build — while you
7 were on the roof and you observed the dust coming
8 through the roof perforations, were you assuming
9 from what you saw while you were on the roof what
10 was going on in the building from what you had
11 already observed in the building?
12 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form
13 of the question.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Can you describe for me the product
16 that you saw the people applying to the elbows of
17 the pipe? What did that look like?
18 A. It looked like a mixture of cake
19 dough.
20 Q. Do you know how that product came
21 packaged?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you know if it came wet or it came
24 dry?
25 A. I believe it came dry.
rsmith
page 104
1 Q. Did they mix it with anything?
2 A. I dont know.
3 Q. Did you ever observe them applying it
4 to the elbows?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. How would they apply it to the elbows
7 of the pipe?
8 A. They took it with their hands and put
9 it around the elbows.
10 Q. After they were done applying it,
11 after they — after they were done applying it to
12 the pipe, do they do anything else with it?
13 A. They smooth it out.
14 Q. Did you ever observe them smoothing
15 it out?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What do they use to smooth it out?
18 A. Their hands.
19 Q. Is this when they were smoothing it
20 out while its still wet?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. After — I would imagine that product
23 dried at some time?
24 A. I guess so, yeah.
25 Q. Did they do anything with it after it
rsmith
page 105
1 dried?
2 A. I dont know.
3 MR. DeNARO: I dont have any more
4 questions. Thank you.
5
6 EXAMINATION
7 BY MS. SCIALABBA:
8 Q. Im Diane Scialabba.
9 Are you familiar with a company by the
10 name of York Sheet Metal?
11 A. No, Im not.
12 Q. Are you familiar with R.D. Supply
13 Company?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Have you ever heard of Passaic Metal
16 Products?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What do you know about Passaic Metal
19 Products?
20 A. They used to deliver materials to us.
21 Q. When you say us, who are you
22 referring to?
23 A. All kinds. Asbestos rolls,
24 everything, metal, asbestos rolls, asbestos
25 cement.
rsmith
page 106
1 Q. My question was, who are you
2 referring to when you said us?
3 A. The company I worked for.
4 Q. Who was the company that you worked
5 for?
6 A. J.P. Patty.
7 Q. When you testified to asbestos rolls,
8 asbestos cement, what question did you think Id
9 asked you?
10 A. I dont know.
11 Q. Did any of your employers have an
12 account with Passaic Metal Products?
13 A. J.P. Patty did.
14 Q. Any other employers?
15 A. Not to my knowledge.
16 Q. Did you ever pick up materials from
17 Passaic Metal Products?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Where are they located?
20 A. In Passaic on — I forget the street.
21 Its been a lot of years. I know they are in
22 Passaic. I forget the street.
23 Q. How many times have you been to
24 Passaic Metal Products?
25 A. Maybe three, four times.
rsmith
page 107
1 Q. On those three or four times, what
2 supplies did you pick up?
3 A. Sometimes I picked up rolls.
4 Sometimes I picked up metal. Different items.
5 Q. What was the name brand or
6 manufacturer of the rolls that you picked up?
7 A. I dont recall right now.
8 Q. Did those rolls contain any asbestos?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. How do you know?
11 A. Some did. Some didnt.
12 Q. How did you know the rolls contained
13 asbestos?
14 A. It was right on the label, asbestos
15 15-pound felt.
16 Q. Was that a manufacturers label?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What did the manufacturers label
19 look like?
20 A. It was a round lining, this big
21 (indicating), went right around the whole roll.
22 Q. Did you say it was round?
23 A. Yeah. It went right around the roll.
24 Q. What did the label say on it?
25 A. Asbestos 15-pound rolls or felt.
rsmith
page 108
1 MS. SCIALABBA: Could you repeat
2 that.
3 (Record read)
4 Q. BY MS. SCIALABBA: When is the first
5 time that you recall Passaic Metal Products
6 supplying materials to your job?
7 A. I really cant recall.
8 Q. Do you recall whether it was before
9 or after 1990?
10 A. It was before 1990, yeah.
11 MS. SCIALABBA: Thanks.
12 A. Maybe on other jobs it was later. I
13 dont know.
14 MR. RONCA: Lets take a break.
15 (A short recess was taken.)
16
17 EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. BRAENDER:
19 Q. Can you hear me from down here?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Good afternoon. My name is Bruce
22 Braender, and I have a few questions for you.
23 Do you recall testifying earlier today
24 about how you used Karnack roof cement?
25 A. Yes.
rsmith
page 109
1 Q. What it looked like?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And how you applied it?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Does that apply to all roofing
6 cements?
7 A. Just about, yes.
8 Q. What would be different about the
9 application of a particular roofing cement?
10 A. Nothing really.
11 Q. Sir, are you familiar with a company
12 by the name of Madsen & Howell?
13 A. No, Im not.
14 Q. Sir, are you familiar with a company
15 by the name of Hercules Chemical Corporation?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How are you familiar with that name,
18 sir?
19 A. We used their products.
20 Q. What kind of products did you use?
21 A. Cement.
22 Q. What type of cement, sir?
23 A. Roof cement.
24 Q. Any other types of cements?
25 A. No, I dont think so.
rsmith
page 110
1 Q. Any other types of products?
2 A. I dont believe we used — no, I
3 dont think so.
4 Q. When you were asked earlier –
5 A. We might have used other products,
6 but I just dont recall.
7 I remember the roof cement, but — we
8 might have use other products, but I just dont
9 recall.
10 Q. You dont recall them at this time?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Is this the same Hercules roof cement
13 you testified about earlier when you were asked if
14 you just generally remember any other roofing
15 cements?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Its not?
18 A. No. I didnt think of it at that
19 time.
20 Q. Excuse me?
21 A. I just didnt think of it then.
22 Q. When you were asked if you could
23 recall the name of any other roofing cements, you
24 named Hercules.
25 A. Is that Hercules that name –
rsmith
page 111
1 MR. HAEFELE: Earlier today other
2 than when — other than when you were naming
3 products at various other sites when the gentleman
4 was initially asking questions, you did mention
5 Hercules.
6 Q. BY MR. BRAENDER: Is that the same
7 Hercules?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Can you tell me how the Hercules roof
10 cement came packaged?
11 A. The same, five-gallon buckets.
12 Q. Do you know what color the buckets
13 were?
14 A. I believe they were white.
15 Q. Did they have any lettering?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you know what color the lettering
18 was?
19 A. Blue, maybe blue, I think. Im not
20 sure.
21 Q. Any logo, pictures, anything else?
22 A. I dont recall.
23 Q. Do you recall any of the words on the
24 Hercules can?
25 A. Just the roof cement, asbestos roof
rsmith
page 112
1 cement.
2 Q. Do you recall the words asbestos
3 roof cement on it?
4 A. Yes. Contains asbestos.
5 Q. Did you ever see a Hercules Chemical
6 Corporation roof cement can that says asbestos
7 free?
8 A. No. Not –
9 Q. How did the Hercules Chemical
10 Corporation roof cement get to your work sites?
11 A. I believe it was brought in by Patty
12 roofing, my employer.
13 Q. Do you remember the first time you
14 used Hercules Chemical Corporation roof cement?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you remember the last time?
17 A. No, I dont.
18 Q. Would you be able to estimate for me
19 the percentage of Hercules Chemical Corporation
20 roof cement you used in relation to all the other
21 roof cements you used in your career?
22 A. Maybe 25 percent.
23 Q. Sir, are you familiar with the name
24 York Corrugated Company?
25 A. No.
rsmith
page 113
1 Q. How about Plainfield Roofing Supply?
2 A. No.
3 Q. How about Safeguard Industrial
4 Supply?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. How are you familiar with that name,
7 sir?
8 A. They make asbestos gloves.
9 Q. Are those asbestos gloves you used
10 during your career?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Can you describe those gloves?
13 A. They were big gloves. Maybe came up
14 to here on you (indicating).
15 Q. Is that halfway between your wrist
16 and elbow?
17 A. Yeah. Right about up to here
18 (indicating).
19 Q. Thats halfway between your wrist and
20 elbow?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were they a mitten type glove or
23 finger?
24 A. Finger type.
25 Q. What color were they?
rsmith
page 114
1 A. White.
2 Q. How do you know they were Safeguard
3 Industrial Supplys gloves?
4 A. It says right on there.
5 Q. Right on where?
6 A. When we had the gloves in the
7 package. It said Safeguard on it.
8 Q. On the package?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What was that package?
11 A. It was given to me by my boss.
12 Q. Did you see the package they came in?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What was that?
15 A. Right on the label it said
16 Safeguard on it.
17 Q. What was that packing material made
18 of?
19 A. It was a thing that held the gloves
20 together, the label.
21 Q. Do you know who supplied those
22 Safeguard Industrial Supply gloves?
23 A. My boss gave them to me.
24 Q. Do you know where he got them from?
25 A. No.
rsmith
page 115
1 Q. Or the company got them from?
2 A. No, I dont. I dont know where they
3 got them from.
4 Q. How do you know those gloves
5 contained asbestos?
6 A. Well, thats what my boss told me. I
7 was handling hot stuff. He said these are
8 asbestos gloves. They will help you.
9 Q. Sir, are you familiar with a company
10 by the name of Tremco?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How are you familiar with a company
13 named Tremco?
14 A. I worked for them.
15 Q. You worked for them?
16 A. I did work for them, yeah. Maybe a
17 week, two I worked for them.
18 Q. Do you remember what decade you did
19 work for Tremco?
20 A. Early 80s.
21 Q. Where is Tremco located?
22 A. Elizabeth, it was. I dont know if
23 they still are.
24 Q. Do you remember any of the work sites
25 you worked at for Tremco?
rsmith
page 116
1 A. Not really.
2 Q. Did they do — what kind of work did
3 they do? I know they did roofing. Was it
4 residential, commercial?
5 A. Commercial.
6 Q. Im sorry. How long did you work for
7 them?
8 A. About a week. Thats all.
9 Q. You believe you were exposed to
10 asbestos when you were working for Tremco?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How?
13 A. We had to take the roofs off. They
14 were asbestos roofs. We used Tremco to put them
15 back.
16 Q. You used Tremco products to put them
17 back?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What kind of Tremco products?
20 A. Fiberglass, fiberglass emulsion,
21 fiberglass felts, and emulsion.
22 Q. Fiberglass is one product?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Felt is another product?
25 A. Yes.
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page 117
1 Q. And then emulsion?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did the fiberglass contain asbestos?
4 A. No. Ripping it off the roofs did.
5 Q. Did the felt contain asbestos?
6 A. Excuse me?
7 Q. You said felt. You said you used
8 felt.
9 A. No. Fiberglass felt they called it.
10 Q. Did the emulsion contain asbestos?
11 A. Not that I know of.
12 Q. So, the exposure was from the
13 rip-offs?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What is this emulsion? How is that
16 used in the roofing process?
17 A. You put the emulsion, then the
18 fiberglass, then the emulsion, then the
19 fiberglass, then they coat the whole thing with
20 emulsion.
21 Q. Do you know what that emulsion is
22 made of?
23 A. No, I dont.
24 Q. Do you know how to spell Tremco?
25 A. T-r-e-m-c-o, I think.
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page 118
1 BY MR. BRAENDER: Thats all I have.
2 Thank you.
3
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. FERREIRA:
6 Q. My name is Marcus Ferreira. And Im
7 with the law firm Kent McBride.
8 Are you familiar with a company called
9 Pulmosan?
10 A. No, Im not.
11
12 EXAMINATION
13 BY MS. HEANEY:
14 Q. My name is Cynthia Heaney, and I have
15 a couple questions for you.
16 Are you familiar with a company called
17 Calon, C-a-l-o-n?
18 A. I dont recall.
19 Q. Are you familiar with a company
20 called Bak-A-Lum?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How are you familiar with that
23 company?
24 A. We use their roofing products.
25 Q. What roof products of theirs did you
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page 119
1 use?
2 A. The roof cement, rolls, I believe,
3 asbestos rolls, thats about all I know of.
4 Q. Can you tell me who manufactured or
5 what the brand name of the roof cement was?
6 A. I cant remember.
7 Q. How about the asbestos rolls?
8 A. I dont remember either.
9 Q. Can you tell me what job site or
10 sites that you used Bak-A-Lum products on?
11 A. I dont recall. It was years ago. I
12 dont recall what sites they were. There were
13 many sites I seen them on.
14 Q. Could you give me any decades?
15 A. Had to be probably in the high 70s
16 to mid 80s.
17 Q. Can you tell me anything else about
18 the Bak-A-Lum products that you used?
19 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to form.
20 A. That they had asbestos.
21 Q. How did you know there was asbestos
22 in them?
23 A. Same thing. I seen it right on the
24 rolls.
25 MS. HEANEY: Thank you. I have no
rsmith
page 120
1 further questions.
2
3
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. LIPARI:
6 Q. Good afternoon. My name is Joseph
7 Lipari with the law firm of Picillo, Caruso,
8 OToole.
9 You testified earlier you used a
10 particular type of roof cement 25 percent of the
11 time.
12 What was the name of that roof cement?
13 A. Hercules.
14 MR. HAEFELE: He said approximately.
15 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Approximately. Would
16 it then be fair to say you used Karnack cement the
17 remaining 75 percent of the time?
18 MR. HAEFELE: Objection. That
19 includes a false statement of what his testimony
20 was. He didnt testify to that.
21 MR. LIPARI: Thats the question.
22 MR. HAEFELE: Thats not the
23 question. Your question is if you did this, is
24 your testimony that the rest of the time it was
25 that. Thats not what he said.
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page 121
1 MR. LIPARI: Ill rephrase the
2 question.
3 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Did you use Karnack
4 cement the remaining 75 percent of the time?
5 A. I really dont –
6 Q. Approximately?
7 A. I really couldnt say.
8 Q. If you could approximate the
9 percentage, could you do so?
10 A. I would say we used more Karnack than
11 Hercules.
12 Q. You were able to quantify then that
13 you used Hercules approximately 25 percent of the
14 time. Would you be able to quantify approximately
15 how much you used the Karnack product?
16 MR. HAEFELE: Without guessing.
17 A. 75 percent. The other was 25.
18 Thats approximately.
19 MR. HAEFELE: What hes asking you,
20 are these the only two youve ever used?
21 MR. LIPARI: Thats not the question.
22 MR. HAEFELE: Thats the assumption
23 you have with your question. Isnt that the
24 assumption you had with your question? Are they
25 the only two hes ever used?
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1 MR. LIPARI: Thats not the question,
2 and that wasnt the assumption I made. That
3 wasnt inherent in the question.
4 MR. HAEFELE: It was inherent in the
5 question. It was inherent in the question
6 absolutely. That was inherent in your very first
7 question you asked the gentleman.
8 MR. LIPARI: Ill rephrase the
9 question. If you would read that back, we can do
10 that.
11 MR. HAEFELE: Do you want to run with
12 the assumption or clear it up at the end, we can
13 do that, sit here the rest of the day trying to
14 clarify things you create as false assumptions in
15 the deposition. We can be done a lot later than
16 we could be, rather than you trying to fool the
17 gentleman when youre trying to ask him something
18 different. How do you want to do it?
19 Do you want me to clear things up
20 later on in the day, then spend a lot more time
21 here?
22 MR. LIPARI: The question was put to
23 Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith answered the question. Im
24 going to move on to ask my next question.
25 MR. HAEFELE: Thats fine. I can
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1 clear it up later on.
2 MR. LIPARI: Youre entitled to do
3 that.
4 MR. HAEFELE: Thats why these
5 depositions take so long, because of people like
6 you.
7 BY MR. LIPARI: Could you repeat Mr.
8 Smiths last answer, please? Could you read that
9 back.
10 MR. HAEFELE: Before you do that, why
11 dont you step out of the room for a minute.
12 Off the record.
13 (Discussion held off the record)
14 MR. LIPARI: Were back on the
15 record.
16 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: When you were asked
17 earlier if you recalled any other roofing cement
18 products or manufacturers, you mentioned the word
19 Miracle.
20 Do you associate the word Miracle with
21 any exposure to asbestos?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, when you were asked that
24 question, when you responded, was that just a
25 general recollection of the product, or do you
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1 have any specific recollection of a product or
2 manufacturer with the word Miracle?
3 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form
4 of the question.
5 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Do you understand the
6 question?
7 A. Not really.
8 Q. When you answered earlier you used
9 the word Miracle, was that just a general
10 recollection of the word Miracle, or do you have
11 a specific recollection of working with a product?
12 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form
13 of the question. I think he responded to the
14 question.
15 MR. DeNARO: Thats what I heard.
16 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Do you understand it
17 now, or would you like me to rephrase it?
18 MR. HAEFELE: Maybe you can rephrase
19 it, instead of repeating it.
20 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Do you understand the
21 question?
22 A. Yes.
23 MR. HAEFELE: You do understand now?
24 THE WITNESS: I dont understand it.
25 MR. HAEFELE: I want you to answer
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1 the question if you understand it. If you dont,
2 dont answer it.
3 THE WITNESS: I dont.
4 Q. BY MR. LIPARI: Do you recall working
5 with a product with a word Miracle in the
6 product?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Now, do you believe you worked with a
9 product called Miracle?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you believe that product contained
12 asbestos?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you know what type of product that
15 was?
16 A. It was cement. And they also had
17 asbestos rolls.
18 Q. Do you know which sites you worked on
19 when you utilized these products?
20 A. I dont recall.
21 Q. Did you work personally with the roof
22 cement?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you work personally with these
25 roofing rolls?
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1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Approximately how many times?
3 A. I couldnt really say. A number of
4 times. I couldnt really say.
5 Q. Do you have a specific recollection
6 of working with any of these products that you
7 mentioned?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you recall which sites?
10 A. I dont recall the sites.
11 Q. Do you recall the decade?
12 A. What was that?
13 Q. Do you recall the decade you worked
14 with either of these products?
15 A. I would say early 80s.
16 Q. Now, the roofing cement that you
17 mentioned, what type of cement was it?
18 A. It was the same Karnack. It had
19 asbestos in it.
20 Q. How do you know it had asbestos in
21 it?
22 A. It said it on the cans.
23 Q. Can you describe these cans?
24 A. Same thing, five-gallon buckets.
25 Q. Are they cans or buckets?
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1 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the form
2 of the question.
3 A. Cans.
4 Q. Were they aluminum cans?
5 A. No.
6 Q. What were they made of?
7 A. Steel.
8 Q. Was the word Miracle written on
9 these cans?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you recall the lettering?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do you recall the type of lettering
14 that was on these cans?
15 A. Not really.
16 Q. Do you recall any logos or pictures,
17 anything like that?
18 A. No.
19 Q. What about the product itself? What
20 did it look like?
21 A. The cement, youre talking about?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. It was black. It was like what I
24 described to you before. It was like peanut
25 butter, a little heavier.
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1 Q. What type of applications was this
2 product used for?
3 A. The cement?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. Flashing.
6 Q. Anything else.
7 A. Just flashing, stripping metal,
8 asbestos strips on the metal, outside metal.
9 Q. You believe you only worked with this
10 product in the early 1980s?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, how about the roofing rolls that
13 you associate with the word Miracle.
14 Do you believe they contained asbestos?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Do you have any recollection of
17 particular sites that you used roofing rolls with
18 the word Miracle?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you recall a decade –
21 A. The same.
22 Q. — when you used this product?
23 A. The same.
24 Q. Early 1980s?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Now, what led you or leads you to
2 believe that this particular product, the roofing
3 rolls, contained asbestos?
4 A. It said it on the labels.
5 Q. What did it say?
6 A. It says asbestos 15-pound felt.
7 Q. Could you be a little more specific
8 about describing the rolls themselves? Could you
9 give me any specifics.
10 A. They are 36 inches wide, 432 square
11 feet in a roll.
12 Q. What did the label look like?
13 A. The same thing, about that wide
14 (indicating), band wrapped around the whole –
15 Q. When you say that wide?
16 A. Seven, eight inches.
17 Q. What did it say on the label itself?
18 A. Miracle, 15-pound felt, asbestos
19 felt.
20 Q. Asbestos felt?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What color was the felt?
23 A. Black.
24 Q. Was all — withdrawn.
25 Were all roofing rolls black in color?
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1 A. If its felt, yes.
2 Q. When was the last time you believe
3 that you worked with a roofing roll manufactured
4 by Miracle or called Miracle?
5 A. I would say 1983.
6 Q. That was the last time?
7 A. 83, 84.
8 Q. How about the first time?
9 A. 1980.
10 Q. Approximately how many times did you
11 work with this particular roofing roll?
12 A. I dont have any idea. Numerous
13 times. I dont remember how many times.
14 Q. Again, you dont recall any sites
15 or –
16 A. No.
17 Q. Let me ask you would there be any
18 reason why this particular roofing roll would be
19 used as opposed to another roofing roll being
20 used?
21 A. Most of the time we use asbestos when
22 it was a smooth roof. Coated the top of it with
23 asphalt.
24 Q. Were you working for — who was your
25 employer?
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1 A. J.P. Patty.
2 Q. In the early 1980s, at this time?
3 A. J.P. Patty.
4 MR. LIPARI: I have nothing further.
5 Thank you.
6
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. SWAIN:
9 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Smith. My name
10 is Robert Swain. Im with the law firm Swain &
11 Westreich and I represent a company named Van
12 Packer Products Company.
13 Are you familiar with that company?
14 A. No.
15 Q. During the 40 years you worked with
16 J.P. Patty and other companies you described, did
17 they do any residential or was it commercial?
18 A. Just commercial and industrial.
19 Q. Did you yourself during this period
20 of time install any residential roofs?
21 A. No.
22 MR. SWAIN: Thats all I have. Thank
23 you.
24
25 EXAMINATION
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1 BY MS. ROSALES:
2 Q. My name is Geraldine Rosales. I
3 represent one of the defendants in this case. I
4 have a few questions for you.
5 My first is really just to clarify. I
6 would like to talk specific about Bird products
7 you worked with during the course of your career.
8 I believe you mentioned the rolled paper?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. By Bird?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And flashing by Bird?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Are those the same thing, or are they
15 two different products?
16 A. Two different products.
17 Q. Could you describe the difference to
18 me?
19 You explained how the flashing was applied
20 to walls. Tell me the difference between the two?
21 A. When you put the roll down, you put
22 the layer of felt, you mop a layer of hot tar,
23 then another layer of felt. If you put three, you
24 put three pieces. If its four, you put four.
25 Q. You said felt?
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1 A. 15-pound.
2 Q. The roll paper or felt and the
3 flashing?
4 A. Yes, two products.
5 Q. I asked you how do they — how are
6 they different. Not just how they are applied.
7 A. How is what different?
8 Q. The roll paper or the felt from the
9 flashing.
10 A. The roll paper and felt is the same.
11 Q. Well call it paper.
12 A. Right.
13 Q. The paper as compared to the
14 flashing, do they look different?
15 A. No. Same thing.
16 MR. HAEFELE: She wants you to
17 distinguish the roll paper and felt as one thing
18 versus the flashing, right?
19 MS. ROSALES: Yes.
20 MR. HAEFELE: Is flashing different
21 from the paper or felt?
22 THE WITNESS: No. We use flashing
23 with the same felt. And we use roof cement to
24 stick the felt.
25 Q. BY MS. ROSALES: When youre applying
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1 or youre installing the roll paper, you put that
2 on — you said one layer of felt, then hot tar,
3 and however many layers are called for?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. When youre putting it on walls, its
6 called flashing. And you put a layer of the
7 paper, then you use the cement –
8 A. You put the roof cement first. Then
9 the layer of paper. Then the roof cement again.
10 Q. With the paper, when youre laying
11 this flat on the roof, you use tar.
12 When youre putting it on the walls you
13 use the cement?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. But the actual Bird product youre
16 applying, whether on the wall or roof, is the same
17 thing?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How big is the roll of paper?
20 A. I already said –
21 Q. That was a different product.
22 A. Its the same. 36 inches wide, 432
23 square feet long.
24 Q. Do you have to cut the roofing paper
25 before –
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1 A. Yes, on certain things, yes. You
2 have to cut it. You have to cut it around curves
3 and pipe flanges.
4 Q. What do you used to cut the roofing
5 paper?
6 A. Sellotech (phonetic) knife.
7 Q. Does that create any dust?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. We identified two Bird products.
10 Weve got the roll paper — actually, its one of
11 the — I corrected it. Its one.
12 You testified earlier when you were
13 questioned by the first attorney that on some of
14 the sites you named in your Answers to
15 Interrogatories you used the Bird paper that you
16 believe had asbestos in it; is that correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. I want to know why do you think or
19 why do you know that the Bird products had
20 asbestos?
21 A. First of all, its on the labels.
22 Q. Could you describe the label to me?
23 A. Bird, 15-pound asbestos felt.
24 Q. Did you ever see a label that said
25 Bird & Sons?
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1 A. I might have. Im not sure.
2 Q. Do you remember what color the label
3 was?
4 A. No, I dont.
5 Q. How about the lettering? Do you
6 remember what color that was?
7 A. I think it was — I think it was
8 black. Im not sure.
9 Q. When the paper was new, how was it
10 packaged before you used it? What kind of
11 packaging did it have on it?
12 A. Actually, it came on pallets, 20 or
13 25 to a pallet.
14 Q. Were the rolls wrapped in anything,
15 plastic or anything?
16 A. They had a band around them.
17 Q. All that was on them was a band
18 around the roll and a label?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Was the label actually on the paper
21 that you were going to apply?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You were asked before about some of
24 the specific job sites that you named in your
25 Answers to Interrogatories. And you were asked
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1 about how you believe you were exposed to asbestos
2 at those sites. Again, you named Bird in a few.
3 Then you were asked who supplied those
4 products that had asbestos in them. You named
5 Bird as a supplier of Bird asbestos-containing
6 products, if I heard you correctly, at
7 Hoffman-LaRoche in Clifton and Merck in Rahway?
8 A. That could be right.
9 Q. Did you ever actually see Bird
10 employees supply asbestos-containing products to
11 those two sites?
12 A. I seen a truck come in with a truck
13 driver. Thats it.
14 Q. Do you remember what the truck looked
15 like?
16 A. No, I cant recall.
17 Q. Do you remember the color?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you remember what type of truck it
20 was?
21 A. It was usually low flat bed. If it
22 was a big job, we getting a lot of rolls, it
23 wasnt. It was a rack body truck.
24 Q. Did you ever unload any of the Bird
25 trucks yourself?
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1 A. Sometimes.
2 Q. Do you recall what sites you were at
3 when you personally unloaded the Bird trucks?
4 A. Not really.
5 Q. Well, you mentioned that you saw the
6 Bird trucks at Hoffman-LaRoche in Clifton and
7 Merck in Rahway.
8 Did you unload –
9 A. I might have unloaded one or two of
10 them.
11 Q. At one or both sites or which one?
12 A. Maybe at both of them.
13 Q. Can you think of any other sites over
14 the course of your career where you saw Bird
15 supply products?
16 A. No. It could have been a lot of
17 them. Im just talking about the ones I can
18 remember.
19 Q. Did you personally ever go to the
20 Bird supply house?
21 A. No, I didnt.
22 Q. Are you aware that Bird manufactured
23 some materials that contained asbestos and some
24 that did not contain asbestos?
25 A. No. I guess they did, but I wasnt
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1 aware of it.
2 Q. So, if I asked you if you ever worked
3 with any Bird products that did not contain
4 asbestos, would you be able to answer that?
5 MR. HAEFELE: Objection to form.
6 A. I dont think so.
7 Q. You named a few other brands of
8 roofing paper and flashing that you used on your
9 various job sites. I believe you named Barrett
10 and Carey, if I heard you properly.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Are there any other brands of roofing
13 paper with asbestos that you ever worked with?
14 A. Flintkote. I dont know. I cant
15 remember.
16 Q. Thats fine.
17 MR. HAEFELE: He did name Flintkote
18 on three sites earlier.
19 Q. BY MS. ROSALES: Did you ever work
20 with any roofing materials by those three
21 manufacturers, Barrett, Carey and Flintkote, that
22 did not contain asbestos?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Which ones?
25 A. Well, only used the asbestos on
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1 asbestos jobs that called for it. Whatever the
2 specs were. The specs called –
3 MR. HAEFELE: Listen to the question.
4 Q. BY MS. ROSALES: Ill do it again.
5 Now were not talking about Bird. Were
6 talking about Barrett, Carey and Flintkote roofing
7 paper.
8 Did you ever work with any of those
9 products that did not contain asbestos?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You said it depended on the specs of
12 the job?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When would you use asbestos products
15 versus non-asbestos products?
16 A. Mostly on all smooth roofs.
17 Q. Of all the roofing products that
18 youve worked with over the span of your career,
19 maybe you can do this or not, could you give me a
20 rough percentage of how many — how much was Bird
21 roofing material and how much was the other
22 companies?
23 A. I really couldnt give you any.
24 Q. Would you be able to say youve used
25 more Bird like more frequently at more jobs in the
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1 beginning of your career or in the middle or
2 closer to retirement or was it about the same
3 throughout?
4 A. I would say the start of my career.
5 Q. You used more Bird at the start of
6 your career?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What are we talking about, 50s and
9 60s?
10 A. From 50s to 70s, 80s, 80s, say.
11 Q. I know you said you didnt know
12 whether or not Bird ever made roofing paper that
13 didnt have asbestos, but that other companies
14 did.
15 Are you aware of any difference in price
16 between roofing paper with asbestos and roofing
17 paper without asbestos?
18 A. No, Im not.
19 MS. ROSALES: Thats all I have.
20 Thank you.
21
22 EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. SYDLAR:
24 Q. My name is John Sydlar, and I have a
25 few questions for you.
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1 Are you familiar with Allied Building
2 Products Corporation?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How are you familiar with them?
5 A. They delivered a lot of material to
6 the job sites.
7 Q. How do you know they delivered?
8 A. I know the trucks.
9 Q. Did you ever unload the trucks?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Do you know what type of trucks they
12 were?
13 A. I would say flat beds. If we had a
14 lot of material coming, they would use flat beds.
15 They would use rack bodies.
16 Q. Did you notice any writing on the
17 trucks?
18 A. Yes. It said Allied on it.
19 Q. Do you know where it said Allied?
20 A. On the doors.
21 Q. Did it say anything else on the door?
22 A. Allied Roofing Supply. Red and white
23 trucks with a triangle on it, I think.
24 Q. Did you notice any other colors?
25 A. No, not really.
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1 Q. Do you know what type of products
2 that were on those trucks?
3 A. Rolls.
4 Q. When you say rolls, what do you mean?
5 A. Asbestos rolls.
6 Q. Any other products?
7 A. Roof cement. They delivered
8 insulation to us, screws, plates.
9 Q. Did you personally use all these
10 products?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you use these products outdoors?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you ever use the products
15 indoors?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did any of these products contain
18 asbestos?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you recall which ones?
21 A. The rolls, the cement. Thats it.
22 Q. Did you ever place any orders with
23 Allied?
24 A. I didnt, no.
25 Q. Did you ever pick up any of the
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1 products at Allied?
2 A. Sometimes I picked up products, yes.
3 Q. Do you know where Allied is located?
4 A. On Route 17 and East Brunswick.
5 Q. Do you remember any dates that you
6 actually went to Allied?
7 A. No, I cant recall.
8 Q. Any specific years or decades?
9 A. I went there for small stuff, plates
10 or whatever.
11 Q. Not too often?
12 A. Not too often.
13 MR. SYDLAR: I dont have any further
14 questions. Thank you.
15
16 EXAMINATION
17 BY MS. ROWE:
18 Q. Hi, Mr. Smith. My name is Christina
19 Rowe. And I represent Roofers Supply Company.
20 Are you familiar with that name?
21 A. Yes, I am.
22 Q. How are you familiar with that name?
23 A. They delivered stuff to us that we
24 used.
25 Q. Do you remember which site they made
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1 deliveries to?
2 A. I dont recall. Numerous sites. We
3 did a lot of business with them.
4 Q. Do you remember what decade they made
5 deliveries to the sites where you were working?
6 A. I would say from the 70s to middle
7 80s.
8 Q. Do you believe they delivered
9 materials that contained asbestos?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What materials specifically.
12 A. Rolls, roof cement.
13 Q. Do you know the manufacturers of the
14 rolls?
15 A. There was a few of them they
16 delivered.
17 Q. Can you recall any of them?
18 A. Flintkote, Carey, Karnack roof
19 cement. There must have been others, but I cant
20 remember any more.
21 Q. Can you describe the Roofers Supply
22 truck?
23 A. No, not really.
24 Q. Did you ever unload a Roofers Supply
25 truck?
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1 A. No, I dont think I ever unloaded one
2 of those.
3 Q. Have you ever been to Roofers Supply,
4 Inc.?
5 A. No.
6 MS. ROWE: Thats all the questions I
7 have.
8
9 EXAMINATION
10 BY MS. LYONS:
11 Q. My name is Patti Lyons.
12 Sir, is your first wife financially
13 dependent on you in any way?
14 A. No.
15 Q. What is your current income?
16 A. My pensions, little over — close to
17 $30,000.
18 Q. A year?
19 A. Thats my Social Security and my
20 pension.
21 Q. Combined?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How much do you get from Social
24 Security a month?
25 A. $1,046 — 49. Im sorry.
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1 Q. On a monthly basis, how much do you
2 get from your pension?
3 A. I get $1,550.
4 Q. Have you ever experienced muscle pain
5 or weakness in your joints?
6 A. Yes. Occasionally.
7 Q. Do you report that to any of your
8 physicians?
9 A. I believe I did.
10 Q. Do you know to whom you reported that
11 to?
12 A. Not really. I never brought it up to
13 them, to tell you the truth.
14 Q. Does that interfere with your ability
15 to walk or play golf?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Sir, earlier you testified about a
18 company named Standard Roofing.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you recall that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. That was in association with four
23 work sites, which well cover briefly.
24 Did J.P. Patty have an account with
25 Standard Roofing?
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1 A. I believe they did. I cant be sure.
2 Q. Have you ever been to the Standard
3 Roofing facility?
4 A. I think I was there once.
5 Q. Youre not sure?
6 A. No, Im not sure.
7 Q. Do you know where they are located?
8 A. I believe there is one in Eatontown.
9 Q. Is there another facility you may
10 have –
11 A. No. There might be, but I dont
12 recall any.
13 Q. Do you remember ever unloading a
14 Standard Roofing vehicle?
15 A. No, I dont recall unloading one.
16 Q. Are you able to describe to me in any
17 way what the Standard Roofing vehicle looked like?
18 A. It was a rack body truck and
19 trailer — what do you call it now.
20 Q. Are these two different versions?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Was the name Standard Roofing on
23 the vehicle?
24 A. Yes, it was.
25 Q. Where on the vehicles was it located?
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1 A. On the doors.
2 Q. Do you remember the color it was, the
3 vehicle?
4 A. I believe it was light yellow.
5 Q. When you worked at American –
6 American Can in Jersey City, I believe you
7 testified that was some time in the 1970s. Is
8 that correct?
9 A. Yes. I think so.
10 Q. You did a hot tar roof involving new
11 construction?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How long were you at American Can?
14 A. A couple weeks, a few weeks.
15 Q. Two to three weeks?
16 A. Something like that.
17 Q. You mentioned that Standard Roofing
18 was a supplier to that work site, as well as a
19 company by the name of Bradco?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Were those the only suppliers you saw
22 in that two- to three-week period in the 1970s?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you sign any invoices for
25 Standard Roofing products?
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1 A. I dont recall.
2 Q. Sometimes you did sign invoices?
3 A. I dont recall if I did with that
4 one.
5 Q. Were talking about American Can?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You dont remember if you signed
8 invoices?
9 A. No, I dont recall if I did or
10 didnt.
11 Q. Do you know what products they
12 deliver to American Can?
13 A. Yes. Roll and roof cement.
14 Q. Anything else?
15 A. They delivered insulation.
16 Q. Anything else?
17 A. No, I dont think so.
18 Q. Who manufactured the rolls that were
19 delivered by Standard Roofing to American Can?
20 A. Im leery here.
21 Q. Youre getting tired?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you remember who manufactured the
24 cement?
25 A. Karnack.
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1 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
2 insulation supplied by Standard Roofing to
3 American Can?
4 A. No, I dont.
5 Q. You testified that Standard Roofing
6 supplied to a work site, Ford Motor in Mahwah?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Correct me if Im wrong. You worked
9 there in the late 50s for approximately a month?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Was Standard Roofing the only
12 supplier to that work site?
13 A. I cant recall.
14 Q. Do you know how many times you saw
15 Standard Roofing during that four-month period?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you recall signing any invoices at
18 that work site pertaining to Standard Roofing
19 supplies?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Do you know what products they
22 supplied to Ford Motor?
23 A. The same as usual, rolls, roof
24 cement, insulation.
25 Q. Do you know any of the manufacturers
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1 of those products?
2 A. I cant think now.
3 Q. You say –
4 A. I think it might have been Bird.
5 Q. Manufactured the rolls, roof cement?
6 A. Rolls. Karnack manufactured the roof
7 cement.
8 Q. You also testified while working at
9 Johnson & Johnson in New Brunswick in the late
10 70s for about two and a half months Standard
11 Roofing was a supplier to that site.
12 Do you recall that testimony?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Was Standard Roofing the only
15 supplier to that site or were there others?
16 A. To my knowledge, just Standard
17 Roofing.
18 Q. Do you recall the number of times you
19 saw them during that two-and-a-half-month period
20 in the late 70s at Johnson & Johnson?
21 A. Maybe three times.
22 Q. Did you ever sign invoices pertaining
23 to Standard Roofing supplies to that site?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Do you recall what they supplied to
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1 Johnson & Johnson in New Brunswick?
2 A. Just like rolls, roof cement, same,
3 insulation.
4 Q. Do you know who manufactured the
5 rolls?
6 A. I dont remember now.
7 Q. Do you recall who manufactured the
8 roof cement?
9 A. That was Karnack.
10 Q. Do you recall who manufactured the
11 insulation that was manufactured to J & J?
12 A. No.
13 Q. The last site you mentioned
14 pertaining to Standard Roofing was the Newark
15 Airport?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. For clarification, were you there one
18 year or were you there over a year?
19 A. I was there one year.
20 Q. That involves the work on the A, B,
21 and C terminals and the cargo terminals?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did Standard Roofing — was Standard
24 Roofing the only supplier to that work site?
25 A. I believe so.
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1 Q. Do you recall how many times you saw
2 them during that one-year period?
3 A. I dont remember the number of times.
4 Q. Did you ever have occasion to sign
5 any invoices pertaining to –
6 A. No, not there.
7 Q. For the work at the Newark Airport,
8 do you recall what products specifically were
9 supplied by Standard Roofing to the Newark
10 Airport?
11 A. Asbestos felts, rolls.
12 Q. Anything else?
13 A. Roof cement, Karnack.
14 Q. Karnack roof cement?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Any other products besides the felt
17 rolls and the cement?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you know who manufactured the felt
20 rolls supplied to the Newark Airport?
21 A. I dont remember.
22 MS. LYONS: Thats all the question I
23 have. Thank you.
24
25 EXAMINATION
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1 BY MR. HAEFELE:
2 Q. Mr. Smith, my name is Robert Haefele.
3 Im one of the attorneys at Wilentz, Goldman &
4 Spitzer, the firm that represents you.
5 Im showing you a document. Its your
6 Answers to Interrogatories.
7 Can you tell us, did you put these answers
8 together?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Looking at the last page, is that
11 your signature, sir?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. Did you understand that when you
14 signed that you were saying you were answering the
15 questions in here to the best of your knowledge?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you understand you were — when
18 you signed this you were aware of the statement,
19 if any of the foregoing statements made by me are
20 willfully false, youre subject to punishment?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Were going to page 4. Were not.
23 Page 5. Actually, go back to page 4, bottom of
24 page 4.
25 I call your attention to the last
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1 paragraph. Can you read that to yourself?
2 (Witness complying)
3 Q. BY MR. HAEFELE: One of the companies
4 you identified there is a company called Arzee.
5 Ealier today you were asked about a company by the
6 name of Arzee. Are these the same company?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you remember the name Arzee or
9 not?
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. Can you tell us what kind of company
12 Arzee is?
13 A. They send the trucks on the site, I
14 cant think of the job sites I worked with it.
15 Q. Did they supply asbestos products to
16 the sites the way the other companies did
17 identified today?
18 A. Yes, they did.
19 MR. HAEFELE: Is it Lipari?
20 MR. LIPARI: Yes.
21 Q. BY MR. HAEFELE: Earlier today Mr.
22 Lipari was asking you questions, and he asked you
23 questions in particular where you gave some
24 percentages dividing up some things, saying
25 something was 25 percent and something was 75
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1 percent.
2 MR. LIPARI: Objection to form.
3 MR. HAEFELE: Ill be happy to hear
4 your position about your objection to form, even
5 though you havent heard the rest of the question.
6 MR. LIPARI: Mischaracterizing.
7 If I cut you off in the middle, you
8 can proceed.
9 MR. HAEFELE: Ill fix it.
10 Q. BY MR. HAEFELE: Early you were asked
11 a question and you have some percentages saying
12 something was 25 and something else was 75
13 percent.
14 MR. LIPARI: Objection to form. Its
15 on the record, the question I asked.
16 MR. HAEFELE: I have no problem with
17 your objection. Im trying to clarify, so I can
18 fix it. Thats all.
19 Im asking you to help me fix it.
20 MR. LIPARI: Why dont you finish the
21 rest of the question, and well see if its
22 accurate.
23 Q. BY MR. HAEFELE: Earlier today you
24 gave some percentages when Mr. Lipari was asking
25 you some questions.
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1 Do you recall giving some answers that
2 gave percentages when you were answering his
3 questions?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Isnt it true that there are a number
6 of brands of cements that you are familiar with –
7 strike that.
8 Let me ask the question a different way.
9 Are the only brands of cement that you
10 know the brands of cement named Karnack and
11 Hercules, or are there other brands of cements as
12 well?
13 A. There are other brands.
14 Q. It couldnt possible be the case,
15 isnt it true, that the total — that you know
16 Karnack was 75 percent of the cement that you used
17 and Hercules was 25 percent? Isnt that correct?
18 A. Thats right.
19 Q. You used other cements other than
20 Karnack and Hercules?
21 A. Thats correct.
22 Q. Other cements youve identified is
23 the Miracle product we talked about earlier?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR. HAEFELE: Thats all I have.
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1 Let me ask one more follow-up
2 question.
3 Q. BY MR. HAEFELE: So, if you were to
4 consider all the types of cements, you would have
5 given a different percentage breakdown?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. When you answered the question, were
8 you wrongly giving percentages between Hercules
9 and Karnack?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. HAEFELE: Thats fine. Were
12 done.
13 (Ending time: 5:15 p.m.)
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 REPORTERS CERTIFICATE
2
3 I, JILL A. PRAML-BUSSANICH, CSR No.
4 XI01807, Certified Shorthand Reporter, certify;
5 That the foregoing proceedings were taken
6 before me at the time and place therein set forth,
7 at which time the witness was put under oath by
8 me;
9 That the testimony of the witness and all
10 objections made at the time of the examination
11 were recorded stenographically by me and were
12 thereafter transcribed;
13 That the foregoing is a true and correct
14 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken.
15 I further certify that I am not a relative
16 or employee of any attorney or of any of the
17 parties, nor financially interested in the action.
18 I declare under penalty of perjury under
19 the laws of New Jersey that the foregoing is true
20 and correct.
21 Dated this 8th day of May, 2003.
22
23 ________________________________
JILL A. PRAML-BUSSANICH,
24 CSR NO. XI01807
