Mesothelioma Deposition

COUNTY OF NEW YORK : I .A .S . TERM : PART 17

a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ e _ _ ..

IN RE :

N .Y .C . ASBESTOS LITIGATION AS RELATES TO :

MA12IO MALTESE, ET AL,

July 15, 1993

S E F Q R E :

HON . WALTER M . SCHACi{MAN,

Justice, and a Jury

(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED .)

DUPLICATE

FILE COPY

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Markawitz - by plaintiff - Direct

examined and testified as follows :

THE CLERK : May I please have your

full name?

THE WITNESS : Gerald, G-e-r-a-1-d, E .

Markawitza M-a-r-k-o-w-i-t-z .

THE CLERK* Home address, please .

THE WITNESS : 260 West 97 Street, New

York, 14425 .

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR . PLACITELLA :

Q Good morning, Dr . Markowitz, how are you?

A Good morning .

Q Ill ask you to keep your voice up because

~of the air conditioners . I dare not approach you

because Ive bean subject to mishaps in the last

(couple of days, so Im going to stand right here and

just ask that you speak as loudly as you can .

Now, you currently live in New York

City?

A Yes, I do .

Q Are you a lifelong resident of New York?

A No, I am not .

Q Where did you grow up?

A I grew up in the Bronx and --

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

THE COURT : Thats part of New York

State .

THE WITNESS : But then I moved out of

New York .

Q You mooed out of New York for a time?

A S moved out of New York to go to college

and graduate school, and there T lived in New Jersey

for approximately 18 years or so .

Q And now youve came book .

A Now Ive come back .

Q And where do you currently work?

A I work at John Jay College of Criminal

Justice, which is part of the City University of New

York,

Q How long have you worked there?

A Ive worked there fag 23 years .

Q And what do yoga do at John Jay College,

whats your job?

A I am a professor of history at John Jay

College .

¢ Flow long have you taught history at John

Jay College?

A For the same 23 years .

Q Do you have any other appointments at any

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other uni versities currently?

A I am also part of the faculty of the

Graduate Center of the City University of New York .

A No, Z am nab currently teaching .

g whats an appointment?

A It means I am considered to be of

scholarly worth to be able to teach at -- to teach

graduate students .

Q It is goad for them to have you on their

rolls, is that basically it?

A Yes .

Q Could you dell the jury what your

A Z have a bachelors degree from Earlham

College, which is in Indiana, anti a masters degree

and a Ph . D . from the University of Wisconsin .

Q What is your bachelors degree in?

A History .

Q What is your masters and your Ph .D . in?

A Both of those are in history as well .

Q And what was your thesis in?

A My thesis was in American foreign policy .

Q I call you Dr . Markowitz out of respect

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

because youre a Fh .D . You are not a medical

doctor, is that true?

A Z am got a medical doctor .

Q Nom, have you ever conducted any

historical research yourself?

A Yes . For the entire dime that T have been

working at John Jay College, 2 have been conducting

historical research .

Q And what kind of historical research have

you done?

A Over the past 8 to 10 years I have been

working on the history of occupational safety and

health,

4 And have you done any other work other

than that in the area of your specialty, history?

A Yes . Prior to that I worked far

lapproximately 10 years an various federal mural and

~sculpture projects that were sponsored during the

I!great depression .

Q In feat, one of the projects had to do

with the mural right downstairs .

A Thats correct .

Q Now, the last 10 years youve concentrated

on the history of occupational safety and health, is ,

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

that correct?

A Thats correct .

Q Have you ever received any grants fox

historical research?

A Yes . The National Endowment for

Humanities has

Q Whats a grant, before we start?

A A gram 3s manes that is given to my

institution, to John Jay College, to hire

replacements for me so that I could spend the time

doing research and nab do my beaching .

Q Who has given grants so you could go out

and do historical research, what organization?

A The federal government gave me grants,

which is the National Endowment for Humanities . In

addition, the university has given grants to support

travel for research and xeraxinq .

Q Now, have you ever published any articles

as a result of the historical research that youve

done?

A Yes . Ive published several articles .

Q And could you give us an approximate idea

of what they deal with?

Bid any of the articles that youve

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

published deal with the history of occupational

safety and health?

A Yes, several of the articles deal with the

history of occupational safety and health .

Q Have yon mover published any books relating

to occupational safety and health?

A Ive published three backs relating to the

history of occupational safely and health .

Q All right . I see Mr . Cairns has gone

through the trouble of going to the library and

getting a couple of your books . Ts this one of your

books, Dying Far Work?

A Yes, that is one of my books .

Q Whats this book about?

A This book is a collection of essays by

myself and other historians dealing with various

aspects of the history of occupational safety and I

I health .

Q This says that it came from the New York

Public Library . Then another book is called Deadly

Dust . Did you author this book as well?

A Yes, co-authored that book .

q What does this book deal with, Deadly

Dust?

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

A That back deals with the history of

silicoses, which is an occupational disease, and it

covers the period from the late 19th century to the

present .

MR . PLACITELLA : For the record, it

is dram the Science Department of the

Mid-Manhattan Library .

g 3o if anyone wanted to find the things you

published they need only go to the library .

A Thats correct .

Q Now, in your bank -- both of your books,

you have a coauthor, David Ras.ner . Who is David

Rosner?

I, A David Rosner is also a professor at the

,City University of New York . He teaches at Baruch

College and also at the Graduate Center .

I

g What is his educational background, if you

A He has a masters in public health from the

University of Massachusetts, and a Ph .D . in the

history of science from Harvard University .

Q And why is it that you and Dr . Rosner

collaborated is these publications?

A Dr . Rashers specialty is in the history

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

of public health and history of medicine ; my

specialty is in the history -- social history and

intellectual history, so its a combination . Were

looking at the history of occupational health not

simply in medical terms, but also how it relates to

workers and industry and insurance companies, a wide

view of these areas .

how, what -- in putting together these

books, Deadly Dusk , and your articles, the book,

Dying For Work , and the articles, what historical

methods do you employ? What do you do? How do you

get to the final product?

A Wall, we begin by reading books that have

already been published and articles that have

already been published about the subject matter that

were interested in, for instance occupational lung

We would also then go to libraries

that have what historians call primary sources, the

documents themselves that are generated by either

the insurance companies or unions or industry about

these subject matters, and we go through those

document collections, which are often quite

extensive, and select the relevant documents, and

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then collect all of those documents and tell a

coherent story about the subject matter that were

concerned with .

Q You say insurance . You mean the

IIMetropolitan Life Insurance Company is one?

A Thats right .

Q Thats a life insurance company,

A Right .

Q Now, are you familiar with an organization

known as The Industrial Hygiene Foundation or

industrial Health Foundation?

A Yes, I am .

I

I Q And when is the first time that you came

i

into contact with any information concerning The

Industrial Hygiene Foundation? i

A I would say probably about six or seven I

lyears ago in the course of our research about

!~silicosis we found references to the Industrial

IHygiene Foundation and its prior name, The Air

Hygiene Foundation, anri d attempted to find out more

Ilabout it because it seemed to be very important in

the history of occupational health .

Q And have you in fact commented on The

Industrial Hygiene Foundation in any of your prior

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I Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

publications?

A Yes . In Deadly Dust we have quite a bit

of analysis and discussion of the Industrial Health

Foundation and The Industrial Hygiene Foundation .

Q At same point in time in the not too

,recent past, did I game to visit you to ash you to

~do research, further research concerning the history

of the Industrial Hygiene Foundation?

i A Yes, you did . i

Q And did you do that research at my I

(request?

I

Q And did you use the same historical

methods of conducting that research or extensive

research that you used in patting together the

,various books and articles that you published in the

past?

A Yes, we did .

Q Could you tell the jury, in conducting

your research did I also ask you to research the

history of something known as The Kon3cide Club .

A Yes, you did .

q Can you tell the jury what sources, what

did you do, where did you go, what did you look at

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

1-in conducting your historical research concerning

The Industrial Hygiene Foundation and/or The

Koniaide Club?

A We wept to first libraries that were in

New York, wend to the New York Public Library, we

went to the Columbia University library, we went to

a specialized engineering library on 47 street, and

then in addition, we wend to the national archives

and looked through the records of the united States

Public Health Service and the United States Bureau

of Mines where we had seen some reference to it

being involved in the Industrial Hygiene Foundation,

and we also went to Pittsburgh, which was the

headquarters for The Industrial Hygiene Foundation,

and examined their records at both the University o£

Pittsburgh and at the Mellon Institute .

Q Is it fair to say you reviewed numerous

A Very, very many documents .

Q Far too many to bring with you today?

A Yes, hundreds if not thousands of

documents .

Q Now, the national archives, thats in

Washington, correct?

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

A Thats correct .

Q And daring the -- is the information that

you found and looked at the kind of information

relied upon by experts such as yourself in farming

historical opinions?

A Absolutely .

Q And you put a lot of time into this for me

over the last eight or nine months, true?

A Thats correct .

Q And I compensated you for your research

A Yes, you did .

Q And you are being compensated for your

testimony here in court .

A Thats correct .

Q And haw did the income that you received

in terms of the last year compared to other years as

it relates to doing work far say lawyers? Have you

ever done work for lawyers before that?

A Never had done work for lawyers before .

Q It wasnt that unpleasant an experience,

was it, doctor?

A No, research is research .

Q And did you reach opinions about how the

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Markoxitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

(YHF and The Konicide Club came about and what its

(purposes and goals were?

A Yes, I did .

I Q And, doctor, when you testify here before

the jury, Z would ask that you state all your

opinions within a reasonable degree of certainty

within the confines of your disciplines . Do you

junderstand that?

A YES .

Q Now, doctor, youre not here to give any

expert testimony about the history of asbestos

disease or the historical literature on asbestos

disease, are you?

And youve never primarily published in

the area of asbestosis. or other asbestos lung

disease?

A No, I have nod .

Q Now, you understand that your testimony is

limited to historical origin and purposes of The

,Konicide Club and The Industrial Hygiene Foundation

and its predecessors?

A Yes, I understand that .

Q Thats why I ask you focus your attention

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

on that . Now, what is The Konicide Club?

A The Konicide club was a group of

researchers, scientists, who were concerned about

dust and dust diseases in the early 1930s .

Q And in the course of your research, was

there a lot of information available about The

Konicide Club?

A There is very little information available

about The Konicide Club .

Q What did you find in doing your research,

which kind of information?

A There was an article that was published I

think in 1972 by two of the participants in the

Konicide Club that gave a brief history of The

Konicide Club . Thai. was the major piece of

information that we used .

Q And did Y also supply you with a couple of I

documents that Z obtained from the national archives

that also referenced The Konicide Club?

A Yes, you did .

Q Would that be the kind of information that

a historian would rely upon even if it was given to

him by a lawyer?

A YES, it 2.8 .

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

q And could you tell the jury when The

Konicide club was founded?

A The Konicide club was founded in 1932 .

Q Could you explain to the jury what the

ward Konicide stands far?

A Konicide is a word thats made of a Greek

and a Latin ward, The Greek word is the Koni part

of it, which is Greek, the Greek ward is kania,

(which is dust, and oide names from the Latin, like

homicide, meaning killer or killing, so the

(combination together would be killer dust club .

8a the killer dust club, thats the

translation of this organization that was founded in

1932?

I A Yes .

Q Do you knave who any of the members were of

the killer dusk. club from your research?

A . Yes . There were approximately 20, 25

members of the club .

Q Do you know whether or root Westinghouse

was ever a member of the killer dust club?

A Westinghouse was a member of The Konicide

Club, yes .

Q And were there other members from industry

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

also, doctor?

A Yes . There were members from the -- a

member from The Norton Company, which was an

equipment manufacturer . There were members from

insurance companies tike Metropolitan Life, and

another insurance company .

Q Were theta people there from academia?

A Yes, there were a couple of people from

Harvard University .

g Were thane any people who worked in

government at the time?

A Yes, there were members of the club who

were part of the united States Public Health Service

and the United Stakes Bureau of Mines .

Q Now, in other parts of the trial we heard

about the Saranaa Laboratory . Were any members of

the Saranao Laboratory a member of this club?

A Yes, them were T think several members of

Saranao that were members .

Q Plow, could you just give the jury a brief

description of what the purpose of the club was

based upon your research .

A The purpose of the club was to share

information by these people who were studying dust

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

(diseases to try and learn mare from each other about

ithese dust diseases, and in one case they gave a

talk to an industry group to try and tell that

industry group about dusk diseases .

j q Nom, doctor, there as nothing wrong with

(what The Ranicide Club was about, is there?

A Absolutely not .

Q They sad and discussed dust diseases .

A Thats correct .

There is nothing nefarious or anything

(like that .

A No .

Q Now, is one of the killer dusts that were j

discussed at The Kanicide Club asbestos?

A Yes, that was one of the busts that was

discussed at the club .

Q Haw do you know that?

A There is a document in which they list

(what the various panels discussed at one of the

meetings 3n 1339, and all of the papers on that day

or two days related to asbestos .

¢ Zs this the document that you are talking

about, this 2935 document?

A Yes, thats correct .

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

Q And its send to a13 members of The

Konicide Club?

A It seems to have been .

Q It says, Send to a21 members of The

Konioide Club .

And it lists the agenda for the meeting,

correct?

A thats right .

I Q December 27, 1 9 38 . And it lists a number I

!~of articles that are going to be discussed and by I,

,who, true?

A Thats correct .

I Q General Survey of the Asbestos Industry,

IExperimental Pathology Concerning Asbestosis by

IIGardner, Clinical Survey of the Asbestos Industry by

I~Sayers and Dreesen, Discussion a£ Pathology in

Patients Dying with Asbestosis, etc . .

Now, you are not familiar with the

underlying articles, are yon, doctor?

A No, I am note

I Q Youve never read them?

I A Z have never read them .

Q Thats not your function here .

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

A Thats correct .

Q Is there any doubt in your mind, doctor,

having done the research, that the members of The

Konicide Club -- Im nod saying there was anything

wrong -- including Westinghouse, knew that asbestos

was a killer dusk?

MR . CAIRNS : Objection, your Honor,

to what any individual participant may

have known at that dime . I dont think

this witness can comment on that*

THE COURT : overruled .

A They certainly -- the name of the club was

the killer dust club, and one of the articles

think near the bottom talks about dying, pathology

of dying patients from asbestos disease .

Q Just to satisfy Mr . Cairns, number six

says Discussion of the Pathology of Patients Dying

with Asbestosis .

A Thats the one .

MR . PLACITELLA : Ill have that

marked and offered at a separate time .

q Now, lets move away from the Konicide

Youre familiar with an organization

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I Markowit2 - by Plaintiff - Direct

,known as The Air Hygiene Foundation .

A Yes, I am .

Q What is The Air Hygiene Foundation?

A The Air Hygiene Foundation was a group of

,primarily industrial -- industry sponsored that was

else dealing with the problem of dust diseases in

the 1930s .

Q And when was The Air Hygiene Foundation

formed, what year?

A It was formed -- it was incorporated in

1935 and was in the process of formation from 1934

through 1935 .

Q And do you know whether or not

Westinghouse was a founding member of the Industrial

Hygiene or biz Hygiene Foundation?

A It appears in their first list of members,

yes .

Q And am I correct -° and Im net sure Z

heard you sap this 9- the reams changed over time?

A Yes .

Q What did the name change to and when?

A In 1941 the name became The Industrial

Hygiene Foundation, and in 1968 the name became The

Industrial Health Foundation .

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

Q Now, from your research, can you tell what

the motivating farce was behind the original

,formation of The Air Hygiene Foundation?

A Yes, I can .

, A In the early 1930s, dust diseases were

considered the major industrial problem in the

United States, They were a big problem bath because

I

Ithey caused a tot of sickness to people, and because

!the people who were getting sink were suing the

companies that they worked for, and noose companies

were threatened with bankruptcy, and the insurance

(companies that insured them were also being

(threatened financially, so many of these industries

I believed that they needed to came together to

develop a way of dealing with what they called a

liability crisis . They believed that this was a

(crisis for industry .

i Q And you say there ware dust diseases .

,What were the dust diseases specifically if you know

what they were concerned about .

A The most important dust disease in the

(early 1930s was silicosis, and next to that was

asbestosis, but there was a lot of fear that other

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

(dusts would also cause disease, although there

wasnt as much research abort whether other dusts

Iwould cause disease or rat .

Q Now, Im going to show you a document

lentitled The Problems , by Alfred C . H3rth . Could you

dell me what that is?

I A Alfred xfrth gave an address called The

I~ Problem at an organizing meeting of what became The

Air Hygiene Foundation in -- an January 15, 1935 .

Where did you get this document from,

doctor?

A This document I got dram a colleague at

Carnegie Me2lon University, and he got it from the

archives of Carnegie Mellan .

It says on the side Carnegia Melton

archives?

Q Zs this the kind of document you would

normally rely upon in conducting historical

research?

A Yes, it is .

Q Who was fir . Hirth, who did he work for?

A Mr . Hirth was an attorney who worked for

Ovens-Illinois Glass Company, and he describes being

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Markawita - by Plaintiff - Direct

faced with many lawsuits around the issue of dust

diseases .

Q Essentially what weve just discussed

here .

A Yes .

MR . PLACTTELLAo And Ill publish

this at some paint in time later for the

jury, pour Honor .

TAE COURT : All right .

Q Now, after The Industrial Hygiene

Foundation was formed -- nab the original formation

but afterwards -- what was the stated purpose it

gave to tie public about what it was about?

A The industrial -- at this time The Air

Hygiene Foundation talked about its concern for

conserving worker health, for advancing the field of

industrial hygiene, far just generally cooperating

among industry to deal with the problems of dust

diseases .

Im going to show you whet I have marked

as P-ZHF 574, a document entitled What . Why and

Where . Is that a document that you found in the

course of your research?

A Yes, it i s .

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

Q And does this discuss what The Industrial

Hygiene or Air Hygiene Foundations public face was,

so to speak?

Yes, it does .

Q Now, you said that one of the things was

to conduct scientific studies and investigations and

to find ways to prevent occupational diseases, and

thats reflected in that document .

A Thats correct .

Q Now, youre not saying to this jury there

is anything wrong with that, is there, doctor?

A Absolutely nod .

Q Thats a good thing .

A Yes .

Q And did they in fact do that from what you

could tell?

A They did in foot do research into dust

diseases . They did research in germs of preventing

dust diseases . They wire definitely involved in

that activity .

¢ And, doctor, internally to the IHF and the

Air Hygiene Foundation, were there additional

purposes or agenda that were not emphasized to the

public?

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

A Yes, there were .

Q And what were they?

A They were purposes that were not so much

emphasized because they were very concerned about

who was doing the research . They waned to have

same kind of control aver who was doing research

because who was doing research had an effect on what

was getting out, what was being publicized and the

,discussion of tie whale subject of dust diseases .

They were also very -- the part that

Iwasnt emphasized so much was their concern about

legislation that would remove the danger of

liability suits for the industry .

Q One of the functions internally was to

I~help fight claims?

A One of the the functions was to help to __

for industry to ban together to fight claims, yes .

Q But they still did these good things

publicly, true?

A They still did these good things, yes .

Q Now, I want to show you whats been marked

P-IHF 588 and 552 . Could you tell me what these two

documents are anti where you got them from?

A Yes .

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

MR . PLACITELLAs Ill remark them

with the Courts stickers later .

TAE COURT : You want to mark them

into evidence later?

MR . PLACIfiELLAr Yes, just to move

things along .

THE COURT*. these will be deemed

marked .

A These are documents that were mailed to

prospective members of The Air Hygiene Foundation,,

and we found these in the national archives in the

records of the United States Public Health Service .

Q And they are the documents that -- some of

the documents you relied upon for statements about

what was emphasized internally?

A Thats correct .

Q And lastly, Z want to show you a document

with my marking, P-ZHF 540, and if you can tell me

what that is .

This is a lager urging a company to join

The Air Hygiene Foundation . At this time it may

have been either The Air Hygiene Foundation or the

Industrial Hygiene Foundation because its 1941, but

,again urging membership .

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Markowita - by Plaintiff ° Direct

Q Now, I want to talk to you about

Westinghouses race specifically in terms of your

research, okay? What was -- we knave they were a

member, correct? You said that before .

Q How long mare they members?

A They mere members gram 1437, is the firs

document we have, until 2974, which is the last

recorded document they I have of their membership .

Q You stopped your research in 1970?

A Yes .

Q what do you have to do to become a member?

A You have to pay dins to become a member .

Q 5o if youre a company and you pay dues

you can become a member?

A Thats correct .

Q Now, in addition to just being a member,

did they have any other role with respect to The

Industrial Hygiene Foundation?

I A Yes, A part of the -- of Westinghouse was

also on the board of trustees from 2937 to some

(point, and then later a different member of

Westinghouse was also a member of the board of

trustees .

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

Q Did they have a medical committee?

A The Air Hygiene Foundation had several

committees and a medical committee was one of them,

yes .

Q Aid Westinghouse have anybody an the

medical committee?

A Yes, Westinghouse also had a member of the

medical committee .

Q Did they have an engineering and

toxicology committee?

A Those are two separate committees . They

had an engineering committee and a chemical and

toxicological committee .

Q Was Westinghouse a member of anyone of

those committees?

A Yes, Westinghouse was a member of the i

chemical and toxicological committee .

, Q end, doctor, where did you get that

information about their committee membership?

A Going through the transactions of the

annual meetings, some of those transactions list the

membership of The Industrial Hygiene Foundation and

also the officers anti the members of the committees .

Q Now, diet you prepare a chart summarizing

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

the various Westinghouse people who served on these

committees from the records you have?

A YES, Z did .

Q Did you have every record and every

transaction?

A There were some -- Im drying to remember

if any were missing from the library . I think we

had just about everyone .

Q There were a couple of holes here and

there?

A There were holes primarily because in same

Iof the transactions they didnt lisp the membership

, in those years .

t2 Do you have that chart with you today,

doctor?

A Yes, Z do .

Q Could Z see a copy of it, please?

MR . PLACIPELI,Aa Could I have this

marked, please?

THE COURT : The next one is 141 .

(Received and marked Plaintiffs

Exhibit 141 in Evidence .)

Q Whats been marked Plaintiffs 141 for

identification, is that the chart that you prepared?

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Direct

A Thats correct .

Q This is . In the center it indicates that

Lyle Hazlatt was an the medical committee?

A Thats collect .

Q And Mr . D.ilworth was on the board of

trustees?

A Yes, Joseph Dilworth .

Q They worked far Westinghouse?

A Thats correct .

Q And you then track it, the changes and

everything, going through to the 40s and into the

505,

A Thats correct .

Q And at some point Mr . Barnes Pram

Westinghouse starts to sere on the chemical and

toxicological committee?

(Continued an next page .)

3 HR. FLRCZTELLA : I am, your Honor, I just have

4 one more gage .

5 fifth COUffTa Okay.

B A Thats correct.

9 MR. PI.ACETBLLA : Tll offer the chart inter

12 THE COURTS Mark it in evidence, please,

14 Q P3ow, in addition to Westinghouse, there were other

1S companies and other organizations that wire members of thin

16 organization, true?

17 A There were many, marry hundred of companies that

18 were members.

19 Ct And others served an the board of trustees and

20 ether committees?

21 A Thats corrects

22 Q Foe instance, was Johns Manville on the board of

23 trustees?

24 11 Yes, SC w3$.

25 ( Q How about Ovens Corning Fiberglass?

S. C. t~avfs

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Q Were people from the Saranac laboratory on the

board of trustees or did they serve in an advisory capacity

an the Industrial Hygiene Foundation.

A A member was on the medical ccsmmitteeo I dont

think that they wee on the board of trustees. At least not

in the first year .

A No.

A Yes, there were.

say?

A From the United States Public Health Services# and

Eros the United states Bureau of Mines.

Q Were they there fn their personal capacity or their

government capacity?

A They were various, as individuals, they were not

r@presenting the government.

g Now, was anybody there from the Department of

Labor?

B. C. Davis

24 0 They couldnt do their job without at least going

25 into the plant without industrys permission?

Ei, C. Davis

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Dr. xarkaxic: - y Plaintiff -

11 J, -f .,-

A

wrong is those plants, and they said that these purveys

would be confidential, at least at first, and that the

Q Doctor, before eau continue, Y want to hive this

masked.

MR. PLACITELLAs At this point %d like to

publish or show to the jury, I think we have a

stipulation on this, this is a compendium of ell

y z the summaries sent out by tree rHp to its members

8 TIDE CE3tlRTs

10 the jurors.)

11 THE COt7FtTt Are we ready?

12 THE OFFICER; Not gauss Judge.

13 THE COURT: Okay.

zi juryroom4

22 Ill just put up a eouPio or pages. The matt

24 the article was published, the name of the summary

25 and the specific page in this group where it can

He C, Davis

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Dr, Mask tts - Plaintiff - wrest. 2276

A No,

MR. CAIRNS : Your Honor.

Fi, C, Davis

MR. idF+V8O$ And also, your Honors Owens

18 (In the courtroom.)

19 THE C:OURT You ears bring in the jury,

23 want to acquaint you with. These ate things you

24 should know at this time. {Tweas Canning

25 Fibreglass is as longer a defendant in the five

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Ed, C, Davis

i at, Markft=

1 in more detail. Bvta i gent ft to be known now ft

5 certain of the attorneys

10 All rights you may go ahead.

ii doss EXAMINATION

13 MR. CAIRtdSa Thank you, your Honor.

- li Q Mr . FRas&awita, Im Scott Cairns and L represent

17 19 Nof we havent.

18 Q Although $ took 4 break to try and pair 4own my

21 Ps Goad.

22 Q I dont believe that either of the books that

24 articles.

,25 A Edited, right.

R, C. Davis

9 MR. CAIRNSa Z have friends in New York at

14 least.

14 Greek work, from y and !s the, seers to dust,

is is that correct?

20 Q Ode see thato fag other wordsv that we case every day,

az A ~Rcght .

23 a Lees see if a can spell this. insecticide. 1

24 used to be a teacher, that means that means I have really

., ;. 25 bad handwriting. flow about matricide, would that be the

10 A That is the general understanding of that word,

11 night,

12 0 Its not killer insects, is it?

15 tfl4kkteer, right?

16 A Thats right.

1 7 0 Thats not killer mothers, is it?

18 A Thats correct.

20 them, ri ght?

21 A Thats correct.

22 0 its not killer plants, is It?

za A No, it is norm

H. C. Davis

25 11 were members of the Bureau o! Mines, as wt21t is that right?

$fl. C. Davis

l, ye*t it is.

21 A Thats correct.

22 Q And this article indicates that that conference was

24 Labors i snt that correct?

25 A She was formally, yes, as the Secretary of Labor, I

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they.

A Thats correct.

8> C. Davit

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A Yes.

Q And there were, fn one of the documents you looked

at was, the document A78, F 8 P. On this documents on why,

where, when; is that right?

NB C. Davis

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Q N.ow you mentioned stn the medical committee

Westinghouse served throughout an different yea s t !s that

correct?

A Yes, Re Ro Jones* yea .

Q Acid the U.S. Public Health Services is the

organization thats headed by the Surgeon General of the

United States?

A Thats correct.

Q Okay, I had newer known that until recently. Its

kind of interesting.

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A TEaaC°& correct,

A Thats correct.

Q And aver in the-- Lets see what else if weve got

anything different here. Among the members, you have people

H, £. Davis

7 wouldnt you agree?

s A Thats correct.

24 Q That would incleadaF for example, fn 1946 a document

21 called abstract for a health survey of pipe covering which

22 appears on page 697

23 A i would presume see Z dont have any direct

24 knowledge of that article.

25 Q Bad you have as much knowledge about that as you do

C. Davis

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P1 Yes, I ama

A No, that i$ not correct. If

would get $2,000.

Q Okay, But yoga normally have a minimum lee, dont

you? That mould involve coming for the whole day?

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Dr. M:rkowits - by Plaintiff - redirect 2295

MX. PLACIfiELLAs I have s few questions.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. PLACIT8LLAt

Q Okay. Now* Mr . Cairns asked you about the medical

committees Im oar that same year, are you aware in the

committees that same year was the Saranac Laboratories?

H. c. Davis

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THE CfltIRT: yeast me?

THE COURTt For coming to court, youre

talking about?

Q Same as trial? t think youve been working with

Mr . P1acfteI2a for about 26 months nawj is that right?

A Ateos F think--

Q 14 year and a half?

A I think fts, Im trying to remember whether, %

dont think its that long, i dont recall . Precisely.

Q Thank you.

ASR. C:AIRNS I dont have any other questions,

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Markawitz - by Plaintiff - Redirect

Q You have never seen anything in any of the

(literature that you studied, doctor, that would

indicate that Dr . Gardner would hold anything back

from the medical committees, would you?

A No .

Q So whatever Dr . Gardner knew about the

dangers of asbestos disease hed probably show with

the other people an the committee?

MR . CAIRNS : Objection, your Honor .

THE COURT : Sustained,

Q Also on the board of trustees was

Johns-Manville, true?

A Thats correct .

Q And Owens-Illinois else, they served on

the legal committee?

A Yes .

Q Now, ire knew there is nothing wrong with

being a member, bud we do know now that if you are a

member you get a monthly publication of everything

ever published on asbestos and disease from 1937 to

the present, true?

A An abstract of that, yes .

Q Plow, Mr . Cairns asked you -- he went

through this exercise °- if you want to kill dust

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Markowitz - by Plaintiff - Redirect

disease, do you have to warn the workers?

MR . CAIRNS : Objection, your Honor .

THE COURTt Sustained . He is not an

i expert .

Do you know whither Westinghouse ever

~~warned and people out at ion Ed site --

MR . CAIRNS : objection, your Honor .

THE COURT* Sustained .

MR . PLACZTELLA : No other questions .

MR, CAIRNS : Your Honor, I will

simply ask that the documents that the

witness has looked at and this chart be

marked far identification .

THE COURT : He is going to offer

them . You want to offer his book as --

fox identification?

MR . CAIRNS : The one he is using in

front of him, yes .

THE COURT ; Well have that marked .

Thank you, doctor . Mark the book just for

identification purposes, 144 for I .D .

(Received and marked Plaintiffs

Exhibit 144 for Identification .)

THE COURT : Something I neglected to