Mesothelioma Found in Workers at Public Service (PSE&G) in New Jersey

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION:MIDDLESEX COUNTY
DOCKET NO. L-2148-94
NICHOLAS KATSANIS andANNA KATSANIS, his wife,
VIDEO Plaintiffs DEPOSITION UNDER
ORAL EXAMINATION vs OF
NICHOLAS KATSANISABB LUMMUS CREST INC.,
et al.,
Defendants______________________________
TRANSCRIPT of the deposition of the witness,
called for Oral Examination in the above-captioned
matter, said deposition being taken pursuant to
Superior Court Rules of Practice and Procedure by and
before MIRIAM ALFANO, a Notary Public and Certified
Shorthand Reporter of the State of New Jersey, at the
Offices of WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQS., 90
Woodbridge Center Drive, Woodbridge, New Jersey, on
Friday, April 8, 1994, commencing at approximately
10:15 in the forenoon.

BRODY & GEISER
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS

A P P E A R A N C E S:
WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQS.BY: ROBERT T. HAEFELE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
PICILLO & CARUSO, ESQS.BY: KEVIN OTOOLE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, A.P. Green, Armstrong,Flexitallic, GAF, Quigley, Turner & Newall and ABB
Lummus
OZZARD WHARTON, ESQS.BY: ALAN GRANT, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Porter Hayden
McCARTER & ENGLISH, ESQS.BY: JOHN C. McGUIRE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, AC&S
TUCKER, BIEGEL & GOLDSTEIN, ESQS.BY: JOHN BONVENTRE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Owens-Corning Fiberglas
RICHARD A. DeMICHELE, ESQ.Attorney for Defendant, Babcock & Wilcox
GARRITY, GRAHAM & FAVETTA, ESQS.
BY: ANTHONY J. MARINO, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, United Conveyor Corp.
McGIVNEY & UNTRACHT, ESQS.
BY: GARY H. UNTRACHT, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Elizabeth Hardware
COLEMAN & DEMBER, ESQS.
BY: W. BARRY RANK, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Rock Wool
POLLOCK, MONTGOMERY & CHAPIN, ESQS.
BY: PETER CIPPARULO III, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, J.H. France
CLEMENTE, DICKSON & MUELLER, ESQS.
BY: WILLIAM F. MUELLER, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Durabla Manufacturing

A P P E A R A N C E S: (Contd)
KELLY, McLAUGHLIN & FOSTER, ESQS.BY: TERANCE P. KENNEDY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Riley Stoker
CHASAN, LEYNER, TARRANT & LAMPARELLO, ESQS.BY: KIM ONSDORFF, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Robert A. Keasbey
ENRIGHT, LENNEY & McGRATH, ESQS.BY: MICHAEL McGRATH, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, State Insulation
HARWOOD LLOYD, ESQS.BY: DONALD M. BARONE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Janos Industrial Insulation
HOAGLAND, LONGO, MORAN, DUNST & DOUKAS, ESQS.BY: MARC S. GAFFREY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Heat Exchanger Services
DONINGTON, KARCHER, SALMOND, RONAN & RAINONE, ESQS.BY: MATTHEW E. PRZYWOZNY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Safeguard Industrial
MATTSON, MADDEN & POLITO, ESQS.BY: RAYMOND S. GURAK, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Cleaver Brooks
SLIMM & GOLDBERG, ESQS.BY: DAWN DEZII, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, United Engineers
NOWELL, AMOROSO & MATTIA, ESQS.BY: LINDA DUNNE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, E & B Mill Supply andIngersoll-Rand
CHAZEN & CHAZEN, ESQS.
BY: DAVID K. CHAZEN, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Global Management
WATERS, McPHERSON, McNEILL, ESQS.
BY: JOHN OSHAUGHNESSY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, Anchor Packing and Garlock

A P P E A R A N C E S: (Contd)
CARTON, WITT, ARVANITIS & BARISCILLO, ESQS.BY: H. FRANK CARPENTIER, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Flintkote
GOLDSTEIN, TILL & LITE, ESQS.BY: AMY M. RIEL, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Rapid American
MAGEE & PAGANO, ESQS.BY: THOMAS ISHERWOOD, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Asbestospray

A L S O P R E S E N T:
CERTIFIED VIDEO PRODUCTIONS, INC.132 Franklin Corner Road
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648GLENN REITZEL, Videographer
LEE AHRENS, Videographer

 I N D E X
WITNESS NAME PAGE NO.
NICHOLAS KATSANIS
Direct by Mr. Haefele 6 Cross by Mr. OToole 75
Cross by Mr. OShaughnessy 91

 N I C H O L A S G. K A T S A N I S,
555 23rd Avenue, Vero Beach, Florida,
32961, called as a witness, having been
first duly sworn according to law,
testifies as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HAEFELE:

Q Good morning, Mr. Katsanis. As you know,
were here on the record for your testimony in this
videotape so that — well, as I explained to you
before, if youre unable to testify for some reason,
the videotape is shown to a jury.
Do you understand that?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Katsanis, can you please tell us your
name and your address for the record, please?
A Nicholas G. Katsanis, 555 23rd Avenue, Vero
Beach, Florida, 32961.
Q And Nick, whats your birth date?
A January 3rd, 1925.
Q And how old does that make you today?
A 69.

 Q And whats your wifes name?
A Anna.
Q And for how long have you and Anna been
married?
A 47 years.
Q And how long have you known Anna?
A Since 1941.
Q And do you and Anna have any children?
A Yes.
Q How many children do you have?
A Three.
Q Are they boys or are they girls?
A Three boys.
Q And whats their names?
A Dennis, William and Nicholas.
Q And how old is Dennis, William and
Nicholas?
A Dennis is 38, William is 34 and Nicholas is 32.
Q And do you and Anna live together?
A Yes.
Q And how long have you and Anna lived
together?
A 47 years.

 Q How long have you and Anna lived together
at the address you are at now?
A Five years.
Q Five years. Where did you live before
that?
A Youngsville, New York.
Q And where did you live before Youngsville,
New York?
A Clark, New Jersey.
Q And did you live in New Jersey your whole
life before that?
A Yes.
Q Nick, have you ever served in the armed
forces?
A Yes.
Q And when did you serve in the armed
forces?
A 1943 until 1946.
Q And which branch was that?
A United States Navy.
Q Nick, as we sit here today, can you tell
the jury if you have any physical complaints?
A Yes.

 Q Do you have any physical complaints –
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Unresponsive.
Q Do you have any physical complaints that
you feel as youre sitting here today?
A Yes.
Q And whats that?
A I tire. I have shortness of breath and a lot of
anxiety.
Q Is there anything else that you feel?
A No.
Q Well, with regard to the tiredness that
you talked about, is that something that comes and
goes, or is that something you feel constantly? How is
that?
A Thats constant.
Q And can you tell us what — you know, can
you describe for us what you mean when you say that you
get tired?
A Well, I cant do anything physical for any
length of time. I cant — Im not as active as I used
to be socially, physical — physically, and I cannot
participate in activities prior to my illness — that I
did prior to my illness.

A October, 1993.
Q Does that date stick out? Does that time
frame stick out as anything?
A Yes.
Q And what is that?
A I was removing the trash from the garage and I
felt myself panting and getting very tired and weak,
and I knew something was wrong because I had been a
healthy man all my life.
I made an appointment to see a doctor.
Q Lets go back for a minute.
You also said that you thought that you
get short of breath?
A Yes.
Q Can you describe for us what you mean?
A Well, I keep gasping for air when I try to do
something or try to be active.
Q And is that something that comes and goes,
or is that something that you feel often?
A I feel that often.
Q And when do you recall first feeling that?
A October, 1993.
Q The anxiety that you talked about, can you

death. I think about my family. I think — I think
about Ive been let down.
I played by the rules all my life, rules
laid down by society. Ive always taken care of
myself. I never got in trouble. I was never arrested.
And I felt betrayed.
Q Okay. Lets go back.
When you say you think about your family,
what is it that you think about?
A I think about my wife and my three children. I
know theyll make it without me, but I still think
about it. It will — how tough it will be on my wife
because shes my age. And we — we depended on each
other all our lives.
Q When you say that you think about death,
what do you mean by that?
A Well, in the hospital they told me that my
illness was terminal.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Hearsay.
Q Okay. And what is it about that that
makes you think one way or another?
A Well, I got literature on mesothelioma and it
said its incurative.

 Q Is there anything else about your anxiety
that you think about?
A Well, I cant do things that I used to do with
my family, and that bothers me a lot. I feel helpless.
I feel like Im a bump on a log.
Q When you say that you feel like you played
by the rules your whole life and you feel let down,
what is it that makes you think about that?
A I served my country. I got a job. I played by
their rules. Ive been honest with the company I
worked for. I did my best. I raised a family. Ive
never been — Ive never gotten in any trouble, never
been arrested for any crime.
I was — I took care of myself physically.
I tried to eat the right foods and tried to stay as
healthy so I can enjoy my golden years.
Q Well, what is it that you makes you feel
as though youve been betrayed?
A Well, when they told me about my illness, I felt
that, why wasnt I told about this product? I should
have had an opportunity to refuse to work with it or do
something about it. I wasnt given that opportunity.
Q Nick, is there any other things that you

that?
A I feel a pressure on my left side, on the left
side of my chest since I left the hospital. It feels
like a heavy bandage is tightening every day, and its
getting tighter and tighter.
Q When did you first feel that?
A After the operation at — at Indian River
Memorial Hospital.
Q When did you have an operation at Indian
River Memorial Hospital?
A Around the beginning of November or the end –
the beginning of November. The first week of November.
Q Does the — going back again for a minute.
The anxiety you talked about, does that
cause you any trouble during your daily living?
A It sure does.
Q Does it cause you trouble during the day
or during the night?
A During the day and during the night. It affects
my sleeping. I cant sleep on my back for any length
of time or either side. Im constantly shifting my
weight. And I find — I get relief when I shift my
weight.

on my back for any length of time, I get a pressure up
near my neck, like a tension pressure.
Q Can you describe it a little bit more?
A Well, Ive had tension pressures before years –
for whatever, and its that kind of a pressure, from
tension.
Q Is it any different from what it was
before?
A Oh yeah, its more severe.
Q And how often do you have that problem?
A Every night.
Q When did you first feel that?
A Right after the operation.
Q Its the same operation you talked about?
A Yes.
Q November?
A Yes.
Q You told us — well, do you have any
medical conditions? I think you told us you have
mesothelioma, correct?
A Yes.
MR. McGUIRE: Object to the question.
Q When did you learn you had mesothelioma?

 MR. HAEFELE: All right, lets go back
then.
Q Nick, do you have any medical conditions?
A I have mesothelioma.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
Q And when did you learn that you had
mesothelioma?
A When Dr. Woo-Ming and Dr. Tonner told me.
MR. McGUIRE: Move to strike.
Q Can you tell us what events occurred
immediately preceding or just preceding the time that
you found out that you had mesothelioma?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Well, when I had that — when I took out the
trash and I went to the doctor, I went to Dr. Grossman,
who was an internist. And they gave me an examination
and he said, I suspect you have a collapsed lung.
And he told me to go get X-rays down the hall and
return the X-rays to him.
I returned the X-rays to him and he told
me that, Your right lung — Your left lung is
collapsed and the cavity is full of fluid. And that
it would have to be drained immediately and, You have

A I went home, got my toiletries and some articles
and I was admitted to the hospital. And he followed me
to the hospital and he — he drained some fluid from my
lung and told me that Dr. Tonner would follow up
because Dr. Tonners a pulmonary doctor and he would
finish it up that weekend. He would complete it.
Q Can you describe for us how it was that
the X-rays were performed on you?
A Well, I went to the X-ray room and the
radiologist positioned me two different positions and
took X-rays, side view and a front view.
Q And what had Dr. Grossman told you about
your condition before you had the X-rays taken?
A He asked me about — he asked the history — he
asked my history, my work history, and I told him where
I worked and what I worked with, and he suspected — he
suspected mesothelioma.
Q Okay. And when Dr. Grossman told you
that, did he describe to you what mesothelioma is?
A Yes.
Q And what did he describe to you?
A He said that mesothelioma is a — is caused by
asbestos and it affects the lining of the lung.

mesothelioma meant for you as far as your health went?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. McGUIRE: I want to place an objection
to the prior question and answer.
Q Did he describe for you what mesothelioma
– what mesothelioma would mean as far as your health?
MS. DEZII: Same objection.
A He told me that thats a little outside of his
realm of expertise and that I would have to see an
oncologist or — about that.
Q Did he describe for you whether or not
there was any treatment for mesothelioma?
A No.
Q What did he say about that?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A He said that I would have to see an oncologist.
Q When Dr. Grossman told you that he
suspected that you had mesothelioma, did that affect
you in any — in any way mentally or physically?
A I was devastated. My — my bubble burst.
Q Why is that?
A Well, although I retired when I was 55 years
old, I was still — I still considered myself a young

 I bought a home in Florida, and that year
I went to Florida to stay, and that was going to be
my — my real retirement, so to speak. And it felt
like the whole world collapsed — everything collapsed
around me. My bubble burst. I felt very weak. I had
a cold sweat, and I didnt even know whether I could go
to get that X-ray done.
Q Well, did you have an understanding of
what mesothelioma was at the time that he told you
that?
A Vaguely.
Q And what was your understanding?
A That it was a cancer of the lung. I didnt know
it was a cancer of the lining. I thought it was a
cancer of the lung, but he told me it was a cancer –
the lining is diseased.
Q And when you were sitting having the
X-rays taken, what were you thinking?
A I was thinking that this is — this is it, Im
finished, because I know what cancer is all about. And
that I — I was devastated. I was distraught. I was
thinking that Im not going to be with my family much
longer. I was very upset.

 Can you tell us what you saw or what you
felt when that was happening?
A Well, he sat me on the edge of the bed and he
told me to bend — lean forward, and he gave me a
local, I guess, like a Novocain or whatever, and he –
with an instrument.
He punctured my back and he inserted a
tube and he was talking in a very low whisper to the
nurse and they were having a difficult time draining
the fluid. And he just took so much out. He didnt
take it all out, just enough, I guess, to get me
through until Dr. Tonner came in to finish it.
He said Dr. Tonner, thats his field,
pulmonary, and he would complete the operation, that
operation.
Q How did you feel when Dr. Grossman was
draining your lung?
A I felt that this couldnt be happening to me. I
was a very healthy man all my life and I was looking
out the window and I said, This is my retirement. I
came to Florida to die.
I often heard that, people go to Florida
to die. But I never thought it would happen to me, and

you were diagnosed?
A A couple weeks. A week — a week to ten days.
Q And tell us what happened after — after
Dr. Grossman drained your lung.
A He said that a pulmonary doctor will see you the
end of the week, and he would drain the rest of the
fluid out. And when Friday came Dr. Tonner was out of
town, or he couldnt make it, and he told me to go home
for the weekend.
I went home Saturday and Sunday. I did my
emotional thing with my family. I did my crying with
my family, and that sort of helped me a little bit. I
went to church. I prayed.
Monday morning, went to the hospital –
went back to the hospital and Dr. Tonner was waiting
for me. And he started the procedure that Dr. Grossman
started, punctured my back, put a tube — inserted a
tube. And it took over an hour, maybe an hour and a
half for this procedure, and again, I couldnt hear
what he was talking about with the nurse because it was
in a very low whisper.
And when he finished, he inserted this
tube and stuck it in a box that I had to carry around

measure the amount of fluid that they took from — that
was — and he also hooked up an air pump to help drain
the fluid.
And every day they would measure the
amount of fluid that was drained from my lung, and I
had to carry that box around with me. If I went to the
bathroom or if I took a little walk, had this long
tube, and I carried it out like a suitcase. I had to
walk — walk around with that.
Q Did you see anything running through the
tube or –
A I saw a red and — it looked like blood diluted
with water. It was a — red in color, pink maybe.
Q And how long did you have the tube in your
back?
A For a week. Before — right up to the operation
and after the operation.
Q Could you feel it in you?
A Well, I felt the pressure where they inserted it
into my back because of the bandage. I knew it was
there.
Q And how did they remove the tube from your
chest?

have to be very careful in removing the tube, he said,
because we could have a lot of problems.
I asked him, How are you going to stop
the air from getting sucked in? And he said, I
already made arrangements for that. I put a stitch
there. And when the nurse was pulling the tube out,
it looked like it was in there about a foot. It
felt — it took a long time for it to come out. And as
the tube came out, he just — the stitch that was
there, he tightened it right up to keep any air from
going into my lung.
Q Could you feel it?
A Oh yes.
Q What did it feel like?
A It was sickening. That was the worst — that
was the worst — of the operation and my whole stay
there, that was the worst part –
Q What did the –
A — removing that tube.
Q What did it feel like?
A It felt like someone was taking a rotor rooter
out of the side of my chest.
Q Did Dr. Tonner ever tell you what he

A He told me I had mesothelioma.
Q Did he explain to you at all what
mesothelioma is?
A Yes.
Q And what did you understand him to explain
to you?
A He told me that mesothelioma is incurative and
theres no treatment for it.
And there is a treatment, but if I was a
younger man, he would offer it to me. But for my age,
no.
Q And when he explained to you what you just
told us, how did you feel mentally?
A Well, I was distraught and I felt that thats
why Im terminal. Because if there was a treatment,
theres hope.
And when he sent me home, he didnt give
me any medication, not even an aspirin. And I said
that I would — my family and I, we talked about it,
and I would have to go for a second opinion.
Q Did you go for a second opinion?
A I went for a second opinion.
Q And who did you go to for a second

appointment with Dr. Scott. Shes in Vero Beach on
36th Street. Shes an oncologist. She confirmed
everything that my doctors had said.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q And how did you feel after that, when she
told you what she told you?
A Well, I felt bad, but she also said, The only
thing I recommend, that you have a CAT scan taken every
six months, and when I heard every six months, that
made me feel little better, because the doctors in the
hospital were talking a month or months, like two
months.
She told me to go home, and you have –
enjoy the quality of life you can while youre in this
condition because things will get worse later on.
Q And how did that make you feel?
A That didnt make me feel good. That didnt make
me feel good at all.
Q Did Dr. Tonner have any other tests or any
other procedures done on you?
A No.
Q Did — go ahead.
A Dr. Woo-Ming, whos a thoracic surgeon,

 Q What kind of operation did Dr. Woo-Ming
– did Dr. Woo-Ming do anything on you?
A Yes.
Q And what did Dr. Woo-Ming do on you?
A He told me that he was going to go inside my
chest and spray a talc, some kind of a talc on the
lining of my lung, and that he would position that lung
in its proper place and hopefully it will stay there,
and that would help me a little bit.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Move to strike.
Hearsay.
Q Did that — when Dr. Woo-Ming described to
you what he intended to do, did that cause you to feel
any way in particular?
A Well, I didnt like — of course, when you hear
that someones going to spray a talc on the lining of
your lungs, thats not going to make me feel very good,
but it had to be done. Hes my doctor and I went — I
had it done. He said it had to be done because, Your
lung is collapsed and it has to be positioned in a
proper spot, a proper place.
Q Describe to us what you felt when he
described the condition to you, or did he describe what

felt like I was a half a man. My activities would be
curtailed.
What does that mean, paste the lung up
against the lining of the chest cavity? Thats like a
temporary repair. Hes not going to cure me. And he
said, Hopefully it will stay there, hopefully.
Q Were you –
MR. McGUIRE: Move to strike the hearsay
portion of the response.
Q Were you awake when they performed the
surgery on you?
A No.
Q When you woke up after the surgery, how
did you feel?
A Well, I felt — I felt nauseous and sick for a
couple hours. And they kept me comfortable. They
tried to keep me very comfortable.
Q Nick, have you received any treatment for
the mesothelioma?
A No.
Q And why is that?
A Because the doctor said there is no treatment
for my mesothelioma.

regular basis?
A Im seeing Dr. Zimmer, whos an oncologist, and
Dr. Tonner.
Q And for what do you see Dr. Zimmer?
A He — I have X-rays taken, and he lets me know
how Im not progressing, how Im regressing.
Q Does he do anything for you?
A He gives me a — he checks the vital signs. I
dont know exactly what hes doing when he feels the
glands on my body. I dont know. He doesnt tell me.
And he said — he said — he tells me to go home and
see him in a month.
Q And how often do you see Dr. Tonner?
A Dr. Tonner I see every month.
Q And what does Dr. Tonner do for you when
you see him?
A I have X-rays taken and he puts the X-rays up
against the light and he proceeds to tell me how Im
regressing and how the tumors are growing. And I dont
feel very good when I leave his office.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Hearsay.
Q Nick, you said you go to see Dr. Zimmer
and Dr. Tonner every month, right?

either of the doctors, do you think about anything in
particular regarding your pending visit with a doctor?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Leading.
A I think about it when I leave his office up
until the time I visit him again.
Q Well, what do you think about?
A Well, Im expecting the worst. I fear going
back into the hospital. I fear being hooked up to
oxygen or to some kind of a drug, like morphine. I
fear all that.
Q What makes you think that you might have
to be hooked up to oxygen?
A Because I have a friend who has mesothelioma
and hes hooked up to oxygen.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection. Move to strike.
Objection to the prior question and answer also.
MR. HAEFELE: On the record off the
camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the objection?
MR. McGUIRE: I objected to the last
question, Counsel.
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the basis?

 an apparent condition of somebody whos not a
party to this case. Were not aware — hes
talking about another case.
MR. HAEFELE: Back on the camera.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, whos your friend that you say has
mesothelioma?
A Gaza Grebely.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
MS. DEZII: Objection to the relevancy.
Q And how do you know that Mr. Grebelys on
oxygen?
A He told me.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Nick, lets go over to when you went to
see Dr. Scott.
What did Dr. Scott do for you?
A She gave me an examination and she told me –
MR. McGRATH: I object to the hearsay from
Dr. Scott.
Q What did she do for you?
A She gave me an examination and she read all the
doctors reports. She looked at all the X-rays, and

 Q Nick, as were sitting here today, do you
know whether or not youre to undergo any treatments?
A Please repeat that.
Q Sure. As were sitting here today, do you
know whether or not you are to undergo any treatments?
A I dont know that. They told me there is no
treatment.
Q And how does it make you feel?
A It makes me feel bad.
Q And how is that?
A Well, if they could treat you, theres hope. If
they cant treat you, there is no hope.
Q Nick, can you tell us — can you give us
the benefit of what your educational background is?
A I have a high school education.
Q After high school, what was the first
thing that you did after high school?
A I went into the navy.
Q And that was the time period you told us
about earlier?
A Yes.
Q When you were in the navy, were you
exposed to asbestos?

your next job?
A I worked for Edison Battery.
Q And wheres that?
A Belleville, New Jersey.
Q When did you work at Edison Battery?
A March — September, 1947 to March, 1948.
Q And when you worked at Edison Battery,
were you exposed to any asbestos?
A No.
Q And when you — did you have another job
after Edison Battery?
A No.
Q Did you go to work anywhere after Edison
Battery?
A I went to work for Public Service Electric &
Gas.
Q And when did you start working for Public
Service Electric & Gas?
A May 10th, 1948.
Q And how long were you at PSE&G?
A 32 years.
Q When did you retire?
A June 30th, 1980.

A I started as a turbine operator, and after six
months I started working as a machinist. I was a
machinist approximately thirteen years, and after that
I became a boiler repairman, and I finished out my
career in Public Service as a boiler repairman.
Q What stations were you stationed at?
A I was stationed in Marion generating station,
home station, and Linden generating station as a home
station. But we traveled to other stations, which they
called area maintenance. We were — we had to work in
other stations when they needed us.
Q Did you have any other jobs at PSE&G other
than the ones youve just talked about?
A No.
Q What were your job duties when you were at
the Marion station?
A I was a turbine operator. I operated the
equipment, pumps, compressors, turbines, oil pumps and
some housekeeping, and took readings. Took readings of
various equipment, hourly readings.
Q Where were your readings done?
A In the powerhouse, in the boiler room, in the
turbine room.

 Q Did you work only in one particular area
in the powerhouse or did you work all over the
powerhouse, or how would you describe it?
A As a turbine operator I worked in every area of
the turbine room, and one area of the boiler room, the
high pressure boiler room, 51 or 52 boilers.
Q And what — when you went to the Linden
station, what were your job duties at the Linden
station?
A I was a boiler repairman. My duties were to
work on boilers, feed water heaters, pumps, air
compressors, turbo — the turbine work, and I worked on
all associated equipment in the powerhouse that is
needed to operate a powerhouse.
Q Okay.
A I worked all over the place.
Q I think I missed something actually.
Going back to Marion, you said you were a
turbine operator. What about when you were a
machinist, what did you do as a machinist?
A As a machinist, I worked all over the
powerhouse, boiler room, turbine room. We maintained
all the equipment that is needed to operate a

A The equipment was located in the turbine room,
in the boiler room and in the yard.
Q And when you worked at PSE&G what
materials, if any, were you exposed to when you worked
there?
A I was exposed to asbestos. I was — do you want
me to name all the asbestos products?
Q No. Were you exposed to asbestos?
A I was exposed to asbestos.
Q And how was it that you were exposed to
asbestos?
A Well, most of the time to get at the equipment
we had to rip away insulation. And the insulation was
made of asbestos, block, pipe covering, removal of
gaskets, installation of gaskets, that sort of thing.
Q Okay. Did you only remove them or did you
have to replace them or did somebody else do that? How
was that –
A We removed them and we installed them, the
gaskets. We removed the gaskets, we removed the
insulation, but we never — very — we very seldom
installed the insulation because in that station at
that time they had pipe coverers. That was their job.

 Q Okay. What about at Linden?
A In Linden we removed the insulation and
installed the insulation. Because now I had a
different classification. I was a boiler repairman and
that was part of my job specs.
Q When the pipe coverers were installing the
insulation at the Marion station, would you be working
near them?
A Right next to them.
Q And would you be — were you being exposed
to any materials that they would be creating?
A Yes, I was exposed to all the materials because
while we were buttoning up the job, they were doing
their job. They were doing their jobs, just like we
doing our job. We were right there. The stuff was
coming down like snow.
Q Nick, can you tell us what shapes of
asbestos products or what types of asbestos products
were you exposed to?
A I was exposed to pipe covering, block, gasket
material, firebrick, floor tile, rope, cement, joint
compound, asbestos gloves. Did I mention tape?
Q Can you describe for us — what does pipe

in three foot lengths approximately, and it looks like
two halves, like two half-moons, and they fit over the
pipe, the sides of the pipe.
Q Okay. And what about the block? What did
the asbestos block look like?
A Blocks were four to five feet long, maybe four
to six inches thick, and a foot wide.
Q And asbestos gasketing material you talked
about, what does that look like?
A Gasket material was gray in color and it was of
a hard substance and we had to remove that, and
sometimes we had to remove it with a wire wheel, and we
installed the appropriate gaskets back on the
equipment.
Q Okay. Can you tell us, was it — was the
gasketing material something that you would make or was
it something that was already made?
A Both. They came — they came — depending upon
the piece of equipment you worked on, you could get
it — you can get it from the storeroom and install it.
Most of the times we had to make it.
Youd go to the storeroom and youd get the size that
you needed. You take it off the roll, and with a

made the gaskets yourself, did that create any dust
when you would make them?
A Yes.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
Q Did you see the dust?
A I saw the dust.
Q And when you made the gaskets, did it –
did you inhale any of the dust?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A I breathed it. I inhaled it. I touched it. It
got on my clothing, more so during the removal. Like
sometimes a Flexitallic gasket wouldnt come off easy
and youd have to use a wire wheel or chip it off.
Scrape it off.
Q Lets go back.
Why dont you describe for me how you
would go about making, cutting a gasket?
A Well, if I needed a gasket two feet in diameter,
I would set my tool a radius of one foot, and
theres — and you find the center of the material, and
theres a razor on the edge of the cutter and you just
cut it for the outside diameter, and you do the same
thing for the inside diameter.

joint.
Q Okay. Can you tell us whether or not any
dust was created during the cutting process?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us, describe for us what the
environment was like when you would be cutting the
gasket?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A Well, I wouldnt be working by myself. There
would be other workers in the area doing other jobs.
And there would be a lot of dust, asbestos dust and
other dust.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
Q And where is that coming from?
A Its either coming from below, above, or in the
immediate area.
Q Nick, why dont you describe for us what
the firebrick looked like?
A Firebrick looked like — looked like a — yellow
in color, about two inches thick, a foot long, and
three inches wide approximately. And it had the name
of the firebrick imbedded into the brick.

A France, and the other one was Green.
Q Was that the only name that was on it, or
was there other things on the firebrick?
A I think A.P. Green and J.H. — J.H. France.
Q How about the rope? What did the rope
look like?
A The rope looked like asbestos fibers wound –
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection –
A — wound in a rope fashion.
Q What did the floor tiles look like?
A The floor tiles were approximately nine to
twelve inches square and an eighth of an inch thick.
Q How about the cement? What did the cement
look like?
A The cement looked like — well, theres two
different kinds of cement. The cement in powder form
had to be mixed with water to the proper consistency.
And then there was also a paste cement.
Q Okay. And the joint compound, what did
the joint compound look like?
A The joint compound looked like — well, we had
to mix that with water also.
Q What did the cement look like before it

 MR. OTOOLE: Which substance are we
talking about?
MR. HAEFELE: I asked him cement.
Q Now, what I actually meant to ask you
was, what did the joint compound look like before it
was mixed with water?
A To my recollection, there was two different
kinds of joint compound. One was a paste and one was a
powder.
Q Is it the same thing as the cement, then?
A Yes.
Q How about the gloves? What did the gloves
look like?
A Gloves were gray, white in color, long gauntlet,
and they were ugly.
Q What did the material look like?
A It looked like asbestos fibers.
Q And how about the tape? What did the tape
look like?
A The tape was two inches wide and it came off a
roll. It looked like asbestos. We called it asbestos
tape. Everyone called it asbestos tape.
Q Can you tell us whether or not the work

products created any kind of a dust?
A It created a lot of dust.
Q What do you mean when you say it created a
lot of dust?
A The whole powerhouse was dusty. Even when work
wasnt done, the vibration from the boiler, the pumps,
the air compressors, the equipment being in service
created a lot of dust. The steam lines, the hot water
lines were constantly shaking, vibrating, and over a
period of years, that pipe covering gets loose and
that — just by the boiler being in service and the
equipment being in service, created a lot of dust.
And you could see it when the sun shines
into the window, you could see all these dust particles
throughout the whole powerhouse, no matter where you
went.
Q Can you tell us whether or not you were
exposed to any of the dust from each of the packages,
from each of the products that you just talked about?
A I was exposed to dust from every package that I
handled or other people handled.
Q Well, going back over the pipe covering,
the block, the gasket material, all the types that you

A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
A I inhaled it. I breathed it. I touched it.
Q Nick, did you do work yourself that
involved asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And what kind of work did you do?
A Pipe covering. I installed gaskets. I removed
gaskets. I — I used the jackhammer on the floor to
remove the slag and the brick.
Q Did you use the block yourself?
A I used the block.
Q Did you work around other people that –
where the other people were doing work that involved
asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And what kind of work were the others
doing?
A They were insulating asbestos block, pipe
covering, doing basically the same thing I was doing.
Maybe it was another gang, another group.
Q Whats your basis, how is it that you know
that the dust youre talking about is asbestos dust?

removing it, they werent too careful removing it.
The prime objective was to get to the
boiler, so they removed the block. A lot of it would
break. It would hit the steel flooring, filter
through, and maybe youd be working below and its
coming right on top of you.
Q How did you know it was asbestos?
A Because it looked like asbestos. We called it
asbestos. The bosses called it asbestos. They
referred to it as asbestos.
Every one of those products was referred
to as asbestos, asbestos block, asbestos pipe covering,
asbestos blanket, asbestos tape. Thats what they
called it.
Thats what I called it. Thats what I
saw on the boxes when it was delivered to the job site.
So it had to be asbestos.
Q How frequently were you in the area where
the asbestos work was being done?
A Most of the time.
Q What do you mean when you say most of the
time?
A Every job in the powerhouse, no matter what

boiler room or on the feed water heaters, everything is
covered with asbestos.
Q How close were you working to the people
that were doing the asbestos work other than yours?
A I was either above them, below them, or next to
them.
Q And how close would you be?
A A foot to six feet or ten feet. And above is
the next floor, I dont know how many feet a floor is,
or below me.
And you say, well, wouldnt the asbestos
fall down? The dust filters up. You could see it
filtering right up from the draft. The powerhouse is
very drafty, and you could — you could see that dust
coming up through the steel flooring.
Q Thinking back to when the people would be
working in your area right around you, do you remember
the work that they did creating dust?
A Yes.
Q And would you be inhaling that dust?
A Inhaling it, breathing it.
Q Was it the same way both at Marion and at
Linden?

A The same thing.
Q What type of equipment is it that youre
describing that had the asbestos insulation on it?
A Boilers, feed water heaters, pumps, air
compressors, turbines and all associated equipment
needed to operate a powerhouse.
Q Were you exposed to asbestos from these –
from these pieces of equipment?
A Yes, yes.
Q Tell me how you were exposed to asbestos
from the boilers.
A If we had a tube leak, we had to get to the skin
casing. To get to the skin casing, you had to remove
block insulation to cut a square hole out of the side
of the boiler.
The boiler was insulated by block, block
insulation, or you had to remove pipe covering if you
were working on a line thats connected to the boiler.
You had to make a weld on the pipe.
Q Can you give us some examples of how you
were exposed to asbestos on the feed water heaters?
A The most frequent exposure I had was when we
removed the head of the feed water, we had to cut down

was the biggest exposure, and associated pipe lines.
There was the pipe coming off the feed water heater.
We had to remove them also.
Q How about the pumps, when you were fixing
a pump, how would you be exposed to asbestos on a pump?
A Mostly by removing gasket material and
installing gaskets, and sometimes there was insulation
we had to remove. Not too much, but we had — to get
at what were doing, we had to remove some insulation
to rig it. Maybe to remove the cover, we had to cut
away the insulation.
Q What kind of insulation are you talking
about?
A Block, pipe covering.
Q Was there any insulation on the inside of
the pumps?
A The gasket material between the joint.
Q Anything else?
A Thats it.
Q How about the compressors? How would you
be exposed to asbestos from the compressors?
A The — by remove — we had to work on lines, air
lines, and sometimes we had to remove the asbestos from

pumps.
If we had to throw a sling around an
I-beam, and that sling would be rubbing up against the
asbestos, we would have to remove that asbestos.
Otherwise we — it would hinder your progress, your
work.
Q Lets go back to the boilers for a second.
Can you tell me, do you know who
manufactured the boilers that had the asbestos on it
you were exposed to?
A Yes. It was B&W, Foster Wheeler, C&E, AC&S,
Babcock Wilcox.
Q Whats an AC&S boiler?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Is that a boiler, AC&S?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Asked and
answered. Leading.
A Did I see — did I say AC&S?
Q Yes.
A Theyre contractors. I think theyre
contractors.
Q Okay. Lets go back, then.
So were clear, then, what boilers do you

 Q Whats B&W stand for?
A Babcock Wilcox. Combustion Engineering, Foster
Wheeler, and Riley boilers.
Q How did you know that it was a B&W boiler?
A By the nameplate.
Q Did all of them have nameplates on them?
A Yes.
Q Is that the way you knew the names of the
other boilers too?
A Yes.
Q Do you know who manufactured the feed
water heaters?
A Feed water, Foster Wheeler and Lummus. Foster
Wheeler and Lummus.
Q How did you know Foster Wheeler and Lummus
manufactured them?
A By the nameplate.
Q How about the pumps, do you know who
manufactured the pumps?
A Worthington pump, Ingersoll-Rand.
Q How did you know that Worthington and
Ingersoll-Rand manufactured the pumps?
A By the nameplate.

A Yes. And DeLaval, I worked on a DeLaval in
Marion.
Q What kind of piece of equipment was that?
A It was a pump, a feed water pump.
Q Now, Nick, thinking back over your career
at PSE&G, you told us about certain asbestos products
you were exposed to.
Can you tell the jury the names of the
companies that manufactured the asbestos products that
you were exposed to regularly over the 50s, 60s and
70s at PSE&G?
Lets start first with the pipe coverings.
Can you tell us the names of the asbestos pipe covering
you remember being exposed to?
A Owens-Corning, Owens-Illinois, Pittsburgh
Corning, Kaylo, Johns-Manville, Pabco,
Monoblock.
Q How about the block, what are the brands
of block that you remember being exposed to?
A Monoblock.
Q Is Monoblock a block or a pipe covering or
both?
A We used it as both. On the large diameter pipes

you described?
A No.
Q Or — no?
A No.
Q How does it come?
A In blocks, four to five feet long, three to six
inches thick.
Q That would be the block stuff you
described to us earlier?
A Yes.
Q How about the gaskets, who made the
gaskets?
A Anchor, Garlock and Flexitallic.
Q And the sheet packing, who made the sheet
packing that you described to us that you were exposed
to?
A Anchor and Garlock.
Q Can you tell us the names of the brands of
cement that you remember being exposed to?
A Stic-Tite, U.S. Gypsum, Ruberoid, Quigley, Gold
Bond, Armstrong, Super 7-11, Flintkote.
Q How about the joint compounds, do you
remember the asbestos joint compounds you were exposed

 Q Do you remember who made the gloves that
you talked about?
A Notte.
Q How do you spell that?
A N-O-T-T-E.
And there probably was other gloves, but I
remember that one.
Q How about the blankets, do you know who
made the blankets?
A No.
Q When did you work with the products? When
did you work with these products you just talked about?
A Whenever we worked on the boilers or the feed
water heaters, or whenever we worked on insulating
pipe.
Q Was there any particular time frame
throughout your career?
A I worked on — mostly when I was a boiler
repairman.
Q How about earlier on?
A No, only the removal.
Q Did you work around other people using
them earlier on or –

 Q With regard to the products you just
talked about, how would you know, for example, that it
was an Owens-Corning pipe covering?
A By the label on the box.
Q Would that go for the other pipe coverings
as well?
A Yes.
Q How about the cements, how would you know,
for example, that it was a Stic-Tite cement?
A By the label on the bags or the container that
it came in.
Q Would that be the same for the other
products that you talked about knowing the names to?
A Yes. And the bosses referred to it as the brand
name, and we referred to it as the brand name, the
workers.
Q And how did you know that the products you
just talked about, how did you know they contained
asbestos?
A Well, everyone referred to it as asbestos, the
bosses, the men. We talked — we always referred to it
as asbestos. And I know that asbestos has — is
supposed to have had good insulating qualities.

A Yes.
Q Did you use any of the products, any one
of the products, did you use any one of them any more
than any other product?
A I would say I used them all about the — equal
amounts. I cant say I used one more than the other.
That would be very difficult for me to say.
Q Nick, lets go back.
Can you tell us the names of the companies
that supplied the asbestos products, any of the
asbestos products that you were exposed to?
A A-Line, Guyon, Heller, Industrial Welding
Supplies.
Q Anything else you can think of?
A There were others, but thats the only ones I
can think of.
Q Can you recall when these companies that
you just named, can you recall when they supplied the
products of PSE&G?
A When we had a job on a boiler or we would — we
would see the truck pulling in certain stations.
Q Any particular years?
A Oh, no, I cant — I cant do that. It was

A It was with frequency. It was — whenever there
was an outage.
Q Well, can you tell us the names of any of
the companies that did any asbestos contracting work
at — tell us the names of any of the companies that
did any of the contracting work when you were at PSE&G.
A United Engineering.
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Let me go back and ask you again.
Tell us the names of any of the companies
that did any contracting work when you were at PSE&G.
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
MR. HAEFELE: On the record, off the
camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the objection?
MS. DEZII: It lacks foundation.
MR. OTOOLE: And in all fairness, Bob,
first you suggest what the other companies were
doing and then strike your question and ask
another question. I think its unfair.

 me ask it the way I asked it first, though.
MR. OTOOLE: It lacks foundation. Thats
all.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go back — off the
record. It was truly unintentional. I didnt
the question — off the record, yeah.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go back on and back on
the camera.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, can you tell us the names of any of
the companies that did any contracting work involving
asbestos at PSE&G?
MR. OTOOLE: Same objection.
A United Engineers, C&E, Foster Wheeler, Babcock
Wilcox, and Riley boiler, Riley Stoker.
Q How is it you recall the United Engineers,
for example? How is it you recall United Engineers
doing asbestos work at PSE&G?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Well, it was common knowledge when United
Engineers came in, just by — there was no label on any
trucks, but we knew it was either — the people that
worked for them, the union people, they worked for

 Q How did you know that they were United
Engineers people?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Its been asked
and answered.
A Because sometimes, not all the time, it was on
the trailer that they used for an office. Or someone
would come in and say, where is United Engineers
trailer, like that.
And we — there was a guy named Ski that
worked for United Engineers. When you seen him, you
knew it was United Engineers.
Q And what kind of work do you recall United
Engineers doing at PSE&G?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Youre not limited
to time. Youre not limited to job facility.
A They would work on the boilers or the air
heaters, on the boilers, all boilers. They did a lot
of boiler work, and feed water heaters.
Q Where would they do the work?
MS. DEZII: Same objection.
A In what station?
Q Yes.
A Marion, Bergen, Kearny, Linden and Sewaren.

A Yes.
Q What did you see them doing?
A They did the same work I — I performed, same
type of work.
Q Did any of the work involve asbestos?
A Yes.
Q How close were you to where they were
working?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Whos they?
A I was working next to them, over them, below
them, near them.
Q Would any of the work that United
Engineers workers be doing, did it involve — did it
create any dust?
A Yes.
Q Where was the dust coming from?
A It was coming from the boilers, or if they were
installing or removing a heater, it was coming from
that piece of equipment.
Q And did United Engineers workers use the
materials from your powerhouse that you were working
at, or did they bring in their own materials?
A They brought in their own materials.

A Yes.
Q Did the work that they did create any
asbestos dust?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A I breathed, inhaled and touched.
Q How often would you be exposed to the
asbestos dust from the United Engineers workers?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Every day they were on the property.
Q How did you know the names of the other
contractors?
A The same way.
Q And what kind of work were the other
contractors doing?
A The same as United Engineers, except Foster
Wheeler — Foster Wheeler, Im not sure, but I think
the only boiler they had was in Bergen, but they –
they never did any boiler work in the other stations,
only Bergen. Im — I think they had a Foster Wheeler
boiler in Bergen.

other equipment at any other stations?
A They worked on the feed water heaters at Marion.
Q And were you exposed to any asbestos dust
from the work done from the other companies?
A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
A I inhaled it, I breathed it and I touched it.
Q How close were you to where they were
working?
A From a foot to six foot to twenty feet.
Q And how often did you work in the area
where these other contractors were working?
A Every day.
Q Mr. Katsanis, have you worked since you
left PSE&G?
A No.
Q So youre not working now?
A No.
Q Do you smoke?
A No.
Q Did you ever smoke?
A Yes.
Q When did you smoke?

smoked, were there any warnings on the packages of
cigarettes then?
A There were no warnings on the cigarettes then,
on the pack. No.
Q So you never smoked when there were any
warnings on packages of cigarettes?
A I never smoked when there was — please repeat
that.
Q Well, you told me there werent any
warnings on the cigarettes.
A Yes.
Q So would it be fair to say you never
smoked when there was any warnings on cigarettes?
A The warning — I never smoked a cigarette when
there was warnings on the cigarettes. I quit in 1957.
There were no warnings on the cigarettes then, on the
pack.
Q Okay. Nick, at any time during your
career, did anyone ever tell you that you should wear a
mask or that you should wear a respirator in order to
protect yourself from asbestos dust?
A No one ever told me.
Q Did anyone ever tell you that working with

 Q Did anyone ever tell you that it could
kill you?
A No one ever told me.
Q Did you ever see any warnings on any
asbestos products saying that it could make you sick or
that it could cause you injury?
A I never saw any warning on an asbestos product.
Q Did you ever see any warning that said it
could cause you mesothelioma or any kind of lung
cancer?
A I never saw a warning at that time.
Q Nick, if you had seen a warning, or if you
had been warned by anyone that it could make you sick
or that it could kill you, would you have done
something different?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Yes.
Q What would you have done?
A I would have either quit my job or I would have
made sure I took every precaution not to get the
disease, or maybe go to a department where I didnt
have to handle that.
Q And why would you have done that?

the manufacturers like Owens-Corning ever come to the
workplace and tell you in any way –
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q — that they knew since the 1940s and the
1950s that asbestos could cause lung cancer or could
cause mesothelioma?
A No.
Q And how did you feel about the fact that
they knew about that information or kept that
information from you?
MR. MARINO: Objection.
A I feel betrayed.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go off the camera for
a minute.
(Off the camera.)
MR. OTOOLE: My objection, youre saying
companies, and you really have a broad umbrella
as to all companies. Im not sure its
established that all companies had knowledge or
kept knowledge away.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. I understand your
objection.
Jack, I think you had one.

 concerned.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. If thats the only
objection — is that the only objection?
MR. CHAZEN: Objection is to form as to
the way you phrased the question.
MR. HAEFELE: I want to have an idea of
what it is. I mean, you can say objection to
form, but the fact is that were in the middle
of a trial at this point and I think its a
little bit more –
MR. CHAZEN: And Kevin expressed the
reason why.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. And Im just trying
to clarify that thats the only reason.
Jack, did you have any?
MR. McGUIRE: The objection was stated by
counsel, was a general objection to form of the
question.
Id like to expand it a little bit. I
think that the question, as it was stated,
wasnt a conduct type of focus, which is
certainly irrelevant to the case and is
irrelevant to this proceeding, and its also

 what do you mean?
MR. McGUIRE: I think it stands for
itself, a speculative question. What he may
have done, what the witness may have done.
MR. HAEFELE: All right. Lets go back
on.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, how do you feel about the fact that
some of the companies knew about that information and
kept it from you?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Well, I feel betrayed. I felt they werent
being honest with me. I say me, because Im infected.
I got the disease.
And I think it was — like I said before,
I played by the rules and I dont think they played by
the rules, being honest with the product that I worked
with.
If I to go the store and it says poison on
it, I know how to treat that product. And when I
handled asbestos, I didnt treat it like it was going
to hurt me.
Q Nick, if you were told that a mask could

used it?
A Yes.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
Q Why is that?
A If I decided to stay with the company and use
the product knowing what it did to me, I would have
used it to prevent from getting a disease. If it was
going to be dangerous to my health and it was going to
affect my health, I would use every means available to
keep myself from being diseased.
Q Nick, before you were diagnosed with the
illness in October, 1993, did you enjoy any activities
that you did?
A Oh yes.
Q What kind of activities did you do?
A I didnt have hobbies. I did a lot of fishing
up in New York State. My activities was with my
family. I enjoyed my family. I enjoyed my home. I
enjoyed the things I did around my home.
I did extensive gardening. I dont mean
planting tomatoes and peppers and corn. I did
extensive — I liked — I liked to be with the earth.
I planted trees, shrubs. I was very — that was my

They had cars. I worked on their cars. My family, we
were — were very closely knit. We were wrapped
around each other. And that was my lifestyle. We
always did things together, when my boys were young.
My wife and I always did things together.
Now thats all curtailed. Went on
vacations.
Q Do you do any of these things differently
now from what you did before?
A Oh yes.
Q Can you tell us, for example, how is the
gardening different now from before?
A I dont do any gardening. I cant. Im
physically unable to do it. I contract it out.
The gardening that I had done in Florida
was done prior to my illness, and now I contract — I
dont do any gardening. I contract the grass cutting
out.
Q Did you do gardening — did you do
gardening in New York?
A Oh yes.
Q Why dont you describe for us what you did
in New York?

best landscaped house in town.
Q And who did the landscaping?
A I did all the landscaping.
Q Can you tell us what you did?
A I had — I cut down all the pine trees that were
growing wild and I trimmed them all to a sharp point.
Everyone in town admired that. I had a lot of comments
on it.
I tore up all the old shrubs, planted all
new shrubs. I took care of it every day. I thinned
out the woods. I made the place look like a dollhouse.
Q And did you do any kind of gardening down
in Florida?
A Yes. The first four years I ripped out all the
old stuff they had there and I did my own planting
around the house, foundation planting, and the lawn was
in.
And I contract the lawn out to be done by
someone else. I cant do it anymore.
Q Nick, Im a little confused. Maybe you
can clear something up.
You said that you went down to Florida
just before you were diagnosed, but now youre

A Yes.
Q Can you tell us why were you doing
gardening down there before you got down there?
A Because I enjoyed it.
Q What Im trying to get at is, when did you
move to Florida?
A 1988.
Q Okay. Were you living down there full
time in 1988?
A No, I was six months in Florida and six months
in Youngsville, New York.
Q And when did you move down to Florida full
time?
A October, 1993.
Q And why were you living six months one
place and six months another place?
A Well, I wanted to enjoy the best of both worlds.
I didnt want to be around the snow. I left in
November and came back in May.
Q And when you eventually moved down to
Florida full time, why did you do that?
A Because I was — Im much older. When I retired
I was 55. I was pushing 70, and it was getting too

real retirement age, 70, and I was still feeling pretty
good.
And this is what we always wanted to do,
to go to Florida permanently and spend our golden years
there, my wife and I.
Q Okay. Let me go back to the gardening for
a minute.
You said that you dont do that anymore
and you contract it out. Why is that?
A Im physically unable to. I get winded. I get
short of breath. I get tired. Its a — its a
laborious task now to do it, even light gardening. I
cant do light gardening. I find it very laborious.
Anything laborious I dont enjoy.
Anything thats — its like a job. Its work. I
cant do it. It takes too much out of me.
Q Since your diagnosis with the condition
that you have, have your activities around the house
changed at all?
A Oh yes. I do — I dont do any maintenance in
the house. I cant — I cannot perform any maintenance
around the house anymore.
Q Well, did you used to do the maintenance?

to do?
A I did carpentry, plumbing, electrical work,
cement work, plumbing.
Q In the house youre in now, does it call
for any of that kind of work to be done?
A Yes.
Q Do you do that work still?
A No.
Q Why dont you do the work?
A Im unable to.
Q What do you mean when you say youre
unable to?
A Well, I had to contract a roof out. I was able
to do it. I planned on doing it. I contracted that
job out.
Q Why did you do that?
A Because I was unable to do it. I was physically
unable to do it.
Q What do you mean when you say youre
physically unable?
A Well, it was exhausting, it was very exhausting
because of my condition.
Q Has your family life changed in any

 Q How so?
A Well, my social life has changed. We dont go
out to dinner much. I used to go — I used to like to
go out to dance once, twice a week. We dont do that
anymore. I used to go swimming three, four times a
week. I dont do that anymore.
I participated in church activities,
primarily the festival we have down there at my church,
which is a three, four-month preparation, and thats
been curtailed somewhat. Because theres a lot of work
to be done. And I just cut down on my — all those
activities.
Q Other than the swimming, are there any
other physical activities that you used to do regularly
that you dont do anymore?
A I used to walk five miles in the morning, five
miles in the evening every day.
Now I walk with — with my doctors
permission, I walk a mile and a half.
Q Well, why is it you dont walk the five
miles anymore?
A Im unable to. I get exhausted. I tire. And
again, it became — it became laborious. It became

intimidating. Im afraid something is going to happen
to me.
Q Do you still go to the dances like you
talked about?
A No.
Q Why not?
A Well, dancing tires me out. Its very tiresome.
And if I do go, I just have dinner and we leave. I
dont dance.
Q What kind of dancing did you like to do?
A Well, the 40s and 50s, you know, swing. I
like to do polkas and I like to do old fashion waltzes
and rumbas and like that.
Q What kind of work did you do for the
church? You said something about the festival?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us what you did?
A We start preparing for the festival in December.
We do most of the cooking. We do most of the baking.
We have the facility. We have freezers.
Then when — the festival is usually in
February, and I used to assist my friend who did all
the electrical work. I helped him put up all the

tables. We would rent the tables and tents and we made
sure that the light — the proper lights were installed
for those proper tents, and things like that.
Q And do you work on it anymore?
A No. What I do, the three days of the festival,
I just wipe trays. Thats my limit. I just wipe the
trays. And the people get their food and they put the
tray on the table. I wipe and clean them and I set
them on the side and someone takes them away. Thats
all I could do.
Q Nick, let me ask you, has your
relationship with Anna changed at all?
A Yes.
Q And how has it changed?
A Well, we sleep in different beds.
Q What do you mean by that?
A Were not sexually active.
Q And why is that?
A Because Im unable to be sexually active.
Q Has it changed in any other fashion? Are
there any things that you used to do together that you
dont do anymore?
A I would say we — we do everything together, you

 Q And when did you go to Epcot?
A A couple years ago.
Q Do you have any plans to go on vacation
now?
A Yes.
Q What plans do you have?
A Id like to go to Nashville this Christmas.
Q Has your diagnosis affected your plans in
any fashion?
A Yes.
Q How would you say that?
A Well, Im a very positive man. I dont say
hopefully Im going to go to Nashville. I say Im
going to Nashville.
Now, if I dont make it, I dont make it.
But Im very positive. Im going to Nashville and Im
going to make plans to go to Nashville. And Im going
to meet my son there and were going to spend maybe a
week there.
When the doctors talking to you in
months, theres not much plans you can make. But
Dr. Scott gave me some kind of hope when she said, Id
like you to get a CAT scan every six months. That

 Q Thank you, Mr. Katsanis. Thats all I
have for you right now. I think some of the other
people, when we go around the room, will have questions
for you.
(Recess.)

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. OTOOLE:

Q Good afternoon. My name is Kevin OToole.
Im from the law firm of Picillo & Caruso, and my law
firm represents several defendants named in your
lawsuit. I have some follow-up questions for you.
You indicated you currently live in
Florida. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q There was some testimony going back and
forth and some confusion on the part of your attorney,
and I think the rest of us, as to when exactly you
established residence in Florida.
And youve indicated you spent the last
five years, six months in Florida and six months in New
York. Is that correct?
A Yes.

recall?
A I made Florida my domicile in 1989.
Q Now, when you say you made it your
domicile, can you explain it to me?
A My mailing address. That was my official
address, my voting residence.
Q That was my next question. You voted in
Florida since 1989?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And thats been the case from 1989
to the present, is that true?
A Yes.
Q And in which town or towns has that been
made true in Florida since 1989?
A Vero Beach.
Q Have you had only one address since youve
been in Florida for the last five years, just the Vero
Beach address?
A While I was in Florida?
Q Yes.
A When I went back to New York, my address was –
Q Okay.
A — Box number, Youngsville.

Dr. Tonner?
A Tonner.
Q And where does Dr. Tonner practice?
A In Vero Beach at the Doctors Clinic.
Q In Vero Beach, okay.
And you mentioned a Dr. Woo –
A Woo-Ming.
Q Woo-Ming. And where does
Dr. Woo-Ming practice out of?
A Vero Beach, 36th Street.
Q And youve indicated youve had a recent
procedure or surgery performed upon you, is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And where was that done?
A Indian River Memorial Hospital.
Q And where is that located?
A Vero Beach.
Q And prior to establishing a domicile in
Florida you indicated that you spent some time in New
York, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And was your domicile prior to Florida,

 Q And where in New York was that?
A Youngsville, New York.
Q And where is Youngsville located?
A Ten miles west of Liberty.
Q And how long have you been a resident of
New York?
A Fourteen years.
Q And when was the first year that you
established residence in New York?
A 1981.
Q And from 1981 until you left to go to
Florida, did you establish and did you maintain a
domicile in Youngsville?
A Yes.
Q And that was the only home that you
occupied during those years in New York?
A Yes.
Q Okay. You indicated that upon questioning
from your attorney, that you did some housework
throughout the years at your various homes. Is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And one of the statements you made, that

correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And what did you do with the cement
or the cement work on those homes?
A I put in a block patio.
Q And when did you perform that?
A 1981.
Q And do you know if that was an
asbestos-containing cement that you used with the
patio?
A They were preformed blocks. I laid in sand.
Q Did you use any cement product?
A No.
Q You indicated you had done cement work?
A Well, it was cement block.
Q Okay.
A A foot and a half cement blocks.
Q Do you know if the cement block had
contained asbestos?
A I dont know.
Q You dont know, okay.
And you also indicated on your Direct
testimony that you had done some brake work with some

 MR. OTOOLE: Im sorry, car work. Im
sorry, Bob.
Q You did some repair on cars –
A Yes.
Q — is that correct?
Did you do any brake work, any repairs?
A Never.
Q Did you do any clutch work?
A Never.
Q When your cars needed brakes or clutches
serviced or maintained or replaced, where did that work
get done?
A In the garage.
Q In the garage?
A Yes.
Q And that was never your job?
A No.
Q You indicated that you retired in 1980?
A Yes.
Q And you were of the age of 55?
A Yes.
Q And you havent worked since 1980, is that
correct?

this June it will be fifteen years?
A Yes.
Q You mentioned briefly this morning that
you served sometime in the navy, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And in your previous testimony two days
ago you indicated that you had served in the navy for,
I think, 34 months. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And during those 34 months, you indicated
you served aboard two ships, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall the name of those two
ships?
A The U.S.S. Mount Hood and the U.S.S. Luna.
Q And during your 34 months in the navy,
where were you stationed?
A I was stationed ten months in Guantanamo Bay.
Q And where is that?
A Cuba.
Q Cuba, correct, okay.
And were you on board any ships during
those ten months?

barge?
A Deck work.
Q Okay. During those ten months, did you
live aboard that water barge?
A Yes.
Q To your knowledge, were you exposed to any
insulation materials on board the water barge?
A No.
Q Were there any insulation materials
present on board?
A No.
Q And you indicated that you spent some time
on the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall during which years you were
on the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A July, 1944 to November 10th, 1944.
Q And you remained on board the U.S.S. Mount
Hood from July, 1944 to November 10th of that same year
throughout?
A I lost my ship November 10th, 1944.
Q When you said you lost your ship, what do
you mean?

board the U.S.S. Mount Hood, in what capacity did you
serve?
A I was a seaman and I operated the captains gig.
Q Okay. And on board the U.S.S. Mount Hood,
is it fair to say there was insulation on board on some
of the piping?
A I was never in the boiler — I dont know. I
was never in the boiler room.
Q Did you ever see any insulation on any of
the piping throughout the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A I believe I did.
Q Okay. And did you ever have to repair,
replace or come into contact with any of that piping?
A No.
Q And you indicated you spent some time on
the U.S.S. Luna, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during which years or months
did you spend on board that?
A January, 1945 until February, 1946.
Q And what type of ship was the U.S.S. Luna?
A It was a cargo supply ship.
Q And what did you do on board?

insulation on some of the piping on board the U.S.S.
Luna?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever happen to go into the boiler
room on occasion?
A No.
Q Did you ever do any repair or replacement
work?
A No.
Q When you were on board the U.S.S. Mount
Hood and the U.S.S. Luna, were they dusty environments?
A No.
Q Was there any vibrations throughout the
ship with — concerning either the boiler room or some
of the equipment utilized on board?
A Vibrations?
Q Vibrations.
A There was vibrations on the Mount Hood.
Q And do you know where the vibrations were
coming from?
A Loading and unloading ammunition.
Q And did you ever do that, loading or
unloading of the ammunition?

some point in time, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And when was that?
A September, 1947 to March, 1948.
Q And youve indicated in your previous
testimony that you worked at Edison Battery for about
nine months?
A (Witness nods head.)
Q Is that correct? You have to verbalize
your response.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during that time, your
testimony was that you were helping in the making of
producing of batteries, is that correct?
A No.
Q Im sorry. Why dont you tell me what you
did at Edison Battery?
A I worked in shipping. I put the appropriate
container on the appropriate battery.
Q When you say the appropriate container,
can you just explain that to me?
A Batteries come in different sizes.
Q Right.

of battery.
Q Were you involved in the actual — was
that considered the production or the tail end of the
production of the battery?
A The battery was completed when I got it.
Q And the container that you were involved
with, was that to house the entire battery?
A Yes.
Q And the plant itself, can you describe the
Edison Battery plant when you worked there?
A I was only exposed to the cafeteria, the hall,
the locker facilities and the shipping department.
Q And where did you actually perform your
duties?
A The shipping department.
Q Did you ever go throughout the plant at
any point in time?
A No.
Q You never went into the production
portion?
A Never.
Q Do you know whether there were any
insulated pipes throughout the plant, maybe the

A I would say in the cafeteria they had a steam
scullery, so they would probably have insulation. I
dont know, but Im assuming.
Q And were there any other pipes that had
insulation throughout the plant, other than in the
cafeteria, to your knowledge?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q And did you ever come into contact with
any of those products?
A No.
Q While working at PSE&G there did come
occasions that you wore a mask, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And why during those occasions did
you wear a mask?
A It was excessively dusty.
Q A couple of days ago you were in a similar
situation and you had a series of questions asked about
you concerning your work history and your personal
history and your medical history. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And at that time you gave truthful and
accurate answers, is that correct?

of your ability, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And at that time you spoke in some detail
about the work that you performed on the various pieces
of equipment, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you spoke about the various contact
that you believe you had with various pieces of
insulation, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And concerning the equipment, you
indicated in some detail some of the contact you had
with some of the boilers, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you detailed your testimony at that
time, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And the same held true for the
pumps that you mentioned, is that true?
A Yes.
Q And the feed water heaters?
A Yes.
Q And the other pieces of equipment that you

 Q And you spoke in some detail at that time
about the various pieces of contact that you had with
your equipment, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And to your knowledge, was that the sum of
your contact, or the nature of the contact that you had
at the plant that you described for us?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Would you repeat that question?
Q Sure. That was an inartful question.
MR. HAEFELE: Well, let me –
MR. OTOOLE: Let me ask a question, Bob.
Q You spent some time, it was actually a
very long day last Wednesday, and you spent some time
detailing the various contact that you had with the
boilers and the various pieces of equipment.
And is it fair to say that you had given
us at that time your complete knowledge as to your
contact with that equipment?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
MR. OTOOLE: Off the record.
MR. HAEFELE: Sure, off the camera.
(Off the camera.)

 that every question was asked about all of the
jobs that he did.
I would say that it would be fair to ask
him if he answered all the questions that were
asked as completely or whatever, but to assume
that every question was asked about every aspect
of his job may be assuming too much.
MR. OTOOLE: Bob, the reason Im asking
him that is because I want to try to save some
time here and not go through the same type of
testimony he already elicited on Wednesday.
If its necessary for me to go through the
various type of contacts or various types of
experiences he had with the equipment, Id be
happy to do so, but I was just trying to frankly
circumvent that and just –
MR. HAEFELE: In all fairness, I just
dont want you to be saying that hes testified
to more than he did on Wednesday. To say that
he testified, you know, extensively and that
sort of thing, I think thats fair to say.
It was a long time, but I dont know what
was left out because I — you know.

 MR. HAEFELE: I dont know that anything
was left out either, but I wouldnt want to say
the defense counsel asked every single question
under the sun, although I think they probably
did.
MR. OTOOLE: I think youre right.
Back on the record, please.
(Back on camera.)
Q Have you had an opportunity to read over
your transcript of the deposition that took place two
days ago?
A What was taken place two days ago, no.
Q You havent had an opportunity to review
your responses?
A Read my responses?
Q Yes.
A No.
MR. OTOOLE: Okay. I have no further
questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. OSHAUGHNESSY:

Q Mr. Katsanis, my name is John

 With reference to your time at the Marion
station, when you were a machinist, I believe you
testified two days ago that you were a machinist for
approximately thirteen years, is that correct, from
about 1948 to 61?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during that time as a
machinist, you had occasion to go to, I believe you
stated — and correct me if Im wrong — two other
stations.
Do you recall that testimony?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you went to, I believe you
stated you went to the Bergen station two times during
that period, the thirteen-year period from 48 to 61.
Do you recall that, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you also went to the Kearny
station of PSE&G on one occasion?
A Yes.
Q Do you know how long that was, that period
at Kearny?
A It was a short time. I cant recall how long.

station, is that correct, sir?
A Yes.
Q And you also went, I believe, on one
occasion, I think you were rather precise, in 1956 for
approximately one month to the Sewaren station,
correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, at the — you also testified
two days ago that at the Bergen station on the second
occasion there, which I believe you stated — and Im
quoting you — may have been or maybe was two months.
MR. HAEFELE: If youre going to quote,
give a reference, please.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Sure. I believe that
was page 57, line 25.
MR. HAEFELE: Just objection to the
question.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
Q You stated that you may — maybe you were
there for two months. Do you recall that testimony,
sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And on that occasion you stated you

 Do you recall that, sir?
A Packing, gaskets and the pipe covering, yes.
Q Now, would you describe for us the packing
that you came in contact with on that second occasion
at the Bergen station?
By that I mean, you know, the color, the
texture.
A The color was gray, and I also handled
Flexitallic –
Q Right.
A — gaskets. And sheet packing is gray.
Q Okay. So that were not confusing both,
lets just talk about the — lets talk about the
gaskets, okay?
A Okay.
Q Now, you had previously described in
answer to a question from your own counsel, you
described the gaskets as gray in color, hard substance,
in describing it.
Do you recall that testimony, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, when you personally handled
the gasket materials, was it hard and slippery? You

 Q Was it hard and slippery?
A It was hard.
Q Could you further describe it?
A It could be slippery. You could describe it as
being slippery, like graphite, a graphite substance.
Q When describing the gasket, would that
apply also to the Anchor gasket?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And would that apply to any other
gaskets that you worked with at the Bergen station?
A The Anchor and the Garlock –
Q Okay.
A — were like the same.
Q Now, when you went to the Bergen station,
you worked with the Garlock gasket on only one
occasion. Isnt that correct, sir?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A One day?
Q On one occasion.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Counsel, for the
record, its page 64, line 8 of your clients
testimony.
A I might have worked on the job, but — I might

 Q I understand. Let me just read you the
question. Maybe it will refresh your recollection.
MR. HAEFELE: Let me just –
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Sure.
MR. HAEFELE: Off the camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Im not sure for what
purpose youre using his prior testimony at this
point, and thats what I have a problem with.
Now, I dont know that its appropriate
for you to sit here and quote his prior
testimony to him under the circumstances under
which youre doing this.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Well, we havent
established from my question how many times he
used it. Ill ask that question, then, and then
if it agrees with his prior testimony, then I
wont have to use it.
MR. HAEFELE: All right.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
(Back on camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Why dont you tell me where
it is?

 Q On how many occasions did you replace the
packing materials that you used on the pumps at the
Bergen station?
A Numerous times. I cant name you numbers. I
never counted them. I never kept a log.
Q Okay. Let me just read your prior
testimony from page 64, line 8, for the benefit of
counsel.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Ill put the whole
thing in context, Counsel, to be fair to you.
Actually we should start, then, at line 63 –
page 63, line 16.
Q You were asked:
QUESTION: What did it look like on the
old Garlock material?
Thats the Garlock material that you had
stated that you had removed.
ANSWER: It looked like the material I
replaced it with.
QUESTION: Were there any marks on it
identifying it as Garlock on the old material?
ANSWER: No, not on the old material, not
on the Garlock.

 similar appearance. Is that correct?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: And you replaced the old
material with Garlock packing?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: And what type of equipment
were you working on when you did this?
ANSWER: Pump.
QUESTION: And if you can recall, how
many occasions did you replace the packing on
the pump during the period of time you worked at
the Bergen facility on the second occasion?
ANSWER: Once.
Is that correct, sir –
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
Q — that it was only one occasion?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the entire
question.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
Q The objection is noted, so you can answer.
A Are you asking me did I just install one gasket?
Q Im just asking you, sir, how many times
did you replace the packing on the pump during the

here, a flange here. Wherever the line came into the
pump.
Q Okay. So this answer, then, is incorrect,
your prior testimony, that it was only on one occasion?
A Well, I meant that to be that one job.
Q When you say one job, sir, are you talking
about the second time that you were there?
A Yes, the one pump.
Q Thats what Im — thats the frame of my
question. Were only talking about that one time?
A That one pump.
Q Okay. Did you work on more than one pump
on that one section?
A No, I worked on one pump.
Q Okay, thank you.
Now, would that also be true of gasket
materials that you worked with? Did you work with
gasket materials on the second occasion that you were
at the Bergen station?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And do you know who manufactured
that gasket material?

description that you would give for all three types of
gaskets?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A No.
Q The Anchor, the Garlock and the
Flexitallic?
A Flexitallic was different.
Q How was Flexitallic different?
A It had a metal ring on the inside and it was the
color of light blue and the substance looked –
asbestos, had an asbestos look to it.
Q Okay. And –
MR. OTOOLE: Objection to the response.
Nonresponsive. Calls for speculation.
Q With reference to the Anchor gasket, was
that still the same texture, hard and somewhat
slippery –
A Yes.
Q — that you previously described?
A Yes.
Q Would that also describe the Garlock
gasket material?
A Yes.

 When you removed packing material from a
flange, would it be fair to state, sir, that you could
not identify any lettering or any logo on the material
itself because it was an old material that had gone
through, say, wetting and drying cycles?
A Sometimes you could see the markings; sometimes
you couldnt — sometimes you couldnt.
Q Okay. But with reference to the Garlock
material that you removed, you were not able to
identify that particular material, any marking on it
that said it was a Garlock product, isnt that correct
sir, as you previously testified?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Well, sometimes we recognized the material.
Now, if youre asking me on that particular job, I
cant say for sure, but we recognized it.
I didnt take a special look and putting
my head — 20 years down the road theyre going to ask
me if that was there. I saw markings sometimes, and
sometimes I didnt and thought nothing of it.
Q Okay, sir. But again, were just talking
about old material that you were removing.
A Yeah.

removing a Garlock packing material, based on markings?
A I removed Garlock and Anchor Packing in the
Bergen station.
Q Okay, sir, but my question is, are you
able to recall any specific markings that said it was a
Garlock or an Anchor product?
Just markings Im talking about.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection. Do you have a
time or place that youre referencing?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Were talking –
Q Let me make that at the Bergen station,
and then Ill follow that up.
A At the Bergen station?
Q Right.
A That was a new station when I worked there, and
those — that gasket was fairly new. And I would say
the markings were still on there.
Q Okay. But do you have an independent
recollection, sir, of a gasket that you removed from a
flange and it had a marking on it that identified it as
coming from Garlock or Anchor?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A I cant recollect, no.

materials, from a question by your own counsel. Do you
recall that, sir?
A Yes.
Q Using the gasket cutters, radius of one
foot, and then the razor is — it was a razor, right?
A A razor, a single edge razor.
Q That would be a pretty sharp razor, as we
know razors, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you would cut on the outer edge?
A Yes, the outside diameter.
Q And then the inside diameter?
A And then the inside diameter.
Q Right. And would it be a fair statement,
Mr. Katsanis, that that was — because it was a razor,
that was a pretty straight — that was a pretty sharp
cut, would you say that?
A Yes.
Q And was that a cutter that was supplied by
PSE&G that was there on the job that you would utilize
all the time?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And there were, in fact, two types

worked at, precut or preformed, and also there would be
the sheet gasket material that you previously described
for us?
A Sheet material and the preformed gaskets are the
same substance, same material.
Q Okay. Did you have — you named three
different companies. Did all three different companies
manufacture a preformed gasket?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Flexitallic did, Anchor did and Garlock did.
Q Okay. And the preformed gaskets, where
would you get those from?
A The storeroom.
Q Okay. And typically, you would use a
preformed gasket on what type of equipment?
A Pumps, feed water heaters, air compressors, on
different flanges on the turbine.
Q Would it be a fair statement that you used
preformed gaskets on most of the equipment that you
worked at at the PSE&G station?
A No.
Q Which stations would you not — what type
of equipment would you not use preformed gaskets on?

storeroom. We dont have to make them.
I only made them when they werent
preformed.
Q Exactly. Okay.
A Yeah.
Q If they were preformed, obviously thats
the easiest way because they didnt have to be cut or
manipulated. You just installed them, correct?
A We — we made most of the gaskets. Id say a
good percentage of the gaskets we made.
Q Well, when you say a good percentage,
could you be more precise? About what percentage, as
opposed to the preformed gaskets?
A I cant tell you percentage. But most of the
gaskets we made.
Q But you cant give us a percentage?
A No.
Q Okay. And when you got the gasket
material, were there any markings on the material?
A Yes.
Q What kind of markings?
A Some — well, it had the name of the company.
Some were in black and some were in red, the name.

A Yes. From a 64th of an inch to an eighth of an
inch. 64th, 32nd, 16th to an eighth.
Q And the eighth of an inch would be –
would be the thickest?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you, on those different
thicknesses, you always used the gasket cutter,
correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, you made reference to dust and
you stated that dust was coming from above you and
below you and to the sides of you, correct?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall where this dust was
coming from that you previously testified to?
A It could have been coming from a line that a
gang was working on below, above or on the sides.
Q Now, when you say a line, just for the
benefit of the jury, youre talking about a –
A A steam line, a pump, a compressor, a feed water
heater or other equipment needed to run a powerhouse.
Q But when you saw the dust, you couldnt
tell where the dust was coming from; you just –

correct, sir?
MR. OTOOLE: Object to the question and
object to the response being its unresponsive.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Well, he hasnt
given –
MR. OTOOLE: Well, the first response.
Its hypothetical, when you say could have
been. I dont think were dealing with could
have been.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I agree with you,
Counsel.
Q Lets talk about the dust, where it came
from, that you previously testified to.
You dont know where that dust came from,
do you?
A Yes.
Q You have no independent recollection, as
youre testifying here today, where it came from on any
given occasion, thats what Im saying.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
Q Go ahead.
A I could tell where the dust was coming from.
Q You have specific recollection of where it

 Q On different dates?
A Not on different dates, no.
Q Just –
A On different occasions.
Q Just a general recollection, isnt that
what it is?
A No.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection. I mean, if you
have a definition of what you mean by the two,
maybe we can understand it better.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I dont understand
your objection, Counsel.
MR. HAEFELE: Well, Im objecting to your
differentiation between general and
specific, and I dont know what you mean.
Q With reference to the rope that you used,
Mr. Katsanis — am I pronouncing your name correctly?
A Yes.
Q Okay. How did you know — you had
previously testified that it was asbestos fibers. How
did you know it was asbestos fibers?
A It looked like asbestos fibers. We called it
asbestos. The supervisors called it asbestos.

for you what asbestos fibers looked like, did you?
A No.
Q Youve never seen asbestos fibers under
any kind of a microscope, have you?
A No.
Q Now, you used this asbestos rope, I
believe, in the coal fire stations, is that correct,
sir, on access doors, I believe you testified to?
A We used it in oil fired stations also.
Q Okay. And this type of rope, what was the
diameter of the rope?
A Well, depending upon what piece of equipment we
were working on.
Q Okay. Well, give us the diameter like you
gave us the dimensions for the thickness of the sheet
packing — of the sheet gaskets.
A Okay, from a quarter inch to one inch.
Q Okay. And did you personally handle that
rope?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Would it be the same type of
texture that youve described for the gasket materials?
A No.

A It was very fibrous.
Q And what color was it?
A White.
Q And did you cut that rope also with a
gasket cutter?
A No, with a knife.
Q With a knife, okay.
And were there any markings on the rope
itself, any type of markings or writings that you can
recall for us?
A No.
Q Now, on those occasions, sir, when you
used a wire wheel to remove gasket materials, would it
be a fair statement that you couldnt tell the
manufacturer or brand name of that material that you
were wire wheeling from the flange, or wherever it was
that you were removing it from?
A You could tell. The name would be on it. Youd
get the face of it off, but the part up against the
flange, it wouldnt come off whole.
Youd have to have a clean surface to put
the other gasket on. It would have to be a clean
surface. And to get the remainder of the residue off,

 Q And how often did you use a wire wheel?
A I personally used it on every joint that I
scraped a gasket from.
Q And at what stations did that — would you
do that?
A All the stations.
Q And the markings on this material, what
type of markings? Did it have dimensions, a name?
A Sometimes it would say Anchor or sometimes it
would say Garlock.
Q Okay. Did it say anything else?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Asked and
answered.
Q The question is, did it say anything else
that you can recollect?
A I cannot recollect any other name.
Q Okay. Any other writings other than the
name? Anything else? Any logo?
A A pair of calipers, a marking of calipers,
something like that I remember vaguely.
Q Calipers?
A Yeah, a picture of a caliper, outside calipers.
Q When you were at the Marion station the

A Only if we cleaned condensers. Sometimes we
would replace a gasket.
Q But that wasnt — that was not a frequent
thing?
A No. I didnt do any maintenance work, heavy
maintenance work as a turbine operator.
Q When you worked on the lines that youve
testified to, did you personally remove the insulation
on the lines?
A At what point?
Q Well, lets talk about the time when you
were a boiler repair person.
A I removed the insulation.
Q And was that a dusty process?
A Very dusty.
Q And what did you remove the insulation
with?
A The insulation was wrapped with stainless steel
wire, and with a pair of pliers I undid the wire,
clipped the wire off, and I physically handled it and
passed it down.
Q And with what frequency did you
personally — during the time now that you were a

A At what frequency?
Q Yes. Lets take a week, a month.
Would you do it — was this something you
would do every day, three times a week, five times a
week?
A I wouldnt do it every day, but sometimes I
would, and sometimes I wouldnt do it for a month, and
sometimes Id do it for the next three days, on and
off, like that. You were taken on and off the job
frequently.
Q And what instrument would you use to
remove the pipe insulation?
A Just cut the wire, the stainless steel wire.
Q And after cutting the wire, what would you
do then?
A I would remove the insulation with my hands.
Q And you also testified to removing block
from boilers, is that correct, sir?
A Yes.
Q Was that a dusty process?
A Yes.
Q And would you bring us through, how would
you remove the block from — the old block from the

The same way. We cut the wire and we removed the
insulation trying to save most of it. And we would
stack it on the grating next to the boiler.
Q Did you ever personally use cement that
you believed to have contained asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And did you personally mix that cement?
A Yes.
Q Was that a dusty process?
A Yes.
Q And how often did you personally mix
cement during the course of your time as a boiler
repairman?
A As — whenever there was an insulation job. We
always used cement.
Q And with what frequency, say, during the
course of a month would you use — would you personally
mix cement?
A The same –
MR. OTOOLE: If you know.
Q If you know.
A Well, whenever I had an insulation job, like the
answer I gave you before, I used cement.

have to do? Take us through the steps.
A Okay. Get a bag of Stic-Tite or cement and put
it in a pan or a wheelbarrow and mix it with water
until you got the proper consistency that you could
work with, and with a trowel we would put it on the
joints.
Q And how large were these bags?
A They were between 30 and 50 pounds.
Q And did you personally remove the cement
from these 30 or 50-pound bags into a wheelbarrow, or
whatever you were mixing it in?
A I did it sometimes and sometimes my co-worker
would.
Q At what point in time did it become dusty?
A Whenever I cut the bag or when we dumped it into
the wheelbarrow or the pan or we disposed of the bag.
Q And do you believe the cement to have
contained asbestos that you worked with?
A Yes.
Q On any occasion did you ever work — you
told us that you worked on the outside of the boiler.
Did you ever work inside the boilers at all at any
time?

A Yes. From 1962 to 1980.
Q And do you recall where you worked inside
boilers, at what station?
A I worked inside boilers, inside of boilers in
Linden generating station and Sewaren generating
station.
Q Can you give us your best approximation of
the time period that were talking about, say, at the
Linden station?
A What was the question?
Q Yes. You worked — you stated you worked
inside boilers –
A Yes.
Q — at the two locations, Linden and I
believe you stated Sewaren?
A Sewaren.
Q Okay. Now, lets take the Linden station.
Can you give us your best estimate or
approximation of the time period during which you
performed this work inside boilers?
A The time period? I dont understand.
Q The years. What decade?
A Every year.

A Yes.
Q And that would be from 61 to the time you
retired?
A Yes.
Q And was this on one occasion or many
occasions during your time at Linden that you were –
actually did work inside the boiler?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
A I dont understand the question.
Q Sure.
A What do you mean by one or many occasions?
Q You say you worked inside boilers. Was
this on just one job that you were in there and you
left and you were never did it again at Linden, or did
you go back in on other occasions?
A Oh, I went back in on other occasions.
Q Can you give us your best approximation of
how many times you performed work inside a boiler?
A I cant do that. I never kept a log. Numerous
times.
Q Was it more than ten?
A More than ten.
Q What type of work — were talking now

A Worked on boiler tubes, worked on the boiler
front, the registers, worked on the floor, boiler
floor, removal of slag and brick from the boiler floor,
worked in the super heater section, worked in the
economizer section.
Q These are all sections inside the boiler?
A Inside the boiler.
Q Now, would you state for the jury so that
they have some idea of what the inside of a boiler
looks like, how tall would the space be and how wide?
MR. OTOOLE: Are you talking about all
the same boilers now?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: No, were talking
about the boilers that he worked on inside — at
the Linden station.
MR. OTOOLE: Is it just one boiler that
he worked on, or were there various boilers?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I will clarify that,
Counsel.
Q How many boilers did you work inside at
the Linden station?
A Six.
Q All six boilers?

manufactured by?
A B&W and Riley.
Q All six?
A No.
Q How many were B&W?
A Five.
Q And Riley Stoker was one?
A Yes.
Q And you worked inside all six?
A Yes.
Q When you worked inside, lets describe the
insides of the B&W boilers, the dimensions.
A It was approximately the size of this room, and
it had — on some of the boilers they had a division
wall.
And picture those blinds all around as
being boiler tubes, two to two and a half inches in
diameter,
I cant recall. And they go up eight — eight stories.
Q And when you worked –
A And on the floor they also had — below the
brick they had boiler tubes running the same way as the
boiler sides.

A Yes.
Q When you worked on the floor, what did you
do on the floor?
A We broke up the floor. We broke up the brick,
removed it so we could get to the — if we were just
replacing a floor and no — and not do any boiler work,
not do any boiler repair work, we would strip the floor
down to the boiler tubes and remove the debris and put
new firebrick in.
Q Okay. When you worked — you also stated
you worked in removing slag?
A Yes.
Q What is this slag? Would you be more
precise and describe it for us?
A Its the residue from the fuel that the company
used.
Q Did that create a dust, the slag, when you
removed it?
A It created some dust.
Q When you worked inside the boilers –
whether its on the tubes, the flooring, or the slag –
did you ever wear any kind of respirator or a mask over
your face?

trigger that occasion when it was too dusty?
A If there were too many people, if there was a
large group of people, or there was two jobs at one
time going on.
Q And can you give us an estimate of how
many people would be working in there with you on an
average occasion?
A Four to six. Sometimes youd get five, six men.
Q Would they be performing similar type work
to the work you were performing?
A No.
Q What kind of work would they be
performing?
A Well, we would rotate the jackhammer because
thats a tough job. And then we would have people
picking up the slag and put it on the conveyor or
taking it out in buckets. Maybe we would have two
jackhammers going or three.
Q And at what point in time would you start,
would you wear a mask or a respirator?
A When we got down to the firebrick, it got pretty
dusty if you had two jackhammers going.
Q And tell us more precisely what kind of a

yellow band on it, two bands to keep it up against you,
and a little metal piece to form around your nose.
Q Now, did you essentially perform the same
type of work when you worked inside the boiler at the
Sewaren plant?
A Yes.
Q And how many boilers were at the Sewaren
plant?
A Five.
Q And who manufactured those boilers?
A The four boilers in the main building Im sure
were C&E.
Q We dont want you to guess now.
A C&E.
Q Okay. And the fifth boiler?
A I dont remember.
Q And again, what you have described for us
as to this work inside the six boilers at Linden, was
that essentially the same type of work, or was it
different type of work that you performed at Sewaren?
A The same kind of work.
Q Was it the — were the dimensions of the
boilers essentially the same, or was there any

were smaller, and the fifth boiler was much larger.
They were the largest of them all.
Q And again, would you give us some idea of
how large they were?
MR. OTOOLE: Which boiler are you
referring to?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: The larger boilers
that he referenced to.
THE WITNESS: The larger boiler that I
dont know the name of. Number five unit.
Q Okay. Was it larger or smaller than the
ones at Linden?
A Larger.
Q And on how many occasions, can you
estimate for us, you performed work inside those
boilers at Sewaren?
A Oh, I cant do that because that wasnt my home
station. I couldnt give you a figure.
We were — we were in Sewaren quite a few
times, you know. Over my 20-year period or 19-year
period, with frequency I was in Sewaren.
Q Okay. So again, you would not be able to
estimate for us the number of times you actually did

numerous times.
Q Okay. Now, you retired in what year, sir?
A 1980.
Q And you have not worked since that time,
correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Now, when you went to these other
stations, did you ever go on what they called outages?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And would those be the occasions
which would bring you to another station?
A Most of the time they were outages.
Q And to explain to the jury, would you just
explain what an outage is? Is that an emergency
situation?
A No, thats not for me to determine. Its the
company determines whether thats an emergency.
Q And what is an outage?
A An outage is when the boiler comes out of
service and has to be repaired and its not in use.
I dont know about the emergency part.
Thats not –
Q Okay. I have nothing further.

 MR. McGUIRE: This is on the record, not
on the tape.
I made an objection earlier, Bob, when
Mr. Katsanis was talking about another person,
Mr. Grebely. I understand that the reporter may
not have gotten some of my objection since I was
a little bit far away. I just want to make sure
its clear.
I wanted to object to that testimony by
counsel because I think its improper to
interject another individuals medical case into
this one. I think its irrelevant, prejudicial,
and by its nature would call for hearsay.
I also dont believe that Mr. Katsanis is
qualified to discuss medical causation of
witnesses, and certainly its beyond the realm
of his capabilities.
MR. HAEFELE: With regard to Mr. Grebely,
most of the people here are probably the same
defendants. I just want to make it known that
you all have seen that weve made a motion for
an expedited trial in Mr. Grebelys case, and
were going to seek to have this case tried with

 objections to that.
MR. HAEFELE: By me telling you now, Im
putting you on notice that maybe, you know,
regardless of your objections to my request, you
may want to go out and start getting any experts
you have ready or anything like that. And we
can proceed the same way and make sure we get
together any materials that you folks need.
MR. OTOOLE: Okay.
(The witness is excused.)
(The deposition is concluded
at 12:50 p.m.)

* * *

 _C___E___R___T___I___F___I___C___A___T___E

I, MIRIAM ALFANO, Notary Public and
Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of New
Jersey, do hereby certify that prior to the
commencement of the examination

NICHOLAS KATSANIS

was duly sworn by me to testify the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth.
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing is
a true and accurate transcript of the testimony as
taken stenographically by and before me at the time,
place and on the date hereinbefore set forth.
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a
relative of nor employee nor attorney nor counsel for
any of the parties to this action, and that I am
neither a relative nor employee of such attorney or
counsel, and that I am not financially interested in
the action.
_______________________________________
Notary Public of the State of New Jersey

Fords, New Jersey 08863 (908) 738-8555
JOB # 404083

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION:MIDDLESEX COUNTY
DOCKET NO. L-2148-94
NICHOLAS KATSANIS andANNA KATSANIS, his wife,
VIDEO Plaintiffs DEPOSITION UNDER
ORAL EXAMINATION vs OF
NICHOLAS KATSANISABB LUMMUS CREST INC.,
et al.,
Defendants______________________________
TRANSCRIPT of the deposition of the witness,
called for Oral Examination in the above-captioned
matter, said deposition being taken pursuant to
Superior Court Rules of Practice and Procedure by and
before MIRIAM ALFANO, a Notary Public and Certified
Shorthand Reporter of the State of New Jersey, at the
Offices of WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQS., 90
Woodbridge Center Drive, Woodbridge, New Jersey, on
Friday, April 8, 1994, commencing at approximately
10:15 in the forenoon.

BRODY & GEISER
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS

A P P E A R A N C E S:
WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, ESQS.BY: ROBERT T. HAEFELE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
PICILLO & CARUSO, ESQS.BY: KEVIN OTOOLE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, A.P. Green, Armstrong,Flexitallic, GAF, Quigley, Turner & Newall and ABB
Lummus
OZZARD WHARTON, ESQS.BY: ALAN GRANT, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Porter Hayden
McCARTER & ENGLISH, ESQS.BY: JOHN C. McGUIRE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, AC&S
TUCKER, BIEGEL & GOLDSTEIN, ESQS.BY: JOHN BONVENTRE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Owens-Corning Fiberglas
RICHARD A. DeMICHELE, ESQ.Attorney for Defendant, Babcock & Wilcox
GARRITY, GRAHAM & FAVETTA, ESQS.
BY: ANTHONY J. MARINO, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, United Conveyor Corp.
McGIVNEY & UNTRACHT, ESQS.
BY: GARY H. UNTRACHT, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Elizabeth Hardware
COLEMAN & DEMBER, ESQS.
BY: W. BARRY RANK, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Rock Wool
POLLOCK, MONTGOMERY & CHAPIN, ESQS.
BY: PETER CIPPARULO III, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, J.H. France
CLEMENTE, DICKSON & MUELLER, ESQS.
BY: WILLIAM F. MUELLER, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Durabla Manufacturing

A P P E A R A N C E S: (Contd)
KELLY, McLAUGHLIN & FOSTER, ESQS.BY: TERANCE P. KENNEDY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Riley Stoker
CHASAN, LEYNER, TARRANT & LAMPARELLO, ESQS.BY: KIM ONSDORFF, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Robert A. Keasbey
ENRIGHT, LENNEY & McGRATH, ESQS.BY: MICHAEL McGRATH, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, State Insulation
HARWOOD LLOYD, ESQS.BY: DONALD M. BARONE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Janos Industrial Insulation
HOAGLAND, LONGO, MORAN, DUNST & DOUKAS, ESQS.BY: MARC S. GAFFREY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Heat Exchanger Services
DONINGTON, KARCHER, SALMOND, RONAN & RAINONE, ESQS.BY: MATTHEW E. PRZYWOZNY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Safeguard Industrial
MATTSON, MADDEN & POLITO, ESQS.BY: RAYMOND S. GURAK, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Cleaver Brooks
SLIMM & GOLDBERG, ESQS.BY: DAWN DEZII, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, United Engineers
NOWELL, AMOROSO & MATTIA, ESQS.BY: LINDA DUNNE, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, E & B Mill Supply andIngersoll-Rand
CHAZEN & CHAZEN, ESQS.
BY: DAVID K. CHAZEN, ESQ.Attorneys for Defendant, Global Management
WATERS, McPHERSON, McNEILL, ESQS.
BY: JOHN OSHAUGHNESSY, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendants, Anchor Packing and Garlock

A P P E A R A N C E S: (Contd)
CARTON, WITT, ARVANITIS & BARISCILLO, ESQS.BY: H. FRANK CARPENTIER, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Flintkote
GOLDSTEIN, TILL & LITE, ESQS.BY: AMY M. RIEL, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Rapid American
MAGEE & PAGANO, ESQS.BY: THOMAS ISHERWOOD, ESQ.
Attorneys for Defendant, Asbestospray

A L S O P R E S E N T:
CERTIFIED VIDEO PRODUCTIONS, INC.132 Franklin Corner Road
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648GLENN REITZEL, Videographer
LEE AHRENS, Videographer

 I N D E X
WITNESS NAME PAGE NO.
NICHOLAS KATSANIS
Direct by Mr. Haefele 6 Cross by Mr. OToole 75
Cross by Mr. OShaughnessy 91

 N I C H O L A S G. K A T S A N I S,
555 23rd Avenue, Vero Beach, Florida,
32961, called as a witness, having been
first duly sworn according to law,
testifies as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HAEFELE:

Q Good morning, Mr. Katsanis. As you know,
were here on the record for your testimony in this
videotape so that — well, as I explained to you
before, if youre unable to testify for some reason,
the videotape is shown to a jury.
Do you understand that?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Katsanis, can you please tell us your
name and your address for the record, please?
A Nicholas G. Katsanis, 555 23rd Avenue, Vero
Beach, Florida, 32961.
Q And Nick, whats your birth date?
A January 3rd, 1925.
Q And how old does that make you today?
A 69.

 Q And whats your wifes name?
A Anna.
Q And for how long have you and Anna been
married?
A 47 years.
Q And how long have you known Anna?
A Since 1941.
Q And do you and Anna have any children?
A Yes.
Q How many children do you have?
A Three.
Q Are they boys or are they girls?
A Three boys.
Q And whats their names?
A Dennis, William and Nicholas.
Q And how old is Dennis, William and
Nicholas?
A Dennis is 38, William is 34 and Nicholas is 32.
Q And do you and Anna live together?
A Yes.
Q And how long have you and Anna lived
together?
A 47 years.

 Q How long have you and Anna lived together
at the address you are at now?
A Five years.
Q Five years. Where did you live before
that?
A Youngsville, New York.
Q And where did you live before Youngsville,
New York?
A Clark, New Jersey.
Q And did you live in New Jersey your whole
life before that?
A Yes.
Q Nick, have you ever served in the armed
forces?
A Yes.
Q And when did you serve in the armed
forces?
A 1943 until 1946.
Q And which branch was that?
A United States Navy.
Q Nick, as we sit here today, can you tell
the jury if you have any physical complaints?
A Yes.

 Q Do you have any physical complaints –
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Unresponsive.
Q Do you have any physical complaints that
you feel as youre sitting here today?
A Yes.
Q And whats that?
A I tire. I have shortness of breath and a lot of
anxiety.
Q Is there anything else that you feel?
A No.
Q Well, with regard to the tiredness that
you talked about, is that something that comes and
goes, or is that something you feel constantly? How is
that?
A Thats constant.
Q And can you tell us what — you know, can
you describe for us what you mean when you say that you
get tired?
A Well, I cant do anything physical for any
length of time. I cant — Im not as active as I used
to be socially, physical — physically, and I cannot
participate in activities prior to my illness — that I
did prior to my illness.

A October, 1993.
Q Does that date stick out? Does that time
frame stick out as anything?
A Yes.
Q And what is that?
A I was removing the trash from the garage and I
felt myself panting and getting very tired and weak,
and I knew something was wrong because I had been a
healthy man all my life.
I made an appointment to see a doctor.
Q Lets go back for a minute.
You also said that you thought that you
get short of breath?
A Yes.
Q Can you describe for us what you mean?
A Well, I keep gasping for air when I try to do
something or try to be active.
Q And is that something that comes and goes,
or is that something that you feel often?
A I feel that often.
Q And when do you recall first feeling that?
A October, 1993.
Q The anxiety that you talked about, can you

death. I think about my family. I think — I think
about Ive been let down.
I played by the rules all my life, rules
laid down by society. Ive always taken care of
myself. I never got in trouble. I was never arrested.
And I felt betrayed.
Q Okay. Lets go back.
When you say you think about your family,
what is it that you think about?
A I think about my wife and my three children. I
know theyll make it without me, but I still think
about it. It will — how tough it will be on my wife
because shes my age. And we — we depended on each
other all our lives.
Q When you say that you think about death,
what do you mean by that?
A Well, in the hospital they told me that my
illness was terminal.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Hearsay.
Q Okay. And what is it about that that
makes you think one way or another?
A Well, I got literature on mesothelioma and it
said its incurative.

 Q Is there anything else about your anxiety
that you think about?
A Well, I cant do things that I used to do with
my family, and that bothers me a lot. I feel helpless.
I feel like Im a bump on a log.
Q When you say that you feel like you played
by the rules your whole life and you feel let down,
what is it that makes you think about that?
A I served my country. I got a job. I played by
their rules. Ive been honest with the company I
worked for. I did my best. I raised a family. Ive
never been — Ive never gotten in any trouble, never
been arrested for any crime.
I was — I took care of myself physically.
I tried to eat the right foods and tried to stay as
healthy so I can enjoy my golden years.
Q Well, what is it that you makes you feel
as though youve been betrayed?
A Well, when they told me about my illness, I felt
that, why wasnt I told about this product? I should
have had an opportunity to refuse to work with it or do
something about it. I wasnt given that opportunity.
Q Nick, is there any other things that you

that?
A I feel a pressure on my left side, on the left
side of my chest since I left the hospital. It feels
like a heavy bandage is tightening every day, and its
getting tighter and tighter.
Q When did you first feel that?
A After the operation at — at Indian River
Memorial Hospital.
Q When did you have an operation at Indian
River Memorial Hospital?
A Around the beginning of November or the end –
the beginning of November. The first week of November.
Q Does the — going back again for a minute.
The anxiety you talked about, does that
cause you any trouble during your daily living?
A It sure does.
Q Does it cause you trouble during the day
or during the night?
A During the day and during the night. It affects
my sleeping. I cant sleep on my back for any length
of time or either side. Im constantly shifting my
weight. And I find — I get relief when I shift my
weight.

on my back for any length of time, I get a pressure up
near my neck, like a tension pressure.
Q Can you describe it a little bit more?
A Well, Ive had tension pressures before years –
for whatever, and its that kind of a pressure, from
tension.
Q Is it any different from what it was
before?
A Oh yeah, its more severe.
Q And how often do you have that problem?
A Every night.
Q When did you first feel that?
A Right after the operation.
Q Its the same operation you talked about?
A Yes.
Q November?
A Yes.
Q You told us — well, do you have any
medical conditions? I think you told us you have
mesothelioma, correct?
A Yes.
MR. McGUIRE: Object to the question.
Q When did you learn you had mesothelioma?

 MR. HAEFELE: All right, lets go back
then.
Q Nick, do you have any medical conditions?
A I have mesothelioma.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
Q And when did you learn that you had
mesothelioma?
A When Dr. Woo-Ming and Dr. Tonner told me.
MR. McGUIRE: Move to strike.
Q Can you tell us what events occurred
immediately preceding or just preceding the time that
you found out that you had mesothelioma?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Well, when I had that — when I took out the
trash and I went to the doctor, I went to Dr. Grossman,
who was an internist. And they gave me an examination
and he said, I suspect you have a collapsed lung.
And he told me to go get X-rays down the hall and
return the X-rays to him.
I returned the X-rays to him and he told
me that, Your right lung — Your left lung is
collapsed and the cavity is full of fluid. And that
it would have to be drained immediately and, You have

A I went home, got my toiletries and some articles
and I was admitted to the hospital. And he followed me
to the hospital and he — he drained some fluid from my
lung and told me that Dr. Tonner would follow up
because Dr. Tonners a pulmonary doctor and he would
finish it up that weekend. He would complete it.
Q Can you describe for us how it was that
the X-rays were performed on you?
A Well, I went to the X-ray room and the
radiologist positioned me two different positions and
took X-rays, side view and a front view.
Q And what had Dr. Grossman told you about
your condition before you had the X-rays taken?
A He asked me about — he asked the history — he
asked my history, my work history, and I told him where
I worked and what I worked with, and he suspected — he
suspected mesothelioma.
Q Okay. And when Dr. Grossman told you
that, did he describe to you what mesothelioma is?
A Yes.
Q And what did he describe to you?
A He said that mesothelioma is a — is caused by
asbestos and it affects the lining of the lung.

mesothelioma meant for you as far as your health went?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. McGUIRE: I want to place an objection
to the prior question and answer.
Q Did he describe for you what mesothelioma
– what mesothelioma would mean as far as your health?
MS. DEZII: Same objection.
A He told me that thats a little outside of his
realm of expertise and that I would have to see an
oncologist or — about that.
Q Did he describe for you whether or not
there was any treatment for mesothelioma?
A No.
Q What did he say about that?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A He said that I would have to see an oncologist.
Q When Dr. Grossman told you that he
suspected that you had mesothelioma, did that affect
you in any — in any way mentally or physically?
A I was devastated. My — my bubble burst.
Q Why is that?
A Well, although I retired when I was 55 years
old, I was still — I still considered myself a young

 I bought a home in Florida, and that year
I went to Florida to stay, and that was going to be
my — my real retirement, so to speak. And it felt
like the whole world collapsed — everything collapsed
around me. My bubble burst. I felt very weak. I had
a cold sweat, and I didnt even know whether I could go
to get that X-ray done.
Q Well, did you have an understanding of
what mesothelioma was at the time that he told you
that?
A Vaguely.
Q And what was your understanding?
A That it was a cancer of the lung. I didnt know
it was a cancer of the lining. I thought it was a
cancer of the lung, but he told me it was a cancer –
the lining is diseased.
Q And when you were sitting having the
X-rays taken, what were you thinking?
A I was thinking that this is — this is it, Im
finished, because I know what cancer is all about. And
that I — I was devastated. I was distraught. I was
thinking that Im not going to be with my family much
longer. I was very upset.

 Can you tell us what you saw or what you
felt when that was happening?
A Well, he sat me on the edge of the bed and he
told me to bend — lean forward, and he gave me a
local, I guess, like a Novocain or whatever, and he –
with an instrument.
He punctured my back and he inserted a
tube and he was talking in a very low whisper to the
nurse and they were having a difficult time draining
the fluid. And he just took so much out. He didnt
take it all out, just enough, I guess, to get me
through until Dr. Tonner came in to finish it.
He said Dr. Tonner, thats his field,
pulmonary, and he would complete the operation, that
operation.
Q How did you feel when Dr. Grossman was
draining your lung?
A I felt that this couldnt be happening to me. I
was a very healthy man all my life and I was looking
out the window and I said, This is my retirement. I
came to Florida to die.
I often heard that, people go to Florida
to die. But I never thought it would happen to me, and

you were diagnosed?
A A couple weeks. A week — a week to ten days.
Q And tell us what happened after — after
Dr. Grossman drained your lung.
A He said that a pulmonary doctor will see you the
end of the week, and he would drain the rest of the
fluid out. And when Friday came Dr. Tonner was out of
town, or he couldnt make it, and he told me to go home
for the weekend.
I went home Saturday and Sunday. I did my
emotional thing with my family. I did my crying with
my family, and that sort of helped me a little bit. I
went to church. I prayed.
Monday morning, went to the hospital –
went back to the hospital and Dr. Tonner was waiting
for me. And he started the procedure that Dr. Grossman
started, punctured my back, put a tube — inserted a
tube. And it took over an hour, maybe an hour and a
half for this procedure, and again, I couldnt hear
what he was talking about with the nurse because it was
in a very low whisper.
And when he finished, he inserted this
tube and stuck it in a box that I had to carry around

measure the amount of fluid that they took from — that
was — and he also hooked up an air pump to help drain
the fluid.
And every day they would measure the
amount of fluid that was drained from my lung, and I
had to carry that box around with me. If I went to the
bathroom or if I took a little walk, had this long
tube, and I carried it out like a suitcase. I had to
walk — walk around with that.
Q Did you see anything running through the
tube or –
A I saw a red and — it looked like blood diluted
with water. It was a — red in color, pink maybe.
Q And how long did you have the tube in your
back?
A For a week. Before — right up to the operation
and after the operation.
Q Could you feel it in you?
A Well, I felt the pressure where they inserted it
into my back because of the bandage. I knew it was
there.
Q And how did they remove the tube from your
chest?

have to be very careful in removing the tube, he said,
because we could have a lot of problems.
I asked him, How are you going to stop
the air from getting sucked in? And he said, I
already made arrangements for that. I put a stitch
there. And when the nurse was pulling the tube out,
it looked like it was in there about a foot. It
felt — it took a long time for it to come out. And as
the tube came out, he just — the stitch that was
there, he tightened it right up to keep any air from
going into my lung.
Q Could you feel it?
A Oh yes.
Q What did it feel like?
A It was sickening. That was the worst — that
was the worst — of the operation and my whole stay
there, that was the worst part –
Q What did the –
A — removing that tube.
Q What did it feel like?
A It felt like someone was taking a rotor rooter
out of the side of my chest.
Q Did Dr. Tonner ever tell you what he

A He told me I had mesothelioma.
Q Did he explain to you at all what
mesothelioma is?
A Yes.
Q And what did you understand him to explain
to you?
A He told me that mesothelioma is incurative and
theres no treatment for it.
And there is a treatment, but if I was a
younger man, he would offer it to me. But for my age,
no.
Q And when he explained to you what you just
told us, how did you feel mentally?
A Well, I was distraught and I felt that thats
why Im terminal. Because if there was a treatment,
theres hope.
And when he sent me home, he didnt give
me any medication, not even an aspirin. And I said
that I would — my family and I, we talked about it,
and I would have to go for a second opinion.
Q Did you go for a second opinion?
A I went for a second opinion.
Q And who did you go to for a second

appointment with Dr. Scott. Shes in Vero Beach on
36th Street. Shes an oncologist. She confirmed
everything that my doctors had said.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q And how did you feel after that, when she
told you what she told you?
A Well, I felt bad, but she also said, The only
thing I recommend, that you have a CAT scan taken every
six months, and when I heard every six months, that
made me feel little better, because the doctors in the
hospital were talking a month or months, like two
months.
She told me to go home, and you have –
enjoy the quality of life you can while youre in this
condition because things will get worse later on.
Q And how did that make you feel?
A That didnt make me feel good. That didnt make
me feel good at all.
Q Did Dr. Tonner have any other tests or any
other procedures done on you?
A No.
Q Did — go ahead.
A Dr. Woo-Ming, whos a thoracic surgeon,

 Q What kind of operation did Dr. Woo-Ming
– did Dr. Woo-Ming do anything on you?
A Yes.
Q And what did Dr. Woo-Ming do on you?
A He told me that he was going to go inside my
chest and spray a talc, some kind of a talc on the
lining of my lung, and that he would position that lung
in its proper place and hopefully it will stay there,
and that would help me a little bit.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Move to strike.
Hearsay.
Q Did that — when Dr. Woo-Ming described to
you what he intended to do, did that cause you to feel
any way in particular?
A Well, I didnt like — of course, when you hear
that someones going to spray a talc on the lining of
your lungs, thats not going to make me feel very good,
but it had to be done. Hes my doctor and I went — I
had it done. He said it had to be done because, Your
lung is collapsed and it has to be positioned in a
proper spot, a proper place.
Q Describe to us what you felt when he
described the condition to you, or did he describe what

felt like I was a half a man. My activities would be
curtailed.
What does that mean, paste the lung up
against the lining of the chest cavity? Thats like a
temporary repair. Hes not going to cure me. And he
said, Hopefully it will stay there, hopefully.
Q Were you –
MR. McGUIRE: Move to strike the hearsay
portion of the response.
Q Were you awake when they performed the
surgery on you?
A No.
Q When you woke up after the surgery, how
did you feel?
A Well, I felt — I felt nauseous and sick for a
couple hours. And they kept me comfortable. They
tried to keep me very comfortable.
Q Nick, have you received any treatment for
the mesothelioma?
A No.
Q And why is that?
A Because the doctor said there is no treatment
for my mesothelioma.

regular basis?
A Im seeing Dr. Zimmer, whos an oncologist, and
Dr. Tonner.
Q And for what do you see Dr. Zimmer?
A He — I have X-rays taken, and he lets me know
how Im not progressing, how Im regressing.
Q Does he do anything for you?
A He gives me a — he checks the vital signs. I
dont know exactly what hes doing when he feels the
glands on my body. I dont know. He doesnt tell me.
And he said — he said — he tells me to go home and
see him in a month.
Q And how often do you see Dr. Tonner?
A Dr. Tonner I see every month.
Q And what does Dr. Tonner do for you when
you see him?
A I have X-rays taken and he puts the X-rays up
against the light and he proceeds to tell me how Im
regressing and how the tumors are growing. And I dont
feel very good when I leave his office.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Hearsay.
Q Nick, you said you go to see Dr. Zimmer
and Dr. Tonner every month, right?

either of the doctors, do you think about anything in
particular regarding your pending visit with a doctor?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Leading.
A I think about it when I leave his office up
until the time I visit him again.
Q Well, what do you think about?
A Well, Im expecting the worst. I fear going
back into the hospital. I fear being hooked up to
oxygen or to some kind of a drug, like morphine. I
fear all that.
Q What makes you think that you might have
to be hooked up to oxygen?
A Because I have a friend who has mesothelioma
and hes hooked up to oxygen.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection. Move to strike.
Objection to the prior question and answer also.
MR. HAEFELE: On the record off the
camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the objection?
MR. McGUIRE: I objected to the last
question, Counsel.
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the basis?

 an apparent condition of somebody whos not a
party to this case. Were not aware — hes
talking about another case.
MR. HAEFELE: Back on the camera.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, whos your friend that you say has
mesothelioma?
A Gaza Grebely.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
MS. DEZII: Objection to the relevancy.
Q And how do you know that Mr. Grebelys on
oxygen?
A He told me.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Nick, lets go over to when you went to
see Dr. Scott.
What did Dr. Scott do for you?
A She gave me an examination and she told me –
MR. McGRATH: I object to the hearsay from
Dr. Scott.
Q What did she do for you?
A She gave me an examination and she read all the
doctors reports. She looked at all the X-rays, and

 Q Nick, as were sitting here today, do you
know whether or not youre to undergo any treatments?
A Please repeat that.
Q Sure. As were sitting here today, do you
know whether or not you are to undergo any treatments?
A I dont know that. They told me there is no
treatment.
Q And how does it make you feel?
A It makes me feel bad.
Q And how is that?
A Well, if they could treat you, theres hope. If
they cant treat you, there is no hope.
Q Nick, can you tell us — can you give us
the benefit of what your educational background is?
A I have a high school education.
Q After high school, what was the first
thing that you did after high school?
A I went into the navy.
Q And that was the time period you told us
about earlier?
A Yes.
Q When you were in the navy, were you
exposed to asbestos?

your next job?
A I worked for Edison Battery.
Q And wheres that?
A Belleville, New Jersey.
Q When did you work at Edison Battery?
A March — September, 1947 to March, 1948.
Q And when you worked at Edison Battery,
were you exposed to any asbestos?
A No.
Q And when you — did you have another job
after Edison Battery?
A No.
Q Did you go to work anywhere after Edison
Battery?
A I went to work for Public Service Electric &
Gas.
Q And when did you start working for Public
Service Electric & Gas?
A May 10th, 1948.
Q And how long were you at PSE&G?
A 32 years.
Q When did you retire?
A June 30th, 1980.

A I started as a turbine operator, and after six
months I started working as a machinist. I was a
machinist approximately thirteen years, and after that
I became a boiler repairman, and I finished out my
career in Public Service as a boiler repairman.
Q What stations were you stationed at?
A I was stationed in Marion generating station,
home station, and Linden generating station as a home
station. But we traveled to other stations, which they
called area maintenance. We were — we had to work in
other stations when they needed us.
Q Did you have any other jobs at PSE&G other
than the ones youve just talked about?
A No.
Q What were your job duties when you were at
the Marion station?
A I was a turbine operator. I operated the
equipment, pumps, compressors, turbines, oil pumps and
some housekeeping, and took readings. Took readings of
various equipment, hourly readings.
Q Where were your readings done?
A In the powerhouse, in the boiler room, in the
turbine room.

 Q Did you work only in one particular area
in the powerhouse or did you work all over the
powerhouse, or how would you describe it?
A As a turbine operator I worked in every area of
the turbine room, and one area of the boiler room, the
high pressure boiler room, 51 or 52 boilers.
Q And what — when you went to the Linden
station, what were your job duties at the Linden
station?
A I was a boiler repairman. My duties were to
work on boilers, feed water heaters, pumps, air
compressors, turbo — the turbine work, and I worked on
all associated equipment in the powerhouse that is
needed to operate a powerhouse.
Q Okay.
A I worked all over the place.
Q I think I missed something actually.
Going back to Marion, you said you were a
turbine operator. What about when you were a
machinist, what did you do as a machinist?
A As a machinist, I worked all over the
powerhouse, boiler room, turbine room. We maintained
all the equipment that is needed to operate a

A The equipment was located in the turbine room,
in the boiler room and in the yard.
Q And when you worked at PSE&G what
materials, if any, were you exposed to when you worked
there?
A I was exposed to asbestos. I was — do you want
me to name all the asbestos products?
Q No. Were you exposed to asbestos?
A I was exposed to asbestos.
Q And how was it that you were exposed to
asbestos?
A Well, most of the time to get at the equipment
we had to rip away insulation. And the insulation was
made of asbestos, block, pipe covering, removal of
gaskets, installation of gaskets, that sort of thing.
Q Okay. Did you only remove them or did you
have to replace them or did somebody else do that? How
was that –
A We removed them and we installed them, the
gaskets. We removed the gaskets, we removed the
insulation, but we never — very — we very seldom
installed the insulation because in that station at
that time they had pipe coverers. That was their job.

 Q Okay. What about at Linden?
A In Linden we removed the insulation and
installed the insulation. Because now I had a
different classification. I was a boiler repairman and
that was part of my job specs.
Q When the pipe coverers were installing the
insulation at the Marion station, would you be working
near them?
A Right next to them.
Q And would you be — were you being exposed
to any materials that they would be creating?
A Yes, I was exposed to all the materials because
while we were buttoning up the job, they were doing
their job. They were doing their jobs, just like we
doing our job. We were right there. The stuff was
coming down like snow.
Q Nick, can you tell us what shapes of
asbestos products or what types of asbestos products
were you exposed to?
A I was exposed to pipe covering, block, gasket
material, firebrick, floor tile, rope, cement, joint
compound, asbestos gloves. Did I mention tape?
Q Can you describe for us — what does pipe

in three foot lengths approximately, and it looks like
two halves, like two half-moons, and they fit over the
pipe, the sides of the pipe.
Q Okay. And what about the block? What did
the asbestos block look like?
A Blocks were four to five feet long, maybe four
to six inches thick, and a foot wide.
Q And asbestos gasketing material you talked
about, what does that look like?
A Gasket material was gray in color and it was of
a hard substance and we had to remove that, and
sometimes we had to remove it with a wire wheel, and we
installed the appropriate gaskets back on the
equipment.
Q Okay. Can you tell us, was it — was the
gasketing material something that you would make or was
it something that was already made?
A Both. They came — they came — depending upon
the piece of equipment you worked on, you could get
it — you can get it from the storeroom and install it.
Most of the times we had to make it.
Youd go to the storeroom and youd get the size that
you needed. You take it off the roll, and with a

made the gaskets yourself, did that create any dust
when you would make them?
A Yes.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
Q Did you see the dust?
A I saw the dust.
Q And when you made the gaskets, did it –
did you inhale any of the dust?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A I breathed it. I inhaled it. I touched it. It
got on my clothing, more so during the removal. Like
sometimes a Flexitallic gasket wouldnt come off easy
and youd have to use a wire wheel or chip it off.
Scrape it off.
Q Lets go back.
Why dont you describe for me how you
would go about making, cutting a gasket?
A Well, if I needed a gasket two feet in diameter,
I would set my tool a radius of one foot, and
theres — and you find the center of the material, and
theres a razor on the edge of the cutter and you just
cut it for the outside diameter, and you do the same
thing for the inside diameter.

joint.
Q Okay. Can you tell us whether or not any
dust was created during the cutting process?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us, describe for us what the
environment was like when you would be cutting the
gasket?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
A Well, I wouldnt be working by myself. There
would be other workers in the area doing other jobs.
And there would be a lot of dust, asbestos dust and
other dust.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection.
Q And where is that coming from?
A Its either coming from below, above, or in the
immediate area.
Q Nick, why dont you describe for us what
the firebrick looked like?
A Firebrick looked like — looked like a — yellow
in color, about two inches thick, a foot long, and
three inches wide approximately. And it had the name
of the firebrick imbedded into the brick.

A France, and the other one was Green.
Q Was that the only name that was on it, or
was there other things on the firebrick?
A I think A.P. Green and J.H. — J.H. France.
Q How about the rope? What did the rope
look like?
A The rope looked like asbestos fibers wound –
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Objection –
A — wound in a rope fashion.
Q What did the floor tiles look like?
A The floor tiles were approximately nine to
twelve inches square and an eighth of an inch thick.
Q How about the cement? What did the cement
look like?
A The cement looked like — well, theres two
different kinds of cement. The cement in powder form
had to be mixed with water to the proper consistency.
And then there was also a paste cement.
Q Okay. And the joint compound, what did
the joint compound look like?
A The joint compound looked like — well, we had
to mix that with water also.
Q What did the cement look like before it

 MR. OTOOLE: Which substance are we
talking about?
MR. HAEFELE: I asked him cement.
Q Now, what I actually meant to ask you
was, what did the joint compound look like before it
was mixed with water?
A To my recollection, there was two different
kinds of joint compound. One was a paste and one was a
powder.
Q Is it the same thing as the cement, then?
A Yes.
Q How about the gloves? What did the gloves
look like?
A Gloves were gray, white in color, long gauntlet,
and they were ugly.
Q What did the material look like?
A It looked like asbestos fibers.
Q And how about the tape? What did the tape
look like?
A The tape was two inches wide and it came off a
roll. It looked like asbestos. We called it asbestos
tape. Everyone called it asbestos tape.
Q Can you tell us whether or not the work

products created any kind of a dust?
A It created a lot of dust.
Q What do you mean when you say it created a
lot of dust?
A The whole powerhouse was dusty. Even when work
wasnt done, the vibration from the boiler, the pumps,
the air compressors, the equipment being in service
created a lot of dust. The steam lines, the hot water
lines were constantly shaking, vibrating, and over a
period of years, that pipe covering gets loose and
that — just by the boiler being in service and the
equipment being in service, created a lot of dust.
And you could see it when the sun shines
into the window, you could see all these dust particles
throughout the whole powerhouse, no matter where you
went.
Q Can you tell us whether or not you were
exposed to any of the dust from each of the packages,
from each of the products that you just talked about?
A I was exposed to dust from every package that I
handled or other people handled.
Q Well, going back over the pipe covering,
the block, the gasket material, all the types that you

A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
A I inhaled it. I breathed it. I touched it.
Q Nick, did you do work yourself that
involved asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And what kind of work did you do?
A Pipe covering. I installed gaskets. I removed
gaskets. I — I used the jackhammer on the floor to
remove the slag and the brick.
Q Did you use the block yourself?
A I used the block.
Q Did you work around other people that –
where the other people were doing work that involved
asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And what kind of work were the others
doing?
A They were insulating asbestos block, pipe
covering, doing basically the same thing I was doing.
Maybe it was another gang, another group.
Q Whats your basis, how is it that you know
that the dust youre talking about is asbestos dust?

removing it, they werent too careful removing it.
The prime objective was to get to the
boiler, so they removed the block. A lot of it would
break. It would hit the steel flooring, filter
through, and maybe youd be working below and its
coming right on top of you.
Q How did you know it was asbestos?
A Because it looked like asbestos. We called it
asbestos. The bosses called it asbestos. They
referred to it as asbestos.
Every one of those products was referred
to as asbestos, asbestos block, asbestos pipe covering,
asbestos blanket, asbestos tape. Thats what they
called it.
Thats what I called it. Thats what I
saw on the boxes when it was delivered to the job site.
So it had to be asbestos.
Q How frequently were you in the area where
the asbestos work was being done?
A Most of the time.
Q What do you mean when you say most of the
time?
A Every job in the powerhouse, no matter what

boiler room or on the feed water heaters, everything is
covered with asbestos.
Q How close were you working to the people
that were doing the asbestos work other than yours?
A I was either above them, below them, or next to
them.
Q And how close would you be?
A A foot to six feet or ten feet. And above is
the next floor, I dont know how many feet a floor is,
or below me.
And you say, well, wouldnt the asbestos
fall down? The dust filters up. You could see it
filtering right up from the draft. The powerhouse is
very drafty, and you could — you could see that dust
coming up through the steel flooring.
Q Thinking back to when the people would be
working in your area right around you, do you remember
the work that they did creating dust?
A Yes.
Q And would you be inhaling that dust?
A Inhaling it, breathing it.
Q Was it the same way both at Marion and at
Linden?

A The same thing.
Q What type of equipment is it that youre
describing that had the asbestos insulation on it?
A Boilers, feed water heaters, pumps, air
compressors, turbines and all associated equipment
needed to operate a powerhouse.
Q Were you exposed to asbestos from these –
from these pieces of equipment?
A Yes, yes.
Q Tell me how you were exposed to asbestos
from the boilers.
A If we had a tube leak, we had to get to the skin
casing. To get to the skin casing, you had to remove
block insulation to cut a square hole out of the side
of the boiler.
The boiler was insulated by block, block
insulation, or you had to remove pipe covering if you
were working on a line thats connected to the boiler.
You had to make a weld on the pipe.
Q Can you give us some examples of how you
were exposed to asbestos on the feed water heaters?
A The most frequent exposure I had was when we
removed the head of the feed water, we had to cut down

was the biggest exposure, and associated pipe lines.
There was the pipe coming off the feed water heater.
We had to remove them also.
Q How about the pumps, when you were fixing
a pump, how would you be exposed to asbestos on a pump?
A Mostly by removing gasket material and
installing gaskets, and sometimes there was insulation
we had to remove. Not too much, but we had — to get
at what were doing, we had to remove some insulation
to rig it. Maybe to remove the cover, we had to cut
away the insulation.
Q What kind of insulation are you talking
about?
A Block, pipe covering.
Q Was there any insulation on the inside of
the pumps?
A The gasket material between the joint.
Q Anything else?
A Thats it.
Q How about the compressors? How would you
be exposed to asbestos from the compressors?
A The — by remove — we had to work on lines, air
lines, and sometimes we had to remove the asbestos from

pumps.
If we had to throw a sling around an
I-beam, and that sling would be rubbing up against the
asbestos, we would have to remove that asbestos.
Otherwise we — it would hinder your progress, your
work.
Q Lets go back to the boilers for a second.
Can you tell me, do you know who
manufactured the boilers that had the asbestos on it
you were exposed to?
A Yes. It was B&W, Foster Wheeler, C&E, AC&S,
Babcock Wilcox.
Q Whats an AC&S boiler?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Is that a boiler, AC&S?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Asked and
answered. Leading.
A Did I see — did I say AC&S?
Q Yes.
A Theyre contractors. I think theyre
contractors.
Q Okay. Lets go back, then.
So were clear, then, what boilers do you

 Q Whats B&W stand for?
A Babcock Wilcox. Combustion Engineering, Foster
Wheeler, and Riley boilers.
Q How did you know that it was a B&W boiler?
A By the nameplate.
Q Did all of them have nameplates on them?
A Yes.
Q Is that the way you knew the names of the
other boilers too?
A Yes.
Q Do you know who manufactured the feed
water heaters?
A Feed water, Foster Wheeler and Lummus. Foster
Wheeler and Lummus.
Q How did you know Foster Wheeler and Lummus
manufactured them?
A By the nameplate.
Q How about the pumps, do you know who
manufactured the pumps?
A Worthington pump, Ingersoll-Rand.
Q How did you know that Worthington and
Ingersoll-Rand manufactured the pumps?
A By the nameplate.

A Yes. And DeLaval, I worked on a DeLaval in
Marion.
Q What kind of piece of equipment was that?
A It was a pump, a feed water pump.
Q Now, Nick, thinking back over your career
at PSE&G, you told us about certain asbestos products
you were exposed to.
Can you tell the jury the names of the
companies that manufactured the asbestos products that
you were exposed to regularly over the 50s, 60s and
70s at PSE&G?
Lets start first with the pipe coverings.
Can you tell us the names of the asbestos pipe covering
you remember being exposed to?
A Owens-Corning, Owens-Illinois, Pittsburgh
Corning, Kaylo, Johns-Manville, Pabco,
Monoblock.
Q How about the block, what are the brands
of block that you remember being exposed to?
A Monoblock.
Q Is Monoblock a block or a pipe covering or
both?
A We used it as both. On the large diameter pipes

you described?
A No.
Q Or — no?
A No.
Q How does it come?
A In blocks, four to five feet long, three to six
inches thick.
Q That would be the block stuff you
described to us earlier?
A Yes.
Q How about the gaskets, who made the
gaskets?
A Anchor, Garlock and Flexitallic.
Q And the sheet packing, who made the sheet
packing that you described to us that you were exposed
to?
A Anchor and Garlock.
Q Can you tell us the names of the brands of
cement that you remember being exposed to?
A Stic-Tite, U.S. Gypsum, Ruberoid, Quigley, Gold
Bond, Armstrong, Super 7-11, Flintkote.
Q How about the joint compounds, do you
remember the asbestos joint compounds you were exposed

 Q Do you remember who made the gloves that
you talked about?
A Notte.
Q How do you spell that?
A N-O-T-T-E.
And there probably was other gloves, but I
remember that one.
Q How about the blankets, do you know who
made the blankets?
A No.
Q When did you work with the products? When
did you work with these products you just talked about?
A Whenever we worked on the boilers or the feed
water heaters, or whenever we worked on insulating
pipe.
Q Was there any particular time frame
throughout your career?
A I worked on — mostly when I was a boiler
repairman.
Q How about earlier on?
A No, only the removal.
Q Did you work around other people using
them earlier on or –

 Q With regard to the products you just
talked about, how would you know, for example, that it
was an Owens-Corning pipe covering?
A By the label on the box.
Q Would that go for the other pipe coverings
as well?
A Yes.
Q How about the cements, how would you know,
for example, that it was a Stic-Tite cement?
A By the label on the bags or the container that
it came in.
Q Would that be the same for the other
products that you talked about knowing the names to?
A Yes. And the bosses referred to it as the brand
name, and we referred to it as the brand name, the
workers.
Q And how did you know that the products you
just talked about, how did you know they contained
asbestos?
A Well, everyone referred to it as asbestos, the
bosses, the men. We talked — we always referred to it
as asbestos. And I know that asbestos has — is
supposed to have had good insulating qualities.

A Yes.
Q Did you use any of the products, any one
of the products, did you use any one of them any more
than any other product?
A I would say I used them all about the — equal
amounts. I cant say I used one more than the other.
That would be very difficult for me to say.
Q Nick, lets go back.
Can you tell us the names of the companies
that supplied the asbestos products, any of the
asbestos products that you were exposed to?
A A-Line, Guyon, Heller, Industrial Welding
Supplies.
Q Anything else you can think of?
A There were others, but thats the only ones I
can think of.
Q Can you recall when these companies that
you just named, can you recall when they supplied the
products of PSE&G?
A When we had a job on a boiler or we would — we
would see the truck pulling in certain stations.
Q Any particular years?
A Oh, no, I cant — I cant do that. It was

A It was with frequency. It was — whenever there
was an outage.
Q Well, can you tell us the names of any of
the companies that did any asbestos contracting work
at — tell us the names of any of the companies that
did any of the contracting work when you were at PSE&G.
A United Engineering.
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q Let me go back and ask you again.
Tell us the names of any of the companies
that did any contracting work when you were at PSE&G.
MS. DEZII: Objection.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
MR. HAEFELE: On the record, off the
camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Whats the objection?
MS. DEZII: It lacks foundation.
MR. OTOOLE: And in all fairness, Bob,
first you suggest what the other companies were
doing and then strike your question and ask
another question. I think its unfair.

 me ask it the way I asked it first, though.
MR. OTOOLE: It lacks foundation. Thats
all.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go back — off the
record. It was truly unintentional. I didnt
the question — off the record, yeah.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go back on and back on
the camera.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, can you tell us the names of any of
the companies that did any contracting work involving
asbestos at PSE&G?
MR. OTOOLE: Same objection.
A United Engineers, C&E, Foster Wheeler, Babcock
Wilcox, and Riley boiler, Riley Stoker.
Q How is it you recall the United Engineers,
for example? How is it you recall United Engineers
doing asbestos work at PSE&G?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Well, it was common knowledge when United
Engineers came in, just by — there was no label on any
trucks, but we knew it was either — the people that
worked for them, the union people, they worked for

 Q How did you know that they were United
Engineers people?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Its been asked
and answered.
A Because sometimes, not all the time, it was on
the trailer that they used for an office. Or someone
would come in and say, where is United Engineers
trailer, like that.
And we — there was a guy named Ski that
worked for United Engineers. When you seen him, you
knew it was United Engineers.
Q And what kind of work do you recall United
Engineers doing at PSE&G?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Youre not limited
to time. Youre not limited to job facility.
A They would work on the boilers or the air
heaters, on the boilers, all boilers. They did a lot
of boiler work, and feed water heaters.
Q Where would they do the work?
MS. DEZII: Same objection.
A In what station?
Q Yes.
A Marion, Bergen, Kearny, Linden and Sewaren.

A Yes.
Q What did you see them doing?
A They did the same work I — I performed, same
type of work.
Q Did any of the work involve asbestos?
A Yes.
Q How close were you to where they were
working?
MS. DEZII: Objection. Whos they?
A I was working next to them, over them, below
them, near them.
Q Would any of the work that United
Engineers workers be doing, did it involve — did it
create any dust?
A Yes.
Q Where was the dust coming from?
A It was coming from the boilers, or if they were
installing or removing a heater, it was coming from
that piece of equipment.
Q And did United Engineers workers use the
materials from your powerhouse that you were working
at, or did they bring in their own materials?
A They brought in their own materials.

A Yes.
Q Did the work that they did create any
asbestos dust?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A I breathed, inhaled and touched.
Q How often would you be exposed to the
asbestos dust from the United Engineers workers?
MS. DEZII: Objection.
A Every day they were on the property.
Q How did you know the names of the other
contractors?
A The same way.
Q And what kind of work were the other
contractors doing?
A The same as United Engineers, except Foster
Wheeler — Foster Wheeler, Im not sure, but I think
the only boiler they had was in Bergen, but they –
they never did any boiler work in the other stations,
only Bergen. Im — I think they had a Foster Wheeler
boiler in Bergen.

other equipment at any other stations?
A They worked on the feed water heaters at Marion.
Q And were you exposed to any asbestos dust
from the work done from the other companies?
A Yes.
Q Did you inhale the dust?
A I inhaled it, I breathed it and I touched it.
Q How close were you to where they were
working?
A From a foot to six foot to twenty feet.
Q And how often did you work in the area
where these other contractors were working?
A Every day.
Q Mr. Katsanis, have you worked since you
left PSE&G?
A No.
Q So youre not working now?
A No.
Q Do you smoke?
A No.
Q Did you ever smoke?
A Yes.
Q When did you smoke?

smoked, were there any warnings on the packages of
cigarettes then?
A There were no warnings on the cigarettes then,
on the pack. No.
Q So you never smoked when there were any
warnings on packages of cigarettes?
A I never smoked when there was — please repeat
that.
Q Well, you told me there werent any
warnings on the cigarettes.
A Yes.
Q So would it be fair to say you never
smoked when there was any warnings on cigarettes?
A The warning — I never smoked a cigarette when
there was warnings on the cigarettes. I quit in 1957.
There were no warnings on the cigarettes then, on the
pack.
Q Okay. Nick, at any time during your
career, did anyone ever tell you that you should wear a
mask or that you should wear a respirator in order to
protect yourself from asbestos dust?
A No one ever told me.
Q Did anyone ever tell you that working with

 Q Did anyone ever tell you that it could
kill you?
A No one ever told me.
Q Did you ever see any warnings on any
asbestos products saying that it could make you sick or
that it could cause you injury?
A I never saw any warning on an asbestos product.
Q Did you ever see any warning that said it
could cause you mesothelioma or any kind of lung
cancer?
A I never saw a warning at that time.
Q Nick, if you had seen a warning, or if you
had been warned by anyone that it could make you sick
or that it could kill you, would you have done
something different?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Yes.
Q What would you have done?
A I would have either quit my job or I would have
made sure I took every precaution not to get the
disease, or maybe go to a department where I didnt
have to handle that.
Q And why would you have done that?

the manufacturers like Owens-Corning ever come to the
workplace and tell you in any way –
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
Q — that they knew since the 1940s and the
1950s that asbestos could cause lung cancer or could
cause mesothelioma?
A No.
Q And how did you feel about the fact that
they knew about that information or kept that
information from you?
MR. MARINO: Objection.
A I feel betrayed.
MR. HAEFELE: Lets go off the camera for
a minute.
(Off the camera.)
MR. OTOOLE: My objection, youre saying
companies, and you really have a broad umbrella
as to all companies. Im not sure its
established that all companies had knowledge or
kept knowledge away.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. I understand your
objection.
Jack, I think you had one.

 concerned.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. If thats the only
objection — is that the only objection?
MR. CHAZEN: Objection is to form as to
the way you phrased the question.
MR. HAEFELE: I want to have an idea of
what it is. I mean, you can say objection to
form, but the fact is that were in the middle
of a trial at this point and I think its a
little bit more –
MR. CHAZEN: And Kevin expressed the
reason why.
MR. HAEFELE: Okay. And Im just trying
to clarify that thats the only reason.
Jack, did you have any?
MR. McGUIRE: The objection was stated by
counsel, was a general objection to form of the
question.
Id like to expand it a little bit. I
think that the question, as it was stated,
wasnt a conduct type of focus, which is
certainly irrelevant to the case and is
irrelevant to this proceeding, and its also

 what do you mean?
MR. McGUIRE: I think it stands for
itself, a speculative question. What he may
have done, what the witness may have done.
MR. HAEFELE: All right. Lets go back
on.
(Back on camera.)
Q Nick, how do you feel about the fact that
some of the companies knew about that information and
kept it from you?
MR. McGUIRE: Objection.
A Well, I feel betrayed. I felt they werent
being honest with me. I say me, because Im infected.
I got the disease.
And I think it was — like I said before,
I played by the rules and I dont think they played by
the rules, being honest with the product that I worked
with.
If I to go the store and it says poison on
it, I know how to treat that product. And when I
handled asbestos, I didnt treat it like it was going
to hurt me.
Q Nick, if you were told that a mask could

used it?
A Yes.
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
Q Why is that?
A If I decided to stay with the company and use
the product knowing what it did to me, I would have
used it to prevent from getting a disease. If it was
going to be dangerous to my health and it was going to
affect my health, I would use every means available to
keep myself from being diseased.
Q Nick, before you were diagnosed with the
illness in October, 1993, did you enjoy any activities
that you did?
A Oh yes.
Q What kind of activities did you do?
A I didnt have hobbies. I did a lot of fishing
up in New York State. My activities was with my
family. I enjoyed my family. I enjoyed my home. I
enjoyed the things I did around my home.
I did extensive gardening. I dont mean
planting tomatoes and peppers and corn. I did
extensive — I liked — I liked to be with the earth.
I planted trees, shrubs. I was very — that was my

They had cars. I worked on their cars. My family, we
were — were very closely knit. We were wrapped
around each other. And that was my lifestyle. We
always did things together, when my boys were young.
My wife and I always did things together.
Now thats all curtailed. Went on
vacations.
Q Do you do any of these things differently
now from what you did before?
A Oh yes.
Q Can you tell us, for example, how is the
gardening different now from before?
A I dont do any gardening. I cant. Im
physically unable to do it. I contract it out.
The gardening that I had done in Florida
was done prior to my illness, and now I contract — I
dont do any gardening. I contract the grass cutting
out.
Q Did you do gardening — did you do
gardening in New York?
A Oh yes.
Q Why dont you describe for us what you did
in New York?

best landscaped house in town.
Q And who did the landscaping?
A I did all the landscaping.
Q Can you tell us what you did?
A I had — I cut down all the pine trees that were
growing wild and I trimmed them all to a sharp point.
Everyone in town admired that. I had a lot of comments
on it.
I tore up all the old shrubs, planted all
new shrubs. I took care of it every day. I thinned
out the woods. I made the place look like a dollhouse.
Q And did you do any kind of gardening down
in Florida?
A Yes. The first four years I ripped out all the
old stuff they had there and I did my own planting
around the house, foundation planting, and the lawn was
in.
And I contract the lawn out to be done by
someone else. I cant do it anymore.
Q Nick, Im a little confused. Maybe you
can clear something up.
You said that you went down to Florida
just before you were diagnosed, but now youre

A Yes.
Q Can you tell us why were you doing
gardening down there before you got down there?
A Because I enjoyed it.
Q What Im trying to get at is, when did you
move to Florida?
A 1988.
Q Okay. Were you living down there full
time in 1988?
A No, I was six months in Florida and six months
in Youngsville, New York.
Q And when did you move down to Florida full
time?
A October, 1993.
Q And why were you living six months one
place and six months another place?
A Well, I wanted to enjoy the best of both worlds.
I didnt want to be around the snow. I left in
November and came back in May.
Q And when you eventually moved down to
Florida full time, why did you do that?
A Because I was — Im much older. When I retired
I was 55. I was pushing 70, and it was getting too

real retirement age, 70, and I was still feeling pretty
good.
And this is what we always wanted to do,
to go to Florida permanently and spend our golden years
there, my wife and I.
Q Okay. Let me go back to the gardening for
a minute.
You said that you dont do that anymore
and you contract it out. Why is that?
A Im physically unable to. I get winded. I get
short of breath. I get tired. Its a — its a
laborious task now to do it, even light gardening. I
cant do light gardening. I find it very laborious.
Anything laborious I dont enjoy.
Anything thats — its like a job. Its work. I
cant do it. It takes too much out of me.
Q Since your diagnosis with the condition
that you have, have your activities around the house
changed at all?
A Oh yes. I do — I dont do any maintenance in
the house. I cant — I cannot perform any maintenance
around the house anymore.
Q Well, did you used to do the maintenance?

to do?
A I did carpentry, plumbing, electrical work,
cement work, plumbing.
Q In the house youre in now, does it call
for any of that kind of work to be done?
A Yes.
Q Do you do that work still?
A No.
Q Why dont you do the work?
A Im unable to.
Q What do you mean when you say youre
unable to?
A Well, I had to contract a roof out. I was able
to do it. I planned on doing it. I contracted that
job out.
Q Why did you do that?
A Because I was unable to do it. I was physically
unable to do it.
Q What do you mean when you say youre
physically unable?
A Well, it was exhausting, it was very exhausting
because of my condition.
Q Has your family life changed in any

 Q How so?
A Well, my social life has changed. We dont go
out to dinner much. I used to go — I used to like to
go out to dance once, twice a week. We dont do that
anymore. I used to go swimming three, four times a
week. I dont do that anymore.
I participated in church activities,
primarily the festival we have down there at my church,
which is a three, four-month preparation, and thats
been curtailed somewhat. Because theres a lot of work
to be done. And I just cut down on my — all those
activities.
Q Other than the swimming, are there any
other physical activities that you used to do regularly
that you dont do anymore?
A I used to walk five miles in the morning, five
miles in the evening every day.
Now I walk with — with my doctors
permission, I walk a mile and a half.
Q Well, why is it you dont walk the five
miles anymore?
A Im unable to. I get exhausted. I tire. And
again, it became — it became laborious. It became

intimidating. Im afraid something is going to happen
to me.
Q Do you still go to the dances like you
talked about?
A No.
Q Why not?
A Well, dancing tires me out. Its very tiresome.
And if I do go, I just have dinner and we leave. I
dont dance.
Q What kind of dancing did you like to do?
A Well, the 40s and 50s, you know, swing. I
like to do polkas and I like to do old fashion waltzes
and rumbas and like that.
Q What kind of work did you do for the
church? You said something about the festival?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us what you did?
A We start preparing for the festival in December.
We do most of the cooking. We do most of the baking.
We have the facility. We have freezers.
Then when — the festival is usually in
February, and I used to assist my friend who did all
the electrical work. I helped him put up all the

tables. We would rent the tables and tents and we made
sure that the light — the proper lights were installed
for those proper tents, and things like that.
Q And do you work on it anymore?
A No. What I do, the three days of the festival,
I just wipe trays. Thats my limit. I just wipe the
trays. And the people get their food and they put the
tray on the table. I wipe and clean them and I set
them on the side and someone takes them away. Thats
all I could do.
Q Nick, let me ask you, has your
relationship with Anna changed at all?
A Yes.
Q And how has it changed?
A Well, we sleep in different beds.
Q What do you mean by that?
A Were not sexually active.
Q And why is that?
A Because Im unable to be sexually active.
Q Has it changed in any other fashion? Are
there any things that you used to do together that you
dont do anymore?
A I would say we — we do everything together, you

 Q And when did you go to Epcot?
A A couple years ago.
Q Do you have any plans to go on vacation
now?
A Yes.
Q What plans do you have?
A Id like to go to Nashville this Christmas.
Q Has your diagnosis affected your plans in
any fashion?
A Yes.
Q How would you say that?
A Well, Im a very positive man. I dont say
hopefully Im going to go to Nashville. I say Im
going to Nashville.
Now, if I dont make it, I dont make it.
But Im very positive. Im going to Nashville and Im
going to make plans to go to Nashville. And Im going
to meet my son there and were going to spend maybe a
week there.
When the doctors talking to you in
months, theres not much plans you can make. But
Dr. Scott gave me some kind of hope when she said, Id
like you to get a CAT scan every six months. That

 Q Thank you, Mr. Katsanis. Thats all I
have for you right now. I think some of the other
people, when we go around the room, will have questions
for you.
(Recess.)

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. OTOOLE:

Q Good afternoon. My name is Kevin OToole.
Im from the law firm of Picillo & Caruso, and my law
firm represents several defendants named in your
lawsuit. I have some follow-up questions for you.
You indicated you currently live in
Florida. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q There was some testimony going back and
forth and some confusion on the part of your attorney,
and I think the rest of us, as to when exactly you
established residence in Florida.
And youve indicated you spent the last
five years, six months in Florida and six months in New
York. Is that correct?
A Yes.

recall?
A I made Florida my domicile in 1989.
Q Now, when you say you made it your
domicile, can you explain it to me?
A My mailing address. That was my official
address, my voting residence.
Q That was my next question. You voted in
Florida since 1989?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And thats been the case from 1989
to the present, is that true?
A Yes.
Q And in which town or towns has that been
made true in Florida since 1989?
A Vero Beach.
Q Have you had only one address since youve
been in Florida for the last five years, just the Vero
Beach address?
A While I was in Florida?
Q Yes.
A When I went back to New York, my address was –
Q Okay.
A — Box number, Youngsville.

Dr. Tonner?
A Tonner.
Q And where does Dr. Tonner practice?
A In Vero Beach at the Doctors Clinic.
Q In Vero Beach, okay.
And you mentioned a Dr. Woo –
A Woo-Ming.
Q Woo-Ming. And where does
Dr. Woo-Ming practice out of?
A Vero Beach, 36th Street.
Q And youve indicated youve had a recent
procedure or surgery performed upon you, is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And where was that done?
A Indian River Memorial Hospital.
Q And where is that located?
A Vero Beach.
Q And prior to establishing a domicile in
Florida you indicated that you spent some time in New
York, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And was your domicile prior to Florida,

 Q And where in New York was that?
A Youngsville, New York.
Q And where is Youngsville located?
A Ten miles west of Liberty.
Q And how long have you been a resident of
New York?
A Fourteen years.
Q And when was the first year that you
established residence in New York?
A 1981.
Q And from 1981 until you left to go to
Florida, did you establish and did you maintain a
domicile in Youngsville?
A Yes.
Q And that was the only home that you
occupied during those years in New York?
A Yes.
Q Okay. You indicated that upon questioning
from your attorney, that you did some housework
throughout the years at your various homes. Is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And one of the statements you made, that

correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And what did you do with the cement
or the cement work on those homes?
A I put in a block patio.
Q And when did you perform that?
A 1981.
Q And do you know if that was an
asbestos-containing cement that you used with the
patio?
A They were preformed blocks. I laid in sand.
Q Did you use any cement product?
A No.
Q You indicated you had done cement work?
A Well, it was cement block.
Q Okay.
A A foot and a half cement blocks.
Q Do you know if the cement block had
contained asbestos?
A I dont know.
Q You dont know, okay.
And you also indicated on your Direct
testimony that you had done some brake work with some

 MR. OTOOLE: Im sorry, car work. Im
sorry, Bob.
Q You did some repair on cars –
A Yes.
Q — is that correct?
Did you do any brake work, any repairs?
A Never.
Q Did you do any clutch work?
A Never.
Q When your cars needed brakes or clutches
serviced or maintained or replaced, where did that work
get done?
A In the garage.
Q In the garage?
A Yes.
Q And that was never your job?
A No.
Q You indicated that you retired in 1980?
A Yes.
Q And you were of the age of 55?
A Yes.
Q And you havent worked since 1980, is that
correct?

this June it will be fifteen years?
A Yes.
Q You mentioned briefly this morning that
you served sometime in the navy, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And in your previous testimony two days
ago you indicated that you had served in the navy for,
I think, 34 months. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And during those 34 months, you indicated
you served aboard two ships, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall the name of those two
ships?
A The U.S.S. Mount Hood and the U.S.S. Luna.
Q And during your 34 months in the navy,
where were you stationed?
A I was stationed ten months in Guantanamo Bay.
Q And where is that?
A Cuba.
Q Cuba, correct, okay.
And were you on board any ships during
those ten months?

barge?
A Deck work.
Q Okay. During those ten months, did you
live aboard that water barge?
A Yes.
Q To your knowledge, were you exposed to any
insulation materials on board the water barge?
A No.
Q Were there any insulation materials
present on board?
A No.
Q And you indicated that you spent some time
on the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall during which years you were
on the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A July, 1944 to November 10th, 1944.
Q And you remained on board the U.S.S. Mount
Hood from July, 1944 to November 10th of that same year
throughout?
A I lost my ship November 10th, 1944.
Q When you said you lost your ship, what do
you mean?

board the U.S.S. Mount Hood, in what capacity did you
serve?
A I was a seaman and I operated the captains gig.
Q Okay. And on board the U.S.S. Mount Hood,
is it fair to say there was insulation on board on some
of the piping?
A I was never in the boiler — I dont know. I
was never in the boiler room.
Q Did you ever see any insulation on any of
the piping throughout the U.S.S. Mount Hood?
A I believe I did.
Q Okay. And did you ever have to repair,
replace or come into contact with any of that piping?
A No.
Q And you indicated you spent some time on
the U.S.S. Luna, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during which years or months
did you spend on board that?
A January, 1945 until February, 1946.
Q And what type of ship was the U.S.S. Luna?
A It was a cargo supply ship.
Q And what did you do on board?

insulation on some of the piping on board the U.S.S.
Luna?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever happen to go into the boiler
room on occasion?
A No.
Q Did you ever do any repair or replacement
work?
A No.
Q When you were on board the U.S.S. Mount
Hood and the U.S.S. Luna, were they dusty environments?
A No.
Q Was there any vibrations throughout the
ship with — concerning either the boiler room or some
of the equipment utilized on board?
A Vibrations?
Q Vibrations.
A There was vibrations on the Mount Hood.
Q And do you know where the vibrations were
coming from?
A Loading and unloading ammunition.
Q And did you ever do that, loading or
unloading of the ammunition?

some point in time, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And when was that?
A September, 1947 to March, 1948.
Q And youve indicated in your previous
testimony that you worked at Edison Battery for about
nine months?
A (Witness nods head.)
Q Is that correct? You have to verbalize
your response.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during that time, your
testimony was that you were helping in the making of
producing of batteries, is that correct?
A No.
Q Im sorry. Why dont you tell me what you
did at Edison Battery?
A I worked in shipping. I put the appropriate
container on the appropriate battery.
Q When you say the appropriate container,
can you just explain that to me?
A Batteries come in different sizes.
Q Right.

of battery.
Q Were you involved in the actual — was
that considered the production or the tail end of the
production of the battery?
A The battery was completed when I got it.
Q And the container that you were involved
with, was that to house the entire battery?
A Yes.
Q And the plant itself, can you describe the
Edison Battery plant when you worked there?
A I was only exposed to the cafeteria, the hall,
the locker facilities and the shipping department.
Q And where did you actually perform your
duties?
A The shipping department.
Q Did you ever go throughout the plant at
any point in time?
A No.
Q You never went into the production
portion?
A Never.
Q Do you know whether there were any
insulated pipes throughout the plant, maybe the

A I would say in the cafeteria they had a steam
scullery, so they would probably have insulation. I
dont know, but Im assuming.
Q And were there any other pipes that had
insulation throughout the plant, other than in the
cafeteria, to your knowledge?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q And did you ever come into contact with
any of those products?
A No.
Q While working at PSE&G there did come
occasions that you wore a mask, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And why during those occasions did
you wear a mask?
A It was excessively dusty.
Q A couple of days ago you were in a similar
situation and you had a series of questions asked about
you concerning your work history and your personal
history and your medical history. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And at that time you gave truthful and
accurate answers, is that correct?

of your ability, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And at that time you spoke in some detail
about the work that you performed on the various pieces
of equipment, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you spoke about the various contact
that you believe you had with various pieces of
insulation, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And concerning the equipment, you
indicated in some detail some of the contact you had
with some of the boilers, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you detailed your testimony at that
time, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And the same held true for the
pumps that you mentioned, is that true?
A Yes.
Q And the feed water heaters?
A Yes.
Q And the other pieces of equipment that you

 Q And you spoke in some detail at that time
about the various pieces of contact that you had with
your equipment, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And to your knowledge, was that the sum of
your contact, or the nature of the contact that you had
at the plant that you described for us?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Would you repeat that question?
Q Sure. That was an inartful question.
MR. HAEFELE: Well, let me –
MR. OTOOLE: Let me ask a question, Bob.
Q You spent some time, it was actually a
very long day last Wednesday, and you spent some time
detailing the various contact that you had with the
boilers and the various pieces of equipment.
And is it fair to say that you had given
us at that time your complete knowledge as to your
contact with that equipment?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
MR. OTOOLE: Off the record.
MR. HAEFELE: Sure, off the camera.
(Off the camera.)

 that every question was asked about all of the
jobs that he did.
I would say that it would be fair to ask
him if he answered all the questions that were
asked as completely or whatever, but to assume
that every question was asked about every aspect
of his job may be assuming too much.
MR. OTOOLE: Bob, the reason Im asking
him that is because I want to try to save some
time here and not go through the same type of
testimony he already elicited on Wednesday.
If its necessary for me to go through the
various type of contacts or various types of
experiences he had with the equipment, Id be
happy to do so, but I was just trying to frankly
circumvent that and just –
MR. HAEFELE: In all fairness, I just
dont want you to be saying that hes testified
to more than he did on Wednesday. To say that
he testified, you know, extensively and that
sort of thing, I think thats fair to say.
It was a long time, but I dont know what
was left out because I — you know.

 MR. HAEFELE: I dont know that anything
was left out either, but I wouldnt want to say
the defense counsel asked every single question
under the sun, although I think they probably
did.
MR. OTOOLE: I think youre right.
Back on the record, please.
(Back on camera.)
Q Have you had an opportunity to read over
your transcript of the deposition that took place two
days ago?
A What was taken place two days ago, no.
Q You havent had an opportunity to review
your responses?
A Read my responses?
Q Yes.
A No.
MR. OTOOLE: Okay. I have no further
questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. OSHAUGHNESSY:

Q Mr. Katsanis, my name is John

 With reference to your time at the Marion
station, when you were a machinist, I believe you
testified two days ago that you were a machinist for
approximately thirteen years, is that correct, from
about 1948 to 61?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And during that time as a
machinist, you had occasion to go to, I believe you
stated — and correct me if Im wrong — two other
stations.
Do you recall that testimony?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you went to, I believe you
stated you went to the Bergen station two times during
that period, the thirteen-year period from 48 to 61.
Do you recall that, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you also went to the Kearny
station of PSE&G on one occasion?
A Yes.
Q Do you know how long that was, that period
at Kearny?
A It was a short time. I cant recall how long.

station, is that correct, sir?
A Yes.
Q And you also went, I believe, on one
occasion, I think you were rather precise, in 1956 for
approximately one month to the Sewaren station,
correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, at the — you also testified
two days ago that at the Bergen station on the second
occasion there, which I believe you stated — and Im
quoting you — may have been or maybe was two months.
MR. HAEFELE: If youre going to quote,
give a reference, please.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Sure. I believe that
was page 57, line 25.
MR. HAEFELE: Just objection to the
question.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
Q You stated that you may — maybe you were
there for two months. Do you recall that testimony,
sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And on that occasion you stated you

 Do you recall that, sir?
A Packing, gaskets and the pipe covering, yes.
Q Now, would you describe for us the packing
that you came in contact with on that second occasion
at the Bergen station?
By that I mean, you know, the color, the
texture.
A The color was gray, and I also handled
Flexitallic –
Q Right.
A — gaskets. And sheet packing is gray.
Q Okay. So that were not confusing both,
lets just talk about the — lets talk about the
gaskets, okay?
A Okay.
Q Now, you had previously described in
answer to a question from your own counsel, you
described the gaskets as gray in color, hard substance,
in describing it.
Do you recall that testimony, sir?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, when you personally handled
the gasket materials, was it hard and slippery? You

 Q Was it hard and slippery?
A It was hard.
Q Could you further describe it?
A It could be slippery. You could describe it as
being slippery, like graphite, a graphite substance.
Q When describing the gasket, would that
apply also to the Anchor gasket?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And would that apply to any other
gaskets that you worked with at the Bergen station?
A The Anchor and the Garlock –
Q Okay.
A — were like the same.
Q Now, when you went to the Bergen station,
you worked with the Garlock gasket on only one
occasion. Isnt that correct, sir?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A One day?
Q On one occasion.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Counsel, for the
record, its page 64, line 8 of your clients
testimony.
A I might have worked on the job, but — I might

 Q I understand. Let me just read you the
question. Maybe it will refresh your recollection.
MR. HAEFELE: Let me just –
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Sure.
MR. HAEFELE: Off the camera.
(Off the camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Im not sure for what
purpose youre using his prior testimony at this
point, and thats what I have a problem with.
Now, I dont know that its appropriate
for you to sit here and quote his prior
testimony to him under the circumstances under
which youre doing this.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Well, we havent
established from my question how many times he
used it. Ill ask that question, then, and then
if it agrees with his prior testimony, then I
wont have to use it.
MR. HAEFELE: All right.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
(Back on camera.)
MR. HAEFELE: Why dont you tell me where
it is?

 Q On how many occasions did you replace the
packing materials that you used on the pumps at the
Bergen station?
A Numerous times. I cant name you numbers. I
never counted them. I never kept a log.
Q Okay. Let me just read your prior
testimony from page 64, line 8, for the benefit of
counsel.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Ill put the whole
thing in context, Counsel, to be fair to you.
Actually we should start, then, at line 63 –
page 63, line 16.
Q You were asked:
QUESTION: What did it look like on the
old Garlock material?
Thats the Garlock material that you had
stated that you had removed.
ANSWER: It looked like the material I
replaced it with.
QUESTION: Were there any marks on it
identifying it as Garlock on the old material?
ANSWER: No, not on the old material, not
on the Garlock.

 similar appearance. Is that correct?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: And you replaced the old
material with Garlock packing?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: And what type of equipment
were you working on when you did this?
ANSWER: Pump.
QUESTION: And if you can recall, how
many occasions did you replace the packing on
the pump during the period of time you worked at
the Bergen facility on the second occasion?
ANSWER: Once.
Is that correct, sir –
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
Q — that it was only one occasion?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection to the entire
question.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Okay.
Q The objection is noted, so you can answer.
A Are you asking me did I just install one gasket?
Q Im just asking you, sir, how many times
did you replace the packing on the pump during the

here, a flange here. Wherever the line came into the
pump.
Q Okay. So this answer, then, is incorrect,
your prior testimony, that it was only on one occasion?
A Well, I meant that to be that one job.
Q When you say one job, sir, are you talking
about the second time that you were there?
A Yes, the one pump.
Q Thats what Im — thats the frame of my
question. Were only talking about that one time?
A That one pump.
Q Okay. Did you work on more than one pump
on that one section?
A No, I worked on one pump.
Q Okay, thank you.
Now, would that also be true of gasket
materials that you worked with? Did you work with
gasket materials on the second occasion that you were
at the Bergen station?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And do you know who manufactured
that gasket material?

description that you would give for all three types of
gaskets?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A No.
Q The Anchor, the Garlock and the
Flexitallic?
A Flexitallic was different.
Q How was Flexitallic different?
A It had a metal ring on the inside and it was the
color of light blue and the substance looked –
asbestos, had an asbestos look to it.
Q Okay. And –
MR. OTOOLE: Objection to the response.
Nonresponsive. Calls for speculation.
Q With reference to the Anchor gasket, was
that still the same texture, hard and somewhat
slippery –
A Yes.
Q — that you previously described?
A Yes.
Q Would that also describe the Garlock
gasket material?
A Yes.

 When you removed packing material from a
flange, would it be fair to state, sir, that you could
not identify any lettering or any logo on the material
itself because it was an old material that had gone
through, say, wetting and drying cycles?
A Sometimes you could see the markings; sometimes
you couldnt — sometimes you couldnt.
Q Okay. But with reference to the Garlock
material that you removed, you were not able to
identify that particular material, any marking on it
that said it was a Garlock product, isnt that correct
sir, as you previously testified?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Well, sometimes we recognized the material.
Now, if youre asking me on that particular job, I
cant say for sure, but we recognized it.
I didnt take a special look and putting
my head — 20 years down the road theyre going to ask
me if that was there. I saw markings sometimes, and
sometimes I didnt and thought nothing of it.
Q Okay, sir. But again, were just talking
about old material that you were removing.
A Yeah.

removing a Garlock packing material, based on markings?
A I removed Garlock and Anchor Packing in the
Bergen station.
Q Okay, sir, but my question is, are you
able to recall any specific markings that said it was a
Garlock or an Anchor product?
Just markings Im talking about.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection. Do you have a
time or place that youre referencing?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Were talking –
Q Let me make that at the Bergen station,
and then Ill follow that up.
A At the Bergen station?
Q Right.
A That was a new station when I worked there, and
those — that gasket was fairly new. And I would say
the markings were still on there.
Q Okay. But do you have an independent
recollection, sir, of a gasket that you removed from a
flange and it had a marking on it that identified it as
coming from Garlock or Anchor?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A I cant recollect, no.

materials, from a question by your own counsel. Do you
recall that, sir?
A Yes.
Q Using the gasket cutters, radius of one
foot, and then the razor is — it was a razor, right?
A A razor, a single edge razor.
Q That would be a pretty sharp razor, as we
know razors, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you would cut on the outer edge?
A Yes, the outside diameter.
Q And then the inside diameter?
A And then the inside diameter.
Q Right. And would it be a fair statement,
Mr. Katsanis, that that was — because it was a razor,
that was a pretty straight — that was a pretty sharp
cut, would you say that?
A Yes.
Q And was that a cutter that was supplied by
PSE&G that was there on the job that you would utilize
all the time?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And there were, in fact, two types

worked at, precut or preformed, and also there would be
the sheet gasket material that you previously described
for us?
A Sheet material and the preformed gaskets are the
same substance, same material.
Q Okay. Did you have — you named three
different companies. Did all three different companies
manufacture a preformed gasket?
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
A Flexitallic did, Anchor did and Garlock did.
Q Okay. And the preformed gaskets, where
would you get those from?
A The storeroom.
Q Okay. And typically, you would use a
preformed gasket on what type of equipment?
A Pumps, feed water heaters, air compressors, on
different flanges on the turbine.
Q Would it be a fair statement that you used
preformed gaskets on most of the equipment that you
worked at at the PSE&G station?
A No.
Q Which stations would you not — what type
of equipment would you not use preformed gaskets on?

storeroom. We dont have to make them.
I only made them when they werent
preformed.
Q Exactly. Okay.
A Yeah.
Q If they were preformed, obviously thats
the easiest way because they didnt have to be cut or
manipulated. You just installed them, correct?
A We — we made most of the gaskets. Id say a
good percentage of the gaskets we made.
Q Well, when you say a good percentage,
could you be more precise? About what percentage, as
opposed to the preformed gaskets?
A I cant tell you percentage. But most of the
gaskets we made.
Q But you cant give us a percentage?
A No.
Q Okay. And when you got the gasket
material, were there any markings on the material?
A Yes.
Q What kind of markings?
A Some — well, it had the name of the company.
Some were in black and some were in red, the name.

A Yes. From a 64th of an inch to an eighth of an
inch. 64th, 32nd, 16th to an eighth.
Q And the eighth of an inch would be –
would be the thickest?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you, on those different
thicknesses, you always used the gasket cutter,
correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, you made reference to dust and
you stated that dust was coming from above you and
below you and to the sides of you, correct?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall where this dust was
coming from that you previously testified to?
A It could have been coming from a line that a
gang was working on below, above or on the sides.
Q Now, when you say a line, just for the
benefit of the jury, youre talking about a –
A A steam line, a pump, a compressor, a feed water
heater or other equipment needed to run a powerhouse.
Q But when you saw the dust, you couldnt
tell where the dust was coming from; you just –

correct, sir?
MR. OTOOLE: Object to the question and
object to the response being its unresponsive.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: Well, he hasnt
given –
MR. OTOOLE: Well, the first response.
Its hypothetical, when you say could have
been. I dont think were dealing with could
have been.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I agree with you,
Counsel.
Q Lets talk about the dust, where it came
from, that you previously testified to.
You dont know where that dust came from,
do you?
A Yes.
Q You have no independent recollection, as
youre testifying here today, where it came from on any
given occasion, thats what Im saying.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection.
Q Go ahead.
A I could tell where the dust was coming from.
Q You have specific recollection of where it

 Q On different dates?
A Not on different dates, no.
Q Just –
A On different occasions.
Q Just a general recollection, isnt that
what it is?
A No.
MR. HAEFELE: Objection. I mean, if you
have a definition of what you mean by the two,
maybe we can understand it better.
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I dont understand
your objection, Counsel.
MR. HAEFELE: Well, Im objecting to your
differentiation between general and
specific, and I dont know what you mean.
Q With reference to the rope that you used,
Mr. Katsanis — am I pronouncing your name correctly?
A Yes.
Q Okay. How did you know — you had
previously testified that it was asbestos fibers. How
did you know it was asbestos fibers?
A It looked like asbestos fibers. We called it
asbestos. The supervisors called it asbestos.

for you what asbestos fibers looked like, did you?
A No.
Q Youve never seen asbestos fibers under
any kind of a microscope, have you?
A No.
Q Now, you used this asbestos rope, I
believe, in the coal fire stations, is that correct,
sir, on access doors, I believe you testified to?
A We used it in oil fired stations also.
Q Okay. And this type of rope, what was the
diameter of the rope?
A Well, depending upon what piece of equipment we
were working on.
Q Okay. Well, give us the diameter like you
gave us the dimensions for the thickness of the sheet
packing — of the sheet gaskets.
A Okay, from a quarter inch to one inch.
Q Okay. And did you personally handle that
rope?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Would it be the same type of
texture that youve described for the gasket materials?
A No.

A It was very fibrous.
Q And what color was it?
A White.
Q And did you cut that rope also with a
gasket cutter?
A No, with a knife.
Q With a knife, okay.
And were there any markings on the rope
itself, any type of markings or writings that you can
recall for us?
A No.
Q Now, on those occasions, sir, when you
used a wire wheel to remove gasket materials, would it
be a fair statement that you couldnt tell the
manufacturer or brand name of that material that you
were wire wheeling from the flange, or wherever it was
that you were removing it from?
A You could tell. The name would be on it. Youd
get the face of it off, but the part up against the
flange, it wouldnt come off whole.
Youd have to have a clean surface to put
the other gasket on. It would have to be a clean
surface. And to get the remainder of the residue off,

 Q And how often did you use a wire wheel?
A I personally used it on every joint that I
scraped a gasket from.
Q And at what stations did that — would you
do that?
A All the stations.
Q And the markings on this material, what
type of markings? Did it have dimensions, a name?
A Sometimes it would say Anchor or sometimes it
would say Garlock.
Q Okay. Did it say anything else?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection. Asked and
answered.
Q The question is, did it say anything else
that you can recollect?
A I cannot recollect any other name.
Q Okay. Any other writings other than the
name? Anything else? Any logo?
A A pair of calipers, a marking of calipers,
something like that I remember vaguely.
Q Calipers?
A Yeah, a picture of a caliper, outside calipers.
Q When you were at the Marion station the

A Only if we cleaned condensers. Sometimes we
would replace a gasket.
Q But that wasnt — that was not a frequent
thing?
A No. I didnt do any maintenance work, heavy
maintenance work as a turbine operator.
Q When you worked on the lines that youve
testified to, did you personally remove the insulation
on the lines?
A At what point?
Q Well, lets talk about the time when you
were a boiler repair person.
A I removed the insulation.
Q And was that a dusty process?
A Very dusty.
Q And what did you remove the insulation
with?
A The insulation was wrapped with stainless steel
wire, and with a pair of pliers I undid the wire,
clipped the wire off, and I physically handled it and
passed it down.
Q And with what frequency did you
personally — during the time now that you were a

A At what frequency?
Q Yes. Lets take a week, a month.
Would you do it — was this something you
would do every day, three times a week, five times a
week?
A I wouldnt do it every day, but sometimes I
would, and sometimes I wouldnt do it for a month, and
sometimes Id do it for the next three days, on and
off, like that. You were taken on and off the job
frequently.
Q And what instrument would you use to
remove the pipe insulation?
A Just cut the wire, the stainless steel wire.
Q And after cutting the wire, what would you
do then?
A I would remove the insulation with my hands.
Q And you also testified to removing block
from boilers, is that correct, sir?
A Yes.
Q Was that a dusty process?
A Yes.
Q And would you bring us through, how would
you remove the block from — the old block from the

The same way. We cut the wire and we removed the
insulation trying to save most of it. And we would
stack it on the grating next to the boiler.
Q Did you ever personally use cement that
you believed to have contained asbestos?
A Yes.
Q And did you personally mix that cement?
A Yes.
Q Was that a dusty process?
A Yes.
Q And how often did you personally mix
cement during the course of your time as a boiler
repairman?
A As — whenever there was an insulation job. We
always used cement.
Q And with what frequency, say, during the
course of a month would you use — would you personally
mix cement?
A The same –
MR. OTOOLE: If you know.
Q If you know.
A Well, whenever I had an insulation job, like the
answer I gave you before, I used cement.

have to do? Take us through the steps.
A Okay. Get a bag of Stic-Tite or cement and put
it in a pan or a wheelbarrow and mix it with water
until you got the proper consistency that you could
work with, and with a trowel we would put it on the
joints.
Q And how large were these bags?
A They were between 30 and 50 pounds.
Q And did you personally remove the cement
from these 30 or 50-pound bags into a wheelbarrow, or
whatever you were mixing it in?
A I did it sometimes and sometimes my co-worker
would.
Q At what point in time did it become dusty?
A Whenever I cut the bag or when we dumped it into
the wheelbarrow or the pan or we disposed of the bag.
Q And do you believe the cement to have
contained asbestos that you worked with?
A Yes.
Q On any occasion did you ever work — you
told us that you worked on the outside of the boiler.
Did you ever work inside the boilers at all at any
time?

A Yes. From 1962 to 1980.
Q And do you recall where you worked inside
boilers, at what station?
A I worked inside boilers, inside of boilers in
Linden generating station and Sewaren generating
station.
Q Can you give us your best approximation of
the time period that were talking about, say, at the
Linden station?
A What was the question?
Q Yes. You worked — you stated you worked
inside boilers –
A Yes.
Q — at the two locations, Linden and I
believe you stated Sewaren?
A Sewaren.
Q Okay. Now, lets take the Linden station.
Can you give us your best estimate or
approximation of the time period during which you
performed this work inside boilers?
A The time period? I dont understand.
Q The years. What decade?
A Every year.

A Yes.
Q And that would be from 61 to the time you
retired?
A Yes.
Q And was this on one occasion or many
occasions during your time at Linden that you were –
actually did work inside the boiler?
MR. OTOOLE: Objection.
A I dont understand the question.
Q Sure.
A What do you mean by one or many occasions?
Q You say you worked inside boilers. Was
this on just one job that you were in there and you
left and you were never did it again at Linden, or did
you go back in on other occasions?
A Oh, I went back in on other occasions.
Q Can you give us your best approximation of
how many times you performed work inside a boiler?
A I cant do that. I never kept a log. Numerous
times.
Q Was it more than ten?
A More than ten.
Q What type of work — were talking now

A Worked on boiler tubes, worked on the boiler
front, the registers, worked on the floor, boiler
floor, removal of slag and brick from the boiler floor,
worked in the super heater section, worked in the
economizer section.
Q These are all sections inside the boiler?
A Inside the boiler.
Q Now, would you state for the jury so that
they have some idea of what the inside of a boiler
looks like, how tall would the space be and how wide?
MR. OTOOLE: Are you talking about all
the same boilers now?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: No, were talking
about the boilers that he worked on inside — at
the Linden station.
MR. OTOOLE: Is it just one boiler that
he worked on, or were there various boilers?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: I will clarify that,
Counsel.
Q How many boilers did you work inside at
the Linden station?
A Six.
Q All six boilers?

manufactured by?
A B&W and Riley.
Q All six?
A No.
Q How many were B&W?
A Five.
Q And Riley Stoker was one?
A Yes.
Q And you worked inside all six?
A Yes.
Q When you worked inside, lets describe the
insides of the B&W boilers, the dimensions.
A It was approximately the size of this room, and
it had — on some of the boilers they had a division
wall.
And picture those blinds all around as
being boiler tubes, two to two and a half inches in
diameter,
I cant recall. And they go up eight — eight stories.
Q And when you worked –
A And on the floor they also had — below the
brick they had boiler tubes running the same way as the
boiler sides.

A Yes.
Q When you worked on the floor, what did you
do on the floor?
A We broke up the floor. We broke up the brick,
removed it so we could get to the — if we were just
replacing a floor and no — and not do any boiler work,
not do any boiler repair work, we would strip the floor
down to the boiler tubes and remove the debris and put
new firebrick in.
Q Okay. When you worked — you also stated
you worked in removing slag?
A Yes.
Q What is this slag? Would you be more
precise and describe it for us?
A Its the residue from the fuel that the company
used.
Q Did that create a dust, the slag, when you
removed it?
A It created some dust.
Q When you worked inside the boilers –
whether its on the tubes, the flooring, or the slag –
did you ever wear any kind of respirator or a mask over
your face?

trigger that occasion when it was too dusty?
A If there were too many people, if there was a
large group of people, or there was two jobs at one
time going on.
Q And can you give us an estimate of how
many people would be working in there with you on an
average occasion?
A Four to six. Sometimes youd get five, six men.
Q Would they be performing similar type work
to the work you were performing?
A No.
Q What kind of work would they be
performing?
A Well, we would rotate the jackhammer because
thats a tough job. And then we would have people
picking up the slag and put it on the conveyor or
taking it out in buckets. Maybe we would have two
jackhammers going or three.
Q And at what point in time would you start,
would you wear a mask or a respirator?
A When we got down to the firebrick, it got pretty
dusty if you had two jackhammers going.
Q And tell us more precisely what kind of a

yellow band on it, two bands to keep it up against you,
and a little metal piece to form around your nose.
Q Now, did you essentially perform the same
type of work when you worked inside the boiler at the
Sewaren plant?
A Yes.
Q And how many boilers were at the Sewaren
plant?
A Five.
Q And who manufactured those boilers?
A The four boilers in the main building Im sure
were C&E.
Q We dont want you to guess now.
A C&E.
Q Okay. And the fifth boiler?
A I dont remember.
Q And again, what you have described for us
as to this work inside the six boilers at Linden, was
that essentially the same type of work, or was it
different type of work that you performed at Sewaren?
A The same kind of work.
Q Was it the — were the dimensions of the
boilers essentially the same, or was there any

were smaller, and the fifth boiler was much larger.
They were the largest of them all.
Q And again, would you give us some idea of
how large they were?
MR. OTOOLE: Which boiler are you
referring to?
MR. OSHAUGHNESSY: The larger boilers
that he referenced to.
THE WITNESS: The larger boiler that I
dont know the name of. Number five unit.
Q Okay. Was it larger or smaller than the
ones at Linden?
A Larger.
Q And on how many occasions, can you
estimate for us, you performed work inside those
boilers at Sewaren?
A Oh, I cant do that because that wasnt my home
station. I couldnt give you a figure.
We were — we were in Sewaren quite a few
times, you know. Over my 20-year period or 19-year
period, with frequency I was in Sewaren.
Q Okay. So again, you would not be able to
estimate for us the number of times you actually did

numerous times.
Q Okay. Now, you retired in what year, sir?
A 1980.
Q And you have not worked since that time,
correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Now, when you went to these other
stations, did you ever go on what they called outages?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And would those be the occasions
which would bring you to another station?
A Most of the time they were outages.
Q And to explain to the jury, would you just
explain what an outage is? Is that an emergency
situation?
A No, thats not for me to determine. Its the
company determines whether thats an emergency.
Q And what is an outage?
A An outage is when the boiler comes out of
service and has to be repaired and its not in use.
I dont know about the emergency part.
Thats not –
Q Okay. I have nothing further.

 MR. McGUIRE: This is on the record, not
on the tape.
I made an objection earlier, Bob, when
Mr. Katsanis was talking about another person,
Mr. Grebely. I understand that the reporter may
not have gotten some of my objection since I was
a little bit far away. I just want to make sure
its clear.
I wanted to object to that testimony by
counsel because I think its improper to
interject another individuals medical case into
this one. I think its irrelevant, prejudicial,
and by its nature would call for hearsay.
I also dont believe that Mr. Katsanis is
qualified to discuss medical causation of
witnesses, and certainly its beyond the realm
of his capabilities.
MR. HAEFELE: With regard to Mr. Grebely,
most of the people here are probably the same
defendants. I just want to make it known that
you all have seen that weve made a motion for
an expedited trial in Mr. Grebelys case, and
were going to seek to have this case tried with

 objections to that.
MR. HAEFELE: By me telling you now, Im
putting you on notice that maybe, you know,
regardless of your objections to my request, you
may want to go out and start getting any experts
you have ready or anything like that. And we
can proceed the same way and make sure we get
together any materials that you folks need.
MR. OTOOLE: Okay.
(The witness is excused.)
(The deposition is concluded
at 12:50 p.m.)

* * *

 _C___E___R___T___I___F___I___C___A___T___E

I, MIRIAM ALFANO, Notary Public and
Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of New
Jersey, do hereby certify that prior to the
commencement of the examination

NICHOLAS KATSANIS

was duly sworn by me to testify the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth.
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing is
a true and accurate transcript of the testimony as
taken stenographically by and before me at the time,
place and on the date hereinbefore set forth.
I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a
relative of nor employee nor attorney nor counsel for
any of the parties to this action, and that I am
neither a relative nor employee of such attorney or
counsel, and that I am not financially interested in
the action.
_______________________________________
Notary Public of the State of New Jersey

Fords, New Jersey 08863 (908) 738-8555
JOB # 404083