367
1 GEORGE J. BERGLUND, JR., * SUPERIOR COURT
Individually and as Executor * OF NEW JERSEY
2 of the Estate of CAROL NEAL, * MIDDLESEX COUNTY:
and GEORGE NEAL, Surviving * LAW DIVISION
3 Spouse, *
Plaintiffs * Docket No.
4 v. * L-3292-07
ATLANTIC RICHFIELD COMPANY * Civil Action
5 a/k/a ARCO, et al., * Asbestos Litigation
Defendants *
6 * * * * * * * * * * *
7
8 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF GEORGE J. BERGLUND, SR.
VOLUME II
9
10 The Videotaped Deposition of George J.
11 Berglund, Sr. was continued on Thursday, September
12 25, 2008, commencing at 10:06 a.m. at The Clarion
13 Hotel, 1450 State Highway 70 East, Cherry Hill, New
14 Jersey, and was reported by Denise M. Thomas, Notary
15 Public.
16
17
18 EVANS REPORTING SERVICE
Munsey Building
19 7 North Calvert Street
Suite 705
20 Baltimore, Maryland 21202
(410) 727-7100
21
368
1 APPEARANCES:
2 GEORGE TANKARD, ESQUIRE
Waters & Kraus, LLP
3 315 North Charles Street
Baltimore, Maryland 21201
4 410-583-1153
gtankard@waterskraus.com
5 On behalf of the Plaintiffs
6 WILLIAM L. KUZMIN, ESQUIRE
Cohen Placitella & Roth, P.C.
7 127 Maple Avenue
Red Bank, New Jersey 07701
8 732-747-9003
wkuzmin@cprlaw.com
9 On behalf of the Plaintiffs
10 CHRISTOPHER IANNICELLI, ESQUIRE
Morgan, Lewis & Brockius, LLP
11 502 Carnegie Center
Princeton, New Jersey 08540-6241
12 609-919-6623
ciannicelli@morganlewis.com
13 On behalf of the Defendants, Tyco International
(U.S.) Inc., Tyco Values & Controls and Yarway
14 Corporation
15 MEREDITH GURSKY, ESQUIRE
McGivney & Kluger, P.C.
16 80 Broad Street
Second Floor
17 New York, New York 10004
212-509-3456
18 mgursky@mcgivneyandkluger.com
On behalf of the Defendants, A Dover Company,
19 Superior-Lidgerwood-Mundy Corporation and
Leslie Controls, Inc.
20
21
369
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 SUSAN KARLOVICH, ESQUIRE
Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker, LLP
3 33 Washington Street
Newark, New Jersey 07102
4 973-624-0800
susan.karlovich@wilsonelser.com
5 On behalf of the Defendant, Atlantic Richfield
Company
6
LISA PAM WILDSTEIN, ESQUIRE
7 Segal, McCambridge, Singer & Mahoney
103 Carnegie Center
8 Suite 103
Princeton, New Jersey 08540
9 609-452-1558
lwildstein@smsm.com
10 On behalf of the Defendants, Coltec Industries
and Garlock Sealing Technologies, LLC
11
RYAN M. KOOI, ESQUIRE
12 Margolis Edelstein
Sentry Office Plaza
13 P.O. Box 92222
216 Haddon Avenue
14 Second Floor
Westmont, New Jersey 08108-2886
15 856-869-6733
rkooi@margolisedelstein.com
16 On behalf of the Defendant, John Crane, Inc.
17 GINA CALABRIA, ESQUIRE
Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker, LLP
18 33 Washington Street
Newark, New Jersey 07102
19 973-624-0800
gina.calabria@wilsonelser.com
20 On behalf of the Defendant, Warren Pumps, LLC
21
370
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 CHARLES F. FORER, ESQUIRE
Eckert Seamans Cherin & Mellott, LLC
3 Two Liberty Place
50 South 16th Street
4 22nd Floor
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102
5 215-851-8406
cforer@eckertseamans.com
6 On behalf of the Defendant, Viacom, Inc.,
Successor by merger to CBS Corporation, f/k/a
7 Westinghouse Electric Corporation
8 MIKE GILBERTI, ESQUIRE
Epstein Gilberti, LLC
9 21 East Front Street
Suite 210
10 Red Bank, New Jersey 07701
732-212-0400
11 gilberti@eg-law.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Crane Co.
12
JOSEPHINE M. DICOSMO, ESQUIRE
13 Picillo Caruso Pope Edell Picini, P.C.
60 Route 46 East
14 Fairfield, New Jersey 07004
973-667-6000
15 jdicosmo@carusopope.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Amchem (Benjamin
16 Foster)
17 JOSEPH I. FONTAK, ESQUIRE
Leader & Berkon, LLP
18 630 Third Avenue
New York, New York 10017
19 212-486-2400
jfontak@leaderberkon.com
20 On behalf of the Defendant, IMO Industries
21
371
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 STEPHANIE A. DIVITA, ESQUIRE
Pehlivanian Braaten & Pascarella, LLC
3 Paynters Ridge Office Park
2430 Route 34
4 Manasquan, New Jersey 08736
732-528-8888
5 sdivita@pehli.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Ingersoll Rand
6 Company
7 KEITH D. BABULA, ESQUIRE
Wilbraham Lawler & Buba
8 1818 Market Street
Suite 3100
9 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103
215-972-2802
10 kbabula@wlbdeflaw.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Buffalo Pumps,
11 Inc. (BPI)
12 CHRISTINE D. MCGUIRE, ESQUIRE
Mayfield, Turner, OMara, Donnelly & McBride
13 2201 Route 38
Suite 300
14 Cherry Hill, New Jersey 08002
856-667-2600
15 cmcguire@mayfieldturner.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Carrier
16 Corportation
17 ALSO PRESENT: Lisa Bauer, Videographer
18
19
20
21
372
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 * * * * * * *
3 (Whereupon, Berglund Deposition Exhibit
4 Number 2 was marked for identification.)
5 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is the
6 continuation of our video deposition of George
7 Berglund, Sr. Todays date is September 25th, 2008.
8 Our time is 10:06 a.m. Our location is 1450 State
9 Highway 70 East in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Our
10 court reporter is Denise Thomas with Evans
11 Reporting. My name is Lisa Bauer with New View
12 Video Services.
13 The caption of the case is George J.
14 Berglund, Jr., Individually and as Executor of the
15 Estate of Carol Neal, and George Neal, Surviving
16 Spouse, versus Atlantic Richfield Company in the
17 Superior Court of New Jersey, Middlesex County: Law
18 Division, Docket Number L-3292-07.
19 Will our attorneys please identify
20 themselves and who they represent.
21 MR. TANKARD: George Tankard, Waters &
373
1 Kraus, for the plaintiffs.
2 MR. BABULA: Keith Babula, Buffalo
3 Pumps.
4 MR. FORER: Charles Forer,
5 CBS/Westinghouse.
6 MR. FONTAK: Joseph Fontak, IMO
7 Industries.
8 MS. MCGUIRE: Christine McGuire,
9 Mayfield, Turner.
10 MS. DIVITA: Stephanie DiVita,
11 Pehlivanian Braaten & Pascarella for IR.
12 MR. IANNICELLI: Christopher
13 Iannicelli, Morgan, Lewis & Brockius, on behalf of
14 Yarway Corporation and the Tyco entities.
15 MR. KOOI: Ryan Kooi from Margolis
16 Edelstein for John Crane.
17 MS DICOSMO: Josephine DiCosmo, Picillo
18 Caruso Pope Edell & Picini, for Amchem.
19 MR. GILBERTI: Mike Gilberti of
20 Epstein & Gilberti. And we have got Crane Co.
21 MS. KARLOVICH: Susan Karlovich,
374
1 Wilson, Elser, on behalf of Atlantic Richfield.
2 MS. GURSKY: Meredith Gursky, McGivney
3 & Kluger, on behalf of Leslie Controls, SLM and
4 Dover Company.
5 MR. KUZMIN: William Kuzmin, Cohen,
6 Placitella & Roth, on behalf of the plaintiff.
7 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Again, our witness
8 is George Berglund, Sr. and will now be sworn in by
9 our court reporter.
10 Whereupon,
11 GEORGE BERGLUND, SR.
12 A witness herein, called for oral
13 examination in the matter pending, being first duly
14 sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
15 but the truth, testified as follows on
16 MR. TANKARD: And before we continue
17 with the deposition, before we started, informally,
18 I had indicated that we had obtained from
19 Mr. Berglund copies of some Certificates of
20 Discharge from the U.S. Coast Guard from his
21 Merchant Marine days. He can detail this further.
375
1 They are not comprehensive. They are some, but not
2 all of them.
3 They were not obtained from the Coast
4 Guard. It was the ones that he happened to have
5 copies among his documents. And we have marked that
6 as Exhibit 2.
7 We will formally produce that and give
8 copies to everybody in due course. But I wanted to
9 go ahead and disclose those documents here today in
10 case anybody wanted to ask the deponent questions.
11 MS. DIVITA: Can you pass them around?
12 MR. TANKARD: Sure.
13 MR. BABULA: Thats all youve got?
14 MR. TANKARD: Yes.
15 MR. BABULA: I just have a statement
16 for the record. My name is Keith Babula. I
17 represent Buffalo Pumps in this matter. My firm was
18 not given notice for day one of the deposition,
19 therefore, at this time, I would like to preserve
20 our right to object to questions asked during the
21 day one testimony.
376
1 And, also, we are not waiving any
2 objections that we have for failure to notice us of
3 the deposition.
4 MR. TANKARD: I would just indicate on
5 the record, without agreeing that there was any
6 problem with notice, thats an issue we can reserve
7 for determination and resolution at a later date. I
8 understand that you are placing your objection on
9 the record.
10 MR. BABULA: Okay.
11 EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. BABULA:
13 Q How are you doing, Mr. Berglund?
14 A All right.
15 Q I am going to ask you a bunch of
16 questions today. And I am not going to repeat all
17 the instructions you had before. But, again, we are
18 only interested in what you can tell us today thats
19 a fact. Okay? If you can estimate, thats fine as
20 long as your estimation is based on facts.
21 Do you understand that?
377
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. I believe you testified that you
3 attended high school at Bartram; is that correct?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. What types of classes did you
6 take there?
7 A Just regular academic, whatever back
8 then. I cant recall exactly what classes. We
9 just –
10 Q Okay.
11 A Machine shop.
12 Q Thats what I was going to — did you
13 take any vocational classes?
14 A Oh, no, no, no.
15 Q Okay. You said you took a machine
16 shop?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Do you recall what you learned in that
19 machine shop?
20 A Yes. Working on the lathe and
21 different things like that.
378
1 Q Okay. Before you were employed by
2 ARCO, did you have any other type of vocational
3 training outside of high school?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. So when you got to ARCO and you
6 began working on ships –
7 A Yeah.
8 Q — were you there to learn on the job?
9 A Yes. Everything was on-the-job
10 training.
11 Q Okay. And I believe you testified that
12 you were aboard six different ships; is that
13 correct?
14 A That would be about right.
15 Q Okay. And the first ship you were on
16 was The Atlantic Voyager?
17 A Correct.
18 Q Do you recall how long you were on that
19 ship?
20 A I cant give you, you know, exactly how
21 long I was on it, no.
379
1 Q Understood.
2 Was it a matter of months or a matter
3 of years?
4 A It would be months.
5 Q Okay. And I think you started at ARCO
6 in September –
7 A Much years. Yes, it should have been
8 September, yes.
9 Q Okay. You started in September?
10 A Yes.
11 Q So do you recall the season when you
12 got off of that ship?
13 A The season?
14 Q Yeah. Was it the Winter, was it
15 Spring?
16 A I believe that was around in the
17 summertime. I couldnt give you an exact.
18 Q So it would have been the summer of
19 57?
20 A No. It would have been in 1960.
21 Q You were on The Atlantic Voyager until
380
1 the summer of 1960?
2 A No.
3 Q Thats what I am trying to figure out.
4 When did you get off The Atlantic Voyager?
5 A Probably in 57.
6 Q Okay. Do you recall when in 57?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. You dont recall the season,
9 time of year?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Do you recall approximately how
12 many months you were on board that vessel?
13 A I would say about three, four. I
14 mean — five months lets say.
15 Q About five months?
16 A About five, six months, yes. I was a
17 messboy on that.
18 Q Okay. That was my next question.
19 A I wasnt in the — yes.
20 Q You were a messboy the entire time on
21 that ship?
381
1 A Yes, on that ship, I was a messboy.
2 Q Okay. And as a messboy, you didnt
3 have to work on any type of equipment aboard that
4 ship?
5 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
6 A No. On that, no.
7 Q Okay. And I think you testified as a
8 messboy, you did — you served food and cleaned up
9 and things like that?
10 A Correct.
11 Q Okay. I think the next vessel you were
12 on was the R.C. Tuttle?
13 A As I can recall.
14 Q Okay. I should ask you, do you have
15 any records from back when you worked for ARCO, any
16 employment records?
17 A No, other than what you just see I have
18 there, (indicating).
19 Q Okay.
20 MR. TANKARD: The witness is referring
21 to Exhibit 2, the discharge slips?
382
1 THE WITNESS: Yes.
2 BY MR. BABULA:
3 Q Okay. Do you recall how long you were
4 on the R.C. Tuttle?
5 A Off and on. See, let me explain. A
6 lot of these ships, you were on them and you were on
7 another one, then you were back on. Whatever ship
8 they needed me at that time, thats what you did.
9 When we got back to Philadelphia, you might change.
10 Q Okay. Did that going back and forth
11 between ship, did that last for your entire time at
12 ARCO?
13 A Oh, yes, yes, yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 A There was no — in other words, we
16 didnt have no special ship. Whatever they needed.
17 Q Now, can you tell me, how long would
18 you stay on one ship before you got moved to
19 another? Was it one trip, more than one trip?
20 A Sometimes you might be on it for a
21 while and then other times one trip.
383
1 Q Okay. When you are saying a while, are
2 you saying multiple trips?
3 A Yeah, it might be multiple trips.
4 Q Okay. Now, did each ship have its own
5 crew that stayed aboard that ship the entire time?
6 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
7 Q So the entire crew changed?
8 A Yes. Yes, it did.
9 Q And you shook your head the one time.
10 I know we are on the video, but –
11 A No. I said yes. Yes, it did.
12 Q Okay. Is there any way you could say
13 the amount of time you spent on the R.C. Tuttle
14 total?
15 A I would say I spent a good bit on the
16 R.C. Tuttle. I would say at least — at least — if
17 I put all them together, I could give you a rough
18 estimate of about maybe eight months, six to eight
19 months.
20 Q And what was your job title aboard the
21 Tuttle?
384
1 A The Tuttle, I was a wiper.
2 Q Okay. You didnt work as the messboy
3 on the Tuttle?
4 A Yes, I did, one — maybe one trip.
5 Thats when I — I think thats — that, if I
6 remember, is when I went into being a wiper.
7 Q Okay. So one trip as a messboy, and
8 then you became a wiper?
9 A About one trip, about that.
10 Q And I think you testified on the first
11 day that you remained a wiper for most of your time
12 at ARCO; is that correct?
13 A Correct.
14 Q It was up until sometime in 1960 that
15 you were a wiper?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Okay. Do you recall the month in 1960
18 where — your last month as a wiper?
19 A No, I cannot, but its on some of my
20 discharges.
21 Q Okay. And after a wiper, did you
385
1 become a fireman?
2 A Fireman, yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 A And, also, when you say fireman, its
5 fireman and water tender and oiler license.
6 Q Were they separate job titles or did
7 that — all those jobs fall under fireman?
8 A No. Its all on your seaman papers.
9 Q Okay. How about The Seaman, do you
10 recall how long you were on that ship?
11 A The Seaman I was on for a while. I
12 couldnt give you an exact amount of time because,
13 like I said before, I was on and off.
14 Q Okay. You couldnt — could you — you
15 couldnt take the total amount of time and put it
16 into a matter of months or years?
17 A No, because the other ones was sister
18 ships. They were — because you are used to seeing
19 the same thing, so you cant really recall.
20 Q And I think you said the sister ships
21 were The Seaman, The Navigator and The Engineer; is
386
1 that right?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Okay. So if I asked you how long you
4 spent on The Navigator and The Engineer, would you
5 be able to give me an estimate?
6 A No. You would have to look at some of
7 the discharges. But I couldnt give you an
8 estimate, no.
9 Q Okay. And how about The Communicator,
10 do you recall how long you were on that ship?
11 A The Communicator, I made about two
12 trips on it.
13 Q Okay. And do you recall what your
14 title was on The Communicator?
15 A Wiper.
16 Q Were all these ships similar in size?
17 A Yes, except the first ones, the Tuttle
18 and the Voyager, were small.
19 Q Okay. And when you say small, how –
20 can you give me a size?
21 A They were probably around close to 600
387
1 feet.
2 Q And how about the rest of the ships?
3 A They were a little over 600 feet.
4 Q Okay. And how many men worked aboard
5 each ship?
6 A Approximately 44.
7 Q And thats the entire crew of the ship?
8 A Yes, including captain and engineers.
9 Q I know you testified on the first day
10 that there was an engine room, boiler room, a
11 combined space on one ship?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Was that the same for all the ships?
14 A Basically, yes, it would be.
15 Q Was there any ships that had separate
16 engine room and boiler rooms?
17 A When you say separate, they were
18 actually a bulkhead there, but it was open, an open
19 area as big as this room almost that you could go
20 right through. In other words, you could see –
21 Q It was a passageway?
388
1 A — from the boiler room, you could see
2 the fellow that was right there by the turbine.
3 Q Okay. Can you estimate the size of the
4 bulkhead, the partial bulkhead that you called it?
5 A You mean the opening?
6 Q No. The size of the actual wall that
7 was there.
8 A No, because there is so many pipes and
9 all, you couldnt really.
10 Q Okay. What was the size of the
11 opening?
12 A I would say whatever — about — I
13 would say about 12 feet.
14 Q Twelve feet wide?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And how high?
17 A Probably about eight foot.
18 Q Can you give me the names of the other
19 trades that worked in the engine room/boiler room?
20 A Yeah. You had your chief engineer, you
21 had your first assistant engineer, second assistant
389
1 engineer, third assistant, and then you had your
2 oiler, and then you had your fireman, and you had
3 your three wipers.
4 Now, when I say theres engineers, they
5 were different watches. So the wipers was separate.
6 They were just day, worked in the day.
7 Q The wipers only worked in the day?
8 A Yes. The other was 24 hours the way
9 they were.
10 Q And you said there was three assistant
11 engineers. All three didnt work at the same time?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. Would there be the chief
14 engineer and then an assistant engineer?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Were there any machinists?
17 A Yes, but they werent always –
18 machinists was in there, and then you had a pump
19 man.
20 Q Okay. And how many pump men were there
21 on one particular ship?
390
1 A Two pump men.
2 Q Two pump men per shift?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And how about the machinists, how many
5 machinists worked per shift?
6 A One. He is the one that would
7 sometimes give us jobs.
8 Q Okay. I take it the chief engineer
9 supervised everybody that was working in that space,
10 correct?
11 A Correct. You didnt have much to do
12 with him.
13 Q Okay. Did he actually perform any
14 hands-on work?
15 A No.
16 Q And how about the assistant engineer,
17 do you know what his duties were?
18 A Yes. Second assistant was — first
19 assistant was the one that was — you went to him
20 for your job assignments. And the second assistant,
21 he controlled most of the electrical work. And then
391
1 you had your third was just basically watching the
2 gauges and whatnot.
3 Q Was there any boiler tenders that
4 worked in that room?
5 A Yes, the fireman.
6 Q Okay. That was the boiler tender. Got
7 you.
8 How about the oiler? What was the
9 oilers job?
10 A The oiler would go around and, just
11 what I said, maintain like the lubrication of pumps
12 and be with — there was three of those also and
13 three firemen, remember. Each one had their own
14 watch with the engineer, whatever engineer was on at
15 that watch.
16 Q Okay. How many oilers worked per
17 shift?
18 A One.
19 Q And how about the firemen per shift?
20 A One.
21 Q Okay. And can you tell me what the
392
1 firemans duties were?
2 A The firemans duties was to maintain
3 the boiler, pull the — keep everything running
4 right, make sure the water was just right in the
5 boilers and –
6 Q Did the fireman perform any work with
7 the pumps associated with the boilers?
8 A No.
9 Q And who would do that work? The pump
10 man?
11 A No. The pump man — when you say pump
12 man, most of his work was when you came — put the
13 product on the ship or take it off a lot of times.
14 Thats what his main job was.
15 Q Okay.
16 A And then he would work with us
17 sometimes down in the engine room like on repair
18 work.
19 Q Okay. And how about the machinist?
20 What was the machinists job?
21 A Machinist would be the same. He would
393
1 be working — we would be working with him. In
2 other words, the wipers would get assigned a job and
3 work with whoever, the pump man or the machinist.
4 Q So as a wiper, you are an apprentice
5 pretty much, correct?
6 A Basically, yes.
7 Q Okay. Is there any one particular
8 person that you worked with most of the time when
9 you were a wiper?
10 A Most of the time I would be with the
11 pump man. And I couldnt give you an exact because
12 I was working with the engineer — I mean not
13 engineer, with the machinist also.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Its all according to what kind of job
16 it was. Thats basically.
17 Q So aside from working with the pump man
18 and the machinist, as a wiper, did you work with any
19 other trades in that room?
20 A Whatever needed to be done we did. You
21 know, it could even be painting, anything.
394
1 Q Okay. But did you ever work as an
2 apprentice to any of the firemen?
3 A I was a — I had a firemans license
4 toward the end.
5 Q Towards the end. Im going to talk
6 about that separate. But I just want to focus right
7 now while you were a wiper.
8 A Why I was a wiper? Because you had to
9 have so much sea time before you could be a fireman.
10 In other words, you were like a — if you want to
11 consider it an apprentice, that would be it.
12 Q Okay.
13 A You had to have X amount of months or
14 years, rather, sea time before you could go up and
15 get your license at the Custom House.
16 Q Okay. But my question is a little more
17 specific. While you were a wiper, did you ever help
18 out the fireman?
19 A Yes, cleaning up his area, sure.
20 Q Okay. And how about the oiler? Did
21 you ever help the oiler?
395
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Is there any way you can break
3 down any type of percentage that you worked with one
4 trade as opposed to the other?
5 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. But you think you worked mostly
8 with the pump man and the machinist?
9 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Was the engine room and the
12 boiler room space, was that more than one level?
13 A Yes. There was about three different
14 levels in there.
15 Q Okay. What was the purpose of the
16 different levels?
17 A Pipe, steam pipes. And then there was
18 what they called the fiddley. The fiddley was
19 another area where the stack is.
20 Q Okay. Did you ever have to work on –
21 did you work on all three of the levels?
396
1 A Yes. Anything in that engine room we
2 worked on and had to maintain, yes.
3 Q Okay. And how many entrances were
4 there to get into that room?
5 A Basically two from the top deck. You
6 had to walk down to the area.
7 Q Were the two entrances located on
8 either side of the room?
9 A One was located on the other side where
10 the turbine, and the other one was right where the
11 fireroom would be, boiler room.
12 Q So one to get into the engine space and
13 one to get in the boiler space?
14 A You could go in either one, yes.
15 Q Okay. Was there a ventilation system
16 in that room?
17 A Yes. You had — if you want to call it
18 ventilation. It was these scoops up on the deck,
19 these big — you have probably seen them. And that
20 would — the air would come in there and come down
21 to it. We didnt have no air conditioner or
397
1 anything like that.
2 Q But it would circulate air from the
3 outside of the ship?
4 A That would circulate whatever air. But
5 sometimes when you are in the Gulf of Mexico or
6 somewhere, there wasnt hardly any air.
7 Q Okay. And it was hot in that room,
8 right?
9 A You had a good day at 110.
10 Q Were there any fans?
11 A Yeah, only in the ventilation system
12 trying to pull the air in. Yes, there was some
13 fans, yes.
14 Q All right. And you talked about a
15 machine shop. Was the machine shop in that space or
16 was it outside?
17 A That was about on the second — as a
18 rule, it was on the second level.
19 Q Okay. Was there anybody assigned to
20 the machine shop that worked there the entire day?
21 A No. We were all — had to, you know,
398
1 work in it.
2 Q Okay. And was there a storage room
3 anywhere?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Where was the storage room?
6 A Next to the machine shop.
7 Q On the second level as well?
8 A About on the second level, most of
9 them, yes.
10 Q And what was kept in the storage room?
11 A All your coverings, pipes, valves,
12 extra valves, your packing, just about all your
13 basics that you needed to maintain the engine room.
14 Q On your first day of testimony, you
15 identified a company called Buffalo. Do you recall
16 that testimony?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. What do you associate Buffalo
19 with?
20 A Pumps.
21 Q Okay. And can you — do you associate
399
1 Buffalo pumps aboard any specific ship?
2 A I couldnt give — all I remember is I
3 worked on Buffalo pumps.
4 Q Okay. Could you give me — do you
5 recall the first time you worked on a Buffalo pump?
6 A No, I couldnt recall the first time,
7 no.
8 Q Okay. Do you recall what your job
9 would have been?
10 A Yes. Lots of times it would be where
11 we would maybe replace some parts on it or take it
12 up and dis — you know, like disassemble it. And if
13 they needed, you know, another one, then they put
14 another one in. Basically, if they did that, it was
15 in the shipyard.
16 Q Okay. The replacing the parts would be
17 done in the shipyard?
18 A No.
19 Q Or just assemble it?
20 A We could do some parts, like, on it.
21 It was according to what kind of pump it was –
400
1 Q Okay.
2 A — you needed.
3 Q Well, do you recall what type of pumps
4 the Buffalo pumps that you worked on were?
5 A All I remember is I seen the Buffalo
6 pumps. I couldnt recall exactly, because I worked
7 on so many pumps, as far as what the function was.
8 Q Can you tell me what the Buffalo pumps
9 that you worked on, what they looked like?
10 A Well, it was all according to what –
11 like I said, no, I couldnt, basically, say. No, I
12 couldnt recall exactly what it looked like because
13 there was so many different designs on the pumps.
14 Q Okay.
15 A So that would be a no.
16 Q So as you sit here today, you cant
17 distinguish a Buffalo pump as opposed to a pump
18 manufactured by another company?
19 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
20 MR. KUZMIN: Objection to form.
21 A I could, yes, because it had the
401
1 nameplate right on it.
2 Q Okay. As far as describing it.
3 A Describing it right here right now, I
4 couldnt describe it exactly because there was
5 different ones.
6 Q Okay. And do you recall the function
7 of any of the Buffalo pumps you ever worked on?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. Do you recall the function of
10 any of the pumps that were in those engine
11 room/boiler room spaces?
12 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
13 A The pump? No, not offhand, no.
14 Q Okay. You just recall that there was
15 pumps there, you dont know what they were for?
16 A There was pumps there. There was feed
17 pumps and there was different — all kinds of
18 different pumps.
19 Q Okay. Other than the feed pump –
20 A Theres a lot of pumps, a lot of pumps.
21 You had water pumps, you had — everything in there,
402
1 you know, naturally, ran from the engine room.
2 Q Okay.
3 A So they transport the water up even
4 into their, you know, basic — up for the shower.
5 Everything was pumps.
6 MS. DIVITA: Move to strike the portion
7 that is nonresponsive.
8 Q Could you recall the configuration of
9 any of the pumps?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Do you know how any of the pumps
12 were powered?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Some pumps were powered by steam and
16 some by electric.
17 Q Okay. As far as the Buffalo pumps are
18 concerned, do you know if they were powered by steam
19 or electric?
20 A No.
21 Q Do you recall the temperature that any
403
1 of the Buffalo pumps operated at?
2 A No.
3 Q Do you recall the temperature of any of
4 the materials that the Buffalo pumps were pumping,
5 what the temperature of that material was?
6 A No.
7 Q Do you recall the color of any of the
8 Buffalo pumps?
9 A The color? A lot of them we paint — a
10 lot of pumps we painted white. We kept everything
11 just basically white down there.
12 Q Okay. Do you recall any writing on the
13 Buffalo pumps?
14 A Yes. It was a little plate on the
15 side.
16 Q Okay. Outside of that plate, was there
17 any writing?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. How about any logos outside of
20 the plate?
21 A No.
404
1 Q Okay. Can you tell me where the plate
2 was located on the Buffalo pumps?
3 A It was — I just recall the name — the
4 plate right on the side of it and according to what
5 type of pump it was. If it was a round one, it was
6 right there on the cover.
7 Q Okay.
8 A And basically the cover.
9 Q Can you tell me what was on that plate?
10 A Some of it had for –
11 Q I dont want to interrupt you, but I am
12 talking specifically about the plates for the
13 Buffalo pumps.
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. You dont recall any writing
16 that was on the plate?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. Thats what I — what writing
19 was on the plate?
20 A Beside the logo, their logo, it was
21 what different amps on some of them, whatever, on
405
1 the pumps. And thats about basically what I — and
2 what it did, some of them, pressure. This is what I
3 can recall.
4 Q Right.
5 The specifications for the pump would
6 be on the plate; is that fair?
7 A It would be on the plate, yes, the
8 specifications. And I couldnt recall what
9 specifications they were.
10 Q Understood.
11 Outside of the specs for the pump and
12 the logo, was there any other writing on that plate?
13 A I cant recall.
14 Q Okay. Can you tell me what that logo
15 looked like on the Buffalo pumps?
16 A No. I looked at so many of them, I
17 couldnt recall one particular logo, no.
18 Q Well, how could you identify it as a
19 Buffalo pump?
20 A Because I remember working on them
21 because we used to have to take them into the
406
1 machine shop lots of times. This is basically why
2 you remember some of these things. I know it sounds
3 crazy, but you remember because you actually took
4 them off for whoever was going to rebuild them, if
5 it was going to be us, or take them, you know, and
6 replace them. So you are taking them off. You are
7 looking right at it.
8 Q Move to strike as nonresponsive.
9 Can you tell me what the logo on the
10 Buffalo pump plate looked like?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. And you talked about on your
13 first day of testimony a tag with an ID number. Is
14 that the plate we are talking about now?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. There wasnt a separate tag
17 outside of that plate?
18 A Not that I can recall.
19 Q Okay. Do you know when any of the
20 Buffalo pumps that you worked on were installed?
21 A Where they were installed?
407
1 Q When.
2 A Oh, when? It would have been when the
3 ship was being built, I guess.
4 Q Okay. Do you recall when any of those
5 six ships were built, or do you know?
6 A The Tuttle was built during the war.
7 The Voyager was built after the war. I mean before
8 the war, rather. That was a T2 tanker. And the
9 other ones were built, I guess, somewhere around in
10 the late 40s, early 50s. I believe in the 50s
11 they were built.
12 Q Early 50s?
13 A I couldnt really tell you.
14 Q You were never working on one of these
15 ships when it was brand new, correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q And would it be fair to say that you
18 dont know the maintenance history of any of the
19 Buffalo pumps aboard any of those ships?
20 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
21 A No.
408
1 Q Okay.
2 A No maintenance history.
3 Q You wouldnt know the maintenance
4 history of the Buffalo pumps, right?
5 A No.
6 Q Do you recall over the course of your
7 career at ARCO how many Buffalo pumps you actually
8 worked on?
9 A No. A lot of pumps, but no. That
10 would be a no.
11 Q Could you say it was more or less than
12 five Buffalo pumps?
13 A I wouldnt know how many.
14 Q Do you recall working on any
15 Worthington pumps?
16 A Worthington?
17 Q Worthington while you were at ARCO.
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 A There was a Worthington, yes.
21 Q You do recall a Worthington?
409
1 A No, no, no, no. I am thinking of
2 something else. No.
3 Q Okay. Do you recall working on any
4 Worthington equipment aboard those ships?
5 A The name is very familiar. I cant –
6 right now, I just cant place it where.
7 Q Okay.
8 A See, not that — I worked — dont
9 forget I worked –
10 MR. KUZMIN: Mr. Berglund, there is not
11 a question pending. Why dont you wait for him to
12 ask another question.
13 THE WITNESS: Okay.
14 BY MR. BABULA:
15 Q And you testified on your first day
16 that you performed some gasket work on pumps,
17 correct?
18 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
19 A Correct.
20 Q And as you sit here today, do you
21 recall ever doing any gasket work on a Buffalo pump?
410
1 A If it had a gasket, I worked on it,
2 yes.
3 Q Okay. Well, you are saying if. I am
4 asking you –
5 A I dont recall exactly any particular
6 Buffalo pump, but I did work on gaskets. I had to
7 if you are taking it apart.
8 Q Okay. But as you sit here today, you
9 cant say specifically that you worked on gaskets on
10 a Buffalo pump; is that correct?
11 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
12 A If I took that Buffalo pump off, yes, I
13 worked on gaskets.
14 Q Okay. You are saying if. I dont want
15 to speak in hypotheticals.
16 A Yes. Thats a yes, I did work on
17 gaskets, yes.
18 Q You worked on gaskets on Buffalo pumps?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Do you recall how many times you work
21 on gaskets specifically on Buffalo pumps?
411
1 A No.
2 Q Was it more or less than five?
3 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
4 A I couldnt recall.
5 Q Okay. Do you recall which gaskets that
6 you worked on, which type of gasket on a Buffalo
7 pump?
8 A Some steam, some water. That would –
9 Q What do you mean steam and water?
10 A Some pumps were water and some were
11 steam.
12 Q Okay. But I asked you before, and you
13 didnt recall if any of the Buffalo pumps were
14 steam. Do you know if you worked on — I am asking
15 you which gasket on a Buffalo pump do you recall
16 working on?
17 A Steam.
18 Q Okay. Although you dont recall
19 working on steam pumps associated with Buffalo?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
21 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
412
1 A I worked on all pumps.
2 MS. DIVITA: Move to strike as
3 nonresponsive.
4 Q Okay. Do you recall which gaskets that
5 you worked on?
6 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
7 A The name or the –
8 Q The gaskets on the pump. There were
9 gaskets on the pump, correct?
10 A Yes.
11 MR. TANKARD: Are you asking by type or
12 the brand name or –
13 MR. BABULA: Where the gasket was on
14 the pump.
15 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
16 A Where were they at? If you
17 disconnected a line, there was a gasket on it, so
18 thats why I worked on it.
19 BY MR. BABULA:
20 Q On a flange gasket?
21 A Yes.
413
1 Q Okay. And as you sit here today, do
2 you recall working on a flange gasket associated
3 with a Buffalo pump?
4 A No.
5 Q Were there any technical manuals for
6 the Buffalo pumps aboard the ship?
7 A We had no manuals on any of them.
8 Q Okay. Was there any manuals on the
9 ship that — associated with any of the equipment?
10 A No. We werent — if it was, we had no
11 access to it.
12 Q Okay. You testified that — on your
13 first day that some pumps had internal gaskets.
14 A Correct.
15 Q Okay. Do you recall any of the Buffalo
16 pumps having internal gaskets?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. As you sit here today, do you
19 recall performing any work specifically on an
20 internal gasket for a Buffalo pump?
21 A Yes. Can I ask — you mean packing,
414
1 too, or is that included?
2 Q We will get to packing.
3 A Okay.
4 Q I want to talk about the gasket.
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. How many times do you recall
7 doing internal gasket work on a Buffalo pump?
8 A I cant recall how many times.
9 Q Can you say if its more or less than
10 five times?
11 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
12 A I have no idea. I couldnt give you an
13 estimate.
14 Q Okay. The internal gasket associated
15 with the Buffalo pump, can you tell me where it was
16 located?
17 A Yeah. Yes, because — now I am going
18 back, but the gasket would be — sometimes they
19 had — its hard to explain. You might have a
20 flange, and then you have another piece thats like
21 a flange on the pump, and you have to take that off.
415
1 So, in other words, you had to take that gasket off
2 also.
3 Q Okay. I want to focus specifically
4 with Buffalo pumps.
5 A Yeah.
6 Q Okay. Do you recall where the internal
7 gasket on the Buffalo pump that you worked on was
8 located?
9 A It would be — Im getting confused
10 with packing, so –
11 Q Okay.
12 A Yes. That was the only thing I recall
13 after I would take the pump off would be the
14 packing.
15 Q Okay. So you never did internal gasket
16 work with a Buffalo pump?
17 A That would be internal on the shaft.
18 Q All right. You are talking packing, I
19 am talking gaskets here. I think we are getting a
20 little — we are crossing our legs here.
21 A No. No, no gaskets then, no.
416
1 Q You didnt do any gasket work on a
2 Buffalo pump?
3 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
4 A Yes, I did.
5 Q Okay. Now, you told — you said
6 internal gasket. Do you recall –
7 A Yes. The gasket –
8 Q Hold on a second. Let me finish my
9 question so we dont confuse the court reporter over
10 here.
11 The internal gasket on a Buffalo pump,
12 can you tell me where the internal gasket was
13 located? Not the packing, just the internal gasket
14 that you are speaking about.
15 A See, thats what Im — I am calling
16 the packing a gasket, so its — it would — so no.
17 Q Packing is a material that goes in the
18 packing gland, correct?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Okay. So you worked on packing on a
21 Buffalo pump, but not a gasket?
417
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. We are getting confused here a
3 little bit. So if you dont understand one of my
4 questions, please let me know. Okay? I am not
5 trying to confuse you on purpose.
6 Okay. Can you tell me how many times
7 you worked with packing on a Buffalo pump while you
8 were at ARCO?
9 A No, I couldnt give you an estimate of
10 how many times, no.
11 Q Okay. Could you say it was more or
12 less than five?
13 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
14 A I couldnt give you an estimate.
15 Q Okay. Can you tell me what the purpose
16 of the packing was in the pump?
17 A Yes. To form a seal.
18 Q Okay. And where was the packing
19 located?
20 A You take the packing nut off and notice
21 if the packing was on the shaft if thats the type
418
1 of pump it was.
2 Q Okay. So the packing was located in a
3 different area depending on the type of pump?
4 A Yes. Correct.
5 Q Okay. Specifically with the Buffalo
6 pump, can you tell me where — or the Buffalo pumps
7 that you saw, can you tell me where the packing
8 gland was?
9 A It was different ones with different
10 areas. No.
11 Q Okay. Can you tell me the size of the
12 packing gland on the Buffalo pumps that you saw?
13 A Different size pumps. No.
14 Q Can you give me a range of sizes?
15 A No.
16 Q The smallest one you ever saw to the
17 largest you ever saw?
18 A No.
19 Q Can you estimate with your hands the
20 size of a packing gland?
21 A There is different sizes. It could be
419
1 an inch to on up on packing.
2 Q Now, what was the largest packing gland
3 you ever saw?
4 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
5 A I couldnt give you an estimate of
6 how — because –
7 Q It wouldnt be two feet, would it?
8 A No. No. I couldnt — so I couldnt
9 give you — I couldnt recall.
10 Q Okay. And the packing gland on these
11 pumps, it was designed to leak; is that correct?
12 A What was the question?
13 Q The packing gland, it was designed to
14 leak?
15 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
16 A Everything was designed probably to
17 leak.
18 Q But thats what Im asking. Do you
19 know if the packing gland was designed to leak?
20 A You hope not. I would say it would be
21 designed to leak eventually because it would wear
420
1 out, yes.
2 Q Do you know if it was designed to leak
3 even if it was functioning properly?
4 A No.
5 Q You dont recall if there were any drip
6 rates associated with any of the pumps? Did you
7 ever hear that term, drip rate?
8 A Yeah, but I wouldnt recall it, no.
9 Q Can you describe for me the process of
10 how you would get to the packing gland to work on
11 the packing?
12 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
13 A You would have to disassemble the pump.
14 Q What would you have to do specifically?
15 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form. Are
16 you talking about a Buffalo pump?
17 MR. BABULA: Sure, a Buffalo pump.
18 A Well, if — its according to what it
19 was. It might be steam and it might be a water
20 pump.
21 BY MR. BABULA:
421
1 Q But Im asking, what did you have –
2 what parts of the pump did you have to take apart to
3 get to the packing gland?
4 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
5 Q Did you have to take anything –
6 A Yes. Sure. You had to take the
7 packing nut, naturally, that was around the shaft
8 off, you know.
9 Q Okay. And then you would have access?
10 After you would take the packing off, you had
11 access?
12 A What you would do is most of the time
13 the packing was very brittle. And you would pull it
14 out the best you could with like the little
15 corkscrew thing and — or then sometimes they used
16 like a wire. Its according to how big the packing
17 was. And then if we had access to an air hose, you
18 blew it out which was a dusty — very dusty, and it
19 would get all over you.
20 Q Now, if you noticed that a packing
21 gland on a pump was leaking, how long after you
422
1 noticed it was leaking would it get changed?
2 A As soon as we get to it.
3 Q You cant give me a range of time?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Were there times when you had to
6 change the packing on a pump where the packing was
7 wet because it was leaking?
8 A Water — a different pump, it might be
9 damp, yes, at different pumps, not all of them.
10 Q If the packing was damp or wet, there
11 wouldnt be dust, correct?
12 A And different pumps.
13 Q I am just asking wet packing. I
14 understand sometimes it was dry, sometimes it was
15 wet.
16 A The steam was — the steam would be
17 dry. The steam packing — the majority of it was
18 the steam.
19 Q Um-hmm.
20 A And that was the one that was brittle
21 and hard, yes.
423
1 Q Okay. Now, you didnt change packing
2 on pumps while you were at sea; is that correct?
3 A All the time.
4 Q At sea?
5 A Certainly.
6 Q And why would you change the packing at
7 sea?
8 A You had auxiliary pumps. In other
9 words, whatever you had, you had another set that
10 you could shut down that set and run your
11 auxiliaries.
12 Q If the packing gland was leaking,
13 couldnt you just tighten the nut and it would stop
14 the leak?
15 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
16 A Not really with steam.
17 Q No?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you ever — while you were at sea,
20 did you ever just cut a new piece of packing and put
21 it in to stop the leak as opposed to replacing the
424
1 whole packing?
2 A No. You had to take the nut off to get
3 the other out to blow it out and clean it out.
4 Q Right.
5 What I am asking is did you ever take
6 the nut off and put a new piece of packing in to
7 stop the leak while you were at sea?
8 A Most certainly, yes. Yes, all the
9 time.
10 Q Okay. And you said there was dust when
11 you had to pull the old packing out. Can you
12 describe what that dust looked like?
13 A Yes.
14 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
15 A It was black and real fine, very fine.
16 Q Okay. And there was pieces of the
17 packing, right, left in the gland?
18 A Thats why you would blow it, try to
19 blow it out.
20 MS. DIVITA: Objection to the form.
21 A Thats when you really got the dust is
425
1 when you blew it out with the air.
2 Q But you got most of the packing out of
3 the gland before you had to blow it out, right?
4 A We tried.
5 Q And not all the time? Sometimes it
6 would come out in big pieces, other times it
7 wouldnt, correct?
8 A Correct.
9 Q When you removed that packing, there
10 wasnt a big cloud of dust, right?
11 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
12 A It would be when I put the air on it.
13 Q Okay. Did you always have to use air?
14 A Ninety percent of the time.
15 Q Okay. How long did the process take to
16 remove the packing?
17 A I couldnt answer exactly how long.
18 Its according to what pump and where you were at
19 working at.
20 Q Well, could you give me a range of
21 times?
426
1 A As long as it took.
2 Q Okay. I mean, you testified that you
3 changed packing. Do you recall how long it took
4 you?
5 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
6 A As long as it took.
7 Q Okay. You cant put it in a matter of
8 minutes? Was it more or less than ten minutes?
9 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
10 A According to what size.
11 Q Okay. Could it have taken you less
12 than ten minutes if it was a small packing gland?
13 A No, no.
14 Q Okay.
15 A No.
16 Q How about the smallest packing — that
17 one-inch packing gland you told me about, how long
18 did it take you to change that packing?
19 A Well, its according to how hot
20 everything was. You had to wait until it cooled
21 down. It takes time.
427
1 Q Okay. Would it take less than 20
2 minutes?
3 A I couldnt give you an answer.
4 Q Would it take less than a day?
5 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
6 A Less than a day?
7 Q Right.
8 A Oh, yes, it would take you less than a
9 day.
10 Q Less than an hour?
11 A I couldnt give you an answer.
12 Q Do you recall, well, with the Buffalo
13 pumps how many rings of packing had to be used to
14 replace the old packing?
15 A How many –
16 Q What type of packing did you use?
17 A What kind of packing? The steam
18 packing. Its the hard — you cut it off and you –
19 whatever you needed as far as around that shaft and
20 put it in.
21 Q It came in a roll?
428
1 A It came in a roll, yes.
2 Q Okay. Do you recall the diameter of
3 any of that packing?
4 A It varied. Whatever size you needed.
5 Q Was it square or round, the packing?
6 A It was sort of — it was sort of like a
7 square, yes. It was –
8 Q Was it pliable? When it was new, was
9 it pliable?
10 A Yes. It was soft enough, yes.
11 Q Okay. Was it — did it have like a
12 film on it or like a grease?
13 A Not that I can recall any grease on it.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Its –
16 Q And how would you install new packing
17 if you — you know, you have the roll there. How
18 would you install the new packing?
19 A You would cut a piece off that you
20 would estimate, and then you would go there and then
21 you would put it around the — whatever the shaft,
429
1 and then you would cut some more of it off there and
2 fit it in and put your packing nut back on.
3 Q Okay. And how many pieces of packing
4 do you recall had to be used in a pump, in a Buffalo
5 pump?
6 A In all pumps. You would — some
7 guys — its all according to what — whoever was in
8 charge. Like if it was the pump man was with me, if
9 he wanted two pieces of packing, if he wanted — so
10 I couldnt give you an exact figure how many. Its
11 according to what the — whoever was on, you know,
12 with me would tell me what to put in there.
13 Q Okay. While you were a wiper — did
14 you ever have to change packing on any pump while
15 you were a wiper alone or were you always with
16 another worker?
17 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
18 A No. I was alone lots of times.
19 Q As a wiper?
20 A As a wiper, yes. I was what they call
21 a bull wiper. I was in charge of the other two
430
1 guys.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And they would give us an assignment
4 and get it done.
5 Q Okay.
6 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Excuse me. Can we
7 stop and change the tape, please?
8 MR. BABULA: Sure.
9 VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape number
10 1 of our video deposition of George Berglund. The
11 time is 10:57.
12 (Whereupon, pause in the proceedings.)
13 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
14 number 2 of our video deposition of George Berglund.
15 The time is 11 a.m.
16 BY MR. BABULA:
17 Q Okay. Sir, I think you had mentioned
18 before that the packing was kept in the storage
19 room, correct, up on the second level?
20 A Yes. Correct.
21 Q And how was it stored in that storage
431
1 room?
2 A We would have had the packing on a
3 pipe. It was — the packing was on reels. And you
4 would have a long pipe, and you would have the
5 different size on there. You could take it and cut
6 it off, (indicating).
7 Q Okay. The packing was loose, and it
8 was just hanging on the pipe?
9 A It was on the reels, yes.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Different size reels.
12 Q It wasnt in a box or anything?
13 A No. Everything was out of the — it
14 came in a box when it came in off the stores, but
15 you would take it and have it on the reel where you
16 could work on it.
17 Q There wouldnt be boxes in the storage
18 room, correct?
19 A Yes, there would be still boxes in
20 there.
21 Q There were boxes? What were the boxes
432
1 of?
2 A The boxes would be of the insulation
3 that you needed for the — you know, the lagging on
4 the pipe or — and then there was — everything.
5 Valves would be in there and different parts.
6 Q Now, you correct me if Im wrong.
7 Wouldnt that be a fire hazard aboard a ship, having
8 those boxes aboard?
9 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
10 A There was a lot of fire hazards, but
11 the boxes wasnt one of them.
12 Q No?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Now, the reel of the packing
15 that it was on when it was hanging on the pipe –
16 A Yes.
17 Q — was there any writing on it?
18 A Yes. It was the name of the company.
19 Most of it was Garlock, and then there was
20 Mansville.
21 Q Okay. Outside of the name of the
433
1 company –
2 A I mean, and then it was also John Crane
3 packing.
4 Q Outside of the name of who made the
5 packing, was there any other writing on the packing
6 or the reel?
7 A No. There was writing, yes, but I
8 couldnt recall it. It was what size and –
9 Q Okay.
10 A Yes.
11 Q The packing that you used on the
12 Buffalo pumps, do you know if you used
13 asbestos-containing packing?
14 A I guess.
15 Q And how do you know that?
16 A How do I know? Because it was on
17 the — for the steam.
18 Q Okay.
19 A And it had asbestos on the side.
20 Q On what?
21 A It did have asbestos on the box,
434
1 asbestos packing for steam, high temp. It would
2 have if it was the high temperature packing.
3 Q Where was that?
4 A That would be on the original, you
5 know, the boxes. It would be on the — like the
6 little piece of paper there because I remember
7 seeing it because we used to have to load the stores
8 on.
9 Q Okay. So you would see that on the
10 dock somewhere?
11 A Yeah. And you had to put the steam –
12 in other words, we had to put the steam packing
13 separate from the other packing.
14 Q Move to strike nonresponsive portions.
15 So you would see the boxes of the
16 packing on the dock somewhere?
17 A No. We had access for — the whole
18 ARCO refinery had their storeroom there in a place
19 called Fort Mifflin. And thats where we got our
20 storage from. And that was for also to run the
21 plant.
435
1 In other words, it was a big warehouse.
2 And we would get our stores from there.
3 Q Right.
4 But there were no boxes aboard the ship
5 for the packing, correct?
6 A Yes. Yes. We would have to load it
7 off, and we would have to carry it — we didnt have
8 no elevator. We had to carry it down. Thats why
9 you notice things a little more when you have got it
10 like this and you are carrying the stuff,
11 (indicating). But thats all I can remember on it.
12 Q Okay. Well, I just asked you five
13 minutes ago how the packing was stored in the
14 storage room. You said it was on the reel. You
15 didnt mention the box.
16 A Yes. You asked me, you said was there
17 any boxes in there, and I said yes.
18 Q Well, thats what Im asking you.
19 Where did you see the box of the packing if there
20 was no box of the packing aboard the ship? Did you
21 see it on the dock, did you see it in the storage
436
1 room?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
3 A You are talking about the ship and now
4 you are talking about the storage room. So it had
5 to come from the storeroom.
6 Q I am talking about the storeroom of the
7 ship.
8 A There was two storerooms.
9 Q I think we are getting confused here.
10 A There was a warehouse and then there is
11 a storeroom on a ship.
12 Q Okay. You didnt see the box in the
13 storeroom of the ship, you saw it in the storeroom
14 warehouse?
15 A No, no, no, no. We brought it on the
16 ship in the box. We would take it out of the box,
17 the reels.
18 Q Okay. What did you do with the boxes
19 after you put it in the storeroom?
20 A The boxes? If you didnt have — if
21 you emptied them, you got rid of them. But we
437
1 didnt always empty them. You only put one reel of
2 each on the rod. So, naturally, you had some laying
3 in the box.
4 Q Okay. I want to change work sites here
5 and talk to you about when you worked at New York
6 Ship. Okay?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And you said you were working aboard
9 the Kitty Hawk during new construction, right?
10 A Correct.
11 Q Okay. Do you recall what type of ship
12 the Kitty Hawk was?
13 A Yes. Aircraft carrier.
14 Q Okay. Can you estimate the size of
15 that ship?
16 A I know it was going to have a crew of
17 5,000 people, sailors.
18 Q Okay. You couldnt estimate — I mean,
19 what stage of the construction were they at when you
20 started working there?
21 A They were in the final stages.
438
1 Q Okay. So it was almost completed?
2 A About — they were about a year off,
3 year and a half — two years off, I guess, when I
4 got out of there.
5 Q Is there any way you can estimate to me
6 in feet, city blocks, football fields the length of
7 that ship?
8 A The exact length? No, I couldnt.
9 Q I mean, an aircraft carrier is a big
10 ship, right?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Would it be fair to say that if you
13 stood it on its end, it would be like a skyscraper?
14 A I guess it would.
15 Q Do you recall any specific spaces
16 aboard that ship where you actually worked?
17 A I worked in mostly all of them. I was
18 a gopher, what they called a gopher for pipe
19 covering.
20 Q Okay.
21 A So I had to bring supplies down, cut
439
1 them and then mix — I handed asbestos up in the
2 buckets and wherever they needed me and bring it
3 down. So I was all over that ship.
4 Q I think you worked there for eight to
5 nine months you said?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Is that about right?
8 But as far as specific spaces, you
9 cant say that you worked in a specific space, like
10 you worked in the galley or you worked in the living
11 quarters or you worked on the deck?
12 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
13 A All of them. I worked in all of them.
14 Q Okay. Did you — when you were aboard
15 that ship, did you have to cut the lagging for the
16 pipes on a daily basis?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did you have to mix the asbestos for
19 the lagging on the pipes on a daily basis?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. When you cut that lagging, was
440
1 it dusty?
2 A Very.
3 Q Okay.
4 A I would be white.
5 Q It was a lot dustier than the dust from
6 the packing; is that correct?
7 A The dust from the packing? Oh, on the
8 Kitty Hawk, yes.
9 Q And when you had to mix that asbestos,
10 what did you mix it with?
11 A Water.
12 Q Okay. When you — did it come in bags?
13 A It comes in bags just like concrete.
14 And you would dump it into a — like a concrete
15 trough, and you would just mix it up, and then you
16 would get buckets of it and take it wherever they
17 needed it.
18 Q Okay. When you mixed that material,
19 when you dumped it out of the bag, was it dusty?
20 A Very.
21 Q It was a lot dustier than the packing
441
1 material, correct?
2 A Yes. They were both dusty though.
3 Q Okay. And how many times per day while
4 you were aboard the Kitty Hawk would you mix that
5 asbestos?
6 A Constantly.
7 Q Was that your job all day?
8 A Yes, that was basically my job, that
9 and cutting pieces for them. See, I wasnt a
10 first-class pipe coverer where they used to get the
11 material delivered to them. I was the one that
12 delivered it all to them.
13 Q You were like the helper; is that fair?
14 A Basically to say in the beginning, yes.
15 Q Okay. Did there ever come a time when
16 you were working on the Kitty Hawk that you actually
17 became a pipe coverer and did the installation?
18 A Well, yes. We were considered pipe
19 coverers, but then I was — they put me in a class
20 and I worked with it. But I still had to do the
21 same thing, mix it when youre in that class.
442
1 Q Okay. I want to change subjects again
2 and talk to you about the time when Ms. Neal would
3 do the laundry. Okay?
4 A Yeah.
5 Q And you testified that she did your
6 laundry while she was living in Mercy Street in
7 South Phili; is that right?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay.
10 A Front and Mercy and also in Woodstown,
11 New Jersey.
12 Q Okay. We will get to that one
13 separate.
14 And I think you said the washer — the
15 washing machine was in the kitchen of that home?
16 A Yes. It was one of them little — in
17 South Philadelphia, little tiny row homes, and
18 everything was condensed, yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 A The cellar was dirt.
21 Q Did they have — the Mercy Street
443
1 house, was there a front yard and a backyard?
2 A A little tiny backyard.
3 Q Okay.
4 A It was an alleyway, in other words, an
5 alley and a little tiny yard.
6 Q And I think you said when she — they
7 didnt have a dryer, so when she washed the clothes,
8 they would hang them?
9 A Yes.
10 Q That was outside?
11 A Yes, in that little area outside.
12 Q Do you recall how big that kitchen was?
13 A I would say about 9 by maybe 12, 13,
14 somewhere in there, I dont know, because they ate
15 mostly in the dining room.
16 Q Okay. Was there a kitchen table there?
17 A A little one, yes.
18 Q Okay. Was there a refrigerator?
19 A Oh, yes. Yes.
20 Q And a sink, where they prepared the
21 food?
444
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you brought your clothes over there
3 in a duffle bag, correct?
4 A Correct.
5 Q Now, when Mrs. Neal did the laundry,
6 would she just take your clothes out and put them in
7 the washing machine?
8 A Well, she would, naturally — they were
9 still dirty — and then shake them a little bit over
10 the duffle bag, yes.
11 Q Okay. She would shake them out in the
12 kitchen?
13 A She would just shake them over the
14 duffle bag, yes.
15 Q Okay. So the dust wouldnt go all over
16 the place; is that correct?
17 A No, because the washer and all was, you
18 know, little — on the wall, far wall in a little
19 area there.
20 Q Okay. But when she shook them out,
21 most of the dust went back in the duffle bag?
445
1 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
2 A Yes.
3 Q All right. And the Woodstown home, you
4 described a shed where she did the laundry there.
5 A Yes.
6 Q Was that like a room at the back of the
7 house? It wasnt like a shed that was detached from
8 the house, right?
9 A No. It was connected to the house. It
10 was just a little shed off the — I mean right off
11 the dining room.
12 Q Okay. Other than the washer and dryer,
13 what else was there? What else was in that room?
14 A Nothing really.
15 Q It was just –
16 A Just –
17 Q Just for laundry?
18 A Just used for little farm stuff, you
19 know, hanging up clothes and whatnot. And Id put
20 my, like, coats and things like that, hang them up.
21 Q Okay. And would she do the same
446
1 process of washing your clothes in that home as she
2 did in the Mercy Street home?
3 A Correct.
4 Q I want to go back to ARCO for a second.
5 I forgot to ask you a couple questions.
6 Of the six ships you were on, do you
7 recall which ones you were actually on while they
8 were in drydock?
9 A Just about all of them if I — all of
10 them.
11 Q Okay. Would it be one time in drydock
12 per ship?
13 A There was a couple I might have been in
14 twice. I would say yes, I was in drydock with each
15 one of them.
16 Q Okay.
17 A I cant recall how many times. Maybe
18 twice a year in drydock with different ships because
19 they would take you — like I said before, they
20 would take you off the one ship and maybe put you on
21 another one. And lots of times the guys, senior
447
1 guys didnt want to go to drydock, so I would get
2 that.
3 Q Okay.
4 A That task.
5 Q You say that they didnt want to go to
6 drydock?
7 A They didnt like to go. There was a
8 lot of work involved. And I was considered a fairly
9 good worker then.
10 Q And I think you testified — I had a
11 little — I was confused when I was reading your
12 testimony from the first day. You would go out the
13 14 days to go wherever you are going, to Texas or –
14 A Yes, something like that.
15 Q — South America, wherever you were
16 going. And then you would come back, and then you
17 would have 18 hours off?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And then you would go back to the ship;
20 is that correct?
21 A Most of the time, yes. Sometimes you
448
1 didnt go right back. You might have had a little
2 longer, just a little bit longer until the other
3 ship came in.
4 Q Okay.
5 A Say you got discharged from that ship.
6 Then you might have had a little more than 18 hours
7 until the other ship.
8 Q Okay. Now, while you were aboard the
9 ship making these runs back and forth, did you work
10 every day or did you have days off?
11 A You had — as a wiper, you had the
12 weekends off.
13 Q Okay. So you had time off, it was just
14 still on the ship?
15 A Yeah. But you couldnt go nowhere.
16 You were still on the ship, remember that.
17 Q Right. Understood.
18 A And there was times, now, when you did
19 work, to answer that right. I mean, it wasnt all
20 the time. If there was an emergency or say there
21 was a repair job and they need you, you would work.
449
1 Q Okay.
2 A That would be considered overtime.
3 Q All right. I think you talked about on
4 your first day — Im going to go back to the pumps
5 now. There is pipes that are connected to the
6 pumps, correct, that moves whatever the pump is
7 pumping?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Okay. And then there is a valve on
10 each end to stop the flow of whatever is moving; is
11 that correct?
12 A It would be a valve or two, sometimes
13 just one, yes. Its according to what that was,
14 yeah.
15 Q All right. Now, between the valve and
16 the pump, there was more pipe, correct?
17 A Sometimes it would be right — butt
18 up — in other words, you would have the flange
19 right there to it.
20 Q Okay. The flange right to the valve?
21 A Flange — in other words, a flange with
450
1 a valve on it, yes.
2 Q But my question, the valve was a
3 separate piece of equipment as opposed to the pump,
4 correct?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And as far as with the Buffalo
7 pumps, you dont know if you were the first person
8 ever to change the packing on one of those Buffalo
9 pumps; is that correct?
10 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
11 A That would be correct because they were
12 new in the shipyard, and I wouldnt have done that,
13 no.
14 Q Right.
15 MR. BABULA: Sir, I think those are all
16 my questions. I might have a couple more, but I am
17 going to let someone else go for now. Thank you.
18 MR. FORER: Can I talk from here or do
19 you want me to sit –
20 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Thats fine where
21 you are.
451
1 EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. FORER:
3 Q Good morning, sir. My name is –
4 A Good morning.
5 Q Do you want to take a break, a short
6 break?
7 A No, Im all right.
8 Q Okay. Hi. Im Charles Forer.
9 I want to talk briefly first about the
10 Kitty Hawk. You said a few minutes ago that you
11 were all over the ship?
12 A Correct, I was all over.
13 Q And you were on the Kitty Hawk for
14 about seven or eight months?
15 A Eight months, yes.
16 Q Eight months.
17 Did you ever go around the turbines at
18 the Kitty Hawk?
19 A Yes. I delivered material down there,
20 yes.
21 Q When you delivered material, were the
452
1 turbines being worked on? Were they being
2 installed?
3 A They were — if I remember, they were
4 already there. There was people working — you have
5 got to recall — I mean think about — they are
6 building a ship. There was so many people.
7 In other words, I am rushing around.
8 And I would take the material down to them and then
9 go to the next area where I had to go.
10 Q Okay. But my question was were the
11 turbines at that point 100 percent installed or were
12 they still working on the installation of the
13 turbines?
14 A I believe they were still working on it
15 then. I couldnt recall.
16 Q Okay. Do you know what they were doing
17 on the turbines at that time when you were around
18 the turbines?
19 A No, I couldnt know what they were
20 doing because I wasnt paying attention to what they
21 were doing.
453
1 Q How many turbines were on the Kitty
2 Hawk that were being installed?
3 A I couldnt recall.
4 Q Was it more than one?
5 A I believe there was two. There was a
6 couple different engine rooms that I went into. I
7 couldnt recall exactly.
8 Q What was the purpose of each of the
9 turbines that you saw on the Kitty Hawk that was
10 being installed?
11 A What would be the purpose? I didnt
12 watch them being installed. I was just delivering
13 the products to the people that was working. And
14 they werent working directly on the turbine, they
15 were working on lines that might have been around
16 there in that room.
17 Q Were they working on any insulation
18 regarding the turbines when you were around the
19 turbines on the Kitty Hawk?
20 A There was insulation, yes.
21 Q Were they working on it though?
454
1 A I would say yes.
2 Q Do you believe that there was dust
3 created when they were working on that insulation?
4 A There was dust created all over there,
5 yes, because the dust from the cutting — when they
6 were doing all these lines that was going to it,
7 they would be cutting that insulation, yes.
8 Q And the insulation that they were
9 cutting was insulation that was being used to be put
10 on the turbines; is that right?
11 A To the turbine?
12 Q Yeah.
13 A That was a different type of
14 insulation. And I didnt get involved right with
15 that insulation on the turbine, no.
16 Q No. But just so we are clear, you saw
17 workers cutting insulation, and after it was cut,
18 that insulation was going to be installed on one or
19 more turbines on the Kitty Hawk; is that right?
20 A That is correct.
21 Q And the cutting of the insulation and
455
1 the installing of the insulation on the turbines
2 created dust?
3 A That would be correct.
4 Q And do you believe you were exposed to
5 that dust?
6 A I was exposed every day to it because I
7 was around all the dust in there because I was the
8 one that was bringing the material.
9 Q And did that dust get on your clothes?
10 A Covered. We had no coveralls. They
11 didnt give us nothing to wear.
12 Q Do you know who the manufacturer or
13 manufacturers were of the turbines that were being
14 installed on the Kitty Hawk?
15 A They were — I believe they were GE.
16 No, I couldnt give you — GE, I believe.
17 Q Okay. Now, I want to turn to the six
18 ships that you were talking about in response to
19 questions of the last gentleman. Okay? So we are
20 leaving the Kitty Hawk. Are you with me so far?
21 A Yes.
456
1 Q Okay. Were there turbines on each of
2 these six ships?
3 A With Atlantic?
4 Q Yeah, on The Atlantic –
5 A Yes, they were all SS.
6 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Excuse me. Your
7 microphone is under the table.
8 MR. FORER: Im sorry.
9 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: You might just
10 want to put it on you. We can hear you better.
11 Thank you.
12 BY MR. FORER:
13 Q Lets talk about — we will talk about
14 The Seaman first. Okay? How many turbines were on
15 The Seaman?
16 A One.
17 Q And were you present when work took
18 place on this turbine?
19 A In the shipyard, yes.
20 Q What work was being done on this
21 turbine on the USS Atlantic Seaman?
457
1 A Well, after they broke any of the
2 insulation off it, they would unbolt the cover of it
3 and pick it up, and then they would have people from
4 Westinghouse in there, and they would mike or
5 whatever they did inside with the fins of the
6 turbine. Sometimes they repaired it.
7 Q Okay. And I am a little confused.
8 Were they replacing a turbine with another turbine?
9 A No. No. They would just be rebuilding
10 it, I guess. I dont know what their function was.
11 Q Okay. So there was one turbine on The
12 Seaman in drydock, and that one turbine was being,
13 as you understand, serviced or repaired in some
14 fashion?
15 A Correct.
16 Q How long did that process take?
17 A We were in there basically
18 approximately a month each time we were in there.
19 Q And you personally did not do any work
20 on the turbine; is that right?
21 A I did the cleanup of the mess.
458
1 Q No, no. Forget the cleanup of the
2 mess.
3 A Oh, no.
4 Q The actual work of the turbine, that
5 was not part of your duties?
6 A No.
7 Q That was not part of your
8 responsibilities?
9 A That wasnt in the shipyard, no. That
10 was — the shipyard unbolted it and they took it
11 off, and then you had the people coming — the
12 engineers coming in from Westinghouse.
13 Q Okay. So you personally did not do any
14 maintenance or installation or service or repair
15 work on the turbine on The Seaman; is that right?
16 A I did at sea, not in the shipyard.
17 Q Okay. Not in the shipyard.
18 But you dont know what specific work
19 was being done during this period while The Seaman
20 was in drydock; is that right?
21 A That is correct.
459
1 Q What type of turbine was it? Can you
2 describe the type of turbine it was?
3 A Steam.
4 Q How big was it?
5 A I couldnt give you an estimate the
6 size of it back then.
7 Q Who manufactured the turbine?
8 A On the three sister ships, it was
9 Westinghouse.
10 Q Do you know if the — let me ask you
11 this way. How many people were actually doing the
12 work of rebuilding or repairing or servicing this
13 turbine?
14 A There was a lot of workers working on
15 it, but there was only a couple people that like –
16 and I guess they were engineers because I was
17 talking to them. And thats why I know they were
18 from Westinghouse.
19 Q Okay. Do you know if they were
20 installing anything on the turbine?
21 A Something about the fins. Thats all I
460
1 remember.
2 Q Other than the –
3 A I couldnt tell you what they were
4 doing.
5 Q Sorry.
6 Other than the fins, do you know if
7 they were installing anything else on this turbine?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you know if they were replacing
10 anything on this turbine?
11 A Yes. They were putting different
12 parts, but I couldnt tell you. I had my own chores
13 to do. I didnt sit and watch them.
14 Q Do you know what different parts they
15 were putting on?
16 A No.
17 Q Do you know if they were cleaning
18 anything on this turbine?
19 A Well, they had to clean before they
20 took it apart, if thats what you mean.
21 Q Okay. Were you present when they
461
1 cleaned it?
2 A I had to clean a lot of the mess up,
3 yes.
4 Q No. But my question is were you
5 present when they were actually –
6 A Yes.
7 Q — doing the cleaning work?
8 A Yes, because we would be working on
9 something right in that area.
10 Q And were they doing any cutting work in
11 connection with this work on the turbine on The
12 Seaman?
13 A When you say cutting work –
14 Q Yeah. Did they have to cut anything
15 either on the turbine or cutting something that had
16 to go onto the turbine?
17 A Not that I recall. I dont remember
18 that.
19 Q Do you know if they removed anything
20 from the turbine in connection with this work?
21 A Yes.
462
1 Q And what did they remove?
2 A They removed the top of it so they
3 could see the internal part of it.
4 Q Were you present when they actually
5 physically removed the top?
6 A Yes. I would be working in that area.
7 Because they had the chain hoists moving it, yes.
8 Q Did you watch them remove the top?
9 A I didnt sit there and watch them, no.
10 Q Do you know what that process entailed
11 to remove the top of the turbine?
12 A That wasnt my job.
13 Q But do you know what the process
14 entailed now?
15 A Yes. They had to set up a crane and
16 they had a — through the skylights, and they had a
17 chain, big chain hoist. And they would have to take
18 these bolts off because I know when they put them
19 back in, they had — it took almost a day for them
20 to knock all the bolts back on it.
21 Q How long did it take to take the top
463
1 off?
2 A I couldnt give — they worked 24 hours
3 on that part, and I was only in the daytime.
4 Q Was any insulation removed from the
5 turbine as part of this work?
6 A Yes. Because it was steam, there was
7 insulation around connecting to the pipes, the lines
8 going into the turbine.
9 Q Okay. How was the insulation removed?
10 Do you know?
11 A How was it removed? Yes.
12 Q How?
13 A You would just take it right off and
14 try to take it off in pieces and put it into the
15 container.
16 Q What container was it put in?
17 A That container would be right there
18 actually on the side of it by the deck on the floor
19 plates there.
20 Q And what was the purpose of the
21 container? To discard this old insulation?
464
1 A Yes. And they took that off with
2 the — out and dumped it wherever they dumped it
3 back then.
4 Q Did you dump this insulation or did
5 they?
6 A They dumped it. We cleaned it up.
7 Q Okay. Were you present when they
8 actually removed the insulation?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did you watch them remove the
11 insulation?
12 A I seen them working on it. I was busy
13 working on other things right in that area.
14 Q How long did it take to remove the
15 insulation?
16 A That I couldnt tell you. It didnt
17 take them long because — again, I will say 24 hours
18 they were working because we only had so long to be
19 in there.
20 Q But you werent there 24 hours, were
21 you?
465
1 A No, no, no.
2 Q Okay. But I guess my question is, to
3 remove the insulation, did it take an hour or a day
4 or some other period?
5 A I would say it took — with the
6 workers, it probably took them over a day.
7 Q Did any part of the turbine contain
8 asbestos?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What part of the turbine contained
11 asbestos? And, again, all these questions relate to
12 The Seaman.
13 A Okay.
14 Q What part of the turbine contained
15 asbestos?
16 A They had the different lines going into
17 the turbine, you know, had asbestos on it. And then
18 there was some areas there that was covered with
19 asbestos.
20 Q When you say areas, what type of areas
21 or what areas were covered with asbestos?
466
1 A I couldnt recall now. Its just like
2 around the — to explain it to you. But there was
3 some there I remember that they had to take off.
4 Q So there was asbestos on the lines and
5 there was asbestos in some other area; is that
6 right?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Was there asbestos any other place?
9 A I couldnt recall.
10 Q Did this work that they were doing on
11 The Seaman take place on these asbestos lines or
12 these asbestos-covered lines?
13 A Some of it, yes, because I was working
14 on some of those lines, yes.
15 Q What work did you do personally on
16 these lines?
17 A On lines? Like I would be away from it
18 a little bit, but we would be working on different
19 valves that needed work like putting — replacing
20 gaskets, doing whatever they needed to be done, they
21 wanted done.
467
1 Q Now, were you working on valves that
2 were part of the turbine or valves near the turbine?
3 A Not on the turbine, going to the
4 turbine. It would be steam, different steam lines,
5 yes.
6 Q So the lines that were going to the
7 turbine were not part of the turbine itself,
8 correct?
9 A Well, it was still — the insulation
10 was, yes.
11 Q No, no, no. But you have a turbine and
12 then you have lines going to and from the turbine.
13 Do we agree with that?
14 A Correct.
15 Q And the turbine itself is a piece of
16 machinery, piece of equipment? Do we agree with
17 that?
18 A That is correct.
19 Q And there are lines going to and from
20 the turbine, and those are not part of the turbine
21 itself. Do we agree with that?
468
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. Now, you also said that there
3 was asbestos in some other area on the turbine, but
4 you were unclear. Do you know what that area was?
5 A Yes. I am trying to — it was on
6 the — I believe it was on the back end where it
7 goes — where the — by where the shaft — where it
8 goes out for the shaft. I believe thats where it
9 was.
10 Q Now, was this asbestos on the back end,
11 was this the back end of the turbine or was it a
12 line connected to the turbine?
13 A I guess it would — the top of the
14 turbine, there was no asbestos on the top exactly,
15 what I — you know, where they took it off.
16 Q Okay. So this asbestos in this area
17 was actually not asbestos on the turbine, but it was
18 asbestos on some lines connected to the turbine; is
19 that right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Now, you also said there was
469
1 asbestos insulation on the turbine, right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And that was removed?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And that process you said took less
6 than a day to remove?
7 A I would say. I have no idea how long
8 it would take for them to remove it.
9 Q And although you saw the removal
10 process or at least part of the process, you dont
11 know specifically what took place in order to take
12 that insulation off the turbine; is that correct?
13 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
14 A Thats correct. I was only there eight
15 hours. They were there 24.
16 Q Okay. After the insulation was taken
17 off the — after the insulation was taken off the
18 turbine and discarded, was new insulation put on?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Who put on that new insulation?
21 A In the shipyard, around the turbine,
470
1 they would do that.
2 Q And what was the process or what did
3 the process entail of putting new insulation on the
4 turbine on The Seaman?
5 A The process was we had to clean up all
6 the old stuff that was there and — this was part of
7 the process. And then they would come in — I guess
8 they had their regular pipe coverers come in, and
9 they would take care of that area around the
10 turbine.
11 Q Did you watch them install the new
12 insulation on the turbine?
13 A We would be working right around in
14 that area, yes.
15 Q But did you watch them?
16 A I couldnt watch anybody. I seen them,
17 but I didnt watch them. I was busy.
18 Q Okay. But is it fair to say you dont
19 really know what the process involved of putting on
20 the new insulation on the turbine?
21 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
471
1 A Yes. They had to cut the pieces just
2 the same as I did in the shipyard.
3 In other words, it was just a dusty
4 mess.
5 Q Now, the turbine that we have been
6 talking about on The Seaman, that had already been
7 installed, the original turbine, before you ever got
8 on the ship; is that right?
9 A Correct.
10 Q And it had already been operating
11 before you ever got on the ship?
12 A Correct.
13 Q You were not present during the
14 original installation of that turbine, were you?
15 A Correct.
16 Q And you were not present when that
17 turbine originally was laid into place on the ship?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And you werent present when the
20 turbine was lowered into the hull of the ship, were
21 you?
472
1 A No.
2 Q Did you ever see the specifications
3 with regard to that turbine?
4 A No.
5 Q Did you ever see the specifications
6 with regard to the turbine insulation?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you ever see drawings or plans with
9 regard to the turbine or the turbine insulation?
10 A No. And there was no warning signs
11 either.
12 Q Okay. But I move to strike that.
13 My question was simply did you ever see
14 drawings or plans with regard to the turbine or the
15 turbine insulation?
16 A No.
17 Q Was the turbine already insulated when
18 it was delivered to the ship originally?
19 A I wasnt there when the ship was being
20 built.
21 Q So you dont know when the turbine was
473
1 insulated, do you?
2 A No, I do not.
3 Q And you dont know who supplied the
4 insulation for that turbine, do you?
5 A The original insulation?
6 Q Yeah.
7 A No, not the original.
8 Q Do you know what type of insulation it
9 was? I understand you are saying it was asbestos.
10 But what type of asbestos insulation was it?
11 A Its according to what you were — some
12 of it was — on the pipes was pre-made, and then
13 there was the other that you had to mix up.
14 Q No. I am talking about the insulation
15 that was already on the turbine before you even got
16 onto The Seaman. What type of insulation was that?
17 A Asbestos.
18 Q No, I understand it was asbestos. What
19 type of asbestos? Was it asbestos block, asbestos
20 cement, an asbestos blanket? Do you know what kind?
21 A Some of it was blanket, yes. And –
474
1 there was some blanket, yes.
2 Q Other than the asbestos blanket, was
3 there any other type of asbestos insulation?
4 A Yes. You had the regular asbestos –
5 you have got to remember, a lot of this from when it
6 was new was removed and replaced, and some of it
7 wasnt no more of the blanket. We were hoping you
8 would have a blanket like when we were at sea to put
9 on there, but you had to make it up if you didnt
10 have it.
11 In other words, we would have to mix it
12 up and put it on.
13 Q Now, I am getting confused. When you
14 said you had to mix it up and put it on, you had to
15 put on insulation?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And this is when you were out at sea?
18 A Yes, at sea. And even in the shipyard,
19 but not on the turbine in the shipyard.
20 Q But let me make sure I am clear about
21 this. So when you were out at sea on The Seaman –
475
1 A Yes.
2 Q — you sometimes had to put insulation
3 on the turbine on The Seaman; is that right?
4 A Not directly on the turbine. Around on
5 the lines going to it.
6 Q Okay. But, again, as we said before,
7 those lines were lines that were connected to but
8 not part of the turbine; is that right?
9 A Well, it was all connected, thats all
10 I know.
11 Q Okay. But it wasnt part of the
12 original turbine machinery; agreed?
13 A It wasnt right at the — it was onto
14 the turbine.
15 Q I understand. It was going to the
16 turbine, but it was not part of the turbine itself;
17 agreed?
18 A I agree that its not — yes, it wasnt
19 the turbine.
20 Q Okay. Now, when you were on the ship
21 at sea, how did you — how were your clothes
476
1 laundered?
2 A Well, if you wanted to wash them, you
3 could wash them.
4 Q When you got off — well, did your wife
5 ever wash those clothes that got dirty while you
6 were out at sea?
7 A When I brought them home, yes.
8 Q Okay. So you would bring your clothes
9 home when you returned to land?
10 A Yes. Yes.
11 Q Now, we were talking about The Atlantic
12 Seaman, right?
13 A Correct.
14 Q If I was to ask you questions about all
15 the other five ships you were on, would your answers
16 be the same in terms of what I have been asking you?
17 Was there any difference on any of these other
18 ships?
19 A No. It basically would have been the
20 same. The internal parts of any of the turbines we
21 never touched, naturally. And, basically, the three
477
1 ships, the sister ships is the exact same thing.
2 Everything would be the same. You could ask me the
3 questions, but they would be the same.
4 Q Okay. Now, of these six ships, The
5 Seaman, The Atlantic Navigator, The Atlantic
6 Engineer, the Tuttle and The Voyager and The
7 Communicator, was there any one of those six ships
8 that you spent more time on versus other ships?
9 A Yeah, there was one of them. I believe
10 it was either The Engineer or The Seaman I spent a
11 lot of time on.
12 Q And other than those two ships, was
13 your time spent on the other ships rather equal?
14 A No. It was bouncing back and forth.
15 Q No, no. But I guess my question is if
16 we took all six ships and we asked you how many
17 total days did you spend on each of the six ships
18 total, is there any one or two ships that you spent
19 more time on versus other ships?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. And which were they?
478
1 A It would be The Seaman and The
2 Engineer.
3 Q Now, I want to ask you about the
4 Tuttle. What was your understanding of the name of
5 the Tuttle?
6 A I believe it was the R.C. Tuttle that I
7 can recall.
8 Q R.C. Tuttle.
9 Have you ever heard of a ship called
10 the J.H. Tuttle?
11 A No.
12 Q And The Voyager, was that really known
13 as the Hess Voyager?
14 A No. It was SS Atlantic Voyager.
15 Q SS Atlantic Voyager.
16 And the Tuttle, was it the SS R.C.
17 Tuttle or was there an Atlantic in there?
18 A I recall it was the SS R.C. Tuttle.
19 Most all of them did have Atlantic in front of it
20 though. It could have been. I wasnt on that ship
21 that much.
479
1 Q You mentioned a few minutes ago –
2 again, I am asking about The Seaman, but it sounds
3 like your answers would be the same for all these
4 ships. And rather than ask you all these questions
5 for the other five ships, we will just stick with
6 your answers on The Seaman. Is that fair?
7 A Thats fair.
8 Q Okay. Now, you said on The Seaman that
9 the guys were installing something, and you referred
10 to fins; is that right?
11 A I believe thats what it was. It was
12 internal parts of — they were working on internal
13 parts of the turbine, yes.
14 Q Did the fins that they were installing
15 contain asbestos?
16 A No. Everything was steel then that I
17 seen. I mean, I wasnt there watching them, but it
18 looked like just everything was steel.
19 Q And were fins installed on any of the
20 ships other than the SS Atlantic Seaman?
21 A They worked just — basically, every
480
1 one of those ships, at one time or another, they
2 took it apart and did work on that turbine.
3 Q And its your understanding that the
4 work that they did on each of these six ships, The
5 Seaman and the other five ships, was to install
6 these fins internally?
7 A I didnt know what they were doing. I
8 mean, they didnt tell me exactly what they were
9 doing. All I know is they had their engineer,
10 Westinghouse had their engineer there, and he would
11 oversee what was being done.
12 Q Okay. So that Im clear, is it fair to
13 say that at least you know that fins were installed
14 on some of the turbines on these ships; is that
15 right?
16 A That is correct. I really couldnt
17 tell you.
18 Q But other than installing fins on these
19 ships, you really dont know what the turbine work
20 consisted of; is that right?
21 A Right. I didnt know exactly what they
481
1 were doing on it, no.
2 Q Okay. Now, you say that you were
3 working at the same time that the turbine work was
4 going on; is that right?
5 A That is correct.
6 Q And what were you doing?
7 A I would be working with either the pump
8 man or one of the other workers, and — I am talking
9 about the wipers. And we would be doing — we would
10 get our list of what we needed to do that morning,
11 and then we would be working on lines, tearing –
12 like rebuilding a valve or, basically, whatever
13 needed to be done. I couldnt recall exactly every
14 time what I was doing there.
15 Q And the work that you were doing was
16 taking place in a different part of this room; is
17 that right?
18 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
19 A Its all in a small area. Everything
20 is condensed.
21 Q No, I understand that. But you were –
482
1 the work that you were doing –
2 A Yes.
3 Q — was different — in terms of where
4 it was taking place was in a different place in the
5 room as opposed to the turbine; is that right?
6 A Well, it was only so many feet
7 sometimes. We were close to it. But –
8 Q But it was in a different part of the
9 room?
10 A No, because like I said before, we had
11 to clean up a lot of times the mess. The shipyard
12 was supposed to do most of it, but they didnt do
13 it.
14 Q No, no. My question isnt your
15 cleaning up of the mess. My question is the work
16 that you were doing on the pumps and the valves –
17 A Yes.
18 Q — that work was taking place in a
19 different part of that room; agreed?
20 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
21 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
483
1 A Well, it wouldnt be right on the
2 turbine, no.
3 Q Okay. The fins that were being
4 installed on some of these turbines, do you know who
5 manufactured the fins?
6 A I have no idea about the internal
7 parts. The only reason why I know who made the
8 turbine is because it had a big brass plate sitting
9 right on it.
10 Q Okay. Now, I want to switch gears. I
11 want to talk now about pumps. Okay? And I am not
12 going to re-cover the questions that he so ably
13 asked. I just want to clean that up, and Ill see
14 if I can get out quickly.
15 At your first deposition, you said that
16 you worked about — you worked on more than a
17 hundred pumps while you were at the Atlantic
18 refinery. Do you recall that?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So my question is approximately how
21 many pumps overall did you work on? Was it about a
484
1 hundred, was it 110?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
3 A Lots and lots of pumps. Lots of pumps.
4 Q And you said — you identified at least
5 four manufacturers of pumps, and you said there was
6 another brand, a fifth company; is that right?
7 A I said there might have been more. It
8 might have been more, but I cant recall them.
9 Q And you said most of the pumps did not
10 have insulation on them, right, on the pump itself?
11 MR. BABULA: Objection.
12 A At the pump itself, no, they did not
13 have insulation right directly on them because some
14 of them were electric, they had different things
15 connected to it.
16 Q Okay. Now, of the different pumps that
17 you worked on, were there any pumps or any
18 manufacturers pumps that you worked on more than
19 others?
20 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
21 MR. BABULA: Objection.
485
1 A I couldnt recall.
2 Q And you said some of the pumps had
3 internal gaskets. Do you recall you said that?
4 A Yes. The gasket — Im referring
5 mostly to packing. Maybe I was confused. The
6 packing — most of them had packing. Thats what
7 I –
8 Q Okay. But I think what you said is
9 some of the pumps had internal gaskets. Is that
10 accurate?
11 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
12 A Yes, in a way because, see, it might
13 have been two pieces to that pump.
14 In other words, you had — if you took
15 the one section off, you had — there was a gasket
16 in between there, yes.
17 Q Did all of the pumps have internal
18 gaskets or did some of the pumps have internal
19 gaskets?
20 MR. BABULA: Objection.
21 A No, no, no, I couldnt recall which
486
1 pumps specifically, but some of them had that type
2 of gasket I am talking about in two sections of the
3 pump.
4 Q But you dont know which manufacturers
5 pumps had those gaskets or which manufacturers
6 pumps didnt have those gaskets; is that correct?
7 A That is correct.
8 Q And you said that some of the pumps had
9 shafts on them where you had to take the packing off
10 and put in new packing. Do you recall that?
11 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
12 A That is correct.
13 Q Did all of the pumps have shafts on
14 them?
15 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
16 A No.
17 Q Do you know which manufacturers pumps
18 had shafts and which manufacturers pumps didnt
19 have shafts?
20 A No, I couldnt give you that, no.
21 Q Now, before you got onto the ship,
487
1 these pumps that you worked on had already been
2 installed; is that right?
3 A That is correct.
4 Q And they were already operating before
5 you got on the ship?
6 A That is correct.
7 Q You were not present during the
8 original installation of the pump on the ship?
9 MR. BABULA: Objection.
10 A On none of them.
11 Q Were you present when any of these
12 pumps were originally delivered or installed on any
13 of these ships?
14 A No.
15 Q Did you ever see the specifications for
16 any of these pumps?
17 MR. BABULA: Objection.
18 A Only the ones we tore off maybe, there
19 might be some specifications, but I couldnt give
20 you what they were.
21 Q And you dont recall –
488
1 A Because it would be on the side plate
2 of it.
3 Q But other than the side plate that was
4 affixed to the pump, did you see any other
5 specifications in writing?
6 A No.
7 Q Did you ever see any drawings or plans
8 with regard to any of these pumps that you worked
9 on?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you know — now, strike that.
12 I want to ask you about the
13 Westinghouse pumps. You said that that was one of
14 the manufacturers of pumps; is that right?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Did the Westinghouse pumps look
17 different from each other or was it always the same
18 type of Westinghouse pump?
19 A No. There was some different, I guess.
20 I couldnt recall exactly what the difference was,
21 no.
489
1 Q How many different types of
2 Westinghouse pumps did you work on while you were on
3 any of these six ships?
4 A I couldnt recall.
5 Q Was it more than one type of
6 Westinghouse pump?
7 A There would be more than one, yes.
8 Q What were the different types of –
9 well, let me ask you this way. What were the
10 purposes of the different types of Westinghouse
11 pumps that you worked on?
12 A I worked on so many different — I
13 couldnt recall.
14 Q What were the dimensions of the
15 different Westinghouse pumps that you worked on?
16 A I couldnt recall.
17 Q Can you give me any physical
18 description of any of the Westinghouse pumps you
19 worked on?
20 A I couldnt recall.
21 Q Can you tell me by ship, by name of
490
1 ship any ship that actually had a Westinghouse pump
2 on it?
3 A Any ship? Beside the shipyard?
4 Q When you say beside the shipyard, I am
5 asking give me the name of a ship that you worked on
6 that had a Westinghouse pump.
7 A The three sister ships.
8 Q Okay. So you are testifying –
9 A I know that. I know they had them
10 because I remember seeing them.
11 Q Okay. So The Seaman, The Navigator and
12 The Engineer all had Westinghouse pumps?
13 A Im almost positive they had them, they
14 had some on there.
15 Q I am sorry. You are positive?
16 A They had some, yes.
17 Q Do you know how many Westinghouse pumps
18 were on The Seaman?
19 A No.
20 Q Do you know how many Westinghouse pumps
21 were on The Atlantic Navigator?
491
1 A No.
2 Q Do you know how many Westinghouse pumps
3 were on The Atlantic Engineer?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know the purpose of the
6 Westinghouse pumps that were on The Seaman?
7 A I couldnt give you exact what the
8 function was, no.
9 Q Do you know the purpose of any of the
10 Westinghouse pumps that were on The Navigator?
11 A No.
12 Q Do you know the purpose of any of the
13 Westinghouse pumps that were on The Atlantic
14 Engineer?
15 A No.
16 Q Can you tell me whether you ever worked
17 on Westinghouse pumps that were on The Seaman?
18 A I worked on all pumps. And I couldnt
19 give you exactly — I worked on them though, yes.
20 Q Okay. Do you recall what you did on
21 the Westinghouse pump or pumps that were on The
492
1 Seaman?
2 A Took them off sometimes and put them in
3 for the — disconnected them for the machinist to
4 work on them.
5 Q Other than disconnecting the pump or
6 pumps that were on The Seaman, did you do any other
7 work on the Westinghouse pumps on The Seaman?
8 A Naturally, they would take the gaskets.
9 Q You say you took the gaskets off?
10 A Yes.
11 Q How many times did you do that on The
12 Seaman?
13 A I cant recall.
14 Q And on The Navigator and The Engineer,
15 can you recall what specific work you did on the
16 Westinghouse pumps?
17 A The same, maintenance on them. If it
18 needed to be replaced, take them off while they get
19 rebuilt.
20 Q Okay. But do you specifically recall
21 on The Navigator actually disconnecting any
493
1 Westinghouse pumps on The Navigator?
2 A Yes.
3 Q How many times did you do that?
4 A I couldnt recall.
5 Q And did you do — can you recall
6 specifically the work that you did on The Atlantic
7 Engineer on Westinghouse pumps or pump?
8 A Just maintenance, taking them off.
9 Q And when you say taking them off for
10 all this, you are talking about disconnecting the
11 pump?
12 A Disconnecting.
13 Q Okay.
14 A And if they need work, yes.
15 Q Was the process of disconnecting a
16 Westinghouse pump, whether it was on The Seaman, The
17 Navigator or The Engineer, the same process?
18 A It would have been, yes.
19 Q Okay. Tell me or explain to me what
20 that process was all about.
21 A What the process?
494
1 Q Yeah. What did it –
2 A You had to disconnect — naturally, you
3 had to disconnect the line and scrape off the gasket
4 before you put — before it goes back on.
5 Q And how long did it take to disconnect
6 the line and scrape off the gasket to do it — on
7 one of these pumps?
8 A As long as it took as big as –
9 according to the size of the pump.
10 Q And you dont recall the size of the
11 Westinghouse pumps, do you?
12 A No.
13 Q And was this work done at drydock or at
14 sea or both places?
15 A Both places.
16 Q How many times did you disconnect the
17 line and scrape off the gasket on The Seaman at
18 drydock?
19 A I couldnt recall exactly how many on
20 that particular pump because we did all pumps.
21 Q Okay. I understand that.
495
1 And how many times at drydock did you
2 disconnect the line on The Navigator?
3 A I couldnt recall how many times.
4 Q How many times at drydock did you
5 disconnect the line on The Engineer?
6 A I couldnt recall how many times.
7 Q And how many times at sea did you
8 disconnect the line on a Westinghouse pump on The
9 Seaman, The Navigator or The Engineer?
10 A When they broke down. So I couldnt
11 recall how many times they would break down.
12 Q Do you recall a Westinghouse pump ever
13 breaking down at sea on The Seaman?
14 A Yes.
15 Q How many times did that occur?
16 A I couldnt give you an estimate how
17 many times. Everything broke down eventually.
18 Q Do you recall a Westinghouse pump
19 breaking down while at sea on The Navigator?
20 A Now, again, like I said, everything
21 broke down eventually, and you would have to repair
496
1 it.
2 Q But my question is on The Seaman, The
3 Navigator and The Engineer, do you recall actually
4 working on a Westinghouse pump while you were at
5 sea?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
7 A Yes. I know I worked on — there were
8 so many pumps. And I know I worked on a
9 Westinghouse pump, yes.
10 Q When you worked on the Westinghouse
11 pumps, I think you said you disconnected them; is
12 that right?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Did you do any other work on the
15 Westinghouse pumps either at drydock or at sea other
16 than disconnecting them?
17 A If it had a shaft on it, then you did
18 the packing.
19 Q Just give me one minute. I think Im
20 done. Just give me one minute.
21 Well, let me ask you this. You have
497
1 talked today about Westinghouse pumps. Other than
2 Westinghouse pumps, do you believe you worked with
3 any other equipment at any time in your career that
4 was manufactured by Westinghouse?
5 MR. TANKARD: You mean other than the
6 turbines he has talked about?
7 Q Well — okay. Well, other than –
8 well, other than any turbines that you worked on and
9 other than any Westinghouse pumps, do you believe
10 you ever at any time in your career worked on any
11 other Westinghouse machinery or equipment?
12 A Yes. I believe we — the evaporators
13 was Westinghouse. There was a couple things that
14 was Westinghouse on those ships.
15 Q Now, so you said you also worked on an
16 evaporator?
17 A Yeah. Evaporator or condensers. I
18 couldnt recall exactly which one was Westinghouse,
19 but there was something — I know I remember
20 Westinghouse on something. I dont — but, see, the
21 trouble is I worked in the shipyard, I worked in –
498
1 and I couldnt pinpoint exactly where.
2 Q Just so Im clear, you are saying that
3 you worked on either a Westinghouse evaporator or a
4 Westinghouse condenser, you just cant recall which
5 it was?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Now, do you recall which ship you
8 worked on either a Westinghouse evaporator or
9 Westinghouse condenser?
10 A I am almost positive it was on The
11 Seaman, The Seaman, The Navigator and Engineer.
12 Q Okay.
13 A I know I remember working on them
14 because they had a big plate right on it, too.
15 Q So just so I am clear, its your
16 testimony that you worked on a Westinghouse
17 evaporator or a Westinghouse condenser on each of
18 The Seaman, The Navigator and The Engineer?
19 A I couldnt give you an exact that that
20 was it, but I know I worked on it. But it might
21 have even been on one of the other ships. But I
499
1 know I worked on them somewhere in there.
2 Q Do you believe that you were in any way
3 exposed to asbestos as a result of working on either
4 this evaporator or a condenser on The Seaman, The
5 Navigator or The Engineer?
6 A Well, yes. Even if I didnt put
7 asbestos on, there was always asbestos vibrating off
8 where you swept it up.
9 Q No. But my question is — well, let me
10 ask it this way. Do you recall putting any asbestos
11 on either an evaporator or condenser that
12 Westinghouse manufactured?
13 A Not those — lines going to any of the
14 condensers or — it could be Westinghouse or whoever
15 made them — that I did. But the evaporator or
16 condenser itself, no.
17 Q Okay. So that I am clear, so the
18 evaporator/condenser itself, that piece of
19 machinery, you did not put any asbestos on that
20 piece of machinery at any time, correct?
21 A No. Just cleaned — in the shipyard,
500
1 if they worked on any of that, we still had to clean
2 up the asbestos which was very dusty.
3 Q Was there asbestos that was actually on
4 the evaporator or the condenser that Westinghouse
5 manufactured?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What was the purpose of the asbestos?
8 A To keep the heat in.
9 Q How many evaporators or condensers were
10 on each of these ships?
11 A It was — most of the ships I believe
12 just carried one on those ships.
13 Q Did you ever see the specifications for
14 the Westinghouse evaporator or condenser?
15 A No.
16 Q Were you present when it was initially
17 installed on the ship?
18 A No.
19 Q Were you present when it was originally
20 delivered to the ship?
21 A No.
501
1 Q Were you present when it was laid into
2 place on the ship?
3 A No.
4 Q Did you ever see any drawings or plans
5 with respect to either this evaporator/condenser
6 that allegedly Westinghouse manufactured?
7 A No.
8 Q Do you know who insulated that
9 evaporator or condenser that Westinghouse
10 manufactured?
11 A No.
12 Q Do you know what the insulation
13 consisted of?
14 A Yes.
15 Q What type of asbestos was it?
16 A That asbestos was — looked like it was
17 troweled on, I guess. Like I said, I didnt work on
18 that. It was — it looked like it was what I call
19 mud. You know, you make it like a concrete, and it
20 was on there. It probably had the wire underneath
21 it and then asbestos all over it, (indicating).
502
1 Q And, again, that was installed, as you
2 understood it anyway, at the time this condenser or
3 evaporator was originally put into the ship; is that
4 right?
5 A That would have been the original, yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I need to stop and
8 change the tape.
9 MR. FORER: Okay.
10 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
11 number 2 of our deposition of Mr. Berglund. The
12 time is 11:58.
13 (Whereupon, recess taken — 11:58 a.m.)
14 (Whereupon, after recess — 12:08 p.m.)
15 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
16 number 3 of our video deposition of George Berglund,
17 Sr. The time is 12:08.
18 BY MR. FORER:
19 Q Sir, I understand you dont know
20 whether you worked on a Westinghouse evaporator or a
21 Westinghouse condenser on –
503
1 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Sir, do you have
2 your microphone on? Thank you.
3 Q Sir, I dont know — I know you dont
4 know whether it was a Westinghouse evaporator or a
5 Westinghouse condenser that you worked on when you
6 were on The Seaman, The Navigator and The Engineer,
7 but whichever piece of equipment it was, where was
8 it located on the ship?
9 A It was located right in the same area
10 as the turbine.
11 Q Can you describe what this piece of
12 equipment looked like on each of the three ships?
13 A Yes. It was pretty big, round, and the
14 function of it was to make the saltwater into
15 freshwater for the boilers.
16 Q So the purpose was to turn saltwater
17 into freshwater which could then be used for the
18 boilers?
19 A Yes, with the steam going into tubes
20 inside of it. Like I said, I myself did not work
21 directly on it.
504
1 Q And that wasnt your responsibility or
2 duty ever to work on this piece of equipment?
3 A To tear it apart. That would be in the
4 shipyard, yes. We worked up to it, but, basically,
5 not on it itself.
6 Q Do you know — well, okay.
7 Do you recall whether this piece of
8 equipment was ever serviced or maintained while you
9 were on any of these ships?
10 A Sometimes, yes, they would take the
11 front off and work on the tubes.
12 Q But, again, thats not work you did?
13 A No.
14 Q And you dont know what the service or
15 maintenance work entailed, do you?
16 A No.
17 Q Was this piece of equipment ever
18 rebuilt while you were working on The Seaman, The
19 Navigator or The Engineer?
20 A I guess that was the purpose in the
21 shipyard. I couldnt recall because I — again, I
505
1 did not work directly on it.
2 Q So just so I am clear, you are saying
3 that this piece of equipment while at drydock was
4 worked on; is that right?
5 A Not all the time, but most of the time,
6 yes.
7 Q And when you say most of the time, does
8 that apply to each of these three ships, The Seaman,
9 The Navigator and The Engineer?
10 A Yes. I guess if they didnt need it
11 done — I had no idea how that — you know, when it
12 would have been done.
13 Q And, again, I dont know what to call
14 it. Was it rebuilding work, was it maintenance
15 work, was it replacement work? What work was being
16 done in the drydock?
17 A I couldnt recall what kind of work.
18 Q You didnt do the work?
19 A I didnt do the work, so I –
20 Q And you dont know what the work
21 involved, do you?
506
1 A No.
2 Q What were you doing while that work was
3 taking place in drydock?
4 A I would be working — we would be doing
5 the same as when the turbine is being worked on.
6 Everything is being worked on at once. We would be
7 doing valves or flanges or whatever and cleaning up
8 the mess that they might have made.
9 Q And I think we said before, there was
10 lines leading to and from this piece of equipment,
11 correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Okay. Lets forget the lines for a
14 moment. Other than this piece of equipment itself,
15 did the working on this piece of equipment create
16 any dust?
17 A When they worked — yes.
18 Q And why did it create dust?
19 A Because they had to take the front of
20 it off to work around — work on it.
21 Q Who took the front off?
507
1 A The shipyard.
2 Q How long did it take to take the front
3 off?
4 A I have no idea. I wasnt watching
5 them.
6 Q Do you know what the job of taking the
7 front off consisted of?
8 A A lot of bolts, I know that. But that
9 would be about it that I know.
10 Q Was there any asbestos on the front?
11 A Not all of it. It was a little area
12 there that didnt have asbestos, and the rest of it
13 did.
14 Q And was this asbestos in any way
15 disturbed when this front was taken off?
16 A Yes.
17 Q How was it disturbed?
18 A It was disturbed because they had to
19 get it — when they did some of the bolts, they had
20 to take some of it off.
21 Q What is the it? They had to take bolts
508
1 off or they had to take asbestos off?
2 A Yeah. There was bolts that didnt have
3 asbestos, and then there was some there — all I
4 know is they took something off of the front because
5 there was asbestos all over the floor.
6 Q Forget what was on the floor for a
7 minute. My question is what did they take off the
8 front that — you said they took off bolts –
9 A Asbestos.
10 Q They took bolts off.
11 A Yes, they took bolts, and there was
12 some asbestos that they took off. Why they took it
13 off, I have no idea.
14 Q Do you know how they took it off?
15 A They — as most of them did, they
16 banged it right off.
17 Q Okay. And how many bolts were on the
18 front?
19 A I have no idea.
20 Q How long did it take to take this front
21 off?
509
1 A I have no idea.
2 Q How many times was the front taken off
3 on a Westinghouse either evaporator or condenser
4 that was on The Seaman?
5 A Very little. Once in a great while. I
6 couldnt recall.
7 Q And is that testimony the same, that it
8 was once in a great while that the front was taken
9 off with respect to The Navigator or Engineer?
10 A Yes. It was usually in the shipyard
11 and once in a while. I didnt even see them do it
12 on that.
13 MR. FORER: Okay. I might have others,
14 but let me give someone else a chance, and I will
15 look through my notes. Okay?
16 EXAMINATION
17 BY MS. DIVITA:
18 Q Good afternoon, sir. My name is
19 Stephanie DiVita. I am an attorney with the law
20 firm of Pehlivanian Braaten & Pascarella. And I am
21 going to have a few questions for you today. Okay?
510
1 A Um-hmm.
2 Q If at any point in time you dont
3 understand my question, please tell me, and Ill be
4 happy to rephrase it. I dont want you to guess.
5 Additionally, if you need to take a
6 break, just interrupt me, and Ill be happy to
7 accommodate you. Okay?
8 A Yes.
9 Q I want to talk to you initially about
10 your time at ARCO. And you were there between
11 around 1957 to 1960?
12 A I believe it was 56.
13 Q And you were not a machinist or a
14 millwright, correct?
15 A No.
16 Q That is correct?
17 A That is correct.
18 Q Now, as an oiler and a wiper — I am
19 going to run down some job titles — withdrawn.
20 As a wiper and an oiler, I am going to
21 ask you whether or not any of these functions were
511
1 some of your responsibilities. And you can tell me
2 yes or no. Okay?
3 Were you ever responsible for checking
4 gauges?
5 A Yes, when I was a fireman.
6 Q Would you also have been responsible
7 for monitoring temperatures?
8 A When I was a fireman.
9 Q Now, when you were an oiler and a
10 wiper, did you also encompass –
11 A Oiler, no, I didnt ever — just the
12 fireman and a wiper.
13 Q Okay. Now, in any of your job titles
14 while you were employed by ARCO, at times, did you
15 have to do gopher-type tasks?
16 A Well, that was my job, yes.
17 Q And what I mean by that is you would
18 have to do cleanup from other trades; is that
19 correct?
20 A That is correct.
21 Q You would have to get items from
512
1 storage at times; is that correct?
2 A That is correct.
3 Q You would have to unload boxes at
4 times; is that correct?
5 A That is correct.
6 Q Would you have to ever unload trucks or
7 other types of supplies?
8 A Not trucks, no. Most of the stuff was
9 in our warehouse.
10 Q Did you ever have to put things back in
11 storage after you were done using it?
12 A Oh, yes.
13 Q Did you have to handle pipe covering?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you have to handle painting-type
16 jobs at times?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did you handle cement-type products?
19 A Cement, not on there, no.
20 Q There was no cement insulation on any
21 of the vessels?
513
1 A Asbestos cement, if thats what you
2 want to call it, yes.
3 Q Okay. Well, I dont want to confuse
4 you. So what do you refer to asbestos cement as?
5 A To bags of asbestos. And then you
6 would mix it up with the water and put that on.
7 Thats what I am considering as the cement.
8 Q So you were mixing bags of asbestos
9 while you were employed by ARCO as well; is that
10 correct?
11 A That is correct.
12 Q Now, even if you werent necessarily
13 working with pipe covering or the bag of asbestos,
14 were others using those products in your
15 environment?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And was that a common occurrence?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And was it necessary for you at times
20 when you were going to perform work on a particular
21 line or piece of equipment for you to break apart
514
1 pipe covering?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Would you ever have to reinstall the
4 pipe covering?
5 A At times.
6 Q And when you were breaking apart the
7 pipe covering, was that a dusty process?
8 A Very, very dusty.
9 Q And would that dust get on your
10 clothes?
11 A All over the clothes and also on your
12 body itself.
13 Q And when you were mixing these bags of
14 cement, was that a dusty process?
15 A Very.
16 Q And when you were mixing the bags of
17 asbestos and it was a dusty process, did that dust
18 get on your clothes?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Now, if you had a set of — withdrawn.
21 Were you given a set of different tasks
515
1 per day while you were employed by ARCO or would you
2 just do one thing?
3 A No, it would be different. You would
4 get done one job and then you would jump to the
5 next.
6 Q So there could be a time when you were
7 changing a flange gasket and mixing cement in the
8 same day, correct?
9 A Oh, yes.
10 Q Now, would you change your clothes or
11 would you keep the same outfit on all day?
12 A You would keep the same. We didnt
13 have no coveralls back then.
14 Q Is there a way for you to estimate for
15 me — and this is a difficult question — the amount
16 of pipe covering that would have been in the boiler
17 room area that you were working in on any of the
18 vessels?
19 A The amount? No. It was as needed.
20 See, you had a lot of vibration, and a lot of times
21 that especially would come off where you didnt have
516
1 to change a pipe or something, you might have to
2 change a cover.
3 Q I understand.
4 And that would have been true for all
5 the different vessels you were on; is that correct?
6 A Oh, yes. Yes. A lot of vibration on
7 there.
8 Q Now, when you were employed by ARCO,
9 where did you sleep if you were aboard ship on a
10 specific sail?
11 A In what they call a foksal, a little
12 tiny 2 by 4, I call it, room. And it would be two
13 of us in there as a rule.
14 Q Was there any piping or anything in
15 that area?
16 A There was piping in there, yes.
17 Q Was that pipe covered with anything?
18 A Yes. It was — most of it was steam
19 pipes going to different things for heat and whatnot
20 for in there.
21 Q And with the vibrations of the ship
517
1 while you were sleeping, did at times dust get on
2 your clothes from the pipe covering?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Was that a common occurrence?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Now, when you were aboard ship, how
7 long would you be at sea for? Would it vary?
8 A Most of the time it was about 14 days.
9 Q Now, during –
10 A As an average I am giving you.
11 Q Okay. And it could be longer, it could
12 be shorter, correct?
13 A It could be either.
14 Q All right. Lets say — lets talk
15 about 14 days. How many change of clothes would you
16 have available to you in that 14-day time period?
17 A Well, you would wear the same clothes
18 for a few days, thats for sure, try to — you
19 wouldnt change every day.
20 Q Were there laundry services available
21 while you were aboard the vessel?
518
1 A There was a washing machine available
2 if you wanted to wash clothes, yes.
3 Q Did you ever wash your clothes while
4 you were aboard a ship and it was out at sea?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Was that a common occurrence?
7 A Well, if you wanted something that was
8 clean, yes.
9 MS. DIVITA: Can you read that back?
10 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
11 BY MS. DIVITA:
12 Q I just want to make sure that the
13 record is clear. Did you wash your clothes on
14 occasion while you were employed by ARCO and aboard
15 a ship at sea?
16 A In the beginning, yes.
17 Q And when you say in the beginning, for
18 what period of time did you actually wash your
19 clothes aboard the vessel?
20 A I guess about the first seven months,
21 and then I tried to bring them home to — well, it
519
1 wasnt home, but to Carol. There was other times
2 when I couldnt, and I did wash them once in a great
3 while, yes.
4 Q So it would vary? You would either
5 wash them, bring them home to Carol, or would there
6 be another place you could bring your clothes?
7 A The only — not to get washed, no.
8 Q Was there a service provided by ARCO
9 for the laundering of your clothes?
10 A No, just a washing machine, like I
11 stated, in there. That was it.
12 Q So on the occasions that you would
13 bring your clothes home to Carol, explain –
14 withdrawn.
15 Explain to me if you did not wash your
16 clothes what you would do when you wanted to change
17 your clothes. Would you put them someplace when you
18 were done using them and — can you explain it to
19 me?
20 A Yes. You would put them right in
21 your — you had one little locker that was right by
520
1 your bed, your bunk you call it. And you could put
2 them in there and put them in the duffle bag, which
3 I did, I put them in the duffle bag that was right
4 alongside the bed.
5 Q So you would mix your clothes all
6 together, and then when you got off the ship, you
7 would take your bag with you, correct?
8 A Correct.
9 Q So you could have been performing
10 various tasks while you were aboard ship, and your
11 clothes could have gotten dirty from a variety of
12 different things, correct?
13 A That is correct.
14 Q And there would be no way of you to
15 tell me today on a particular time you brought your
16 clothes home to Carol a particular job you were
17 doing; is that correct?
18 A Thats correct.
19 Q Lets talk a little bit about the time
20 that you were at drydock when you were employed with
21 ARCO.
521
1 My understanding of when a ship is in
2 drydock, thats because things are being repaired
3 and its not at sea; is that correct?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And you are given a certain amount of
6 tasks to do within your job responsibilities, and
7 other people around you are doing their jobs,
8 correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Were other people around you using pipe
11 covering?
12 A Oh, yes.
13 Q Were other people around you cutting
14 pipe covering?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Were other people around you using
17 cements?
18 A Whatever it — yes. Yes.
19 Q I should say asbestos cement, the bags,
20 correct?
21 A Yeah. When you say cement, it throws
522
1 me off. Yeah.
2 Q Were they mixing that product in your
3 vicinity?
4 A At times, yes.
5 Q Did the process of them mixing that
6 product create dust?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Did that dust get on your clothes?
9 A Oh, yeah.
10 Q Okay. And when they cut the pipe
11 covering, did that create dust?
12 A Yes, because we had to sweep it up.
13 Q And did — and while you were sweeping
14 up the asbestos cement and the asbestos pipe
15 covering, did that dust get on your clothes?
16 A Yes.
17 Q So even though you might have been,
18 lets say, changing the packing on a pump, you also
19 would have been around that other type of work, too;
20 is that correct?
21 A No matter what you were doing, you
523
1 were — it was a dust environment, yes.
2 Q From all different sources, correct?
3 A All different things.
4 Q Now, when you were in drydock, did you
5 sleep at home or did you still sleep aboard a
6 vessel?
7 A When I was in drydock, there was times
8 when I did get the chance to go home for a weekend.
9 Most of the time I am on the vessel.
10 Q So when you were in drydock, did you
11 have the occasion to wash your own clothes?
12 A Drydock, you really couldnt wash
13 because lots of times the water was shut off for –
14 because they might have been working on something on
15 the — where the water supply came from.
16 Q And if you didnt go home and you
17 couldnt wash your clothes, what did you do, just
18 have a couple spare –
19 A You would collect it and, you know,
20 you — well, naturally, you had spare clothes in
21 case you were, you know, on a longer run.
524
1 Q Would you have brought your clothes
2 home on any occasion for Carol to wash while you
3 were drydocked?
4 A Well, I did — yes. Like I said,
5 sometimes I got one weekend or so off, and I would
6 shoot over to her house, yes.
7 Q But that would have been a rare
8 occasion?
9 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
10 A I would bring my clothes — I would
11 bring my clothes home, yes.
12 Q Would that have been the same type of
13 capacity you told me before, they would be in a
14 duffle bag?
15 A Yes. Thats the only way. I didnt
16 have no suitcase, just a duffle bag on all
17 occasions.
18 Q And would there be any way for you to
19 tell me today on a specific occasion you recall
20 bringing your clothes home while you were at drydock
21 exactly what you were doing that day?
525
1 A No. Exactly what I was doing that day
2 50 years ago, no.
3 Q Fair enough, sir. Thank you.
4 I want to talk to you about your time
5 with respect to the work that you did in association
6 with pumps.
7 As you sit here today, can you tell me
8 by particular manufacturer a color that you
9 associate with the pump?
10 MR. BABULA: Objection.
11 A The color?
12 Q Right. Like you named a variety of
13 different manufacturers.
14 A Um-hmm.
15 Q Do you associate a particular color
16 with a particular manufacturer?
17 MR. BABULA: Objection.
18 A I couldnt say what color, no. We
19 didnt have a color code on anything.
20 Q How about a particular size? Is there
21 one manufacturers size pumps that you can recall
526
1 versus another manufacturer?
2 A No.
3 Q How about cold water versus hot water?
4 Do you associate a particular manufacturer with cold
5 water applications versus hot water applications?
6 MR. BABULA: Objection.
7 A No, I couldnt really tell you which.
8 Q How about the way it was affixed,
9 either vertically or horizontally? Can you tell me
10 by manufacturer a particular pump that was laid
11 horizontally versus vertically?
12 MR. BABULA: Objection.
13 A No, because there was so many different
14 ways they were on there. No, I couldnt ever give
15 that answer.
16 Q If you were taking a pump off line,
17 would it be a small pump that you could handle by
18 yourself or would you need assistance?
19 A There is times when we would use a
20 chain fall.
21 Q Can you tell me a particular
527
1 manufacturer of pump that you would have used a
2 chain fall?
3 A No, because when you are working with
4 so many pumps, you dont — there is different type
5 of pump.
6 Q Are you aware of something called a
7 mechanical seal?
8 A A mechanical seal? No, not that I can
9 recall.
10 Q You dont know what that is?
11 A No, that I can recall.
12 Q Would you be able to tell me whether or
13 not any of the pumps that you worked on had
14 mechanical seals?
15 MR. BABULA: Objection.
16 A Not that I can recall.
17 Q Now, earlier, you were asked a series
18 of questions about gaskets. And Im still a little
19 bit confused. Are you talking about a flange gasket
20 or something else?
21 MR. BABULA: Objection.
528
1 A Flange gaskets, yes, on a line, yes.
2 Q Was the material that you would use to
3 change a flange gasket, whether it be on a pump –
4 withdrawn. Whether it be on a pipe or something
5 else, who supplied that gasket material to you?
6 A I had to go get it.
7 Q Was it an ARCO product that was made
8 available to you?
9 A No. No. It came from ARCOs
10 warehouse, but –
11 Q Would you know the service — I dont
12 know if this was asked. And I apologize if it was.
13 Would you know the service history of any pump that
14 you encountered or worked upon?
15 MR. BABULA: Objection.
16 A No.
17 Q So you wouldnt know whether or not it
18 was the first time it was being taken off line or
19 the hundredth, correct?
20 MR. BABULA: Objection.
21 A No, I would not know.
529
1 MS. DIVITA: What is the basis of your
2 objection?
3 MR. BABULA: Because you are talking
4 pumps in general. I asked specific questions.
5 Q Okay. If I asked you specific
6 questions about an Ingersoll-Rand product, would you
7 be able to tell me a particular size?
8 A No.
9 Q Would you be able to tell me a shape?
10 A No.
11 Q Would you be able to associate a color
12 for me?
13 A No.
14 Q Would you be able to tell me any
15 identifying characteristics of an Ingersoll-Rand
16 product?
17 A Outside of the plate, nameplate.
18 Q Where was this plate affixed?
19 A Its all according to what it was that
20 you were working on. And some of it would be on
21 the — most of it would be on the side of it.
530
1 Q You are talking about the side of what
2 piece of equipment?
3 A Whatever it was, yes.
4 Q And when you say whatever it was, what
5 are you associating with the name Ingersoll-Rand?
6 A Some of it was air, in the air
7 compressor end of it.
8 Q Anything else?
9 A Not that I can recall.
10 Q So just so that the record is clear,
11 what you associate with the name Ingersoll-Rand is
12 an air compressor; is that correct?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Then correct me. What do you
15 associate with the name –
16 A Not just an air compressor. There was
17 other things that was — that I cant recall.
18 Q As you sit here today, is the only
19 product you can associate with that name
20 Ingersoll-Rand an air compressor?
21 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
531
1 A No.
2 Q Then can you tell me any other product
3 you associate with that name?
4 A Well, it was pumps they considered –
5 it would be connected for the air, you know, if
6 thats what you were — I didnt understand at first
7 what you were talking about.
8 Q Okay. So an air compressor and pumps;
9 is that correct?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Anything else?
12 A No.
13 Q Would you have — withdrawn.
14 Would you have had any work
15 responsibilities with the air compressor?
16 A Yes. You would still — like anything
17 else, we would have to maintain everything.
18 Q Are you talking about the flange gasket
19 again?
20 A Any gaskets that might have blew on it
21 from the air, anything like that.
532
1 Q Anything else other than a flange
2 gasket?
3 A Whatever maintenance, like I said, to
4 keep it going.
5 Q Do you have any specific recollection
6 of any maintenance you ever performed on an
7 Ingersoll-Rand compressor?
8 A Sometimes they would –
9 Q Let me finish my question.
10 A — tear off the head of it, parts of
11 the compressor.
12 Q Tell me exactly what you mean by you
13 would tear off the parts of a compressor. What are
14 you talking about?
15 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Excuse me. I
16 cant hear you.
17 MS. DIVITA: Oh, sorry. Its because
18 this fell.
19 BY MS. DIVITA:
20 Q Did you hear my question or do you need
21 me to rephrase it or re-ask it, I should say?
533
1 A I cant recall everything that I did on
2 it.
3 Q I just want to make sure that you have
4 the opportunity to tell me everything that you
5 remember today. Okay?
6 Do you remember any specific work that
7 you did on an Ingersoll-Rand air compressor?
8 A Yes. Mostly — mainly with blown
9 gaskets on there if the line is not cut.
10 Q Thats the flange gasket?
11 A Flange gaskets, yes.
12 Q Were you ever present when an
13 Ingersoll-Rand air compressor was installed?
14 A No.
15 Q Would you know the particular service
16 history of a flange gasket that you were changing?
17 A No.
18 Q Were you getting the gasket from ARCO?
19 A Again, from my, you know, work area
20 that we had, our storeroom.
21 Q Was this a preformed gasket?
534
1 A Yes, most of the time it was.
2 Sometimes we had to cut one out.
3 Q Are you aware of whether or not a
4 rubber gasket could be used on a flange of a
5 compressor?
6 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
7 A I never encountered it.
8 Q Are you aware that a
9 non-asbestos-containing gasket could be used on an
10 air compressor flange?
11 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
12 A I cant recall about a non-asbestos.
13 Q Can you tell me a specific ship or
14 vessel that this air compressor was on?
15 A I believe it was on those sister ships,
16 the sister ships, I believe.
17 Q Do you know with certainty –
18 A I cant recall exactly on –
19 Ingersoll-Rand, I cant what particular ship it was
20 on. I just remember being around it.
21 Q So it could have been a different
535
1 manufacturer of compressor? You cant tell me where
2 you recall an IR compressor; is that correct?
3 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
4 Thats not at all what he said.
5 A No. All I know is it was on the ships.
6 Q Okay. Can you tell me the size of that
7 compressor?
8 A No.
9 Q Can you tell me the shape of it?
10 A It was pretty big. And there was other
11 small — there was a lot of different things. You
12 know, they have got small compressors and you had
13 big ones.
14 Q Well, I am just concerned about the
15 Ingersoll-Rand compressor. Can you tell me the size
16 of it?
17 A Not offhand the size, no.
18 Q Can you tell me whether or not it was
19 portable or if it was stationary?
20 A Everything was stationary.
21 Q Was that compressor housed in a
536
1 separate room?
2 A It would be right there in the area of
3 your turbines.
4 Q The compressor was not insulated; is
5 that correct?
6 A That is correct.
7 Q Do you recall ever seeing any
8 specifications, written specifications for an
9 Ingersoll-Rand compressor?
10 A There was specifications, but I cant
11 recall.
12 Q You dont have any of those
13 specifications today, correct?
14 A No.
15 Q Do you recall ever seeing any written
16 specifications for an Ingersoll-Rand pump?
17 A I know they had them, but I couldnt
18 recall exactly what — just on the plates.
19 Q And if I asked you this, I apologize.
20 You cant associate a particular type of pump with a
21 particular manufacturer; is that correct?
537
1 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
2 A That is correct.
3 Q Do you know whether or not the
4 Ingersoll-Rand pump was electric?
5 A No. I cant recall, no.
6 Q I want to switch gears completely now
7 and talk to you about your time working at the
8 shipyard on the Kitty Hawk.
9 A Yes.
10 Q You were a pipe coverer; is that
11 correct?
12 A That is correct.
13 Q Now, while employed with the shipyard,
14 did you sleep at home or someplace else?
15 A In the shipyard, I slept at home. That
16 was in Woodstown, New Jersey.
17 Q I believe this was already covered, so
18 I am going to go through it quite quickly. You were
19 responsible for cutting asbestos pipe covering; is
20 that correct?
21 A That is correct.
538
1 Q You were responsible for mixing
2 asbestos bags of cement; is that correct?
3 A That is correct.
4 Q The process of cutting pipe covering
5 and asbestos cement, did that create dust?
6 A All over, yes.
7 Q Did that dust get on your clothes?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did you bring those clothes home each
10 evening to your — to Carol?
11 A Yes, I did.
12 Q And did Carol wash the clothes and
13 provide you with a new set the next day or did you
14 have several different outfits to change into?
15 A No. We would usually do that on –
16 there when the ship — when I worked at New York
17 Ship on Saturday.
18 Q I dont understand. Can you explain it
19 to me? I dont understand what your answer is.
20 A Well, when she would — in other words,
21 you would put it in a hamper, and then I would take
539
1 it out of the hamper and put it in a clothes basket
2 and take it down, and she would wash them on a
3 Saturday.
4 Q So tell me, when you would get home
5 from the shipyard doing your pipe covering work –
6 let me ask you this first. Were other pipe coverers
7 working in your vicinity?
8 A Oh, yes.
9 Q You werent the sole pipe coverer on
10 the Kitty Hawk?
11 A No, because I was right there with
12 them. I had to hand them lots of times the
13 material, and it was coming all over us when he was
14 working with it.
15 Q So dust was getting on your clothes
16 from the work of the other pipe coverers as well,
17 correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, explain to me when you got home
20 what you would do with your clothing.
21 A I would take it off and put it in a
540
1 hamper.
2 Q After the — where was the hamper
3 located?
4 A In our bedroom.
5 Q Was it your custom and practice to walk
6 in the door and change your clothes immediately or
7 something else?
8 A No, no, not there. I didnt change
9 right away. It was an old farmhouse, and I didnt
10 really need to, I guess.
11 Q But at some point, you would put your
12 clothes in this hamper, correct?
13 A That is correct. And I would leave
14 the — like sometimes the jacket — my car would be
15 dusty also from the — because I would leave my
16 jacket in the car lots of times. We werent
17 supplied any coveralls there either.
18 Q So when you were doing your pipe
19 covering work, the dust was also getting in your
20 car; is that correct?
21 A Oh, yes.
541
1 Q Was Carol in the car?
2 A Oh, yeah, certainly, all the time.
3 Q Now, you said on Saturdays, she would
4 launder the clothes; is that correct?
5 A That is correct.
6 Q Did anyone assist her with that task?
7 A Well, I would carry them down and then
8 take them down to her where the — you know, so she
9 didnt have to carry them.
10 Q So you would carry your clothes down to
11 the laundry room or –
12 A Well, into the shed, yeah, where there
13 was a washer and dryer.
14 Q And then once you brought her the
15 clothes into the shed, what would happen next?
16 A Well, she would take them out and wash
17 them, and it would be a dusty area there because
18 they would still have the white on them from the
19 asbestos.
20 Q And you had a dryer in the shed; is
21 that correct?
542
1 A Yes.
2 MS. DIVITA: I think those are all the
3 questions I have. Thank you, sir.
4 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
5 12:41.
6 (Whereupon, discussion held off the
7 record.)
8 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
9 at 12:43.
10 EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. KOOI:
12 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Berglund.
13 A Good afternoon.
14 Q My name is Ryan Kooi. Im with the law
15 firm of Margolis Edelstein. I represent John Crane.
16 The other day and I believe earlier
17 today, you identified John Crane as a manufacturer
18 of packing that you used while you were at American
19 Refining?
20 A Atlantic Refining.
21 Q Atlantic. Im sorry.
543
1 A Yes. And gaskets, yes.
2 Q And gaskets, too.
3 Okay. I want to first ask you about
4 the packing, and then I will turn to the gaskets.
5 Firstly, in your mind, do you
6 distinguish between gaskets and packing?
7 A Yes, but the Crane packing — we didnt
8 use as much of John Crane. Mostly it was gaskets.
9 Q Okay. Can you describe the packing you
10 attribute to John Crane?
11 A What I can recall, it was just like the
12 other packing.
13 In other words, it was — it came in
14 the box on a reel. And there was some, now, if it
15 was small — I did remember some of it was in a
16 container — like loose and wrapped up back then.
17 Q And when you say loose –
18 A Yes.
19 Q — was it coiled up?
20 A Thats what I mean –
21 Q Just not wrapped around anything?
544
1 A — it was coiled up and wrapped real
2 tight, in other words, in like a cellophane thing.
3 That was the small stuff, some of the small stuff, I
4 believe.
5 Q So if I understand you correctly, its
6 not on a reel, its just coiled up?
7 A Well, some of it was, yes, if I
8 remember. I am trying to remember exactly. I just
9 remember seeing — I remember some of the names.
10 Q What was that product wrapped in?
11 A In like a cellophane, and there was
12 some on reels, the bigger packing.
13 Q Okay.
14 A But, like I said, I believe we used
15 more — I believe I used more of the gaskets than
16 the packing of John Crane.
17 Q I will talk about the gaskets in a
18 little bit. Right now I just want to focus on the
19 packing, and then we will move to the gaskets. I
20 will give you ample opportunity to provide
21 information about the gaskets.
545
1 Now, regarding the loose packing in the
2 cellophane, how was that stored on ship?
3 A In our storeroom.
4 Q Okay. Was that –
5 A That would have been right in the box,
6 yes.
7 Q And do you specifically recall the
8 manufacturer of that product?
9 A It was on the box, not on the side of
10 the packing on that. It was right on the box.
11 Q Okay. And do you know the identity of
12 the manufacturer?
13 A That identity on that box was John –
14 if I remember, John Crane. Thats why I just happen
15 to remember John Crane.
16 Q Okay. Did the box have any other
17 writing on it?
18 A Im sure it did, but I cant remember
19 everything that was written on it. It had a patent
20 number and whatever else on it.
21 Q Can you estimate for me the diameter of
546
1 that packing?
2 A No, I couldnt recall.
3 Q What color –
4 A It was all different diameter — the
5 diameter would — in other words, it was some small,
6 you know, in diameter, and there was some big.
7 Q Okay. Right now I just want to focus
8 on the loose packing that you described with the
9 cellophane wrap. Do you know the diameter of that
10 one?
11 A No. That was, I think, small stuff.
12 Q Do you know how often you used that
13 very small packing?
14 A That I couldnt give you an answer, no.
15 Q And what color was it?
16 A Black.
17 Q And when you handled it, did it leave a
18 sort of residue on your hand, on your fingers or
19 hands?
20 A What I can recall, if you cut it, yes.
21 Yes, when you cut it, yes.
547
1 Q Okay. But, say, if you would just take
2 some out of the box and let go of it, there wasnt
3 like –
4 A The metallic, yes. It has like some of
5 that, like a metallic, like a finish on it.
6 Q And did that metallic finish, you know,
7 leave a bit of a residue on your hands when you
8 would touch it?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Was that also black?
11 A No.
12 Q What color was it?
13 A That was like a silvery looking, if I
14 remember.
15 Q What particular application did you use
16 this loose packing for?
17 A For stems of valves and some shafts on
18 pumps.
19 Q Was it rated for any particular
20 pressure grade or temperature rating?
21 A Some packing was for high temp, yes.
548
1 Q Okay. Im speaking specifically about
2 this loose packing.
3 A That I cant recall.
4 Q Do you know how — do you know the
5 length of the loose packing that was coiled in the
6 cellophane?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Was it a single coil per box?
9 A No. It was — it might have been — in
10 the small stuff, it might have been a dozen of them.
11 I cant recall how many.
12 Q Do you believe the loose packing
13 packaged in cellophane contained asbestos?
14 A Yes, I do.
15 Q Why do you believe that?
16 A Because we didnt put anything else on
17 the steam pipe — I mean on the valves.
18 Q And do you know the reasoning behind
19 using only asbestos product?
20 A Only asbestos? No, we didnt — no,
21 there was other, naturally, for lines. There was
549
1 water lines, but we didnt have much problems with
2 them like the steam.
3 Q Okay. Perhaps I was a little confused.
4 Do you know why the — withdrawn.
5 Can you quantify for me the amount of
6 time you used this specific loose packing wrapped in
7 a cellophane?
8 A No.
9 Q And do you recall cutting this loose
10 packing?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Do you know what ships you used
13 it on?
14 A It would have been used on all these
15 ships thats mentioned. It was all the same
16 products came out of the warehouse for each one of
17 the ships.
18 Q Was this packing — did it look like it
19 was braided kind of like a rope?
20 A Not that I can recall, braided.
21 Q Was it –
550
1 A I cant recall that, no.
2 Q Okay. Did it look like one solid piece
3 that was just coiled up?
4 A Most of the packing I ever used, yes,
5 it was in — in other words, it was all one solid,
6 yes.
7 Q Do you associate any logos or
8 identifying marks with this loose packing in the
9 cellophane?
10 A Outside of the name, no.
11 Q Okay. Do you know if you used this
12 loose packing outside of Atlantic Refining?
13 A No. I never had no reason to use it.
14 Q Do you recall using any other packing
15 that you know was manufactured by John Crane at
16 Atlantic Refining?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 A Garlock was the other one we used.
20 Q Okay. Right now I just want to focus
21 on the John Crane products.
551
1 Did the other John Crane packing
2 products differ in appearance from the loose product
3 you just described?
4 A No. Basically, it was — they were all
5 the same, as far as I can recall.
6 Q And do you recall the diameters of the
7 John Crane packing that you used other than what you
8 have already testified to?
9 A No. What I can recall, most of it was
10 the small packing. So I really couldnt recall
11 that, no.
12 Q Was the John Crane packing reserved for
13 any particular application?
14 A Not that I — oh, yeah, there was
15 steam. Most of it was for the steam pipes that I
16 can recall.
17 Q And was this packing all black in
18 color?
19 A Yes. There was some packing that was a
20 little gray in color also.
21 Q Okay. Do you associate that with John
552
1 Crane?
2 A I cant recall which one it was with
3 that. I cant recall. But I remember seeing the
4 grayish.
5 Q Do you remember if any of the John
6 Crane packing was braided?
7 A I cant recall about the braided part.
8 Q Did any of the John Crane packing come
9 in, say, precut rings or lengths?
10 A Not that I can recall.
11 Q Now, other than the loose packing you
12 described previously, how was this other John Crane
13 packing packaged?
14 A If I remember, it was some on the
15 reels.
16 Q Was that stored with — on the pipes
17 with all the other reels?
18 A Yes. We would put whatever we had on
19 hand at the time, yes.
20 Q Do you recall any markings or logos on
21 the reels?
553
1 A Outside their logo, no.
2 Q And do you know what the John Crane
3 logo looks like?
4 A I dont remember the name. There was
5 other writing there that I couldnt recall.
6 Q Okay. Do you know if any of the John
7 Crane packing contained wires or foil?
8 A I cant recall.
9 Q When you cut the John Crane packing,
10 did you — what kind of tool did you use?
11 A I used a knife.
12 Q Is that like a –
13 A Like a regular –
14 Q Like a razor knife?
15 A No. We didnt have them back then. I
16 just used a regular, like a pen knife, and then
17 sometimes we had snips that you could use.
18 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I need to stop to
19 change tape. This ends tape number 3 of our
20 deposition. The time is 12:59.
21 (Whereupon, recess taken — 12:59 p.m.)
554
1 (Whereupon, after recess — 1:09 p.m.)
2 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
3 number 4 of our video deposition of George Berglund,
4 Sr. The time is 1:09.
5 BY MR. KOOI:
6 Q Good afternoon again. Back from a
7 short break. I want to continue with my questions
8 to you about the packing materials.
9 Did you ever use any non-asbestos
10 packing while at Atlantic Refinery?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What applications did you use that for?
13 A Water lines.
14 Q Do you know if John Crane manufactured
15 any of that non-asbestos packing?
16 A It was packing — what I can recall,
17 yes.
18 Q And can you tell me what that packing
19 looked like?
20 A Well, some of the packing would be –
21 that would probably be in the white, what I was
555
1 trying to say before, the white more, some of the
2 white packing. Its more softer than the other
3 packing, not as stiff. And some of it was just
4 washers, you know, but they werent — I dont know
5 who manufactured those. I couldnt really tell you.
6 Q Now I would like to turn to the
7 gaskets.
8 Did you work with preformed gaskets
9 manufactured by John Crane?
10 A Yes, I did.
11 Q Did you work with any sheet materials
12 manufactured by John Crane?
13 A The sheet material, I couldnt recall
14 which one made that, but it would be in the roll.
15 But I couldnt say that I actually — it was John
16 Crane, no.
17 Q First I would like to talk about the
18 preformed gaskets from John Crane.
19 Do you know the smallest size gasket
20 you associate with John Crane?
21 A No.
556
1 Q Okay. How about the largest?
2 A No.
3 Q Can you recall what any of these John
4 Crane gaskets looked like?
5 A Yes. They were just — the precut was
6 the size, the dimension of the line you were working
7 on, and it would have the holes already in.
8 Q Were these all flange gaskets?
9 A What I can recall, it was all flange,
10 yes.
11 Q So they were round?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. What color were these gaskets?
14 A Black.
15 Q Were they all black?
16 A No. There was some that was a
17 different color. I mean, there was some gaskets was
18 lighter color. And that I couldnt distinguish from
19 John Crane or the other. I dont recall because I
20 hardly ever used them that much.
21 Q Okay. So the only ones that you can
557
1 recall from John Crane are black then?
2 A The black, yes.
3 Q Okay. When you handled these gaskets,
4 the black gaskets from John Crane –
5 A When I say black, like a dark. There
6 was some that was a dark gray.
7 Q Okay. Black or dark gray then?
8 A Gray, yes. There was a dark gray. I
9 am colorblind anyway.
10 Q Did you ever receive an official
11 diagnosis of colorblindness?
12 A I used to have a little problem with
13 it.
14 Q Okay. When you handled the gaskets
15 from John Crane, did they leave a residue on your
16 hands?
17 A Not that I can recall. I cant recall
18 outside of — some of them, again, had that — there
19 was gaskets had the metallic stuff on them. There
20 was something that came off it. I cant recall what
21 it was.
558
1 Q So if I understand your testimony
2 correctly, some of them had the metallic –
3 A Some of them had something there that
4 would come off, yes, on your fingers, yes.
5 Q Let me just remind you to let me finish
6 my question so the record is clear before you begin
7 giving your answer. Okay? I know they are
8 repetitive and you know what I am going to ask you,
9 but its just for the clarity of the record.
10 Do you recall how these gaskets were
11 packaged?
12 A Again, some in boxes that we brought on
13 the ship.
14 Q Right.
15 A And then take them out of the box and
16 put them up on pegs the size that they needed.
17 Q Now, when you — after you took them
18 out of the box and put them on pegs, was it
19 organized by size?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Were different manufacturers
559
1 intermingled with the different sizes?
2 A At times, yes.
3 Q Are you able to tell or were you able
4 to tell a John Crane gasket from any other type of
5 gasket?
6 A Outside of bringing them on on the box
7 and put them up there, no, because they didnt have
8 anything on the gasket itself that I can recall.
9 Q Okay. So there were no markings, logos
10 or writing on the gaskets itself?
11 A That I cant recall. There was some –
12 not at all that I can recall.
13 Q Okay. Can you quantify for me the
14 amount of time you used John Crane gaskets as
15 opposed to any other manufacturers gaskets?
16 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
17 A No.
18 Q Okay. Did any of these John Crane
19 gaskets have a foil covering?
20 A I cant recall. I cant recall a
21 foil — when you say foil covering, I cant recall
560
1 that.
2 Q Did any have metal wires or strips in
3 them?
4 A I cant recall.
5 Q Do you know if the John Crane gaskets
6 had a particular temperature rating?
7 A No, there was nothing to indicate a
8 certain temperature rating that I can recall. There
9 might have been on the box, and that might have been
10 the other writing, but not on the gasket itself that
11 I can recall.
12 Q Okay. How about a pressure rating, do
13 you recall any of that?
14 A Not that I can recall.
15 Q Now, I dont believe I asked you this
16 about the gaskets. What application would you use
17 the John Crane gaskets for?
18 A Steam lines.
19 Q Do you know if you ever removed a John
20 Crane gasket?
21 A You dont know — when you remove a
561
1 gasket, you dont know what the manufacturer was on
2 that line, just what you are putting in.
3 Q And I dont recall if I asked you this.
4 If I did, I apologize. Do you remember the sizes of
5 the John Crane gaskets?
6 A They were all sizes. There was quite a
7 few sizes of all gaskets.
8 Q Okay.
9 A And I couldnt recall any particular
10 size.
11 Q Do you recall the diameter of the
12 largest steam line you worked on at Atlantic
13 Refinery?
14 A Off the top of my head, no. I
15 couldnt — the largest, no.
16 Q I didnt mean to interrupt you there.
17 I apologize.
18 Do you recall the smallest steam line
19 you worked on?
20 A No.
21 Q Do you know the temperature of the
562
1 steam that was going through these lines?
2 A According to where it was going. Some
3 of it I believe was 9 — the temperature of 900
4 degrees, I believe, some of it. I really couldnt
5 remember that back then.
6 Q Do you remember which ships you used
7 the John Crane gaskets on?
8 A Well, they all came out of the
9 warehouse, so whatever ships. It would be all the
10 fleet.
11 Q Okay. And which positions in your
12 employment did you use them?
13 A In what position? As a wiper.
14 Q Now, I want to ask you some about the
15 sheet gasket materials that you used.
16 If I remember correctly, you said you
17 could not recall the specific manufacturer.
18 A Yes. The only one I can recall was
19 Garlock on the side, but I cant say that John
20 Crane — I know it probably was there. If your
21 product was there, I worked on it, but I cant be
563
1 honest with you and say that I had it.
2 MS. WILDSTEIN: Can I just have that
3 answer read back, please.
4 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
5 BY MR. KOOI:
6 Q Did you ever work with any non-asbestos
7 gaskets on the ships?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Do you know if any of those were
10 manufactured by John Crane?
11 A The paper ones, I dont know who
12 manufactured it. I forget who manufactured those.
13 I think, if I remember right, they were — there was
14 John Crane there, yes.
15 Q Do you know what they were made of?
16 A What they were made of?
17 Q Yes.
18 A By the looks of them, they were like a
19 paper product, most of them.
20 Q Okay. I am a little bit confused by
21 your last two answers.
564
1 A Okay. Well, we are talking about on
2 just a regular water line, you might have had it.
3 And there was the rubber washers we used, naturally,
4 on the water valves. But I didnt know who
5 manufactured the washers.
6 Q Now, is there — there was a paper
7 gasket?
8 A Some things had paper. There was paper
9 gaskets — I hardly ever used them. Thats why I
10 dont –
11 Q Okay.
12 A — recall anything much about them.
13 Q Was there another type of gasket that
14 had paper in it?
15 A It was just like a paper, what I
16 remember. Like I said, I never used them that much,
17 so I cant recall.
18 Q Okay. Did you ever work with a rubber
19 gasket manufactured by John Crane?
20 A I hardly ever — again, I hardly ever
21 used rubber gaskets. I mean, they were there, but I
565
1 never took notice on them because we hardly ever
2 pulled them on the ship. In other words, they might
3 have been on the ship when you get on it.
4 Q Okay. How about a neoprene gasket
5 manufactured by John Crane?
6 A Neoprene? No.
7 Q A graphite gasket manufactured by John
8 Crane?
9 A The graphite I believe was on some of
10 those — what I was talking about that flaked off on
11 your fingers on some of the gaskets.
12 Q Are you referring to that –
13 A That metallic.
14 Q Metallic?
15 A Whatever it was, yes. There was some
16 of those had it.
17 Q Do you believe that the John Crane
18 gaskets contained asbestos?
19 A The ones we used on the steam, yes.
20 Q Why do you believe that?
21 A Because in order to put a good seal, it
566
1 had to be an asbestos gasket so it wouldnt burn.
2 Q Did they have a particular –
3 A And — I didnt finish. And they also
4 had asbestos on the side of that box, too. It did
5 say asbestos on it.
6 Q And you recall that specifically from a
7 John Crane box?
8 A Yeah. There was some of it, like you
9 were saying before, high temp and — some were.
10 Q Were there any graphical logos on the
11 boxes?
12 A Logos, I cant recall, other than the
13 names, you know. That would be it.
14 Q And the name was on the box?
15 A There was a name on the box, yes.
16 Q Was it just like a cardboard box?
17 A You are carrying it. Yes. You are
18 carrying the box, and you could see it. It was on
19 the box, yeah.
20 Q Do you recall how many gaskets came in
21 a John Crane box?
567
1 A That I cant recall. I just remember
2 taking them out and putting them up on the pegs.
3 Q When you installed a John Crane gasket,
4 can you tell me how long the installation process
5 alone took?
6 A It was according to the size of the
7 pipe and how long it took to clean the other pipe –
8 I mean the flange, rather.
9 Q Okay. Say that you are finished
10 cleaning the flange, all you have left to do is put
11 in the gasket and then bolt the flange together; am
12 I correct?
13 A That is correct.
14 Q And how long would that take?
15 A Its all according to what the location
16 was. If you are working up above in tight quarters,
17 it would take longer than others. I couldnt give
18 you an exact.
19 Q Okay. Was the installation process –
20 aside from removing the old gasket, once thats
21 done, was the installation process a dusty process?
568
1 A It was dusty — not for the gasket. A
2 gasket is a new gasket. That wasnt dusty.
3 MS. WILDSTEIN: Could you just read
4 back the answer?
5 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
6 BY MR. KOOI:
7 Q Do you recall the source of the dust?
8 A Yes, from the old gasket. And the dust
9 is — the engine room was constantly dust with –
10 from all the lines. And lots of times you had to
11 break a piece of asbestos off around that flange, so
12 that was still in the air.
13 Q Okay. I just want to quickly go back
14 to the packing. When you were installing the
15 packing after old packing had been removed, was that
16 process dusty?
17 A The packing itself when you cut it –
18 well, you are going to have some fibers, naturally,
19 airborne.
20 Q Is there any other ways that dust came
21 from the packing on installation?
569
1 A From the old packing, a lot of dust
2 when — because you were blowing it out.
3 Q But not from the new?
4 A The new, some fibers, yes, it would
5 get — because you have — sometimes you had a
6 piece, and you had to cut it there on the job, and
7 it would be above you.
8 MR. KOOI: You know, I need to look
9 over my notes, but I think thats all I have for you
10 today. I appreciate your patience.
11 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
12 1:30.
13 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
14 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the
15 record. Our time is 1:31.
16 EXAMINATION
17 BY MS. KARLOVICH:
18 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Berglund. Am I
19 pronouncing your name correctly?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Great.
570
1 My name is Susan Karlovich.
2 The vessels on which you worked while
3 with Atlantic, were they involved in international
4 trade?
5 A When you say international, what do you
6 mean? I dont understand what you mean. You would
7 have to explain.
8 Q Sure.
9 In the certificates of discharge from
10 the United States Coast Guard that was given to us
11 this morning, there is a section that says nature of
12 voyage. And sometimes it says coast wise, and on
13 other trips, its noted as foreign.
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Can you tell me, where did you
16 go to pick up oil on the ships when you were working
17 for ARCO?
18 A Port Arthur, Texas, Harbors Island.
19 Q Where is that?
20 A Aransas Pass, Texas.
21 Q Thats in Texas as well?
571
1 A Um-hmm.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And Venezuela, Lake Maracaibo.
4 Q Lake what?
5 A Lake Maracaibo, Porta La Cruz.
6 Q Where is Lake Maracaibo?
7 A Venezuela. That was the main spot was
8 Venezuela.
9 Q Okay. And what was the next one?
10 A Porta La Cruz.
11 Q Where was that, sir?
12 A Venezuela.
13 Q And how long would it — withdrawn.
14 Was the furthest that you would travel
15 to pick up oil Venezuela?
16 A Yes. I would, yes.
17 Q Okay. Approximately how far away is
18 that from Philadelphia port?
19 A Hour wise on — I mean day wise on the
20 ship, it was basically only around 14 days round
21 trip, 15 days, somewhere in there, 16. I couldnt
572
1 give you exact. Its according to weather.
2 Q Okay. And would you spend any time at
3 the port in Venezuela?
4 A Well, you didnt walk around Venezuela
5 too much, so you didnt spend too much time in port
6 in Venezuela.
7 Q How many hours or days was the ship
8 ported in Venezuela?
9 A The same amount of hours. Loading the
10 ship was about basically — it actually was less.
11 You would be there about maybe 12 hours.
12 Q I see.
13 So it took about 12 hours to load up
14 the ship?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Did you go to any other places
17 in Central or South America?
18 A There might have been a few, but –
19 wherever Atlantic had the oil, you know, had an
20 oilfield.
21 Q Okay. Now, I reviewed some of the
573
1 certificates of discharge. And it has on each one
2 of them a date of shipment and then also the date of
3 discharge. Is the date of shipment the day that you
4 set sail?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. From your port? And usually
7 that was Phili, correct?
8 A Correct.
9 Q And the date of discharge would be when
10 you came back after picking up the oil?
11 A Correct.
12 Q Okay. I note that in some cases, the
13 trips were significantly longer than 14 days. Is
14 that true, on occasion?
15 A Is that for the shipyard? Some of them
16 might have been the shipyard.
17 Q Okay. Well, one trip I noticed on The
18 Engineer in April of 1958 was for 43 days, if — you
19 departed on April 15th, 1958 and came back May 28th,
20 1958. Thats almost six weeks, sir.
21 A That was the shipyard then.
574
1 Q Okay.
2 A That would have been a shipyard.
3 Q So on occasion, you do leave for more
4 than 14 days?
5 A Well, we would be in the shipyard. The
6 shipyards would be basically in Virginia and
7 Baltimore back then.
8 Q Okay. So you are saying it was — in
9 the shipyard, it was drydocked for a portion of that
10 time?
11 A Yes. Yes.
12 Q Okay. So Im a little confused. So
13 you would have a certificate of discharge stating
14 that you left port on a certain day, and then you
15 wouldnt come back — then you would go to Virginia
16 and have the ship repaired at drydock –
17 A Um-hmm.
18 Q — and then return?
19 A Yes. Everything was under the Coast
20 Guard. You needed one of those no matter what you
21 did.
575
1 Q And during that time, you would stay in
2 Virginia for the entire time?
3 A You would stay on the ship, yes.
4 Q Okay. So during that — the — that,
5 like, six-week period, for instance, you would not
6 be in Philadelphia, correct?
7 A No. Only if I had off, if they gave me
8 off, and then we could go back home, yes.
9 Q Okay. So Carol would not be doing your
10 laundry during those discrete periods of time,
11 correct?
12 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
13 A She would be doing it when I would
14 bring it home.
15 Q Even when you –
16 A And like I said, I would be — they
17 would — you would get a weekend — maybe a couple
18 weekends out of that, you could shoot home, yes.
19 Q So for that six-week period in May of
20 1958, you are saying that you came home during those
21 weeks?
576
1 A I could have came home in the week. I
2 dont know which particular one that was. Yes.
3 Q Do you have a specific recollection of
4 coming home?
5 A From the shipyard, yes, on occasion
6 because you couldnt wash your clothes most of the
7 time in the shipyard because of water supply.
8 Q Okay. And you lived on –
9 A You are in drydock.
10 Q And you lived for six weeks in
11 Virginia, correct, but you came home on the weekend?
12 A Lots of times I would come home once in
13 a while on the weekend if I am lucky to get a — you
14 know, a weekend off, yes.
15 Q Okay.
16 A We would be in Baltimore, too, a lot,
17 Key Highway and Bethlehem Steel, and we would be
18 there also.
19 Q Right.
20 I notice that some of the shipments
21 state — the place of shipment is listed as Newport
577
1 News, Virginia. Is that where some of them were
2 drydocked?
3 A That is — yes, that is correct.
4 Q And New York City, how about that?
5 A New York City, no. That was just a
6 place where we — they unloaded there, New York.
7 Q Okay. And when you would discharge in
8 New York City, would Carol do your laundry then?
9 A That might have been one of the
10 times — I said before, as I stated, that there was
11 times when I did do my laundry, yes.
12 Q Okay. So some of the time you would do
13 your own laundry?
14 A That would be — yes, that would be
15 probably one of the times.
16 Q How about Port Reading, New Jersey?
17 A It might have been one of the times out
18 of all of them, yes.
19 Q That you would do your laundry
20 yourself?
21 A Port Reading, lots of times I would
578
1 come home. But we only went there maybe once out of
2 all them years I was there.
3 Q How about Perth Amboy?
4 A That would be another one we probably
5 only went once out of all the years.
6 Q And you did your own laundry then as
7 well, correct?
8 A No. I might have brought some of that
9 home. There is a possibility I did it there. But I
10 didnt stay on the ship there.
11 In other words, I might have got off
12 there, headed back, and I wouldnt have went back on
13 that ship.
14 In other words, the next ship I get
15 would have been in Fort Mifflin which was in
16 Philadelphia.
17 Q Okay.
18 A So I wouldnt come back to that ship.
19 In other words, I was discharged off of
20 there, off of that ship.
21 Q Mr. Berglund, when you were discharged
579
1 for a period of 18 hours, I understand that you
2 wanted to spend as much time as you could with
3 Carol, but where were you living?
4 A Where was I living? Actually, the ship
5 was my quarters, but I would stay at her place. I
6 could sleep on the couch there.
7 Q With her parents there?
8 A On the couch, yes.
9 Q Her parents were okay with that?
10 A Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes.
11 Q Even when she was 13?
12 A Yes.
13 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
14 Q Okay. And did you — you didnt have
15 an apartment or a room of any kind that you could go
16 to?
17 A No.
18 Q Where did you stay before you met
19 Carol?
20 A Outside the ship. Home base was
21 Woodstown, New Jersey.
580
1 Q There was a place for you in Woodstown,
2 New Jersey?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Did you own or rent a place there?
5 A Parents.
6 Q Your parents lived there?
7 A Um-hmm.
8 Q I see.
9 So when you moved to the farm, you
10 moved in with your parents?
11 A Yes. Correct.
12 Q I see.
13 And during this time, approximately –
14 did you wear a uniform?
15 A They never issued us no uniforms, no.
16 Q Okay. What did you wear? Did you buy
17 your own clothes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. What was it, just a pair of
20 pants and a shirt?
21 A Just jeans most of the time and a
581
1 shirt.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And sometimes no shirt.
4 Q And how many pairs of pants did you
5 wear or keep on board with you?
6 A You would try to wear it as long as you
7 could, except if you went to — you know, up to eat
8 at the mess hall. You would take them and you would
9 wear them the next day. You might have had a pair
10 of pants — in other words, you changed to go to the
11 mess hall.
12 Q So you would change before you ate?
13 A Yes. But the same pants I would put
14 back on the next day, the work pants.
15 Q Okay. Did you sleep in your clothes?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. You had other clothes that you
18 slept in?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. But you just put the old dirty
21 ones on again when you went to go do another dirty
582
1 job?
2 A Yes. Yes. No. Every day was a dirty
3 job.
4 Q Right.
5 Okay. So you didnt have, like, seven
6 pairs of pants or 14 pairs of pants or 14 changes of
7 clothes for a 14-day trip; is that correct?
8 A I might have had extra clothes in case
9 something came up, but the majority of the times,
10 no. You could only — they only gave you a little
11 tiny locker. You could only put so much stuff in
12 there.
13 Q How big was the locker?
14 A Picture an average little locker, like
15 that, (indicating).
16 Q Okay. Like about a foot square, a
17 cube?
18 A Yeah, and that was it. And you were
19 sleeping right next to it.
20 Q Okay.
21 A Your room — your room was as big as
583
1 these two tables half the time it seemed like. I
2 mean, it was very small.
3 Q Okay. So you couldnt fit that many
4 pairs of pants and changes of clothes in your duffle
5 bag in the locker, correct?
6 A You could put clothes in there, but I
7 couldnt recall how many pair of pants I had.
8 Q Okay. All right. And you worked in
9 the engine room, right?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And you said that that was sometimes –
12 the average temperature was about 110 degrees
13 Fahrenheit?
14 A Yes. It was over a hundred most of the
15 time with the boilers running.
16 Q Okay. And you worked there eight hours
17 a day?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Did you sometimes work without
20 your shirt?
21 A It was very rare because they wouldnt
584
1 let you work down there without the shirt. If you
2 were up on deck, yes.
3 Q Oh. If you were outside, you were
4 allowed to –
5 A You worked without it.
6 Q But at 110 degrees, they didnt –
7 A But not down there for the simple
8 reason you might get burnt. You are better off if
9 you wore — lets put it this way, if you had — you
10 better wear clothes.
11 In other words, you had all these steam
12 lines. And if you are running around there with no
13 shirt there, then youd get burnt.
14 Q Okay. Was everybody working on the
15 ships a Merchant Marine?
16 A Yes.
17 Q They were.
18 And were you paid by Atlantic
19 Richfield?
20 A Atlantic Refining at that time.
21 Q It was called Atlantic Refining.
585
1 Thats who wrote your paychecks?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Okay. And how often was your ship that
4 you were assigned to at any particular time in
5 drydock? Was there some kind of schedule for
6 preventative maintenance?
7 A Yes. Yes. It had an annual
8 maintenance.
9 Q Annually?
10 A Yeah, I believe, or every six months.
11 I forget. Because it seemed like I was on it in
12 drydock every six months anyway.
13 Q So semi-annually?
14 A I believe it was annual. But they
15 would put me on ships that was going in to drydocks
16 lots of times, different ship.
17 Q Okay. So of the six ships, was there
18 always like one in drydock?
19 A Basically, yes, there was — out of
20 those six ships.
21 Q And how long on average would any
586
1 particular ship remain in drydock?
2 A It was based on the repairs, but most
3 of the time I would give it an average of a month.
4 Q How long?
5 A A month. I would give it an average.
6 Q One month?
7 A An average.
8 Q Okay. And the repairs that were done
9 when the boats were in drydock, were they done by
10 shipyard workers?
11 A Yes, and us. In other words, we had to
12 do our repairs, basically, because Atlantic tried to
13 save some money. And they would have the shipyard
14 workers would do a lot of it.
15 Q Now, Mr. Berglund, I have this image of
16 a ship thats like basically a large power plant.
17 And when its underway, all of the piping and fluid
18 systems are functioning; is that right?
19 A That is correct.
20 Q Okay. So when you have to do repairs,
21 you would have to shut down some of that function,
587
1 correct?
2 A Those ships for that reason have
3 auxiliary.
4 Q Okay.
5 A Just about everything has auxiliary
6 except the turbine and the boilers.
7 Q Meaning there is two sets of all the
8 equipment?
9 A And most of the equipment, yes, on
10 there, like different — the pumps and every — just
11 about basically everything has auxiliary where you
12 can shut it down.
13 Q But you would agree that it would be
14 preferable to do the repairs at port or during
15 drydock, correct?
16 A You had no choice. You had vibration
17 of that ship from bouncing up and down, and you
18 always had repairs. You had to keep that thing –
19 the company wanted to see that moving. You didnt
20 stop.
21 Q No, I understand that. But what I am
588
1 trying to get at is the repairs that you made were
2 of an emergent nature? You wouldnt do regular
3 routine maintenance while you were underway,
4 correct?
5 A Routine — everything was routine. We
6 had to maintain everything. And to get back to it,
7 some of the lines had bypasses.
8 In other words, we could bypass some
9 areas with the steam and work on what we needed to
10 work on.
11 Q These certificates of discharge that
12 you produced, are these — do these represent all of
13 the trips that you made with the merchant seamen?
14 A No. Thats just some that I — just by
15 luck I happened to have yet saved, I mean, after 40,
16 almost 50 years ago.
17 Q So do you think there are more that
18 exist or that did exist?
19 A Oh, yes, there was more, yes, maam.
20 Q Do you keep these in a file at home?
21 Where did you retrieve these from?
589
1 A No. I just had them laying down at the
2 farmhouse. And they were still down there.
3 Q I just, I note that of all of the
4 certificates of discharge, the very first one, here
5 at least, is December 23rd, 1957. Does that refresh
6 your recollection at all as to the first time that
7 you might have sailed on one of these vessels?
8 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
9 A No. I sailed before. Thats when The
10 Voyager — that was way before that.
11 Q The Voyager was the first vessel you
12 sailed on?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And do you remember when that was?
15 A What I can recall, it was in September
16 of 56.
17 Q Did you ever take any vacations while
18 you were employed at ARCO?
19 A Oh, yes.
20 Q Okay. Where — for how long? Did you
21 get a certain amount of time off?
590
1 A Yes. You could take a couple — like I
2 would take a trip off now and then. Every so
3 many — every three months, you could probably take
4 one off.
5 Q One week off every three months?
6 A Four months, yes.
7 Q Okay. Did you take those vacations
8 with Carol?
9 A Yes. We were together, yes,
10 constantly, yes.
11 Q Okay. Of the certificates of
12 discharge, I note that the very last one — strike
13 that.
14 When did you marry Carol in August of
15 1960? Do you remember the day?
16 A Yes. August the 5th. August the 5th
17 in 1960.
18 Q Okay. Did you go on a honeymoon?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And how long did you take off?
21 A I took a trip off. It was a week and a
591
1 half.
2 Q About ten days?
3 A About that.
4 Q Okay. Where did you go?
5 A We went to Wildwood and then Lake
6 George, New York.
7 Q Okay. And then did you immediately
8 move to the Woodstown farmhouse with her at that
9 time?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. And you moved in with your
12 parents?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And I read from your last day of
15 testimony that Carol didnt like you leaving after
16 you got married; is that correct?
17 A Correct.
18 Q And she wanted you to give up your job?
19 A Thats the reason why I left, yes.
20 Q Okay. Did she express that to you
21 before you got married?
592
1 A No.
2 Q No? It was only after you got married?
3 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
4 Q Okay. Again, I know these may not be
5 complete, but in the last one that I could find was
6 that the last trip — up here, the date of discharge
7 was September 1, 1960. Does that sound about right,
8 that that might have been the last trip you took
9 while employed by ARCO?
10 MR. TANKARD: Object to the form.
11 A I cant recall the exact last trip. I
12 cant even recall if I was sailing as fireman. They
13 wouldnt let me — for some reason, they didnt want
14 me to sail a fireman. They kept me as a wiper most
15 of the time.
16 Q Well, it says — your rating on this
17 particular trip says FWT. What does that stand for?
18 Is that fireman water –
19 A Tender, yes.
20 Q Okay. So that was your rating on that
21 trip. Do you recall that?
593
1 A On that trip? I recall making some
2 trips as a fireman, yes.
3 Q Okay. So do you think that that could
4 be a good reflection of when your last trip was, in
5 September of 1960?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
7 A I cant recall.
8 Q Okay. When did you — how did you get
9 your job at New York Ship? When did you apply, if
10 you remember?
11 A I replied at the Winter of I believe it
12 was 60.
13 Q Winter of 1960?
14 A Yes, somewhere, because it was — I
15 remember it was real cold. Thats all I remember.
16 Q My records reflect that you started
17 work on October 1st, 1960. Is that –
18 A October. It could have been October,
19 yes. Okay.
20 Q So did you apply sometime before then?
21 A Applied? No. I cant recall when I
594
1 applied for it, but I know I started working — I
2 thought it was cold, I remember that.
3 Q Okay. Did you apply for the job at New
4 York Ship after you gave notice at ARCO or sometime
5 before?
6 A No. It was right around the same time,
7 you know. I wanted to keep on working. So it was
8 probably right around there. I dont know when. I
9 couldnt really give you actually what I did back
10 then. I couldnt tell you.
11 Q Okay.
12 A On that particular thing.
13 Q After you got married, about how many
14 trips did you take before you, you know, stopped
15 working at ARCO?
16 A I cant recall exactly how many, but it
17 wasnt too many.
18 Q Just a couple?
19 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
20 A Yes. I dont know how many.
21 Q Okay. Carols dad, do you recall him?
595
1 A Yes.
2 Q What was his name?
3 A Walter.
4 Q Okay. Where did Walter work?
5 A He was a meat cutter for Acme Markets.
6 Q Did he have any other job besides being
7 a meat cutter?
8 A No.
9 Q How about her mom, did she work outside
10 the home?
11 A No, she didnt work.
12 Q Okay. What — is Walter, her dad,
13 deceased?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Do you know what he died of?
16 A Yes. Diabetes.
17 Q Diabetes?
18 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
19 Q How about her mom, what did she die of?
20 A I believe it was her heart.
21 Q Were they smokers?
596
1 A He was.
2 Q And he smoked in the house?
3 A I dont remember him smoking. I just
4 know he smoked occasionally.
5 Q Did he smoke cigarettes or a pipe or
6 cigars?
7 A Cigarette.
8 Q How about her siblings, Carols
9 siblings? Did she have any sisters or brothers?
10 A Yes. They werent living at the house
11 when I knew her.
12 Q Okay.
13 A Except her brother, and then he went to
14 Vietnam.
15 Q She had a brother who was living at the
16 house?
17 A Yes.
18 Q What was his name?
19 A John.
20 Q Where did he work?
21 A He went to school and then he went in
597
1 the service.
2 Q Okay. So he went into — he wasnt
3 working at the time that you knew him?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Did any of — Carols father or
6 brothers or uncles work at the shipyard?
7 A Oh, no, no.
8 Q Did her mother smoke?
9 A No.
10 MS. KARLOVICH: Okay. Okay, sir.
11 Thank you very much. Thats all I have.
12 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
13 1:54.
14 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
15 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
16 number 4. The time is 1:55.
17 (Whereupon, pause in the proceedings.)
18 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
19 number 5 of our video deposition of Mr. Berglund.
20 The time is 1:58.
21 EXAMINATION
598
1 BY MR. GILBERTI:
2 Q Mr. Berglund, good afternoon. My name
3 is Mike Gilberti. I have got some questions for
4 you.
5 In your first day of deposition, you
6 mentioned a valve called a Crane valve.
7 A Yes.
8 Q Do you remember that testimony?
9 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
10 Q And I believe you said that you
11 encountered them while you were working for Atlantic
12 Refining; is that correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Is that the only place you encountered
15 them?
16 A No.
17 Q Where else did you see them?
18 A On the job I just left with Clean
19 Harbors also.
20 Q Okay. Do you believe that — well, let
21 me ask you this.
599
1 How many times have you seen them since
2 leaving Atlantic Refining?
3 A Since I left Atlantic Refining Company?
4 Q Yep.
5 A Oh, very rare.
6 Q Do you believe that any of those
7 exposures ever exposed you to any asbestos?
8 A Exposure in the last couple of years
9 you mean?
10 Q Yeah.
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Lets go back to Atlantic
13 Refining. Are valves the only product you associate
14 with the name Crane or Crane Co.?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Now, during your time in Atlantic
17 Refining, do you associate them with all of the
18 ships or particular ships?
19 A I would — all the ships I would — the
20 main ones I remember stuff like this is the ones I
21 worked on the longest.
600
1 Q Okay.
2 A And that would be those three sister
3 ships.
4 Q Okay. So that would be, so I have got
5 them in my mind, The Seaman, The Navigator and The
6 Engineer would be where you mainly saw the Crane
7 valves?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Do you have a recollection of seeing
10 them on The Communicator?
11 A The Communicator, I am almost
12 positive — I am positive that they had some Crane
13 valves on there.
14 Q Okay. How about on the Tuttle?
15 A That I couldnt answer you on that one
16 because I was a messboy on there for some time.
17 Q Okay. And how about The Voyager?
18 A And The Voyager, I was a messboy,
19 messman.
20 Q Okay. So we are pretty much confined
21 to a lesser extent to The Communicator, but mostly
601
1 to The Engineer, The Seaman and The Navigator,
2 correct?
3 A Correct.
4 Q Okay. In those instances, did you ever
5 install a Crane valve in any of those?
6 A Taking them out and put them in the –
7 thats how — because they had it right on it, the
8 Crane.
9 Q Okay. I am going to get –
10 A And I would take them up to the machine
11 shop, and they would rebuild them sometimes. And
12 thats the only reason why I would be taking one out
13 and putting it back.
14 Q Okay. So with respect to the Crane
15 valves, if I understand your testimony, you would
16 take one out, you would take it up to the machine
17 shop, they would rebuild it, and you would take it
18 back?
19 A Yes. We would work on it there lots of
20 times, yes.
21 Q Okay. And was that the way — was that
602
1 true for all of the Crane valves that you believe
2 you were exposed to during that period and on those
3 ships?
4 A There was some that we didnt need to
5 take off, we could rebuild what we needed to do on
6 the stem right where — repack it and whatnot right
7 there where it was at.
8 Q Okay. What percentage of the time did
9 you take them out and take them up to the machine
10 shop?
11 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
12 Go ahead.
13 Q If you can answer, if you have a basis
14 for answering.
15 A I couldnt recall how many times. I
16 couldnt recall.
17 Q I am not looking for a number.
18 A To give you an average, maybe only once
19 or twice in a whole trip. That was taking it out.
20 Q Okay. Was that any valve or was that a
21 Crane valve?
603
1 A Most of it was Crane valves that we
2 worked on.
3 Q Okay. And when you took it out that
4 once or twice, do you believe you were exposed to
5 any asbestos in taking it out and taking it up to
6 the shop and putting it back?
7 A Taking the Crane valve out, when it
8 was — you had a flange, and the flange was covered
9 with asbestos, yes.
10 Q And the cover of the flange, was that a
11 cement type of product?
12 A It would be — up to the flange would
13 have been the regular, you know, the already made,
14 pre-made –
15 Q The rigid pipe covering?
16 A — pieces. Yes, it would have the pipe
17 covering. And then around the flange, you would
18 have to — sometimes, now, they did have that
19 asbestos, like a blanket. But later on after they
20 got ruined, we had to make our own, so this is why
21 you would have to smash the asbestos around that.
604
1 Q Okay. Now, with respect to those three
2 products — you have talked about the rigid pipe
3 covering, you have talked about the cement type of
4 product, and you have talked about the blanket. Do
5 you know whether Crane made any of those?
6 A No.
7 Q Other than those materials, did taking
8 out the valve, taking it up and having it reworked
9 and bringing it back expose you to any asbestos?
10 A Taking the gasket.
11 Q Okay. Lets talk about that. That was
12 a gasket that was in place?
13 A Yes. And that would be frozen on
14 there, and you would have to scrape it off.
15 Q Do you know whether Crane manufactured
16 those gaskets?
17 A No.
18 Q And the new ones — I believe you have
19 discussed a number of other gasket manufacturers
20 that you used, correct?
21 A Two of them, yes.
605
1 Q And do you believe Crane made any of
2 those, as opposed to John Crane?
3 A I dont — outside of John Crane, no.
4 Q Okay.
5 A I didnt even know if they were — I
6 thought they were together, to be honest with you.
7 I didnt know.
8 Q Okay. So you have told me all the ways
9 you believe you were exposed to any asbestos as a
10 result of taking out a Crane valve, having it
11 reworked and bringing it back, correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Now, when you worked on it in place –
14 and, by the way, was that true for all the Crane
15 valves that you took out, had remachined and put
16 back? They were all about the same?
17 A No.
18 Q Were there any differences?
19 A No. Some you had to take the insides,
20 naturally, out and put new — the clappers I called
21 them inside there.
606
1 Q Okay. We will talk –
2 A It was a wedge, wedge type of valve.
3 Q Okay. Was that done in the shop or was
4 that done on the times when you did it in place?
5 A That was done in the shop.
6 Q Okay. Did you ever do that work
7 yourself?
8 A Yes. I would tear it apart for it.
9 Q And how frequently did you do that
10 work?
11 A That was the same. It would have been
12 the same valve.
13 In other words, you were lucky if you
14 did one or two a trip.
15 Q Okay. Do you believe that work exposed
16 you to any asbestos?
17 A It was asbestos on it no matter what
18 you did with it because you took it up there, and
19 you still had stuff on it from when you knocked
20 asbestos off.
21 Q But that would –
607
1 A And then you would blow it — what you
2 would do is clean it off because you had to clean
3 the valve off.
4 Q Okay. Well, what I am getting at is
5 was there anything in addition to the types of
6 asbestos we have talked about, the pipe covering,
7 the cement type of thing or the blanket that — in
8 addition to that or other than that, when you took
9 it off and you messed with the insides and brought
10 it back, was there anything other than those three
11 types of asbestos you believe you were exposed to?
12 A Yes. Gasket.
13 Q And the gasket. Im sorry. Other than
14 those.
15 A Other than that, no, that I can recall.
16 Q So when you were working with the
17 insides up in the shop, there was no additional –
18 A Some of them had this material you had
19 to scrape off on the wedge or whatever you call it,
20 the clapper, I call it, yeah.
21 Q Do you know what that material was made
608
1 of?
2 A As far as I understood, it was some
3 kind of asbestos.
4 Q And what do you base that on?
5 A Just by what I seen.
6 Q Did you ever see any writing on that
7 material, anything on that material to tell you it
8 was asbestos?
9 A No. There was nothing that told me it
10 wasnt either.
11 Q Okay. Did you see any specifications
12 or any material –
13 A No. No.
14 Q — relating to that material that told
15 you it was asbestos?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. Now, lets talk about the times
18 you did the in-place work. What did you do when you
19 worked on it in place? I believe you said that
20 there was a second way you worked on these things
21 down — without taking them off.
609
1 A That work would have been repacking.
2 Q Okay. And how often would you do that?
3 A That would be more frequent. You might
4 do a couple of those a trip.
5 Q Okay. Now, for the Crane valves, what
6 would you do to repack it?
7 A To repack it?
8 Q Yep.
9 A You would take the packing nut off, and
10 then you would go and get your packing. First of
11 all, you would have to clean out the old packing.
12 Q Okay. Do you know who made the old
13 packing?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. When you put in the new packing,
16 did you get it at the storeroom?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And was that the packing you told us
19 about earlier?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you know whether Crane made that
610
1 packing?
2 A Some of it John Crane did.
3 Q Okay. But if John Crane is a different
4 company, would you believe that this Crane company
5 made any of the packing?
6 A Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
7 Q Okay. And with respect to these Crane
8 valves, when you saw them in place, were you aware
9 of their maintenance history up to the point where
10 you worked on them?
11 A No.
12 Q By the way, how big were these Crane
13 valves?
14 A There was different sizes. I couldnt
15 really give you the size, what size any of the
16 valves was because there was so many valves you are
17 working with there all the time.
18 Q Okay. Did you ever — is there any way
19 you can give me an estimate or a best memory of how
20 big Crane valves — the range of the Crane valves
21 you worked on?
611
1 A No, I couldnt give you an estimate.
2 And I said — I said a trip. I meant a day you
3 might work on one or two of them, especially if you
4 were doing the repacking. You would definitely
5 repack a couple of them a day.
6 Q Okay. But that was for all valves,
7 correct?
8 A Basically, it was all valves, but there
9 was a lot of Crane valves, I know that.
10 Q Okay. What kind of valves were these?
11 A There was globe valves and there was
12 gate valves and blow-down valves. There is all
13 kinds of valves.
14 Q Do you associate any of those more with
15 Crane, one kind rather than the other?
16 A Most of the ones that I — would be
17 Crane. I would say that they had a mixture of them,
18 too. There was a mixture of them.
19 Q Do you know what color Crane valves
20 were?
21 A Well, they were all — on that ship,
612
1 they were all silver because thats what we painted
2 them because they are for the steam.
3 Q Okay. How did you know they were Crane
4 valves?
5 A Because it had a logo right on the side
6 of it on a Crane valve.
7 Q Okay. Was it stamped in?
8 A Like letters stamped.
9 Q Was it stamped in the valve or was it
10 on a plate?
11 A It actually came out Crane, the name
12 Crane right on it.
13 Q Was stamped into the valve?
14 A It was like — how do you say it?
15 Almost like — you know how you weld something?
16 Stamped in it I guess you would say.
17 Q Okay. What was the lettering? Was it
18 block, script or print or some other?
19 A I know it was print, but I cant
20 remember everything that — I can recall it was
21 print.
613
1 Q Do you recall what color the lettering
2 was?
3 A Because the lettering would have
4 been — see, everything was painted silver.
5 Q Do you know what these valves were
6 regulating, what kind of materials?
7 A Yes. Steam.
8 Q Were all of them steam or were some of
9 them steam, some hot water, some air?
10 A Most of them — no, there were some
11 water valves was Crane. See, we basically had
12 mostly — the steam was the ones that we repaired.
13 You hardly ever had the water problems.
14 Q Okay. Thank you.
15 Were there any logos on the Crane
16 valves?
17 A The only thing I seen was the name
18 Crane, and it had another number underneath it.
19 Q I know this is going to sound crazy.
20 Do you remember any of the numbers that were
21 underneath?
614
1 A The patent numbers? No, I cant
2 remember them.
3 Q Have you told me all the ways you
4 believe you were exposed to any Crane valves?
5 A I was exposed to Crane valves or to
6 asbestos?
7 Q Well, I am talking about Crane valves,
8 that you worked on or around Crane valves.
9 A Yes, I worked around Crane valves.
10 Q Okay. Have you told me all the ways
11 that you worked around — and all the times you
12 worked on them?
13 A All that I can think of right now, yes.
14 More might come to me. I dont know.
15 Q Let me just check a few notes here.
16 Now, you have told us about a lot of
17 products that you worked around. Have you told us
18 about all of the asbestos-containing products that
19 you believe you worked around that you can remember?
20 A All the asbestos products that I can
21 remember, yes.
615
1 Q At this point, can you think of any
2 others?
3 A Not offhand.
4 MR. GILBERTI: Thank you.
5 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
6 2:12.
7 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
8 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
9 at 2:13.
10 EXAMINATION
11 BY MS. GURSKY:
12 Q Good afternoon. My name is Meredith
13 Gursky. I am from McGivney & Kluger. I just have a
14 few more questions for you. I apologize if some of
15 them seem repetitive. I will try to keep it to a
16 minimum.
17 At your first day of testimony, you
18 recalled working with a product made by a company
19 named Leslie. Do you recall that?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What product do you associate with that
616
1 name?
2 A A valve.
3 Q Okay. Did you personally work with the
4 Leslie valves?
5 A Leslie valves was the real big valves,
6 a couple of them. And I worked with them, yes, but
7 not that much.
8 Q When you say not that much, can you
9 estimate for me how many Leslie valves you worked
10 with in comparison to any of the other valves you
11 had worked with?
12 A We worked with them mostly in the
13 shipyard, that type of valve, big valve.
14 Q Now, in the shipyard, do you mean while
15 you were employed by ARCO or are you speaking of New
16 York Ship?
17 A No, ARCO.
18 Q ARCO.
19 Okay. Do you recall what shipyards you
20 worked with them, which shipyards?
21 A It would have been in either one of
617
1 them, down in Virginia, Newport News, or Baltimore.
2 Q What did you specifically do with the
3 Leslie valves?
4 A The only thing we would do on that
5 is — mostly would be the packing.
6 Q Did you disassemble a Leslie valve?
7 A Just the packing nut and take the
8 packing, yes.
9 Q Okay. Do you recall a particular ship
10 you worked with a Leslie valve?
11 A It would have been — the three that I
12 really remember with any — most of the stuff is
13 those — The Seaman and The Engineer. That was the
14 main — would have been the main ones.
15 Q You mentioned three. Was the third
16 one — forgive me. Was the third one The Navigator?
17 A The Navigator, yes.
18 Q But not the other three?
19 A Oh, yes, it would have been probably,
20 but I specifically remember those you said in the
21 shipyard, yes.
618
1 Q For Leslie? With Leslie valves?
2 A Yeah.
3 Q How were these Leslie valves packaged?
4 A Oh, I dont know. They were already on
5 there. They were already on the ship.
6 Q You never observed Leslie valves in
7 their original packaging?
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. So the only Leslie valves you
10 ever worked with were the ones that were already
11 installed on the ship?
12 A Installed on the ship, yes.
13 Q Did you ever install a Leslie valve on
14 the ship?
15 A No.
16 Q So as with — as you previously
17 testified, you wouldnt know the maintenance history
18 of a Leslie valve that you worked on?
19 A No.
20 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
21 Q What color — you mentioned before,
619
1 earlier, that you were colorblind. Are you –
2 A Oh, no, not that bad.
3 Q Were you colorblind at the time you
4 worked for ARCO?
5 A No, I am not that bad.
6 Q Okay. What color were the Leslie
7 valves you worked on?
8 A Everything was painted — as I said in
9 the last testimony, everything was painted silver on
10 them ships.
11 Q Did you ever see them before they were
12 painted?
13 A No.
14 Q What were the Leslie valves made of?
15 A The Leslie valves were made of steel
16 that I seen or die cast steel, cast iron. I dont
17 know.
18 Q Do you recall the dimensions of the
19 Leslie valves you worked on?
20 A I remember they were the big valves
21 that I remember.
620
1 Q Can you estimate for me what you mean
2 by big?
3 A Bigger than the other ones, I will put
4 it that way. I couldnt give you exact. I remember
5 they were bigger than the other valves.
6 Q Do you recall the weight of a Leslie
7 valve?
8 A No, because I never took one actually
9 off. We just worked on them. I remember working on
10 them but not taking one off, no.
11 Q Was there a nameplate on the Leslie
12 valve?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Where was the nameplate located?
15 A There was a plate on them. It was
16 right on the — what I call the bonnet was the name,
17 their name, their logo, whatever it is. It was
18 right on the side of the valve.
19 Q And what did the nameplate say?
20 A It had the name and then it had the
21 manufacturer and some numbers, manufacturer, I
621
1 guess, numbers. And that was it.
2 Q And you cant recall the numbers?
3 A No. You see, a lot of that stuff had
4 so much paint on it, you couldnt really see the
5 little fine stuff. The other was — stood out. It
6 was big letters.
7 Q What type of liquid would a Leslie
8 valve control?
9 A It was some that was on the sea suction
10 valves. That was for water.
11 Q They were water valves?
12 A And then there was — there was other
13 valves that they controlled, but I cant recall.
14 Q But specifically to Leslie, you recall
15 them being water valves?
16 A I remember the big ones was the
17 water — big water valves, yes.
18 Q Were they hot water valves or cold
19 water valves?
20 A No. They were — they were the water
21 that came out of — the seawater, I believe, and
622
1 probably went to the condenser after — cooling,
2 some kind of cooling. I know they were for some
3 kind of cooling.
4 Q Do you believe you were exposed to
5 asbestos while working — while repacking a Leslie
6 valve?
7 A With the packing, I would have been
8 exposed, yes.
9 Q Lets speak a little bit about the
10 packing.
11 Can you describe for me the process –
12 the process you would go through in order to repack
13 a Leslie valve?
14 A Yes. Take the packing nut off and
15 clean out the old packing and then put the new
16 packing in.
17 Q What did you use to clean off the old
18 packing?
19 A You would take like a corkscrew and try
20 to — and pull it out. They were a little bigger.
21 It was a little easier to get, but they were — to
623
1 get at.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And then you would blow it out to clean
4 all the — you know, because, naturally, you are
5 making a little mess in there. And then you would
6 blow it out with an air line.
7 Q Now, when you say they were easier to
8 get out, is that because they were the bigger
9 valves?
10 A Um-hmm.
11 Q Was that a yes?
12 A Yes, that was a yes.
13 Q Do you know the manufacturer of the
14 packing you removed?
15 A Do I know the manufacturer? It would
16 have been either the Garlock — I couldnt give you
17 a specific on what we used in each valve — or the
18 John Crane.
19 Q Right.
20 I am asking about the packing you
21 removed from the valve.
624
1 A Yes.
2 Q Would you know the manufacturer of that
3 packing, of the old packing?
4 A No, no, no.
5 Q What was the size — what was the color
6 of the packing when you removed it from the Leslie
7 valve?
8 A The packing on — that packing was more
9 of like a whitish, grayish, dark gray.
10 Q Okay. How many times would you say you
11 removed packing from a Leslie valve, if you can
12 estimate for me?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
14 Q You can answer.
15 A I couldnt recall.
16 Q And when you installed the new packing,
17 where did — strike that.
18 Did you install any packing in the
19 Leslie valve?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. What was that packing made of?
625
1 A That packing there, it was made of a –
2 I dont even know if that one was asbestos, to be
3 honest with you. I cant recall.
4 Q Did you ever see the packaging that
5 that packing came in?
6 A Because I only did — once in a while
7 we did Leslie valves, so I cant really give you too
8 much on it.
9 Q So you dont recall what the packaging
10 of that packing that you installed in a Leslie valve
11 was?
12 A Not that I can recall, no.
13 Q Okay. Do you recall the manufacturer
14 of the packing that you installed in a Leslie valve?
15 A Just the manufacturers that had the
16 packing. I cant recall what manufacturer that we
17 put on there, no.
18 Q Do you believe Leslie manufactured the
19 packing you installed?
20 A Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
21 Q Okay. Do you believe the packing you
626
1 removed contained asbestos?
2 A That I really dont know at the time.
3 I couldnt recall if that had any asbestos. It was
4 different than what I was used to.
5 Q How do you believe you were exposed to
6 asbestos from working with the packing associated
7 with the Leslie valve?
8 A Because I dont know if that was
9 asbestos. It could have been asbestos. I dont –
10 I cant give you an answer on that one.
11 Q Sir, so you cannot state for any
12 certainty that the packing you installed or removed
13 from a Leslie valve contained asbestos, correct?
14 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
15 MR. KUZMIN: Objection to form.
16 A No, I cant really recall.
17 Q Do you believe working with a Leslie
18 valve in any other way may have caused you to be
19 exposed to asbestos?
20 A Well, I was working — yes, because
21 there is asbestos all around it, and you had to wipe
627
1 it off to clean it.
2 Q Are you referring to the covering
3 around the valves?
4 A The covering — no, not the covering,
5 but just the dust — you had all these asbestos
6 pipes, so, naturally, you have asbestos on it.
7 Q But the components you are speaking of,
8 were those manufactured by Leslie?
9 A No.
10 MS. GURSKY: Okay. I am going to look
11 through my notes, and Ill let you know if I have
12 any other questions. Thank you for your time.
13 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
14 2:23.
15 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
16 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
17 at 2:24.
18 EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. IANNICELLI:
20 Q Good afternoon, sir.
21 A Good afternoon.
628
1 Q How are you?
2 My name is Chris Iannicelli. I am with
3 Morgan, Lewis & Brockius. I represent three of the
4 defendants in this case.
5 The first day you were deposed, sir,
6 you identified a company called Yarway. Do you
7 recall that?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What products do you associate with
10 Yarway?
11 A Valves.
12 Q Okay. Now, is this just with respect
13 to your time at Atlantic Refining?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. I want to ask you some questions
16 generally about valves before I get into
17 specifically Yarway valves.
18 Do you know what a blowdown valve is?
19 A A blowdown valve? Yes.
20 Q Could you describe that for me?
21 A Thats for the — on the boiler.
629
1 Q Did you ever work with any blowdown
2 valves on the Atlantic Refining ships?
3 A Yes, we worked on — with blowdown
4 valves.
5 Q Do you know what a stop valve is?
6 A A stop valve?
7 Q A stop valve.
8 A I know what — I cant recall exactly
9 what the function is. Yes, I heard of it before –
10 Q Okay.
11 A — and I worked with it, yes.
12 Q Did you ever work with a stop valve on
13 an Atlantic Refining ship?
14 A Yes, I am positive I did.
15 Q Okay. What about a regulating valve?
16 A Regulators? Yes, there was a lot of
17 regulators on a ship.
18 Q What was the function of those?
19 A To regulate the steam thats going into
20 the different areas where it was going.
21 Q What about an isolation valve?
630
1 A Isolation valve, I cant recall. It
2 would be what — we might have had another name for
3 what you are saying.
4 Q Right.
5 A I dont know.
6 Q Okay. Do you know the difference
7 between a gate valve and a globe valve?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. Can you explain that to me?
10 A Well, the gate valve has like a wedge
11 in it. A globe is a little different. It has a
12 wedge inside of it turn.
13 Q All right, sir. Now I want to ask you
14 specifically about Yarway valves.
15 Do you recall ever working specifically
16 with a Yarway valve on board any of the Atlantic
17 Refining ships?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Could you tell me what ships
20 that you may have worked with Yarway valves?
21 A Basically, we go back to the three main
631
1 ones.
2 Q Can you give me those names again?
3 A The Seaman, The Navigator and The
4 Engineer.
5 Q Could you tell me how many Yarway
6 valves you may have worked with on The Seaman?
7 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
8 A I couldnt give you an estimate of how
9 many. It was just a lot of valves that we worked
10 on.
11 Q What about The Navigator, can you tell
12 me how many Yarway valves you worked on?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
14 A No.
15 Q What about The Engineer?
16 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
17 A No.
18 Q Could you tell me what kind of valves
19 the Yarway valves were that you worked with?
20 A No. I just remember seeing that they
21 are Yarway, but I couldnt tell you exactly every
632
1 function of them valves.
2 Q What did the Yarway valves look like?
3 A They looked the same as the other
4 valves except maybe there was some that was a little
5 different, like you are talking about the regulator
6 valves. There is regulator valves thats different
7 than the other valves.
8 Q Well, do you recall working with a
9 Yarway regulator valve?
10 A Not really that much on the regulator,
11 but — you mentioned regulator. And I am trying to
12 tell you that there was a valve, yes — yes, there
13 was a valve that goes up to the regulator. See,
14 there is a couple different valves on there.
15 Q So you believe you worked on a Yarway
16 regulator valve?
17 A No. I worked on Yarway valves. I
18 cant recall exactly everywheres I worked on them.
19 Q Okay. So is it just fair to say, sir,
20 that you just recall generally working on Yarway
21 valves?
633
1 A Yes. Yes.
2 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
3 Q So could you tell me again, sir, how
4 you believe you know these were Yarway valves?
5 A Because when you are taking them off
6 and you take them up into the machine shop, you are
7 right with them and you are working on them, and you
8 can see the blade on them.
9 Q So you saw a nameplate?
10 A You see the name, yes. You see the
11 name on them.
12 Q Could you describe that for me, what it
13 looked like?
14 A Outside of being silver, no.
15 Q Was this nameplate stamped onto the
16 valve?
17 A Some of them did have a stamp on them,
18 yes.
19 Q Okay. Now, you say some of them. Are
20 you talking about Yarway valves or other valves?
21 A Yarway, yes. Yeah, Yarway.
634
1 Q So some of the Yarway — Im sorry.
2 A But a lot of them had a little plate on
3 them, too, for certain valves.
4 Q Right.
5 So some were stamped and some were
6 nameplates?
7 A Yeah.
8 Q Okay. For the ones where you saw it
9 stamped in the valve, what did it say?
10 A It had their name and then the other
11 numbers underneath it. And it was a — on those, I
12 am thinking if they were on the top or — see, I
13 call it the bonnet. I cant recall on that. But I
14 seen their name on it.
15 Q Okay. Could you spell their name for
16 me?
17 A No. I am not good at spelling.
18 Q Okay. Thats fine.
19 Could you recall what those other
20 letters were that you say were on the nameplate?
21 A No, just their — probably their
635
1 patent. I dont know what it was –
2 Q Okay.
3 A — with the paint on them.
4 Q Okay. Could you tell me what kinds of
5 liquids flowed through the Yarway valves?
6 A The ones I most saw, worked on was
7 steam.
8 Q Where were these Yarway valves located
9 on the ships?
10 A All over. You had valves all over.
11 Q Well, you told us that you worked in
12 the engine room and the fireroom.
13 A Um-hmm.
14 Q So is it fair to say that they would
15 have been somewhere in those rooms?
16 A Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
17 Q Okay. And that would have been the
18 only place you would have worked with them?
19 A Basically, yes.
20 Q Okay. So the Yarway valves were
21 attached to steam lines?
636
1 A Yes.
2 Q Were they high-pressure steam lines?
3 A All of them was pretty high pressure,
4 yes.
5 Q Do you recall only seeing Yarway valves
6 on high-pressure steam lines?
7 A When you say high pressure, on steam
8 itself.
9 Q On steam lines?
10 A I couldnt — if it was high pressure,
11 low pressure. Just steam lines.
12 Q Okay. So the only place you recall
13 seeing Yarway valves on these ships were on steam
14 lines?
15 A Yes, because that was where we had all
16 our repairs. The others, you might have had them on
17 there, but I didnt notice what you had because –
18 what they had on there because we hardly worked on
19 them.
20 Q Now, you have already testified that
21 not every valve that you worked on was a Yarway
637
1 valve; is that correct?
2 A Not every valve, of course not.
3 Q Could you tell me how many times you
4 may have worked on a Yarway valve, give me an
5 estimate?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
7 A No, I couldnt give you an exact amount
8 because its all according to how rough the ship
9 was — I mean the trip was where just things
10 vibrated and whatnot. And you might have had to
11 take a flange off of it and put a new gasket on it.
12 Q Right.
13 A Things like that.
14 Q But as you sit here today, sir, and you
15 think back all those years ago, could you recall,
16 you know, just a general, you know, approximation of
17 the number of times you may have worked with a
18 Yarway valve as opposed to any other manufacturers
19 valve?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
21 A No.
638
1 Q Could you tell me it was less than ten
2 times?
3 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Is it fair to say though that
6 the number of Yarway valves you worked with was no
7 greater than any other manufacturers valves?
8 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
9 A I dont know which ones I worked with
10 more, but — I cant answer that.
11 Q Okay. Thats fair.
12 Sir, what kind of work did you perform
13 on the Yarway valves?
14 A The same as the other valves. Its
15 according to what it needed. If it was blowing
16 steam out of the stem, you would repack it. And
17 basic — that was the basic.
18 Q Okay. And do you ever recall changing
19 the packing on a Yarway valve?
20 A Yes, because we would take it in –
21 thats the ones I said we took it — I would take it
639
1 off, and thats how I remember the name. There
2 might have been other valves around, but you
3 remember what you take off more than — and you
4 would take it in the machine shop and work on it.
5 Q Okay. You cant tell me how many times
6 you would –
7 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
8 A No.
9 Q Now, the packing — did you ever
10 remove — you removed packing from a Yarway valve,
11 correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Okay. Do you have any way of knowing
14 if the packing you removed was original to that
15 valve?
16 A We had no idea if it was original, no.
17 Q Do you know the manufacturer of the
18 packing that you removed?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. You dont have any reason to
21 believe that the manufacturer of the packing you
640
1 removed was Yarway, do you?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. Did you ever just replace the
4 packing in a Yarway valve?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Can you tell me how many times
7 you may have done that?
8 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
9 A No.
10 Q Now, you got the replacement packing
11 from the storeroom on board the ships, right?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Who was the manufacturer of the
14 replacement packing?
15 A It could be John Crane and — I dont
16 know.
17 Q All right. You dont have any reason
18 to believe it was — the replacement packing was
19 manufactured by Yarway, correct?
20 A Oh, no, no.
21 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
641
1 Q Okay. Well, you never saw any packing
2 come out of a box and the box said Yarway?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Thanks.
5 Did you ever — I want to ask you about
6 gaskets.
7 Did you ever replace an internal gasket
8 on a Yarway valve?
9 A I cant recall on that one.
10 Q Did you ever replace an external flange
11 gasket on a Yarway valve?
12 A I dont know what you mean by internal
13 flange.
14 Q External.
15 A External. Oh, external.
16 Q A flange gasket.
17 A Yeah. The flange, yes. We have got to
18 take — you would have to undo the flange to take
19 the valve off.
20 Q Right.
21 Could you tell me how many times you
642
1 may have done that with respect to a Yarway valve?
2 A No.
3 Q Now, I want to ask you generally, were
4 any of the Yarway valves that you worked on, were
5 they welded into the steam lines?
6 A I cant recall what was welded. There
7 was a few valves that — little tiny valves might
8 have been welded on. I cant recall.
9 Q Now, those valves wouldnt have had
10 external flange gaskets, correct, the ones that were
11 welded in the line?
12 A Those wouldnt, but they would still
13 need packing.
14 Q Right.
15 Now, valves that werent welded into
16 the line would be bolted like — they would be
17 bolted into the line, right?
18 A Yes. Correct.
19 Q Okay. Now, for the valves that were
20 bolted into the line, there would be external flange
21 gaskets between the valve and the line, correct?
643
1 A Correct.
2 Q Now, on those steam lines, would these
3 gaskets be typically Flexitallic or spiral-wound
4 gaskets?
5 A I dont know what the spiral-wound — I
6 am talking about they would be the asbestos pre-made
7 gaskets, unless you could make one, yes.
8 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Did you lose your
9 microphone?
10 MR. TANKARD: She is saying I think
11 your microphone must have gone too low.
12 MR. IANNICELLI: Oh, Im sorry about
13 that. How is that? You hear me?
14 BY MR. IANNICELLI:
15 Q Sir, you dont know the maintenance
16 history of any of those Yarway valves, do you?
17 A No.
18 MR. IANNICELLI: All right. I think
19 thats all I have for now, sir. Thank you. I
20 appreciate it.
21 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
644
1 2:38.
2 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
3 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
4 at 2:39.
5 RE-EXAMINATION
6 BY MS. GURSKY:
7 Q Hi, sir. I just have one quick
8 follow-up question. Meredith Gursky from McGivney &
9 Kluger.
10 You previously testified that you
11 worked with only a few Leslie valves, correct?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Can you estimate for me, was it less
14 than two, three? Can you give me a number?
15 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
16 A On what? I couldnt give you in any –
17 what do you mean, on a trip?
18 Q In your lifetime working for ARCO,
19 approximately how many –
20 A I couldnt give you — it was just less
21 than the other ones, thats it.
645
1 Q Less than ten?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
3 A I have no idea how many less. It was
4 very few.
5 MS. GURSKY: Okay. Thank you for your
6 time, sir.
7 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
8 2:39.
9 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
10 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
11 at 2:40.
12 RE-EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. IANNICELLI:
14 Q Sir, I am sorry. I have got to ask you
15 just a couple more questions, sir.
16 You talked about working with Yarway
17 valves. Do you recall working with any other Yarway
18 products?
19 A No.
20 MR. IANNICELLI: Okay. Thank you, sir.
21 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
646
1 2:40.
2 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
3 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
4 at 2:41.
5 RE-EXAMINATION
6 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
7 Q Hi, Mr. Berglund. How are you?
8 A All right.
9 Q Okay. My name is Lisa Wildstein, as
10 you know. We got a chance to speak the other day.
11 And I just have a few more questions based on your
12 testimony here today. You also know I represent
13 Garlock.
14 And I wanted to ask you, its true, you
15 dont know — you didnt work with any other Garlock
16 product anywhere other than at Atlantic, correct?
17 A Correct.
18 Q Okay. And then I just wanted to ask
19 you, why were you divorced from Carol?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection to form.
21 A Why was I divorced?
647
1 Q Yes, please.
2 A She was too young, and we just knew
3 that it wasnt working out at the end after all them
4 years.
5 Q Well, you were married for 27 years,
6 right?
7 A Um-hmm.
8 Q So, I mean –
9 A She wanted her freedom, I guess. I –
10 you would have to ask her, and you cant, so I cant
11 tell you that.
12 Q Did Carol ever tell you she wanted the
13 divorce?
14 A No, not in the beginning, no, but you
15 sense it when she dont come home.
16 Q Okay. Was Carol with her –
17 A Husband, yes.
18 Q — at the time you were still married?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Was Carol unfaithful to you?
21 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
648
1 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
2 Q You can answer.
3 A Well, I guess she was. I wasnt around
4 her.
5 Q But you guess she was?
6 A Um-hmm.
7 Q Okay. And immediately upon leaving
8 your marital relationship, did Carol take up with
9 her second husband?
10 MR. TANKARD: I am going to object to
11 all this. How does this relate to todays
12 testimony?
13 MS. WILDSTEIN: Its most certainly
14 relevant.
15 MR. TANKARD: I didnt say that. I
16 said how does this relate? You said youd ask
17 questions based on todays testimony.
18 MS. WILDSTEIN: It does relate to
19 todays testimony.
20 MR. TANKARD: Okay. Well, I have a
21 continuing line — I interpose a continuing
649
1 objection to this line of questions.
2 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
3 Q I am sorry. Just dont answer. Let me
4 have my question read back so I can know what I
5 asked.
6 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
7 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
8 Q You can answer.
9 A I guess so. I didnt — right then, I
10 didnt have — know, you know, what she was doing.
11 Q Okay. During the course of your
12 27-year marriage, had there been other instances
13 where you believe Carol was unfaithful to you?
14 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
15 A She might have been. And I might have
16 been, too. I dont know.
17 Q Well, I am asking for your belief.
18 A I believe she was.
19 Q Now, let me just switch gears a moment
20 and go back to when you were dating Carol and
21 staying in her parents home on the sofa.
650
1 A Yes.
2 Q Were there ever times that anyone other
3 than Carols mother or father lived in that house
4 with her?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Who else lived in that home with her?
7 A Walter, her brother, and John.
8 Q And what did Walter do for a living?
9 A Walter worked basically in a warehouse.
10 Oh, he was in the — no, he was in the Navy at
11 first. He was in Vietnam. And John was in Vietnam.
12 Q And were both of them on board ships at
13 any time?
14 A No.
15 Q Well, do you know?
16 A I mean, I dont — John was a gunner in
17 a helicopter.
18 Q Okay. If John was on — Im sorry.
19 Strike that.
20 If John was a gunner, that means he was
21 aboard a ship at some point, right?
651
1 A A helicopter. I dont know how he got
2 there in Vietnam.
3 Q What is Johns last name?
4 A Petroski.
5 Q Can you spell that for me, please?
6 A P-E-T-R-O-S-K-I.
7 Q And where does John reside?
8 A Mount Ephraim.
9 Q Mount Ephraim, New Jersey?
10 A Um-hmm.
11 Q Are you in touch with John?
12 A I see him occasionally at different
13 affairs even today.
14 Q Okay. And what is Johns address?
15 A I have no idea what his address.
16 Q Would you — I didnt mean to interrupt
17 you. Sorry.
18 Would you please provide that address
19 to your attorney. And I make a formal request on
20 the record for Johns address.
21 MR. TANKARD: Well, he is not
652
1 represented by any attorney.
2 MS. WILDSTEIN: Oh, you are right.
3 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
4 Q Would you please provide that
5 information to this attorney. And I would make a
6 formal request that he provide it to me on the
7 record.
8 A If I can get it. Like I said, I dont
9 have his phone number or anything.
10 Q Okay. And then how about Walter, is
11 his last name also Petroski?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And where does Walter live?
14 A I have no idea.
15 Q When is the last time you saw Walter?
16 A Approximately — oh, at Carols
17 funeral.
18 Q Where is Walter living now?
19 A I have no idea.
20 Q Do you believe he is living in New
21 Jersey?
653
1 A Yes.
2 Q You dont know the town?
3 A No.
4 Q Would your son know what town Walter is
5 living in?
6 A I have no idea.
7 Q Could you please ask your son and
8 provide that information to this attorney? And I
9 would request that he provide it to me.
10 These fellows that we just discussed,
11 Walter and John, are your childrens uncles,
12 correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Was Carol ever diagnosed with
15 any drug or alcohol-related problems?
16 A No.
17 Q Did Carol smoke?
18 A Yes.
19 Q How much did she smoke per day?
20 A She didnt smoke much, but she smoked.
21 I couldnt give you an exact how many because I
654
1 never smoked, so I dont even know, you know — she
2 never asked me for no cigarettes, thats for sure.
3 Q Was it a pack per day, something less
4 than that, something greater than that?
5 A I guess less than a pack a day.
6 Q For how many years did Carol smoke?
7 A I guess approximately — she stopped
8 for a while, a long while. Then she wasnt smoking
9 for the last 20 years that I know of. I would say
10 off and on she would stop and start. I couldnt
11 give you an estimate on it.
12 Q Well, lets start when you met Carol,
13 did she smoke?
14 A Yes.
15 Q When you divorced Carol, did she smoke?
16 A No.
17 Q When did she stop smoking prior to your
18 and Carol no longer being together?
19 A She stopped there for a while, maybe a
20 year, two years before that.
21 Q Before you two separated?
655
1 A Yeah.
2 Q Now, when you and Carol married and
3 then moved in with your folks, did anyone else live
4 in that home with you, Carol and your folks?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Who?
7 A My brothers.
8 Q How many brothers do you have?
9 A I had three.
10 Q What are their names?
11 A Richard, David, and Bill.
12 Q All of them the same last name as you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What did Richard do for a living back
15 then?
16 A Richard, he was going to college.
17 Q Was Richard in any form of military?
18 Did he serve?
19 A Yeah, but not when we lived there.
20 Q Did he serve prior to your living
21 there?
656
1 A No.
2 Q He served subsequent to your living
3 there?
4 A Afterwards, yes. After we moved out of
5 there, he was in the military.
6 Q And how about David, what did he do for
7 a living back then?
8 A David was also — he was going to
9 regular school and then to college.
10 Q Did he have a trade?
11 A Not when we were living there, no.
12 Q Was David in the services?
13 A David was in no service, no.
14 Q How about Bill, what did he do back
15 then?
16 A Bill was — I dont know. I forget
17 what he was actually doing at that time because he
18 went in the service also.
19 Q What service? What branch?
20 A He was in the Army.
21 Q Thats while Carol –
657
1 A He got drafted. That was while we were
2 living there.
3 Q While you were living there.
4 Was he aboard any ships?
5 A Not that I know of.
6 Q Where does Bill live?
7 A Bill lives in Pennsville.
8 Q Pennsville, New Jersey?
9 A Yes.
10 Q I would also ask that you provide
11 Bills address to this attorney, and then we can ask
12 him for it, make a formal request.
13 Did anybody else live in the house at
14 any time while you and Carol were living with your
15 folks?
16 A No.
17 Q How about when you and Carol moved out
18 and got your own home together, other than your
19 children, did anyone else ever live with you and
20 Carol at any time?
21 A No.
658
1 Q Did anyone in your family ever have any
2 asbestos-related lawsuit or claim? Any of your
3 brothers?
4 A No. I have asbestosis though. Maybe I
5 would have one. I never pursued it.
6 Q Okay. Now, Carols second husband,
7 what did he do for a living?
8 A He is a truck driver, as far as I know.
9 Q Did he ever serve in any branch of the
10 Armed Forces?
11 A I have no idea what he did.
12 Q Well, did he ever do anything other
13 than truck driving, to your knowledge?
14 A I dont know the man. I wouldnt know.
15 Q Do you know if he was ever in any
16 trade?
17 A Again, I do not know the man. I do not
18 know.
19 Q During the 27 years that you were
20 married to Carol, did she ever live with anyone else
21 at any time?
659
1 A No. That I know of, no.
2 Q At Atlantic — and these are my final
3 questions for you — how long did it take you on an
4 average — and I do realize that it varied — to
5 just actually install a gasket on a pipe, no other
6 task associated with the function but literally
7 putting the gasket onto the pipe?
8 A Just put it — after it was cleaned and
9 everything –
10 Q Correct.
11 A — all you are doing is putting the
12 gasket in and button it up?
13 Q Yes.
14 A Just as long as it takes to button the
15 bolts up.
16 Q Five seconds?
17 A No, no, no. Each one — dont forget,
18 you have to torque them just right to make them
19 right so that you dont have no blowout of the
20 gasket. So it would take a little longer than that.
21 It would take more than five minutes or ten minutes.
660
1 It would take approximately over a half hour.
2 Q On an average, it would take you a half
3 hour?
4 A Um-hmm.
5 Q Yes?
6 A Yes, it would.
7 Q Okay.
8 A And if its a bigger one, it might take
9 longer.
10 Q By the same token, if its a smaller
11 one, it might take you –
12 A I am just giving you an average, yes.
13 Q Okay. So if its a smaller one, it
14 might take less time?
15 A It might take less.
16 Q And then on an average, how long did it
17 take you to remove a gasket from a pipe?
18 A According to how bad it was melted on
19 there.
20 Q On an average.
21 A It would take you a good half hour.
661
1 Q Okay. And, now, how long did it
2 actually take you to make a gasket on an average
3 when you actually had to go about making one?
4 A That would take about maybe 15 minutes.
5 MS. WILDSTEIN: All right. Thanks so
6 much for your time. I really appreciate it.
7 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
8 2:52.
9 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
10 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
11 number 5. Our time is 2:53.
12 (Whereupon, recess taken — 2:53 p.m.)
13 (Whereupon, after recess — 2:58 p.m.)
14 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
15 number 6 of our video deposition of George Berglund,
16 Sr. The time is 2:58.
17 EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. KUZMIN:
19 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Berglund. My name
20 is Bill Kuzmin. I just have a few questions for
21 you. Hopefully, I can get through this quickly.
662
1 And I think Im the last one, so we can get you out
2 of here.
3 I just want to focus my questioning
4 specifically on the USS Kitty Hawk. Okay? And you
5 previously testified that you started there I
6 believe in October of 1960?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And while you were there, you worked as
9 a pipe coverer; is that correct?
10 A Correct, all the time.
11 Q And I believe you also testified on
12 your first day that your job responsibilities took
13 you all over the ship; would that be accurate?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Now, while you were working as a
16 pipe coverer, would you need or did you ever have
17 the opportunity to work near machinists?
18 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
19 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
20 A A machinist?
21 Q The machinists.
663
1 A There was people working all over the
2 ship. I — you know, I couldnt distinguish which
3 one they were, but — I couldnt really tell you
4 that.
5 Q Okay. During the course of your work
6 on the Kitty Hawk, did you ever spend any time in
7 the boiler room?
8 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
9 MS. DIVITA: Object to form.
10 A Yes. Yes. Yes. I took material all
11 over. So I took material in the boiler room.
12 Q Okay. And while you were working in
13 the boiler room, were there other workers working on
14 the boilers?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Did you ever have an opportunity
17 to work around the propulsion turbines?
18 A Anywheres on there I took material,
19 yes.
20 Q Okay. And did you ever see other
21 workers working on those turbines?
664
1 A Oh, yes.
2 Q Did you ever have an opportunity to do
3 any pipe covering near the turbine generators?
4 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
5 Q On the Kitty Hawk?
6 A Yeah. Yes. I took material, like I
7 said before, wherever they were working which,
8 naturally, was on there. Yes, I took material to
9 them.
10 Q Okay. And did you see other workers
11 performing work on those turbine generators?
12 MR. FORER: Objection.
13 A I used to deliver the stuff to them,
14 yes.
15 Q Okay. And Im going to apologize, sir,
16 because I do have some more questions in this vein,
17 but they are going to be very specific. So even
18 though you gave us a general answer about where you
19 were, I am just going to narrow it down to specific
20 areas and pieces of equipment. Okay?
21 MS. DIVITA: Form.
665
1 Q While you were on the Kitty Hawk, did
2 you have an opportunity to do any pipe covering
3 around pumps?
4 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form. Lacks
5 foundation. Leading.
6 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
7 A Yes, naturally, we did work around the
8 pumps.
9 Q Okay. And did you ever see any other
10 workers performing work on pumps?
11 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
12 Leading. Lacks foundation.
13 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
14 A Yes, because I delivered material.
15 Q Okay. All right. Did you ever have an
16 opportunity to work around any of the steering gear?
17 A The steering gear. I am thinking of
18 catapults. I cant recall the steering gear, but if
19 there was — I delivered so many all over that ship,
20 so it would have had to have been.
21 Q Okay. And in addition to delivering
666
1 the product, were you also covering the pipes? It
2 wasnt just dropping the material off, was it?
3 A No. I was there covering, helping
4 cover, yes, because we had a — like if he wanted a
5 45 cut, I had to cut it up for him and, you know,
6 give it to him and then go back up and get some for
7 the next guy.
8 Q Okay. And when you would have to do
9 the cutting, what would you use to cut the material?
10 A What would you use? A little saw,
11 handsaw.
12 Q Okay. Would you ever have to perform
13 any pipe covering in the shaft alley?
14 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
15 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
16 A In the shaft alley? Yes.
17 Q Okay. And were there other workers
18 working in the shaft alley at the same time you were
19 performing pipe covering work?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Would you have an opportunity to
667
1 perform pipe covering on the shafts themselves?
2 MS. DIVITA: Form.
3 A No. No. I didnt work on no shafts,
4 the shaft itself, no. That was — it wasnt nothing
5 to do with no pipe covering.
6 Q Okay. And in addition to the areas
7 that you have spoken about, I have got some more for
8 you.
9 Did you ever perform any pipe covering
10 on the USS Kitty Hawk on or near the forced draft
11 blowers?
12 A I would have been, yes.
13 Q Okay. And were there other people
14 working in that area at the same time?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Would you know if any of those other
17 workers were machinists?
18 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
19 A The machinists? I couldnt tell you
20 who was the machinists on there.
21 Q Okay. Did you ever perform any work on
668
1 the distilling plants on the USS Kitty Hawk?
2 MR. BABULA: Objection. Leading.
3 A I cant recall.
4 Q Okay. Did you ever perform any work on
5 the fuel oil heaters on the USS Kitty Hawk?
6 MS. DIVITA: Form.
7 A We were just working so fast. We were
8 working with everything on there that you could at
9 the time.
10 In other words, I was delivering the
11 material all over the place. I couldnt give you
12 the — you know, if I was right there then on that
13 one.
14 Q Okay. While on the USS Kitty Hawk, did
15 you ever perform any pipe covering near any of the
16 air compressors?
17 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
18 Foundation. Leading.
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And do you know whether or
21 not — do you recall — strike that.
669
1 Do you recall whether or not there were
2 ever any other workers performing work on or around
3 those air compressors?
4 MS. DIVITA: Objection to form.
5 A There was workers all over that ship.
6 MS. DIVITA: Move to strike as
7 nonresponsive.
8 Q Okay. All right, sir. Because of
9 counsels objection, again, I just need you to
10 answer the questions being posed.
11 Do you recall whether or not there were
12 any other workers performing work on the air
13 compressors on the USS Kitty Hawk?
14 MS. DIVITA: Form.
15 A I cant recall if they were working
16 actually on it right at the time, but all around it,
17 yes.
18 MS. DIVITA: Move to strike as
19 nonresponsive.
20 Q All right, sir. Sir, I believe that
21 thats all the questions I have. There may be –
670
1 oh, a couple other ones for you.
2 When you were on the Kitty Hawk, did
3 they provide you with any uniforms?
4 A None.
5 Q Did they provide you with any kind of
6 mask?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Did you ever have an opportunity
9 to change any of your clothes at New York Ship prior
10 to going home?
11 A No. We didnt have no locker or
12 anything there.
13 Q Okay. Anyone at New York Ship ever
14 provide you with any kind of warnings about the
15 materials either you were using or others around you
16 were using?
17 MS. DIVITA: Objection.
18 MR. BABULA: Objection to form.
19 A No warnings.
20 MR. KUZMIN: Okay. Sir, thats all the
21 questions I have. Thank you very much for your
671
1 time.
2 MS. DIVITA: I have like two questions.
3 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at
4 3:05.
5 (Whereupon, brief pause.)
6 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record
7 at 3:06.
8 BY MR. KUZMIN:
9 Q Sir, while working on the Kitty Hawk,
10 do you recall ever working with a gentleman by the
11 name of Malcolm Hagan, H-A-G-A-N?
12 A Not offhand.
13 MR. KUZMIN: Okay. All right. Thats
14 all I have. Thank you very much.
15 RE-EXAMINATION
16 BY MS. DIVITA:
17 Q Hi, sir. Stephanie DiVita again from
18 Pehlivanian Braaten & Pascarella. Just a few brief
19 questions for you.
20 In the boiler room area, there was a
21 lot of different types of equipment; is that
672
1 correct?
2 A Correct.
3 MR. BABULA: Objection. What are we
4 talking about here, the Kitty Hawk?
5 MS. DIVITA: The Kitty Hawk.
6 BY MS. DIVITA:
7 Q Did you understand my question, sir?
8 You were delivering materials all throughout the
9 Kitty Hawk?
10 A Yes.
11 Q You said you delivered material to the
12 boiler room. Were there different types of
13 equipment there?
14 A There was all kinds of equipment going
15 on at the time, yes.
16 Q And there were all different trades
17 there working on all different projects; is that
18 correct?
19 A That is correct.
20 Q And your job was to deliver pipe
21 covering and insulation materials throughout the
673
1 entire vessel; is that correct?
2 A Yes. And help with the main — put it
3 on sometimes, yeah.
4 Q And its my understanding as you sit
5 here today that you cant testify as to whether or
6 not you saw any machinists; is that correct?
7 A There was machinists on there, but I
8 dont know where they particularly were working,
9 thats correct.
10 Q And would it also be fair to say then
11 when Mr. Kuzmin asked you questions as to whether or
12 not you were around pumps, you wouldnt be able to
13 testify exactly what was being done; is that
14 correct?
15 A What was being done on the pumps? That
16 would be correct, I dont know what they were doing
17 on the pump, yes.
18 Q And would you be able to tell me a
19 specific manufacturer of a pump that you believe was
20 on the USS Kitty Hawk?
21 MR. BABULA: Objection.
674
1 A No. I wasnt paying attention too much
2 with what was on the — I was just delivering all
3 the at that time asbestos. And we were doing things
4 so fast, you dont remember what any names were.
5 Q And at the same token then, you
6 wouldnt be able to tell me who the manufacturer of
7 the compressor was either; is that correct?
8 A Of the compressor? Offhand, no.
9 MS. DIVITA: Thank you. I have no
10 further questions.
11 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Is that it?
12 MR. TANKARD: It looks like we are
13 done.
14 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This concludes our
15 video deposition of Mr. George Berglund, Sr. The
16 time is 3:08.
17 (Deposition concluded at 3:08 p.m.)
18
19
20
21
675
1 State of Maryland
2 Harford County
3 I, Denise M. Thomas, a Notary Public of the
4 State of Maryland, Harford County, do hereby
5 certify that the within-named witness personally
6 appeared before me at the time and place herein set
7 out, and after having been first duly sworn by me,
8 according to law, was examined by counsel.
9 I further certify that the examination was
10 recorded stenographically by me and this transcript
11 is a true record of the proceedings.
12 I further certify that I am not of counsel
13 to any of the parties, nor an employee of counsel,
14 nor related to any of the parties, nor in any way
15 interested in the outcome of the action.
16 As witness my hand and seal this 7th day
17 October, 2008.
18
19 Denise M. Thomas
20 My Commission Expires 7-21-10.
21
676
1 INDEX
2 Videotaped Deposition of George J. Berglund, Sr.
3 September 25, 2008
4 Volume II
5
6 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
7 Mr. Babula 376
8 Mr. Forer 451
9 Ms. DiVita 509, 671
10 Ms. Karlovich 569
11 Mr. Gilberti 597
12 Ms. Gursky 615, 644
13 Mr. Iannicelli 627, 645
14 Ms. Wildstein 646
15 Mr. Kuzmin 661
16
17 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
18 2 Certificates of Discharge 372
19
20
21
677
1 ERRATA AND SIGNATURE SHEET
2 I, GEORGE J. BERGLUND, SR., have read
3 the aforegoing and verify the same to be
4 stenographically accurate with the exception of the
5 following changes (if any):
6 Page Line Reads Should Read
7 ____________________________________________________
8 ____________________________________________________
9 ____________________________________________________
10 ____________________________________________________
11 ____________________________________________________
12 ____________________________________________________
13 ____________________________________________________
14 ____________________________________________________
15 ____________________________________________________
16 ____________________________________________________
17 ____________________________________________________
18 ( ) I have no corrections.
19
20 ___________________________
21 Signature of Deponent