Use of Asbestos at NY Shipyard

1
1 GEORGE J. BERGLUND, JR., * SUPERIOR COURT
Individually and as Executor * OF NEW JERSEY
2 of the Estate of CAROL NEAL, * MIDDLESEX COUNTY:
and GEORGE NEAL, Surviving * LAW DIVISION
3 Spouse, *
Plaintiffs * Docket No.
4 v. * L-3292-07
ATLANTIC RICHFIELD COMPANY * Civil Action
5 a/k/a ARCO, et al., * Asbestos Litigation
Defendants *
6 * * * * * * * * * * *
7
8 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF GEORGE J. BERGLUND, SR.
VOLUME I
9
10 The Videotaped Deposition of George J.
11 Berglund, Sr. was taken on Thursday, September 18,
12 2008, commencing at 9:47 a.m. at the Law Office of
13 Waters & Kraus, LLP, 315 North Charles Street,
14 Baltimore, Maryland and was reported by Denise M.
15 Thomas, Notary Public.
16
17
18 EVANS REPORTING SERVICE
Munsey Building
19 7 North Calvert Street
Suite 705
20 Baltimore, Maryland 21202
(410) 727-7100
21

2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 GEORGE TANKARD, ESQUIRE
Waters & Kraus, LLP
3 315 North Charles Street
Baltimore, Maryland 21201
4 410-583-1153
gtankard@waterskraus.com
5 On behalf of the Plaintiffs
6 WILLIAM L. KUZMIN, ESQUIRE
Cohen Placitella & Roth, P.C.
7 127 Maple Avenue
Red Bank, New Jersey 07701
8 732-747-9003
wkuzmin@cprlaw.com
9 On behalf of the Plaintiffs
10 CHRISTOPHER IANNICELLI, ESQUIRE
Morgan, Lewis & Brockius, LLP
11 502 Carnegie Center
Princeton, New Jersey 08540-6241
12 609-919-6623
ciannicelli@morganlewis.com
13 On behalf of the Defendants, Tyco International
(U.S.) Inc., Tyco Values & Controls and Yarway
14 Corporation
15 THOMAS B. MCNULTY, ESQUIRE
McGivney & Kluger, P.C.
16 23 Vreeland Road
Suite 220
17 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932
973-822-1110
18 tmcnulty@mcgivneyandkluger.com
On behalf of the Defendants, A Dover Company,
19 Superior-Lidgerwood-Mundy Corporation and
Leslie Controls, Inc.
20
21

3
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 JOSEPH T. HANLON, ESQUIRE
Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker, LLP
3 33 Washington Street
Newark, New Jersey 07102
4 973-624-0800
hanlonj@wemed.com
5 On behalf of the Defendant, Atlantic Richfield
Company
6
LISA PAM WILDSTEIN, ESQUIRE
7 Segal, McCambridge, Singer & Mahoney
103 Carnegie Center
8 Suite 103
Princeton, New Jersey 08540
9 609-452-1558
lwildstein@smsm.com
10 On behalf of the Defendants, Coltec Industries
and Garlock Sealing Technologies, LLC
11
RYAN M. KOOI, ESQUIRE
12 Margolis Edelstein
Sentry Office Plaza
13 P.O. Box 92222
216 Haddon Avenue
14 Second Floor
Westmont, New Jersey 08108-2886
15 856-869-6733
rkooi@margolisedelstein.com
16 On behalf of the Defendants, John Crane,
Inc.
17
JOSEPH A. GALLO, ESQUIRE
18 Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker, LLP
33 Washington Street
19 Newark, New Jersey 07102
973-624-0800
20 joseph.gallo@wilsonelser.com
On behalf of the Defendants, Warren Pumps, LLC
21 and Carrier Corporation

4
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 CLARE M. MAISANO, ESQUIRE
Evert Weathersby Houff
3 Suntrust Bank Building
120 East Baltimore Street
4 Suite 1300
Baltimore, Maryland 21202
5 443-573-8500
On behalf of the Defendant, Viacom, Inc.,
6 Successor by merger to CBS Corporation, f/k/a
Westinghouse Electric Corporation
7
HELYNA M. HAUSSLER, ESQUIRE
8 Hartel, Kane, DeSantis, MacDonald & Howie, LLP
Capital Office Park
9 6301 Ivy Lane
Suite 800
10 Greenbelt, Maryland 20770
301-486-1200
11 hhaussler@hartelkane.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Crane Co.
12
RICHARD J. KALUZINSKI, ESQUIRE
13 Picillo Caruso Pope Edell Picini, P.C.
60 Route 46 East
14 Fairfield, New Jersey 07004
973-667-6000
15 rkaluzinski@carusopope.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Amchem (Benjamin
16 Foster)
17 THOMAS SWISS, ESQUIRE
Moore & Jackson, LLC
18 305 Washington Avenue
Suite 401
19 Baltimore, Maryland 21204
410-583-5241
20 swiss@moorejackson.com
On behalf of the Defendant, IMO Industries
21

5
1 APPEARANCES, (contd.)
2 HENRY N. WARE, JR., ESQUIRE
Spotts Fain, P.C.
3 411 East Franklin Street
Suite 600
4 Richmond, Virginia 23219
804-697-2090
5 hnware@spottsfain.com
On behalf of the Defendant, Ingersoll Rand
6 Company
7 ALSO PRESENT: Lisa Bauer, Videographer
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21

6
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 * * * * * * *
3 (Whereupon, Berglund Deposition Exhibit
4 Number 1 was marked for identification.)
5 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This video
6 deposition is being taken in accordance with New
7 Jersey rules on September 18th, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. at
8 315 North Charles Street in Baltimore, Maryland.
9 Our court reporter today is Denise
10 Thomas with Evans Reporting. My name is Lisa Bauer
11 with New View Video Services.
12 The caption of the case is George J.
13 Berglund, Jr. as Executor of the Estate of Carol
14 Neal, and George Neal, Surviving Spouse, versus
15 Atlantic Richfield Company, et al., in the Superior
16 Court of New Jersey, Middlesex County: Law
17 Division, Docket Number L-3292-07.
18 Our attorneys have been identified on
19 the written record. Our witness today is George
20 Berglund, Sr. and will now be sworn in by our court
21 reporter.

7
1 Whereupon,
2 GEORGE J. BERGLUND, SR.
3 A witness herein, called for oral
4 examination in the matter pending, being first duly
5 sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
6 but the truth, testified as follows on
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. TANKARD:
9 Q Good morning, Mr. Berglund. How are
10 you?
11 A Good morning.
12 Q Go ahead and tell us your full name for
13 the record.
14 A George John Berglund, Sr.
15 Q And how old are you, sir?
16 A Seventy years old.
17 Q What is your date of birth?
18 A 7-20-38.
19 Q And what is your current marital
20 status?
21 A I am sorry. You know, my hearing

8
1 isnt –
2 Q If at any time you dont hear me, just
3 let me know.
4 A Because I only have hearing in one ear.
5 Q What is your current marital status?
6 A I am not married at this present time.
7 Both wives deceased.
8 Q And at one time, you were married to
9 Carol who was Carol Neal when she passed?
10 A Yes, it was Carol. And her maiden
11 name, Carol Petroski.
12 Q And when did you marry Carol?
13 A I married Carol in August of 1960.
14 Q And how long were you all married?
15 A We were married 27 years.
16 Q And during those years, did you live
17 continuously with her?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And did you and Carol have any children
20 from that marriage?
21 A Yes.

9
1 Q Could you tell us their names and ages?
2 A Three sons, George, Jr., and he is 47;
3 and then we have Walter, 46; and John, 45.
4 Q Any grandchildren?
5 A Yes. George has two, Tyler and Kelsey.
6 Q And, Mr. Berglund, you understand that
7 you are here today –
8 A I am sorry. There is more
9 grandchildren.
10 Q Oh, Im sorry.
11 A John — I always forget John.
12 Q Well, youd get in trouble if somebody
13 saw the tape and you left somebody out, so we dont
14 want to do that.
15 A Yeah. Well, I hardly ever see them, I
16 guess thats why. He has Brett, and then he has
17 Brooke, and the other one is John.
18 Q And, Mr. Berglund, you understand that
19 you are here today to provide testimony related to a
20 legal action that has been filed on behalf of your
21 ex-wife, Carol, correct?

10
1 A Correct. I was subpoenaed to be here,
2 yes.
3 Q Okay. And we have marked as Exhibit
4 Number 1 the deposition notice and the service
5 information relating to todays deposition.
6 Let me ask you, Mr. Berglund, what is
7 your current permanent address?
8 A 40 Park Avenue, Berlin, New Jersey.
9 Q And how long have you lived there?
10 A Twenty years.
11 Q Where were you born, sir?
12 A Philadelphia.
13 Q And where did you grow up?
14 A Philadelphia.
15 Q How long did you go or how far did you
16 go in school?
17 A To the 12th grade.
18 Q And after high school, what did you do?
19 A I got a — I had an uncle that had some
20 pull with Atlantic Refining Company, and he got me
21 into the Merchant Marine division of Atlantic

11
1 Refining Company on Passaynk Avenue, Philadelphia.
2 Q And when was that?
3 A That was in 1956.
4 Q Do you recall what time of the year?
5 A I believe it was in September. Im
6 positive it was in September.
7 Q And what was the business of Atlantic
8 Refinery at that time?
9 A The division I was in was transporting
10 on oil tankers crude oil from Texas, Venezuela,
11 anywhere back to Philadelphia was home port and the
12 refinery.
13 Q And what was your first job or position
14 with Atlantic Refinery?
15 A I was a — started off because I was so
16 young as a mess boy.
17 Q And it might seem kind of silly, but
18 what were your duties or responsibilities as a mess
19 boy?
20 A Helping in the kitchen serving the
21 crew.

12
1 Q And do you recall what vessel you first
2 served on when you started as a mess boy?
3 A SS Atlantic Voyager.
4 Q And what kind of vessel was that?
5 A Steam.
6 Q Okay. It was powered by steam?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Was it an oil tanker?
9 A Well, yes. Every vessel that I sailed
10 on was steam, and it also was an oil tanker.
11 Q And Atlantic Refinery had a fleet of
12 oil tankers as well?
13 A Yes, they did.
14 Q And you served on a number of those
15 tankers?
16 A Yes.
17 Q We will talk about that some more in a
18 few minutes.
19 Can you describe generally what these
20 tankers looked like, how big they were?
21 A They were in the range of 600 feet to

13
1 get up to Delaware. They werent the supertankers.
2 And they were all steam, and they had all the
3 quarters. And the engine room, fireroom, whatever,
4 was all aft, the rear of the ship.
5 Q Okay. And we will talk about that some
6 more also.
7 How long were you a mess boy?
8 A Only a couple trips because then I
9 advanced into a wiper.
10 Q Can you tell us what you did as a
11 wiper?
12 A Maintenance of the engine room, boiler
13 room, anything that needed to be done in there, any
14 work at all.
15 Q And when you say maintenance, would you
16 be involved with repairs?
17 A Repairs, cleanup, anything, even
18 painting, whatever.
19 Q In terms of the –
20 A There was only three of us, so –
21 Q In terms of the hierarchy or totem pole

14
1 at Atlantic Refinery, where did the position of
2 wiper fall?
3 A The lowest.
4 Q You were basically kind of a laborer?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And how long in total did you
7 work for Atlantic Refinery?
8 A Approximately four years.
9 Q And what — do you recall what vessel
10 you served on when you started as a wiper?
11 A I believe it was the R.C. Tuttle.
12 Q And you have now told us about the
13 Tuttle and the Voyager. Can you recall some of the
14 other tankers that you served on over your four
15 years with Atlantic Refinery?
16 A The Seaman, The Navigator, The
17 Engineer, and The Communicator.
18 Q Okay. And as I understand it, three of
19 those vessels were sister ships; is that right?
20 A That is correct.
21 Q Do you recall which of those three

15
1 vessels those were?
2 A The Seaman, The Navigator, and The
3 Engineer.
4 Q And at some point during those four
5 years, were you promoted or did you move on from
6 being a wiper?
7 A Yes. I went to — and you had to have
8 so much sea time to be advanced. And I had the sea
9 time, so I went up to the custom house and got my
10 fireman and boiler and water tender papers.
11 Q And did you have much of a chance to
12 take advantage of those papers?
13 A No. No. They tried to keep me as much
14 as possible being what I was in the wiper because I
15 was like a head for being there so long. And on the
16 ships, I was good in the engine room taking care –
17 helping taking care of everything.
18 And only in the end when they knew I
19 was — after I got married, they tried to put me
20 down as fireman and I was a fireman.
21 Q Okay. So you only actually sailed on

16
1 the vessel as a fireman on a couple of trips; is
2 that right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And other than your first few trips as
5 a mess boy, then almost all of your time with
6 Atlantic Refinery was as a wiper; is that correct?
7 A That is correct.
8 Q When did you stop working for Atlantic
9 Refinery?
10 A In 1960.
11 Q Do you recall what month?
12 A It was right around in October, I
13 believe.
14 Q Okay. And why did you decide to stop
15 working for Atlantic Refinery?
16 A I will say this, I wish I hadnt. I
17 loved that job. But my wife didnt because — after
18 we were going together, she never cared, but when we
19 got married, it was a different ballgame, and she
20 asked me if I would get another job, and I did.
21 Q And the idea was that the job took you

17
1 away from home too much?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. And we will talk about that some
4 more.
5 Where did you next work after finishing
6 up with Atlantic Refinery?
7 A New York Ship.
8 Q Okay. And where was that located?
9 A In Camden, New Jersey.
10 Q And what was their business?
11 A Building ships. At the time, they were
12 building some Navy ships.
13 Q This was a shipyard?
14 A Yes.
15 Q What was your job with New York Ship?
16 A I started out as a pipe coverer with no
17 class, classification, because there were different
18 classifications as a pipe coverer. I was just a
19 laborer for the pipe coverers starting out because
20 it was a union. They had their own union.
21 Q And what was your or what were your

18
1 duties in that role starting out?
2 A They called me a gopher then because I
3 was the one that had to get all the material and cut
4 maybe angles, whatever they needed, and bring it
5 down to the different locations that the class ones
6 was working, like first class, and work with them.
7 Q And did you gain a classification at
8 some point?
9 A Yes. Toward my end of it, I was a — I
10 only made it up to second class.
11 Q And how long in total were you working
12 at New York Ship?
13 A Eight or nine months, I believe.
14 Q And when did you get the upgrade in
15 classification?
16 A Right at the end. It was in — I got
17 laid off on that. They had a layoff.
18 Q And what, if any, change was there in
19 your job duties or responsibilities when you –
20 A Not much at all. I was still the
21 bottom man. I wasnt the first class.

19
1 Q You told us you were a pipe coverer.
2 What was it that you were covering?
3 A All the — well, naturally, it was a
4 new — in the shipyard, it was all new pipe, so we
5 were covering all new pipe, valves. Whatever needed
6 to be covered, we covered it.
7 Q And these were — the pipes were steam
8 pipes, correct?
9 A Yes. There was water pipes. They did
10 both, water and steam.
11 Q Okay. And were you working on any
12 particular vessel during these eight or nine months?
13 A Yes. The Kitty Hawk, aircraft carrier.
14 Q Okay. And that was being built new?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And then when would you have finished
17 with New York Shipyard?
18 A I believe it was in around March or
19 April, if I remember.
20 Q Of 1961?
21 A It was 61, yes.

20
1 Q And then where did you go on to work in
2 the following years?
3 A Acme Markets bakery division in
4 Philadelphia as a driver.
5 Q Okay. And how long did you work for
6 them?
7 A Twenty-seven years.
8 Q So that would have been until 1988?
9 A Yes. Yes, it was 88. I am trying to
10 think of the year.
11 Q And you were a driver for them the
12 entire time?
13 A Yes, I was.
14 Q And did you have any employment
15 thereafter?
16 A Yes. Environmental up at Clean
17 Harbors, environmental.
18 Q And how long did you work for them?
19 A Im still under their umbrella. I am
20 on disability.
21 Q And what is your disability,

21
1 Mr. Berglund?
2 A Sight. I have no vision in one eye and
3 a hearing problem. And I was an equipment
4 operator/driver, and DOT regulations, I cant work.
5 Q When did you go out on disability?
6 A In January of this year. I mean last
7 year.
8 Q Im sorry. I didnt mean to interrupt
9 you.
10 So until just recently, you were
11 working full time as an operator for them?
12 A Yes. Yes, full time.
13 Q And we have to try not to talk at the
14 same time because its going to be very hard –
15 A Okay.
16 Q — for us to be understood and for this
17 to get transcribed. So I will try to wait until you
18 finish what you have to say. And if you could do
19 the same, that will help the process.
20 A Okay. Sorry.
21 Q I want to shift gears here a minute.

22
1 Your ex-wife, Carol, did there come a
2 time when you learned that she had been diagnosed
3 with cancer?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Tell me when that was.
6 A That one there, I dont know the exact
7 date, but it was about — I would say about — she
8 died in April. It was about maybe three months
9 before that. So it was somewhere in the beginning
10 of the year, I believe.
11 Q Okay. If the medical records seem to
12 indicate maybe her diagnosis was in November of 06,
13 does that sound about right?
14 A That would be about right, I guess.
15 Q Okay. And prior to her diagnosis of
16 cancer, had she been having some health problems?
17 A She was in a lot of pain, I know that.
18 I mean, I seen her on a couple occasions, quite a
19 few occasions because we would still maintain a
20 friendship even though she was married and we were
21 divorced.

23
1 Q Well, it took them a while to figure
2 out that she had cancer; is that right?
3 A Yes. My son used to keep telling me –
4 thats how I knew a lot about it because my son,
5 when I talked to him, he would tell me how she was
6 doing and all, and I would ask him, naturally.
7 And I know my daughter-in-law used to
8 be over there and would have to get her pain
9 medicine constantly.
10 Q Okay. And did there come a time where
11 her doctors did a biopsy and discovered that it was
12 cancer?
13 A Well, thats when I really found out
14 what it was, yes.
15 Q And what was your understanding as to
16 the type of cancer that your ex-wife had?
17 A It was from asbestos exposure.
18 Q Do you recall the name of the cancer?
19 A I aint the sharpest knife.
20 Meliophili (phonetic) — I know it begins with an M.
21 Meliophili — whatever it is.

24
1 Q Mesothelioma?
2 A Yeah, thats it.
3 Q Okay. And did you — when you found
4 out of that diagnosis, did you have an understanding
5 as to her prognosis, the likely outcome from the
6 cancer?
7 A There was no cure.
8 Q And then I believe you told us she
9 passed from her cancer in April of 07?
10 A Um-hmm.
11 Q From the time of her diagnosis to the
12 time she passed, did you have an opportunity to see
13 her?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Can — and on about how many occasions?
16 A Oh, a couple times — probably a couple
17 times a month until the end when she didnt want to
18 see anybody. She used to be over my — she didnt
19 live too far from my son and her grandchildren, our
20 grandchildren, and she used to come over there.
21 Q Based on those visits when you saw her,

25
1 can you describe for us her appearance or condition
2 as she appeared to you?
3 A Deteriorating.
4 Q Could you ascertain whether she was in
5 any pain or discomfort?
6 A Constant.
7 Q Was this something difficult for you to
8 witness?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Now, Mr. Berglund, again, what is your
11 understanding as to what caused her cancer?
12 A Exposure to asbestos.
13 Q And looking back on your life with your
14 ex-wife and your life and work activities, did it
15 occur to you when or how or under what circumstances
16 she might have been exposed to asbestos?
17 A Well, at first, I didnt want to think
18 about what it was, but then I knew what it was.
19 Q And what did you –
20 A It was on account of me bringing it
21 home to her.

26
1 Q Okay. Bringing it home from where?
2 A From both jobs, from Atlantic Refining
3 Company and from being a pipe coverer at New York
4 Ship.
5 Q You know, Mr. Berglund, I would like to
6 go back and ask you some very detailed questions
7 about your work history at those two places or for
8 those two companies. We will start with Atlantic
9 Refinery.
10 You have already told us that other
11 than a few weeks at the beginning as a mess boy and
12 a few weeks at the end as a fireman, that all the
13 rest of your service was as a wiper on oil tankers
14 for the Atlantic –
15 A Correct.
16 Q And you also mentioned that there were
17 three sister vessels, correct?
18 A That is correct.
19 Q Was most of your time on those three
20 sister vessels?
21 A Yes.

27
1 Q And what is the significance or what
2 does it mean to be a sister ship or sister vessel?
3 A Everything on that ship — it was built
4 by the same shipyard, and everything on there
5 basically was the same, the same fireroom and the
6 same turbines. Everything is the same.
7 Q So the design is the same?
8 A Design was the same, yes.
9 Q Is it outfitted or equipped with the
10 same things?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And I may have asked you this. I am
13 not sure. What was the size of these tankers?
14 A They were approximately 600 and some
15 odd feet. I couldnt give you the exact.
16 Q And as a wiper, where were you working
17 on the tankers?
18 A I was always working in the engine
19 room, fireroom.
20 Q And how was the engine room and
21 fireroom configured?

28
1 A Very condensed, very small.
2 Q Were they –
3 A Pipes and — Im sorry.
4 Q Were those two rooms separated by
5 anything, any kind of wall or bulkhead or anything?
6 A You had a little half of a bulkhead in
7 between that and where the turbines was, but you –
8 it was as big as this room. The air, it would go
9 right through.
10 Q Okay. And you may have told us, but
11 what portion of the vessel was that located on?
12 A The rear, the aft.
13 Q Okay. And this was all below deck?
14 A Everything, yes, was — all that was
15 below deck.
16 Q Okay. And you were starting to tell me
17 a little bit about that space and this area where
18 you worked. Was there a lot of room or was that
19 crowded or can you tell us a little about that?
20 A No. It was just miles of pipe, piping
21 all over, and there was — because everything was

29
1 condensed in a small area so they could have the
2 tanks, naturally, to move more oil.
3 Q So there wasnt a whole lot of room to
4 move around?
5 A Not at all.
6 Q Okay. And when you were working as a
7 wiper, were you part of a crew, typically?
8 A Yes. It was three of us. And then out
9 of that three, one would be called the bull wiper.
10 And he would go to the first assistant engineer in
11 the morning and get our task for the day. And
12 then — and we might be working with a pump man or
13 we might be working with an engineer on repairs.
14 Q And can you describe for us a little
15 bit what that work environment was like? Was it
16 noisy or quiet?
17 A It was very noisy and very dusty.
18 Q Okay. Was it dirty or clean?
19 A Dirty. They didnt have no — them
20 ships did not have any air conditioning or anything.
21 What you had was a little bit of ventilation system

30
1 from what — the scoops from on deck, and that was
2 all you had.
3 Q Okay. So how was the ventilation,
4 given what you just told us?
5 A Well, when you get out in the Gulf of
6 Mexico or somewhere, its not too much.
7 Q And I gather that part of your job was
8 to try to keep this area clean?
9 A Yes.
10 Q But I also gather that was tough to do
11 that?
12 A Very.
13 Q Now, did you consider this space now
14 where you were working, did you consider it a
15 dangerous place?
16 A Very.
17 Q And why is that?
18 A Mainly slips and falls and, also, the
19 steam you had to worry about. If a gasket blew on
20 one of the steam lines, you might not see it.
21 Hopefully you would hear it.

31
1 Q So you had to know what you were doing
2 or you might not survive?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, we are going to talk about a lot
5 of the equipment that you worked with down there,
6 but did you work with or around boilers?
7 A Yes, every day.
8 Q Okay. And on these vessels, these
9 tankers that you worked on, what was the function of
10 the boilers?
11 A To produce the steam to run the turbine
12 which turned the shaft of the ship.
13 Q Okay. And if the boiler is not
14 functioning, nothing is going to work on the ship?
15 A Nothing. Everything on the ship mostly
16 was run by steam because of no spark.
17 Q And what was the importance or why was
18 it important that there be no sparks?
19 A Fumes because of what we were doing.
20 If they were loading or unloading the tanker, you
21 got a lot of fumes.

32
1 Q Because its fuel oil?
2 A It was very dangerous, yes.
3 Q Okay. In fact, if the boilers arent
4 operating, the vessel is not going to go at all,
5 correct?
6 A Exactly.
7 Q Can you explain a little bit what your
8 schedule was in terms of being in home port and out
9 to sea?
10 A The scheduling — time scheduling, how
11 long it took?
12 Q Lets start with that, sure.
13 A Okay. We would be only in port for
14 approximately 18 hours, and then we would be at sea.
15 Round trip would be 14 days, and I would be back in
16 Philadelphia.
17 Q Okay. And these 14 days, that was the
18 time it took you to go get the oil wherever it was
19 and bring it back to Philadelphia?
20 A Correct.
21 Q And during that time, were you on the

33
1 vessel the entire time?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And you wouldnt stop anyplace other
4 than to get the oil?
5 A No.
6 Q Would you get off the vessel when you
7 were getting the oil?
8 A If it was during when I was — working
9 hours, no.
10 Q And what was your — what did you
11 normally work during the day? What hours?
12 A From 8:00 to about 4:00 and sometimes a
13 little later.
14 Q And in addition to these two-week runs
15 where you are picking up and bringing oil back, were
16 there occasions where you worked on the vessel when
17 it was being overhauled?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Can you explain to us, first of all,
20 basically what that is?
21 A Well, they used to go in the shipyard

34
1 to get inspection. And we would be in there
2 approximately a month.
3 Q And they actually take the vessel out
4 of water and put it in drydock, correct?
5 A Correct.
6 Q And the purpose of this is to do major
7 renovation or repairs on the vessel?
8 A Correct.
9 Q What was your involvement in the repair
10 process? What did you do when the vessel was in
11 drydock for overhauls?
12 A As a wiper, you still had to work and
13 you still — I had to tear — well, while the ship
14 was down, the boilers, you had to do a lot of
15 repairs on different lines that you couldnt do at
16 sea. So the shipyard did some, but you had to do a
17 lot of it, too, and then cleanup also.
18 Q And during the month or so that the
19 vessel would be in for this overhaul, what was your
20 work schedule like? How many hours and how many
21 days a week were you working?

35
1 A There was times when you would work the
2 same — the hours were the same, but there was
3 overtime. If you had a particular job that was big
4 and we would go after it, we would work overtime on
5 it. But the shipyard worked 24 hours with a gang of
6 guys all the time in there.
7 Q And why was that? Why was this
8 intensive effort being made?
9 A Because they had to hurry up and get it
10 done in a short length of time.
11 Q Because they wanted to get the ship
12 back in service?
13 A Yes. Anything that needed to be done.
14 Q And how much of your time, your eight
15 or nine-hour day would be spent doing repairs on
16 equipment in this space during the overhauls?
17 A All the time.
18 Q How would that compare to when you were
19 at sea? Did you have any involvement with repairing
20 equipment when you were out at sea on these 14-day
21 cruises?

36
1 A That was part of my job, that and
2 cleanup.
3 Q And how much — can you give us some
4 idea of how much of your time would be spent on that
5 when you were out at sea, doing repairs and cleanup?
6 A All the time that I was on board there,
7 yes.
8 Q Okay. I would like to go through and
9 talk about some of the types of equipment that you
10 worked with making repairs.
11 We talked about steam and we talked
12 about steam pipes. Did you have any involvement
13 with working on the steam pipes in terms of doing
14 repair or maintenance on these oil tankers?
15 A Yes, because like anything else, we
16 were always blowing gaskets, valves, leaking, things
17 like that where you had to go and break around them
18 and then — and repair back whatever was leaking.
19 Q And what is the temperature of the
20 steam in these pipes?
21 A Very, very hot. Some of it is 900

37
1 degrees.
2 Q And what about the pressure?
3 A Pressure, tremendous. Pressure at
4 different spots was more than others, especially in
5 the turbine area.
6 Q And as a result of that, these pipes
7 had to be insulated?
8 A Oh, yes, insulated, and gaskets was a
9 big thing, too.
10 Q Okay. We will talk about that.
11 But what was the purpose of the
12 insulation?
13 A To keep the steam — keep it hot. It
14 wasnt for your protection, thats for sure. They
15 didnt care about that. But it was to keep the
16 pipes hot inside.
17 Q And were there different types of
18 insulation on the pipes?
19 A All of it was asbestos on the steam
20 pipes.
21 Q And how did you know it was asbestos?

38
1 A It said it on the boxes when you took
2 it in the storeroom.
3 Q And, typically, when would you be
4 called upon to do anything with the insulation on
5 the steam pipe?
6 A It was just about my chore every day
7 would be working on them and, also, clean up the
8 mess from it. If you might be doing a job up top
9 and it goes down, you break it off with a hammer,
10 whatever, (indicating), and this stuff will fall
11 down, and you have to clean it all off the other
12 pipes, and it would be all over your clothes.
13 Q Okay. Before you could work on a piece
14 of equipment like a pump or a valve like you have
15 been telling us, would you have to disengage it from
16 the steam pipes?
17 MR. MCNULTY: Object to form.
18 A Yes.
19 Q Well, let me ask you this. What would
20 you have to do before you could work on a given
21 piece of equipment relative to the steam pipes?

39
1 A Well, you would have to break all the
2 insulation around it.
3 Q And was that a part of your job duties?
4 A Yes, it was.
5 Q And how often would you do that?
6 A We did — I would say at any given day,
7 we did a couple of those. I mean, there was so many
8 valves, and we did loads of valves all the time,
9 constantly. That was the main job.
10 Q Can you tell us a little bit what this
11 insulation material that covered the pipes, what it
12 looked like?
13 A Well, in the ship, it was white with a
14 dark gray kind of soot on top of it, naturally. And
15 thats what it looked like when you would break –
16 but it was very brittly, and it would be — the
17 fibers would go everywhere.
18 Q But what kind of form did it come in?
19 A A hard form, very hard.
20 Q Okay. Can you describe that for us?
21 A The ones on the — because the steam –

40
1 steam made everything it seemed like more harder
2 than what it was before you put it on there. And
3 you would break it off, and it would be all over.
4 Q Well, did some of the insulation come
5 in pieces that fit around the pipe?
6 A Oh, you are talking about the new
7 insulation now? I am still talking about the old.
8 Q Im sorry. I wasnt clear with my
9 question.
10 A New insulation, yes, you would have to
11 see what you needed, and all of it wasnt — some of
12 it was prefitted. But on a ship, you couldnt go to
13 a store and get some if you didnt have it, so you
14 had to make — so a lot of it was in the bags where
15 I would mix it up, asbestos, especially some valves
16 was coated with it.
17 They did have originally, some of them
18 had some covers, but then they burn up so bad that
19 you had to make something.
20 Q So in addition to the preformed pipe,
21 there was something in a bag that you mixed up? Was

41
1 this powder form?
2 A Yes. It was the asbestos fibers, you
3 mixed it with water just like you do concrete.
4 Sometimes it would only be a bucketful, and other
5 times it would be a lot more.
6 Q And is that something you had to
7 sometimes put on the equipment itself?
8 A Yes. Yes. That was the purpose of it.
9 Q And you told us that this insulation
10 material contained asbestos. Do you have an
11 understanding of why it contained asbestos?
12 A Yes. It was on the packages. This
13 stuff that I was talking about came in bags. It
14 looked like — like concrete comes in.
15 Q And in order to, lets say, repair the
16 boilers on the ship, would you have to disengage the
17 pipes leading to the boilers?
18 A The boiler work, a lot of it was done
19 in the shipyard. We tore it apart. But pipes going
20 around the boiler, yes, we did. But not directly on
21 a boiler itself.

42
1 In other words, if its a live steam
2 pipe, the boiler had to keep running. We would do
3 some repairs. Say lots of times the vibration of
4 the ship would shake a lot of that off around the
5 boiler, and we would have to repair that and put it
6 back on.
7 Q Lets try to get a little bit more
8 specific, Mr. Berglund, so you can give us an idea
9 of what you were doing. You said you did work on a
10 lot of valves. Can you kind of take us through the
11 process of what you would have to do to repair a
12 valve on one of these oil tankers that you were
13 serving on?
14 A Yes. Most of them were four-bolt to
15 six-bolt valves, the steam valve. And you would –
16 after you took them off, you had a gasket on there
17 which wouldnt come off because on account of the
18 heat from the steam. But, first of all, you had to
19 make sure it was cooled down enough to work on it.
20 That was the main thing before you did it.
21 Q And once it was cooled down, did you

43
1 have to remove any insulation before you start?
2 A Yes. What you do, after you removed
3 the outside insulation and you broke the bolts and
4 took it off, you had a gasket would be frozen on
5 there. I call it frozen on. And you would have to
6 take a putty knife or whatever and scrape it off the
7 best you can. And that used to go all over you,
8 too.
9 Q Okay.
10 A Then you had to take a wire brush and
11 finish it off.
12 Q Okay. Well, lets go back a step. In
13 taking the — knocking or taking the insulation off
14 of the pipe leading to the valve, what — is there
15 any kind of tool you used to do that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q What did you use?
18 A You had a scraper.
19 Q Okay. This is to get the –
20 A Thats just to get the hard stuff off.
21 And then I would use the, like I said, the wire

44
1 brush.
2 Q I think you misheard my question. I
3 was asking before you got to the gaskets, when you
4 have to take — when you have to break apart the
5 line and take the valve off.
6 A Yeah. Right. But I did tell you I had
7 to take insulation off first after it cooled down.
8 Q Okay.
9 A And then get into it with the bolts,
10 yes.
11 Q Right. And maybe I asked a bad
12 question. Im sorry.
13 I wanted you to tell us what you used
14 to get the insulation off.
15 A With a hammer or whatever you had.
16 Most of the time a hammer. And sometimes I had what
17 they call a chipping hammer. And you would take the
18 chipping hammer because it had a sharp edge and you
19 bust it up.
20 You try to get where sometimes you
21 could fit other — because it was small — you have

45
1 got to picture, these are small areas sometimes.
2 You are like — you might have another pipe butting
3 up against it. So you can only take so much off of
4 there sometimes.
5 You couldnt take a whole length which
6 would make it so much easier to go up and just get a
7 whole another length and stick it on. You had to go
8 and cut it to that dimension and then go up and cut
9 the other piece off to that and put it on.
10 Q And, typically, about how much would
11 you have to take off?
12 A Well, again, I will say — like I said,
13 its according to how the other pipes was running up
14 against it. It might be a foot, it might be only
15 six inches. But the valves, a lot of times the
16 valves themselves was covered with it.
17 Q Okay. And what would happen when you
18 took your hammer or whatever you were using and
19 knocked this insulation off?
20 A It would get all over you.
21 Q What would get all over you?

46
1 A All the — whatever you — the
2 fiberglass — I mean — fiberglass. The fibers from
3 the asbestos.
4 Q Okay. Could you see anything in the
5 air when you did this?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What did you see?
8 A I guess you seen the dust and all from
9 it. And I will stress that I did not have no
10 coveralls. They never issued me no coveralls or
11 anything because back then — and thats the way it
12 was. And you didnt have no masks either. There
13 was no such thing as a dust mask.
14 Q No respiratory protection?
15 A No, nothing like that.
16 Q Any goggles?
17 A No, nothing.
18 Q Okay. And this dust from breaking off
19 the insulation, sir, where did that dust go?
20 A Airborne.
21 Q Okay.

47
1 A All over your clothes, all over your
2 hair. And then you still had to clean it up after
3 it went down on the deck.
4 Q Okay. Well, that would be kind of at
5 the end when you finished the whole job?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And was there any way to avoid
8 breathing this dust?
9 A No, none.
10 Q Okay. Now I would like to kind of go
11 back to where we were before I backed you up. You
12 have taken the valve, broken it out from the flange
13 of the pipe. You were explaining to us that you had
14 to scrape out a gasket, correct?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Okay. And just real basically, what is
17 a gasket?
18 A A gasket is a seal between the two
19 flanges.
20 Q And kind of like maybe a washer and two
21 pieces of garden hose?

48
1 A Correct.
2 Q Its there to create a seal?
3 A Correct.
4 Q And when you broke these — broke the
5 pipe away from the valve, what was typically the
6 condition of the gasket on the flange surface?
7 A Brittle and hard. And it would harden
8 up against the surface of the flange.
9 Q And why was that?
10 A On account of the heat.
11 Q The heat and the steam?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And you were telling us a little bit.
14 What did you have to do to clean that off the flange
15 surface?
16 A You had to try to scrape it the best
17 you could and also get a wire brush and clean it up.
18 Q What did you use to scrape it?
19 A A putty knife, knife, anything you
20 could to try to get it. Sometimes it was pretty
21 tough to get off.

49
1 Q And did you have to be careful as you
2 are cleaning this gasket material off?
3 A Not to mess up the surface, yes.
4 Q What would be the problem if you did
5 that?
6 A Because then you could have a leak
7 instead of steam.
8 Q And sort of in a similar vein, why was
9 it important to get all that gasket material off?
10 A So when you put your new gasket on, it
11 was sealed.
12 Q All right. Now that you have opened up
13 the pipe, you have gotten the gasket clean, what
14 would you do with the valve itself, if anything?
15 A Well, we didnt have a lot of
16 replacement valves, so if you could, you would tear
17 it apart and rebuild it.
18 Q Okay. Is that something that you would
19 do?
20 A Yes, we would.
21 Q How often would you do that,

50
1 Mr. Berglund?
2 A As many valves as we took out, which
3 was usually a couple a day or more. On any given
4 day, it was constant with valves, all the time.
5 Q And before I forget, let me go back and
6 ask you about the gasket removal process. What
7 would happen when you scraped those gaskets and used
8 the wire brush to clean that surface off?
9 A That was a real dusty mess. It would
10 get all over you.
11 Q You would see dust in the air?
12 A Dust in the air, dust on your clothes,
13 yes, because that was really –
14 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
15 Q Okay.
16 A Because it was finer than the other.
17 In other words, it was like a powder by
18 the time you got it off. It was like somebody put
19 powder on you.
20 Q And just so its clear, where would
21 that dust go?

51
1 A All over, airborne, on your clothes, in
2 the air.
3 Q Was there any way to avoid breathing
4 that dust?
5 A No way. As I said before, there was no
6 dust masks.
7 Q Okay. In terms of rebuilding the
8 valve, I was asking you how often you did that. Can
9 you give us any idea?
10 A We did quite a few of them a day, quite
11 a few of them.
12 Q Okay. And what would that involve?
13 A That would involve taking the packing,
14 that off lots of times and taking the packing out of
15 the valve and then take the bonnet off the top and
16 maybe put new seals inside the valve. They had,
17 like, these on the clappers is what I used to call
18 them, (indicating).
19 Q Were there gaskets like you described
20 earlier that were internal within the valves?
21 A There was some, yes.

52
1 Q Okay. Did you have to work with those?
2 A Oh, yes. Yes.
3 Q On how many occasions?
4 A On — again, maybe a couple a day or
5 better.
6 Q And would the same kind of conditions
7 be created when you had to work with those gaskets?
8 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
9 Q You can go ahead.
10 A Yes, it would be because the same
11 conditions it would be. You would be in still an
12 enclosed area. I mean, there was no getting around
13 where I was at.
14 In other words, they had what they
15 called a little machine shop. And you would take
16 them in this machine shop and work on them.
17 Q Okay. Well, were those gaskets in the
18 same kind of condition as the other gaskets you
19 described for us that were in the flanged surfaces?
20 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
21 A Yes.

53
1 Q And what condition was that?
2 A Very — it would be frozen to the sides
3 of the clappers, and, also, the packing would be –
4 we had to take out the packing also.
5 Q Okay. And when you took out the
6 internal gaskets in the valve, what would happen
7 when you cleaned them?
8 A Well, you would clean them on a bench,
9 and you would get the same — you know, the dust.
10 Q Where would that dust go?
11 A The dust would go airborne and on my
12 clothes.
13 Q Okay. Did you have any understanding
14 as to whether these gaskets contained any asbestos?
15 A Yes, because it was in the steam. They
16 were definitely asbestos, yes.
17 Q You were telling us about packing.
18 What is the function of packing on a valve?
19 A To keep a seal around the stem of the
20 valve.
21 Q And why would you have to change out

54
1 the packing when you were doing a valve repair job?
2 A Because on account of the steam, it
3 would get very brittle, and then it would start to
4 blow steam out of it.
5 Q Okay. Would it get dried out and
6 brittle kind of like the gasket material?
7 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
8 A Yes.
9 Q Well, tell me — describe for me what
10 the packing material — what condition you would
11 typically find that in when you are doing a valve
12 repair job.
13 A Very hard and brittle, the packing
14 itself, yes.
15 Q And what kind of tool did you use to
16 change out the old packing?
17 A Well, if you were lucky trying to get
18 it out, which you werent all the time, was you
19 would have like a corkscrew, but that didnt always
20 work. So what you had to do is get something, like
21 one of them with a hook on the end of it and try to

55
1 hook most of it out.
2 And then what you did, since you were
3 already in the machine shop, you could get — there
4 was air, access to air. And you would try to — the
5 fibers that were still in there, you would blow it
6 out, and that would blow all over you.
7 Q Okay. And this packing material, what
8 color was it?
9 A Black.
10 Q Okay. That would blow all over you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Where would it go? Your clothes?
13 A It would get all over your clothes and
14 airborne.
15 Q Was there any way to avoid breathing
16 that?
17 A No.
18 Q And is that something you had to do
19 with every valve job, replace the packing?
20 A We did a lot of packings, a very — a
21 tremendous amount of that, yes.

56
1 Q Did you have any understanding as to
2 whether the packing contained asbestos?
3 A Yes. It came in a roll, and it was
4 asbestos packing.
5 Q Okay. After you have gotten the valve
6 rebuilt and repacked, then what do you have to do?
7 A Put it back on and then replace what we
8 took off as far as the cover, any of the insulation.
9 Q Okay. Did you usually test the valve
10 before you –
11 A You did test it, yes, before we –
12 after we buttoned it up, you would put steam on –
13 you know, on it. Especially if you had to put
14 covering on that valve, then you definitely would do
15 it first.
16 Q And what covering would you have to put
17 on valves?
18 A Asbestos.
19 Q Okay. Can you describe what kind of
20 covering that would be?
21 A Some of it came in sections which you

57
1 would cut off to put around. It was prefitted for a
2 pipe. But the majority of the time, you werent
3 that lucky. And then you had the stuff that you
4 mixed up out of the bag.
5 Q Okay. And this is –
6 A And you would mud it. I used to call
7 it mudding. Im sorry. I interrupted.
8 Q Okay. And so this would be the same
9 type of material that you would have been using on
10 pipes, correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q Okay. And when you went to put this
13 material on the valve itself, what kind of
14 conditions would be created?
15 A Very dusty, especially when you are
16 mixing this up.
17 In other words, you figure how concrete
18 or anything is, you have it in a bucket, then you
19 get water and you pour the water in there, and you
20 have got the dust comes up, (indicating).
21 Q And where does the dust go?

58
1 A The dust goes all over you and all over
2 everything else.
3 Q All over your clothes?
4 A Yes, airborne.
5 Q And were there occasions where you
6 would have to cut or saw pieces of the preformed
7 insulation to put back over a valve?
8 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
9 A Yes. Like I stated before, you had
10 some areas where you couldnt put a whole length,
11 naturally, on there, so you had to cut pieces to
12 make it fit.
13 Q Okay. And what would happen when you
14 cut the pieces of insulation?
15 A They would be all over you, too,
16 because you would be sawing it, and that would be
17 airborne.
18 Q Okay. That would be dust as well?
19 A Dust, yes.
20 Q Okay. And then once youve got the
21 valve itself re-insulated, do you have to put

59
1 insulation on the pieces of pipe again?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. And is that the same process you
4 described before?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Okay. And whats it like when you put
7 that replacement insulation on the piping?
8 A Well, you would still have to make
9 it — you might cut a piece up where you pulled it
10 out at to fit, but when you get it there, you might
11 have to notch a lot of it out.
12 In other words, then that fibers would
13 come all over you.
14 Q Okay. This was a dusty process also?
15 A Oh, yeah.
16 Q And where would that dust go?
17 A All over you.
18 Q Okay. All over your clothes?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And once you have got the whole job
21 finished, what is the last thing you had to do in

60
1 repairing these valves?
2 A After the last job, make sure it didnt
3 leak.
4 Q Well, as a wiper on these oil
5 tankers –
6 A And clean up — Im sorry. Clean up
7 the mess on the bottom or wherever it went.
8 Q Okay. And how would you go about doing
9 that?
10 A Well, its according to if it was high,
11 we could see — some of this stuff is three stories
12 high you were working on. And you had to go — its
13 just a jungle of pipes and everything. So a lot of
14 it falls down on the other pipes, which you might
15 have to clean the pipe.
16 We try to maintain — everything had to
17 be — Atlantic was very strict about everything.
18 They liked a clean ship because they would check it
19 out once in a while. And we would have to dust all
20 that off and hopefully keep on going down to the
21 bottom rather than another pipe. So you had to do

61
1 that first.
2 We didnt have no vacuums back then
3 for — to vacuum anything. And you couldnt do it,
4 like, two stories up anyway.
5 Q So what were you using to brush the
6 dust off?
7 A Just a dust brush.
8 Q Okay. And then as you are kind of
9 working your way down, I guess it ultimately gets to
10 the bottom of the deck?
11 A It gets to the bottom, on the bottom
12 floor plates, and you would clean it up off of that.
13 Q And how would you clean it up?
14 A You would sweep it up and put it into a
15 bucket and take it to the trash.
16 Q And as you are doing this, what is
17 happening? What kind of conditions are created?
18 A Well, you created dust. Everything you
19 do in there, you create dust.
20 Q Okay. And where would that dust go?
21 A The dust would go all over you and all

62
1 over in the air, and then youd be cleaning it up
2 again.
3 Q On your clothes?
4 A On my clothes.
5 Q Okay. Now, Mr. Berglund, I know its
6 been a long time ago since you worked on these
7 vessels, but can you tell us any of the brand names
8 or manufacturers of any of the valves that you had
9 to repair using the process that youve just
10 described for us?
11 A Yes, quite a few of them because there
12 was many valves on the ships, many valves. Because
13 they had their logo, a lot of them on the side of
14 the valve you are working on, so you are looking at
15 it constantly.
16 Yarway was one of them and then Falcon.
17 It was Coates-Falcon is it? And then there was
18 Crane. That was a lot of — a lot of Crane valves.
19 Leslie. And I think the other ones was a lot of –
20 quite a few of them was Foster.
21 Q Okay. And you mentioned that there

63
1 were a lot of valves on the ship. Can you give us
2 any idea of the total valves?
3 A There was probably a lot more that I
4 didnt mention even, you know, oddball valves. I
5 dont know which — you know. But thats the ones I
6 remember seeing because a lot of them had — I
7 worked with them a lot.
8 Q Okay. So you believe there may have
9 been other manufacturers of valves, but these are
10 the ones you remember?
11 A Oh, yes. I know there had to be.
12 Q Okay. And why is it that you believe
13 you remember these particular –
14 A Because, again, it was stamped right on
15 the plates, a lot of them, the valve.
16 Q And these would have been the ones you
17 worked with the most?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. Just to give us some idea, how
20 many total valves are on one of these oil tankers in
21 this combined space down there, the engine room and

64
1 the fireroom?
2 A On the miles and miles of pipe down
3 there, hundreds and hundreds of them.
4 Can I go back to what you were saying
5 about why you remember on something like that?
6 Because a lot of the valves you are taking off and
7 you are taking it apart and you are taking it up
8 there and you are looking at it all the time. Its
9 not something I am just working with for a few days.
10 In other words, I worked with these for
11 years. And thats a lot to do with why I remember
12 some of this stuff.
13 Q And on a daily basis for years?
14 A Yes. And another reason why I remember
15 a lot of stuff with Atlantic is because I loved that
16 job. And when you love something, you remember a
17 lot about it.
18 Q All right. On any of these valves that
19 you worked with, did you see any type of warning
20 warning you about using asbestos with the valves
21 might create some health hazard to you?

65
1 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
2 A No, I did not. I wish there was.
3 Q No skull and crossbones, no kind of
4 symbol, nothing?
5 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
6 A Not even on the boxes or the bags –
7 Q Okay. Was there anything –
8 A — of the stuff I used.
9 Q Was there anything on the valves or
10 their associated packaging warning you that you
11 needed to be careful with your clothing or not take
12 your clothing home with you in a dirty fashion?
13 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
14 Q You can go ahead and answer.
15 A No, nothing at all saying — because
16 they didnt give us no uniforms. We had to have our
17 clothes. We had no choice.
18 Q Okay. And we will talk some more about
19 that.
20 But there was — my question to you,
21 was there anything warning you that you needed to

66
1 change your clothes before you left?
2 A No. There was no safety — nothing to
3 do with safety about that.
4 Q Okay. But my question was specifically
5 whether there was anything on the valve or any of
6 the associated packaging warning you about that.
7 A Nothing at all.
8 MR. MCNULTY: Just note my objection to
9 the last two questions.
10 Q If there had been some kind of warning
11 saying that this asbestos dust can be hazardous and
12 you need to be careful how you handle it, what would
13 you have done?
14 MR. MCNULTY: Object to the form.
15 MR. GALLO: Objection.
16 MR. WARE: Objection.
17 A I wouldnt have been working with it.
18 Wouldnt anybody work with something if it knows it
19 was going to be harmful that bad.
20 MR. SWISS: Move to strike.
21 Q Mr. Berglund, the gaskets that you

67
1 describe working with in this process in the valves,
2 do you recall the brand names or manufacturers of
3 any — of the gaskets?
4 A Yes. Garlock I believe one was, and
5 there was another one was John Crane. That was it,
6 John Crane.
7 Q And how frequently would you work with
8 these gaskets?
9 A Every time I did a valve, did take one
10 of these valves off, you would work with them. As a
11 matter of fact, you did a lot of work with gaskets
12 even on just flanges. There was a lot of flanges to
13 connect the different pipes together. And a lot of
14 them used to leak or blow, and then you would have
15 to repair those.
16 Q Okay. So even if there wasnt an
17 associated piece of equipment, the lines themselves
18 might spring a leak that would require you changing
19 a gasket?
20 A Correct.
21 Q How often would you have to change a

68
1 gasket either associated with equipment or just the
2 steam line?
3 A Well, you did a couple valves a day,
4 you had eight gaskets there, but — you know,
5 approximately on the valves. But you had a lot of
6 gaskets, like — I will stress again, I would say
7 about three or four a day of just replacing gaskets
8 on — it could be on a pump and it could be on a
9 line.
10 Q Okay. And any time you changed out a
11 piece of equipment and took it out of line, you
12 would have to replace the gaskets, correct?
13 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
14 A Correct.
15 Q Well, what would be required for any
16 piece of equipment that you took out of service out
17 of the line before you could put it back into
18 service?
19 A Put a gasket in.
20 Q And would the conditions be — that
21 would be created the same that you described for us

69
1 when you were talking about replacing a valve?
2 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
3 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
4 A Correct.
5 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Mr. Tankard, I
6 need to stop and change the tape.
7 MR. TANKARD: Okay.
8 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
9 number 1 of our deposition. The time is 10:43.
10 (Whereupon, recess taken — 10:43 a.m.)
11 (Whereupon, after recess — 11:02 a.m.)
12 MR. TANKARD: Before we get started
13 again, Crane Co.s counsel has called. For some
14 reason, they werent able to be here at the start of
15 the deposition. And we have tried to accommodate
16 them by setting up telephone access, but,
17 apparently, we have not been able to make that
18 happen. But we made our best faith effort to try to
19 accommodate them.
20 MR. KUZMIN: And they were properly
21 noticed of this deposition.

70
1 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
2 number 2 of our deposition of Mr. Berglund. The
3 time is 11:03.
4 BY MR. TANKARD:
5 Q Before we broke, Mr. Berglund, I think
6 you were telling us or we were discussing multiple
7 situations that would require you to change out
8 gaskets, replace old gaskets with new gaskets. And
9 my question to you was, essentially, each time you
10 had to do that, what type of conditions would result
11 or be created?
12 A It would be very — like the rest of
13 them, very dusty. They were small areas working,
14 and it would be this — and would get all over your
15 clothes.
16 Q Okay. Now, in any of the gaskets that
17 you worked with, was there any sort of warning on
18 the gaskets as to them being hazardous because they
19 contained asbestos and might be a health problem?
20 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
21 A None.

71
1 Q Anything on any of those gaskets
2 telling you you need to be careful about getting
3 that material on your clothing and not bringing that
4 clothing home?
5 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
6 A No.
7 Q If there had been a warning like that,
8 what would you have done?
9 MR. KOOI: Objection.
10 A Well, I was hoping I would have had
11 protection, protection as far as clothing and
12 whatever to use it, but I wouldnt have been
13 handling it without protection.
14 Q In terms of the packing and the process
15 that you described for us when we were talking about
16 changing a valve, do you know the manufacturers or
17 name brands of any of the packing, for any of the
18 packing?
19 A Yes. Garlock and John Crane.
20 Q So it was the same as for the gaskets?
21 A Yes.

72
1 Q Okay. And, similarly, on any of the
2 packing material, was there any type of warning that
3 using that material could be hazardous to your
4 health because of it containing asbestos?
5 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
6 MR. KOOI: Objection.
7 A No.
8 Q And any warning of any type that you
9 had to be careful with it being on your clothing and
10 handling your clothing thereafter?
11 MR. KOOI: Objection.
12 A No.
13 Q And, again, if there had been something
14 like that, some kind of warning or notice of that
15 sort of hazard, what would you have done?
16 MR. KOOI: Objection.
17 A I wouldnt have handled it.
18 Q Now, the insulation that you used, the
19 preformed block insulation, do you know the name
20 brand or manufacturer of any of the block insulation
21 that you used?

73
1 A You are talking about the prefitted and
2 everything, the pipe and all?
3 Q Yes.
4 A Kaylo and John-Mansville.
5 Q Okay. And how did you know that those
6 were the brands you were using?
7 A It was stamped on the boxes. I used to
8 load all the stores on the ship. That was one of
9 our jobs, too. We had a storeroom. Because it was
10 a refinery, and they had the regular warehouse. And
11 we would get our stuff from the warehouse.
12 In other words, it was the same stuff
13 that the refinery used.
14 Q On the insulation or any of its
15 packaging, was there any warning telling you about
16 the hazards of asbestos or the dust that was created
17 from the use of those products?
18 A None.
19 Q Okay. Any warning on any of that
20 insulation or the packaging that you needed to be
21 careful in handling your clothing, and if your

74
1 clothing got dirty, that you needed to be careful
2 about not taking that home?
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Again, what, if anything, would
5 you have done if you had gotten that kind of warning
6 or notice of that type of danger?
7 A I would not have handled it, especially
8 without anything of protection.
9 Q And in terms of the valves that you
10 repaired, can you give us an idea of how many of
11 those kind of jobs, those valve repair jobs that
12 youve described in some detail that you would have
13 done on an average day when the vessel was in
14 drydock for the major overhaul and repairs?
15 A Oh, we would have done about a half a
16 dozen or so easy on it, or better.
17 Q Okay. And what about on an average or
18 typical day when you were out at sea?
19 A About two of them or two or — I will
20 give you an average. You know, I cant give you –
21 because some days it might have been one, and other

75
1 days you could have had a problem with three or four
2 of them.
3 Q Okay. And, I mean, if you add all that
4 up over four years or almost four years, you are
5 talking about hundreds and hundreds, if not
6 thousands, of valve jobs?
7 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
8 MR. IANNICELLI: Objection to form.
9 A Oh, yes.
10 Q Well, how many valve jobs do you think
11 you did over your four years — almost four years as
12 a wiper?
13 A Well, constantly breaking the valves –
14 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I just had
15 something scream through the audio, so I did not
16 hear your answer, some kind of interference. Could
17 you repeat your answer please?
18 A Yes. We had constant — in other
19 words — repeat the question. Im sorry.
20 BY MR. TANKARD:
21 Q Sure.

76
1 I was just trying to get some idea,
2 some rough estimate as to how many total valve
3 repair and replacement jobs of the type that you
4 described in some detail for us that you would have
5 done over your four years or almost four years with
6 Atlantic Refinery.
7 A Seven days a week, hundreds of them
8 probably.
9 Q Okay. And are there any valves that
10 would have been on any of those vessels that you
11 would not have worked on?
12 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. So if it was a valve and on that
15 vessel, you would have worked with it?
16 A Correct. Or if I didnt work on it, I
17 took the insulation off it to be worked on.
18 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I am getting
19 BlackBerry interference.
20 MS. WILDSTEIN: It could be me. Sorry.
21 I didnt know.

77
1 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Thank you.
2 MS. WILDSTEIN: Sure. Do you want me
3 to shut my BlackBerry off altogether?
4 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: It would be
5 better.
6 MS. WILDSTEIN: No problem.
7 (Whereupon, discussion held off the
8 record.)
9 BY MR. TANKARD:
10 Q Having handled our BlackBerry
11 emergency –
12 MS. WILDSTEIN: By the way, Im the
13 attorney for somebody.
14 Q The manufacturers of valves that you
15 listed for us earlier, do you specifically remember
16 working on valves by each of those manufacturers?
17 A Yes, I do because, like I said, when
18 you take them off and got them in the machine shop
19 to rebuild them or whatever, you see the name right
20 on there. And most of them you see the name on the
21 side. It comes right at them.

78
1 Q And in terms of Yarway valves which was
2 one of the types of valves you mentioned, can you
3 tell us how many times you would have worked
4 repairing and replacing a Yarway valve?
5 MR. IANNICELLI: Objection.
6 A A lot.
7 Q Okay. What about with Crane valves,
8 can you give us any idea of how often you would work
9 replacing a Crane valve?
10 A Loads of them.
11 Q I am sorry. You said loads of them?
12 A Loads of them, yes.
13 Q And how about with Leslie valves, can
14 you give us any idea how many –
15 A Leslie was more of the bigger valves.
16 We did once and — in the shipyard was a lot — they
17 worked on a lot of them.
18 Q Okay. And what about with the Foster
19 valves, can you give us an idea –
20 A Foster? There was a lot of Foster.
21 Q Okay. And what about the Copes-Vulcan

79
1 valves? Can you give us any idea of how many times
2 you would have worked with Copes-Vulcan valves?
3 A There was lots of them.
4 Q Now, I would like to shift gears a
5 little bit here and talk about pumps.
6 As a wiper during your time with
7 Atlantic Refinery, did you work with the repair and
8 maintenance of pumps?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. What process would you have had
11 to go through to repair or replace a pump?
12 A You would have — a lot of times it was
13 the packing in the shaft, and it could be an
14 impeller in the pump and different things, leaks.
15 Its basic work that you would do. Just like
16 valves, they would break down.
17 Q Okay. And just like valves, in order
18 to repair or work on a pump, would you have to break
19 it out of line, out of service?
20 A Most of the time, yes.
21 Q Okay. And would that require the same

80
1 process of removing insulation that you described
2 for us earlier?
3 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
4 A Yes.
5 Q So in repairing or replacing a pump,
6 you would have to remove the insulation before you
7 could get to the pump?
8 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
9 MR. WARE: Objection.
10 A Yes.
11 Q And what kind of conditions would be
12 created when you did that?
13 A The insulation, you would — it would
14 be all over your clothes.
15 Q Was there insulation on the pump itself
16 that you had to repair, the pumps themselves?
17 A Most of the pumps didnt have
18 insulation on it.
19 MR. MCNULTY: Wait one second.
20 Could you repeat that answer, please?
21 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)

81
1 BY MR. TANKARD:
2 Q Now, in — leading to the pumps, were
3 there valves that were associated with the use of
4 those pumps?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And there would be one on each
7 side of the lines going into the pumps?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And in order to work on the pump, did
10 you have to take the valves apart?
11 A Yes, you did. And you would have to
12 take the insulation on that. Now, when you said
13 insulation in the pump, it didnt have insulation
14 covering the pump itself because it had to have air.
15 A lot of the pumps had to have air going into it.
16 Bud you had insulation leading on right to the — in
17 other words, the flange of the pump, you had to take
18 the insulation off.
19 Q And in taking off the valves to get to
20 the pump, would it entail the same process? Would
21 it involve the same process that we talked about at

82
1 some length for removing and replacing the valve?
2 MR. IANNICELLI: Objection to form.
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. So every time you are working on
5 a pump, you have to do that same valve job that you
6 described for us?
7 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
8 MR. IANNICELLI: Objection to form.
9 A Correct.
10 Q The same conditions would be created?
11 MR. IANNICELLI: Objection to form.
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Well, what kind of conditions
14 would be created when you had to take out the valve
15 before working on a pump?
16 A It would be dusty and all over you and
17 all over to clean up on the floor.
18 Q Okay. And what about when you had to
19 take the insulation off leading — on the lines
20 leading up to the pump, what conditions would be
21 created?

83
1 A That would be dusty and all over the
2 floor and clean up again, on your clothes.
3 Q Okay. Now, on the lines leading to the
4 pump, would you have to clean off gaskets like you
5 described before?
6 A Yes, I would.
7 Q And, again, would the process be the
8 same as you described earlier in removing and
9 replacing a gasket for a valve?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And what condition would be created?
12 A They would be brittle and you would
13 have to scrape them off and be dusty and get all
14 over you.
15 Q And in terms of the pump itself, once
16 it got out of line, what, if any, involvement did
17 you have with repair of the pump itself?
18 A A lot of the — some of the pumps had
19 shafts on them where you had to take the packing,
20 again, off and put new packing in.
21 Q Okay. And in removing and replacing

84
1 that packing, would the process be the same or
2 similar as you have described for valves?
3 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
4 A Correct.
5 Q Okay. Well, in replacing and repairing
6 that packing, what kind of conditions would be
7 created?
8 A Dusty, especially if you blew it out
9 with like a — with an air hose, and it would get
10 all over your clothes.
11 Q And is that something you had to do,
12 blow it out with an air hose?
13 A Most of the time, yes, because the
14 particles, if it didnt come out if you had that
15 pump off and you are trying to get everything out.
16 You wanted it clean before you put the packing in.
17 Q And did any of those pumps that you
18 worked with have any internal gaskets in the pump?
19 A Some of them did, yes.
20 Q Okay. Is that something that you would
21 have to work with?

85
1 A On occasion.
2 Q Okay. How frequently would that have
3 been?
4 A It depended on the pump. Some pumps
5 did have it, some didnt.
6 Q Okay. In terms of your career at
7 Atlantic Refinery, how often would you have to
8 change out an internal gasket in a pump?
9 MS. WILDSTEIN: Objection.
10 A A lot.
11 Q The pumps that you worked on on these
12 oil tankers, do you recall any of the name brands or
13 manufacturers of the pumps?
14 A There was Buffalo, Gould, and
15 Ingersoll-Rand, and there was Westinghouse.
16 Q And in terms of the type of pumps, do
17 you recall which types of pumps were made by which
18 manufacturers?
19 A Well, some of them were feed pumps,
20 some of them were — I couldnt really — but I
21 remember the names on this because they had a tag

86
1 because they had to have a number if you needed
2 parts for them. And thats how you knew different
3 ones. But to give you exact what each pump — the
4 name of each pump and where its at, its tough for
5 me to pinpoint it.
6 Q Sure.
7 Well, how many of the pumps in the –
8 that combined fireroom/engine room space would you
9 have worked with over your four years at Atlantic
10 Refinery?
11 MR. WARE: Objection to the form.
12 A All of them I would say at one time or
13 another we had to. One thing, there was another
14 brand that I couldnt — there was another — I
15 believe there was another pump on there. And I
16 cant place what the heck that was. There was
17 another one, too.
18 Q Okay. Well, is it possible there
19 are –
20 A There was a lot of names. It was just
21 like the valves. There was other valves on there I

87
1 know I didnt name, but — and the same as pumps,
2 there was a couple pumps. Because once in a while,
3 we got an oddball pump come in.
4 Q Okay. Well, just so its clear, what
5 you are telling us is that you believe there would
6 have been other pumps with different brand names or
7 manufacturers, but you cant recall them today?
8 A Correct. I just named the ones I could
9 recall.
10 Q Okay. And you sort of explained why
11 you believe you recall those?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. And those would have been the
14 ones you worked with most frequently?
15 A Correct.
16 Q And sort of to give some idea, how many
17 pump jobs would you typically do, say, when these
18 vessels were lets start with in drydock for the
19 major overhaul and repairs?
20 A We would try to do as many as we could,
21 but usually it would end up being — its according

88
1 to the size of the pump. Some of them we would send
2 out to get rebuilt and all. It would be a couple a
3 day.
4 Q Okay. And what about when you were out
5 at sea?
6 A If they were leaking. We did a lot of
7 packing on the pumps, so it would be quite a few of
8 them Id say.
9 Q Do you have any idea of on average, on
10 a daily or weekly basis how often that would be?
11 A If you averaged it down, probably one
12 to two a day, easy.
13 Q Okay. And so that — can you tell us
14 how many pump jobs you would have done over your
15 career at Atlantic Refinery?
16 MR. WARE: Objection.
17 MR. MCNULTY: Objection.
18 A A lot of them. Specific, it would have
19 had to be over a hundred, yes, I would say.
20 Q And I think you mentioned early on in
21 your testimony that there were turbines on these oil

89
1 tankers that you served on; is that correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Did you yourself have any
4 involvement in repairing or replacing the turbines?
5 A No. They did — they took care of that
6 when we got in the shipyard and drydock. The
7 ones — the sister ship — I will wait until you ask
8 me a question.
9 Q Okay. And who would do that work on
10 the turbines when they were in drydock?
11 A Whoever was the manufacturer. There
12 was one — thats what I was going to tell you. On
13 the sister ships, they were Westinghouse. And
14 Westinghouse would come in and supervise that job
15 because they had to check and see that the fins and
16 everything, how they were inside the turbines.
17 Q Okay. And what about on the other
18 ships that werent the sister ships, do you recall
19 who that was?
20 A The real old ones had — some of them
21 had — one had GE. The newer ship had a GE turbine,

90
1 as I remember.
2 Q And who did the work on the GE turbine?
3 A GE was supervising — what happens in a
4 shipyard, the shipyard workers would tear it apart,
5 and they would come in, and they did all the work
6 actually in the turbine.
7 Q Okay. And where were you while the
8 turbines were being worked on?
9 A Working maybe a few feet from them.
10 Q And what was necessary to do before
11 working on the internal components of the turbines?
12 A Well, they had to tear everything apart
13 and tear all the insulation out. It was a 24-hour
14 process. So in the morning, lots of times we had to
15 do it. The shipyard workers didnt clean up their
16 mess. We had to clean it up.
17 Q Okay. Well, were you — where were you
18 while they were tearing the insulation off the
19 turbines?
20 A I was right — we would be working on
21 valves or pumps right in that area because we had

91
1 to. We only had so much time to get this done.
2 Q Sure.
3 And what kind of conditions would be
4 created when they would tear the insulation off the
5 turbines before working on them?
6 A Very, very dusty.
7 Q Where would the dust go?
8 A All over.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And your clothes and in the air.
11 Q Were you ever given any warnings by
12 Westinghouse or GE about there being any dangers
13 associated with dust from that insulation?
14 A No.
15 Q Ever given any warnings by anybody
16 about that?
17 A No.
18 Q Were you ever given any warnings that
19 that dust might create a problem if it got on your
20 clothes and you took it home, that it might be a
21 health hazard?

92
1 MR. WARE: Object.
2 A No.
3 Q Is there any equipment on those vessels
4 that you served on in Atlantic Refinery that you
5 would not have worked on or around?
6 A No, only the turbines — naturally,
7 when they took them apart, we didnt work on them.
8 But just about every piece of equipment we worked on
9 on that ship at one time or another, we had to do
10 the job on them.
11 Q So if it was on that ship, other than
12 the turbines, you would have worked on it?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And on the turbines, you didnt
15 do the work, but you were right there?
16 A I was right there when they did the
17 work, yes.
18 Q All right. Do you recall the brand
19 names or manufacturers of the boilers on those
20 Atlantic Refinery vessels that you worked on?
21 A Well, the older ones had Babcock &

93
1 Wilcox, and the newer ones had Combustionable
2 Engineering I believe it was on them ones. It had
3 some weird name, I remember that, because I was used
4 to the Babcock — seeing Babcock & Wilcox on some of
5 the older ones.
6 Q You may have touched on this earlier,
7 but why did you leave Atlantic Refinery?
8 A I left because my wife asked me to. We
9 got married. We just got married. We were very
10 young.
11 Q Okay. And you went to work where after
12 there?
13 A New York Ship in Camden, New Jersey.
14 Q And youve told us a little bit about
15 your work there. You were a pipe coverer?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Okay. And how long did you work there?
18 A Approximately eight to nine months. I
19 cant give you a regular, exact date I left.
20 Q Okay. And what were your job — what
21 was your job duty there?

94
1 A They call it a gopher. You would get
2 all the material, mix up all the asbestos and bring
3 it down to the guys and get the lagging, the pipe
4 covering and cut it up and whatnot.
5 Q Okay. And how often would you do that?
6 A I would be doing it eight hours a day.
7 Q Okay. And in the course of doing that,
8 what kind of conditions were created?
9 A Very, very dusty.
10 Q Okay. And where would the dust go?
11 A All over your clothes. I used to be
12 white. I looked like a snowman sometimes.
13 Q Okay. And do you recall the name
14 brands or manufacturer of any of the insulation
15 materials you used?
16 A Kaylo, because some of it was the same
17 as what I worked with on the ship, and
18 John-Mansville.
19 Q Were there any warnings on any of that
20 insulation material as to the health hazards of
21 asbestos?

95
1 A None.
2 Q What were you doing — what was the
3 general job that was being done at the New York
4 Shipyard when you were there?
5 A Building an aircraft carrier, a brand
6 new one. No repair — it wasnt repair work, in
7 other words. This was building it from scratch.
8 Q Okay. And that was the Kitty Hawk?
9 A That was the Kitty Hawk.
10 Q As a pipe coverer doing the job youve
11 described, what areas of the Kitty Hawk would you
12 have been on during your eight or nine months there?
13 A Just about all of them. I was on all
14 of them because I was the gopher, and I would have
15 to supply stuff to each individual area with the
16 material if they needed stuff mixed up and bring it
17 down to them. So I was all over that ship. It was
18 a huge ship. And it was a lot of walking. I was
19 young, so I guess they figured I could do it.
20 Q So were you around other pieces of
21 equipment as they are being installed?

96
1 A All the time. You had hundreds of
2 workers on that thing. And they were doing
3 insulation alongside of you while you were doing the
4 pipe covering.
5 Q Okay. And that new equipment that was
6 being installed, that would have to be insulated?
7 MR. WARE: Objection.
8 A Well, yes. Even the walls was being
9 insulated when you were doing it.
10 Q Okay. Is there any part of the Kitty
11 Hawk that you — any part of that vessel that — any
12 area that you werent working?
13 A Not that I can remember.
14 Q Okay. So you would have been around
15 all the equipment on that ship?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Now, youve described it as a huge
18 ship. Do you remember the name brand or
19 manufacturer of the forced draft blower on that
20 ship?
21 A I believe it was GE.

97
1 Q And are there pieces of equipment on
2 that ship that you simply cant remember who made
3 them?
4 A Yeah. There is a lot of equipment
5 there. You were working very fast.
6 In other words, you were working fast
7 on there because they had a deadline to meet on
8 that.
9 Q Okay. Well, if there was equipment on
10 that ship, you would have been working around it?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. Mr. Berglund, lets talk about
13 your clothes and how they got cleaned.
14 When you first started working for
15 Atlantic Refinery as a wiper in the late part of
16 1956, how did you get your clothes cleaned?
17 A Well, first I was washing them on the
18 ship myself, and then after I got to be with Carol,
19 I used to take them to her house and get them
20 washed.
21 Q Okay. And what time — what point in

98
1 time was that?
2 A That was probably months after we had
3 met. Naturally, I didnt just take some clothes
4 right to her house after I meet her.
5 Q Okay. That was probably a good move.
6 A About that time, I was trying to wash
7 them. And then I took them, it might have been
8 about — I guess about — after I met her, about six
9 months after, four months, something like that.
10 Q So when did you meet her?
11 A Well, I met her in that year of 56.
12 And it was probably in 57, beginning of 57,
13 somewhere around in 57 I probably took her –
14 Q The first part of 1957?
15 A Yes, in the beginning of 57.
16 Q Okay. And can you describe what your
17 clothes looked like when you would take them to
18 Carol in the beginning of 57?
19 A Very dirty. I would put them in a
20 duffle — see, I would put them in a duffle bag and
21 then I would transport them to her place.

99
1 Q Okay. And how often would she do your
2 laundry?
3 A When I came in in 14 — you know, 14
4 days. This is when we were first going, you know,
5 together.
6 Q And how much clothing would there be in
7 your duffle bag?
8 A Fourteen days of the work pants.
9 Q And did you wear anything besides
10 pants?
11 A Shirts and whatnot. The hat was still
12 dirty when I was wearing it while I was there, to be
13 honest with you, sometimes probably.
14 Q Okay. And can you explain to us how
15 Carol did the laundry?
16 A Out there in South Philadelphia on
17 Mercy Street was a little row house. And she had –
18 they had a kitchen, like a little kitchen that had
19 the washer and dryer on the side — not even a
20 dryer, it was just a washer back then, one of them
21 old washers. Because they hung the stuff outside on

100
1 a line.
2 And she would take them out of my
3 duffle bag and then — because a couple times she
4 would shake it over the duffle bag because she said
5 what is that, you were really — what the heck were
6 you working with and put them in there. Because I
7 would be sitting there drinking a beer while I was
8 in the kitchen.
9 We had only so much time together, so
10 we were together all the time. And she would throw
11 it in there, and then we would go in the living
12 room.
13 See, her mother was hardly ever home,
14 and she was the last one left in the house, so we
15 had the house mostly to ourself.
16 Q Okay. And could you see what she was
17 shaking out of your clothes?
18 A The dust from my jobs that I had on the
19 ship.
20 Q Okay. And could you see where that
21 dust went?

101
1 A Yes. A lot of it went in the air, and
2 some went in the duffle bag. It was airborne.
3 Q Okay.
4 A It probably went on her. It had to
5 have went on her.
6 Q How far was she away from the clothes
7 that she was shaking?
8 A She was right there. She would take
9 them out of the duffle bag and then put them
10 (indicating) — well, everything was very close
11 quarters in there where she was at.
12 Q In this kitchen?
13 A And thats in the kitchen. Thats
14 before we were married.
15 Q Okay. And when you were on that
16 rotation of 14 days out and then back, she would do
17 it when you got back?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And that — it went on like that from
20 early 57 until you got married?
21 A Yes.

102
1 Q Okay. What, if any, difference was
2 there in the routine during those periods when you
3 were in drydock doing repairs and not at sea?
4 A It wasnt — then we couldnt wash at
5 all on there because lots of times the water was
6 shut off, you know, that kind of thing for washing
7 or anything. So it would be the same.
8 When I finally got a weekend — I would
9 get probably one weekend out of that deal I could go
10 home. And I would take the stuff there and get it
11 washed.
12 Q Who would wash it?
13 A Carol.
14 Q And would it be the same procedure, you
15 would sit in the kitchen and watch her do that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. And how many clothes are we
18 talking about when you took them to her to get
19 washed?
20 A Whatever. I tried to wear clothes as
21 much as possible on there. You would try to –

103
1 because they are dirty anyway, so — on there. And
2 I would have whatever in the week and a half, two
3 weeks — say two weeks of clothes, three weeks
4 sometimes.
5 Q Okay. And can you describe the
6 condition of those clothes?
7 A Very dusty.
8 Q Okay. And you saw Carol doing the
9 laundry?
10 A Correct.
11 Q Okay. What procedure would she use?
12 The same that you described earlier?
13 A The same, yes. Yes.
14 Q And could you actually see dust from
15 the clothes?
16 A Yes, you could.
17 Q Okay. Where would the dust go?
18 A It would go airborne and probably on
19 her because it was right there. She was standing
20 right in front of there shaking it. And even the
21 bag — the bag at the end when she got done I had to

104
1 take outside and I shook it out because it would be
2 on the bottom of the bag, this stuff.
3 Q Okay. So are you saying that she kind
4 of shook some of the dust onto the bag, and then you
5 would take the bag –
6 A It was — yes. And as she was pulling
7 it out, she would just shake it over the duffle –
8 it was one of them big duffle bags.
9 Q And then what, if any, change was there
10 in this routine when you all got married?
11 A Well, we moved out of that house. We
12 went down to Woodstown at the farm in New Jersey.
13 And she still did — she did wash there, too.
14 Q Okay.
15 A And that was in — but that was a
16 little bigger area, but it was a shed.
17 Q Okay. And when did you get married?
18 A In 19 — August of 1960.
19 Q Okay. And would it have been the same
20 routine, but in a different location?
21 A The same routine, different location.

105
1 Q Okay. Tell us about where she would do
2 the laundry at this place in Woodstown, New Jersey.
3 A In a — they had a shed off of it where
4 the washer and dryer was.
5 Q And was the condition of your clothes
6 the same when she did the laundry then?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. And she would use the same
9 procedure?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. And you would actually see her
12 at times doing the wash?
13 A Oh, yes.
14 Q And why is that?
15 A Lots of times because I used to have to
16 bring it down. See, there, we had an upstairs. And
17 so I would have it — I had it in — my clothes in
18 the hamper, and I — we would take it — as she
19 would take it out of the hamper and put it in the
20 clothes basket and ask me to bring it down, and I
21 would do it. We did that on a Saturday, you know,

106
1 like whenever I was home.
2 Q Okay. Can you describe this shed for
3 us a little bit more? You said it was kind of
4 confined, I think.
5 A It was only a little 9 by 12, yes,
6 shed, 9 by 9, something like that.
7 Q Okay. And then did Carol continue to
8 do your laundry in a similar way when you worked at
9 New York Ship?
10 A Correct. Yes. We did it on the
11 weekend like on a Saturday. Thats why I was
12 confused earlier. Yes.
13 Q Okay. And what was the condition of
14 your clothes when you brought them home from New
15 York Ship?
16 A White.
17 In other words, it was — it looked
18 like snow on the clothes.
19 Q Now, do you believe that Carol was
20 exposed to dust from your work in any way besides
21 doing the laundry?

107
1 A No. That was — not from that dust,
2 except for my car. In the car, it was very dusty.
3 Q Okay. And dusty from what?
4 A From me going — from leaving my job
5 and still having the dirty clothes on. Put it –
6 when I — do you want to go with Atlantic? I dont
7 know where you are going with this, Atlantic, or are
8 we talking about the shipyard?
9 Q Lets start with Atlantic.
10 A Okay. Atlantic. When you leave a
11 ship, you are going — you have 18 hours, and you
12 want to get — and you are working right up to the
13 last minute. Okay? You dont bother worrying about
14 anything.
15 You know what you want to do? You want
16 to grab whatever you are going to take ashore, you
17 grab it and you go. And you want to get off there
18 as fast as you can in case they find — something
19 would break down or something, a job where they are
20 going to keep you for that day.
21 And I would go to Carol. And my

108
1 clothes would still be dirty, actually, when I got
2 there because I hadnt — we werent going to go out
3 clubbing or anything. We were just going to be
4 together for that 18 hours.
5 Q Okay. And are you telling us that some
6 of that — what was on your clothing would get in
7 your car?
8 A Oh, yes, because lots of times we would
9 drive down to Woodstown because we had the house
10 there for ourselves because nobody was living in it
11 at the time, at that time.
12 Q And how often was Carol in your car
13 during this time period, lets say –
14 A She would be in my car every time that
15 I hit port, yes.
16 Q Im sorry. Every time what?
17 A Every time I hit port, that
18 Philadelphia port.
19 Q Okay. So once every couple weeks?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Did you ever see any dust in the

109
1 air in your vehicle?
2 A When you turned on the — yes, because
3 when you turned on the heater, it would blow. It
4 used to get in your eyes once in a while from the
5 stuff that was in there, yes.
6 Q Did you ever see that happening to
7 Carol?
8 A When she was in there, yes, it would
9 happen, yes.
10 Q Okay. And you saw — there were
11 occasions when you saw that happening to her?
12 A Yes. The dust in there? Yes. Yes.
13 It was always dusty.
14 Q Okay. And in terms of other places
15 where Carol might have been exposed to asbestos,
16 based on your 27 years of marriage, do you know of
17 anyplace where you would have brought home asbestos
18 or she would have been exposed to asbestos other
19 than these jobs that youve described for us at
20 Atlantic Refinery or at New York Shipyard?
21 A Not unless cinnamon buns and bread had

110
1 asbestos on it, because thats what I was doing, the
2 job, and she was working at a liquor store.
3 Q So your answer would be no?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Now, when you were at Atlantic
6 Refinery, who supervised you there?
7 A You had — of course, you had a
8 captain. The captain was the main man. And then
9 you had a chief engineer was supervising the people
10 in the engine room.
11 Q Okay. And just so its clear, you are
12 a member of the Merchant Marines, but you are an
13 employee of Atlantic Refinery, correct?
14 A Correct. It was considered Atlantic
15 Refinerys marine division.
16 Q Okay. And who was responsible for
17 safety on those Atlantic Refinery vessels?
18 A The captain and the chief engineer. It
19 was two of them.
20 Q Who provided you or who gave you safety
21 rules or regulations you had to follow on –

111
1 A None. There was none.
2 Q There were no safety rules or
3 regulations?
4 A No safety rules. They didnt have no
5 safety rules. The only rules they had is dont miss
6 the ship.
7 Q Okay. Did anybody from Atlantic
8 Refinery give you any warnings about working with
9 asbestos on the vessels?
10 A No.
11 Q Anybody from Atlantic Refinery tell you
12 that you need to be careful with getting asbestos
13 dust on your clothes and taking it home?
14 A No.
15 Q Anybody from Atlantic Refinery give any
16 kind of warning or notice to your wife at the time,
17 Carol, or any of your family members about dust that
18 might be brought home from your working on their
19 vessels?
20 A No.
21 Q And did Atlantic Refinery — they

112
1 didnt provide you with any kind of uniforms,
2 correct?
3 A None.
4 Q And did they have any sort of laundry
5 service available where you could leave your clothes
6 and they would do your laundry for you?
7 A None. You — they did have washing
8 machines on the ship if you wanted to wash clothes,
9 yes.
10 Q And did Atlantic Refinery provide you
11 any sort of masks or respiratory protection?
12 A None.
13 Q Okay. Did they provide you with any
14 kind of eye protection, any kind of goggles,
15 anything like that?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay. And were you given a separate
18 area to put your dirty clothes at the end of the
19 day?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Were you given any separate area

113
1 to change other than your quarters where you slept?
2 A No.
3 Q Mr. Berglund, have you yourself ever
4 been diagnosed with an asbestos-related disease?
5 A Yes, I have, yes, asbestosis.
6 Q Asbestosis? Is that what you said?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. Do you recall approximately when
9 you were diagnosed with that disease?
10 A Approximately — I found out about five
11 years ago, four to five years ago, I guess it was.
12 Q And have you considered filing any sort
13 of legal claim or legal action for that?
14 A No. As a matter of fact, I was
15 approached a couple times because I worked in the
16 shipyard and I lived right around Gloucester City,
17 and I never bothered even — I didnt know I had it
18 then, and I never bothered getting involved in any
19 of the suits, no.
20 Q And why is that?
21 A I just didnt feel it necessary at the

114
1 time. I just didnt.
2 Q Okay. Now, Mr. Berglund, you were
3 divorced from Carol I guess now about 20 years ago;
4 is that right?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Okay. Can you tell us why you are here
7 today giving testimony in her case?
8 A Yeah. Its going to be hard. She was
9 a beautiful woman. And even though we had been
10 divorced, we still loved each other in our own way.
11 And I used to see her, how she looked, how she was
12 deteriorating. And thats why — I never
13 bothered — I wouldnt even be here today even
14 though I have asbestosis. But to see her, how she
15 went, thats why I am here today, to tell my story.
16 Q Do you have any financial interest in
17 this lawsuit?
18 A None. None at all. Her husband and –
19 its her husband. I have nothing. I am just here
20 to tell that story about what I seen of that woman
21 and what happened to her and worried about I have

115
1 that sword hanging over me.
2 MR. SWISS: Objection. Move to strike.
3 MR. TANKARD: Thats all my questions
4 for the time being. I may have some more later.
5 And then other folks are going to have some
6 questions. Why dont we take a break.
7 MR. GALLO: Why dont we take a
8 five-minute break.
9 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
10 number 2 of our deposition. The time is 11:44.
11 (Whereupon, recess taken — 11:44 a.m.)
12 (Whereupon, after recess — 11:56 a.m.)
13 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
14 number 3 of our video deposition of George Berglund.
15 The time is 11:56.
16 MS. WILDSTEIN: I just want to put an
17 objection on the record with regard to the
18 videotaping of this deposition, as its a discovery
19 deposition, and the rules in New Jersey do not allow
20 for same.
21 EXAMINATION

116
1 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
2 Q That said, Mr. Berglund, hi.
3 A Hi.
4 Q My name is Lisa Wildstein. How are
5 you?
6 A Im all right.
7 Q Okay. I have some questions for you as
8 well.
9 If something I say, for whatever
10 reason, you dont understand it, let me know, and
11 Ill repeat it or rephrase it in such a way that you
12 do understand it. Okay?
13 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
14 Q You need to be verbal.
15 A Oh. Yes.
16 Q Okay. Otherwise, I am going to assume
17 that you understood all my questions and you are
18 responding directly to them. Do you understand
19 that?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Now, are you represented by an

117
1 attorney here today?
2 A I am not represented by, I just was
3 subpoenaed as a witness.
4 Q Okay. So you are not represented?
5 A No.
6 Q All right. Now, you live about ten
7 minutes from where I grew up in Cherry Hill, New
8 Jersey. Are you familiar with that area?
9 A Very much so.
10 Q Okay. Why are we having your
11 deposition here today in Baltimore?
12 A Why are we having it?
13 Q Yes.
14 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
15 A I dont know why we are having it
16 particularly in Baltimore. I dont know.
17 Q Did you –
18 A One reason, I guess, because I have a
19 place in Ocean City. I am staying right here in
20 Ocean City the summer.
21 Q Are you staying in Ocean City now?

118
1 A I have a place there, yes.
2 Q No. My question to you is are you
3 staying there now?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. You are staying there? You
6 stayed there last night?
7 A No. I came here to Baltimore.
8 Q From New Jersey?
9 A No. From Ocean City.
10 Q Okay. Thats my question to you.
11 So you stayed in Ocean City last night?
12 A Last night — I came here yesterday,
13 stayed here last night in Baltimore from Ocean City.
14 Q Okay. Where did you stay in Baltimore?
15 A At Baltimore, right here around the
16 corner.
17 Q In a hotel?
18 A Yes, in a hotel.
19 Q Who paid for that hotel?
20 A I did last night.
21 Q And did somebody else pay for it

119
1 another night?
2 A Nobody paid for it any night because it
3 was my credit card that was used.
4 Q Is somebody reimbursing you?
5 A I dont know about that. I dont know
6 anything about that, but I hope so.
7 Q Well, I guess my question is — you
8 understand you are under oath here today, right?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. And you understand that being
11 under oath, if you tell a falsification, it has the
12 penalty of perjury under law?
13 A Right.
14 Q Do you understand that?
15 A Um-hmm.
16 Q So I am asking you did you come here
17 today and stay in Baltimore with the assumption or
18 the knowledge that anybody was going to be
19 reimbursing you for any costs whatsoever for your
20 journey?
21 A Yes.

120
1 Q And who, please?
2 A I guess it was who is here today,
3 George or his law firm.
4 Q The plaintiffs attorney?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And how long have you been in
7 Baltimore thus far for the purposes of this
8 deposition?
9 A I got in last night at 6:30.
10 Q Okay. Where are you staying?
11 A At the Trenton Grand {sic} or something
12 around the corner.
13 Q Okay. And thats a hotel, we have
14 established?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. And how long are you intending
17 on staying for?
18 A Hopefully just until tomorrow.
19 Q And have you — are you under the
20 assumption that all of your costs associated with
21 your stay are going to be reimbursed by the

121
1 plaintiffs attorney, such as meals?
2 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
3 A Nobody said anything about meals, just
4 my hotel, which I did use my card last night.
5 Q Okay. But you are under the assumption
6 you are being reimbursed for that, correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. And how about gas in getting
9 here? Will you be reimbursed for that?
10 A Nobody said anything about gas.
11 Q Are you intending on asking for
12 reimbursement for that?
13 A Yes, I will, because I was subpoenaed
14 here as a witness.
15 Q And are you intending on asking for
16 reimbursement for your meals?
17 A Yes, I am.
18 Q Okay. And did you bring any family
19 members with you for this Baltimore sojourn?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
21 A No, I have no family members here.

122
1 Q Okay. Did you bring anybody with you
2 such as your wife?
3 A I have no wife at this time.
4 Q Okay. Did you bring anybody with you?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Okay. Do you have a girlfriend you
7 brought with you?
8 A Yes, but she lives right — she has a
9 place here also.
10 Q Is she staying with you at the hotel?
11 A But she is coming here, yes.
12 Q Okay. She ate meals with you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And you are going to ask the
15 plaintiffs attorney to reimburse for those meals?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Now, did you specifically
18 request that the deposition be conducted in
19 Baltimore?
20 A Yes, because I will be here because my
21 girlfriend has a place here, and I am going to a

123
1 wedding right up the street here later on this week.
2 In other words, Saturday, I have got a
3 wedding, and it will be right here at the theater.
4 Q And how far is Ocean City, Maryland
5 from here?
6 A Ocean City, Maryland is approximately,
7 I guess, 135 miles, 145.
8 Q So it takes longer to get to Ocean
9 City, Maryland to come here than it does from New
10 Jersey in time?
11 A Yes, it would. Yes.
12 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
13 MS. WILDSTEIN: And I am going to place
14 an objection on the record that I would want my
15 clients fees to be reimbursed for our attendance at
16 the deposition here today. Our client is a New
17 Jersey based client. The suit was filed in New
18 Jersey, and the witness lives in New Jersey.
19 MR. MCNULTY: Join.
20 MR. IANNICELLI: Join.
21 MR. KOOI: Join.

124
1 MR. KUZMIN: Let me state for the
2 record though that no objection was made to the
3 subpoena, no motion was made to quash the subpoena,
4 and no other notice was given to plaintiffs prior to
5 this statement being placed on the record and joined
6 by everyone. If there was a problem, it should have
7 been addressed when the subpoena was issued, and an
8 appropriate motion should have been filed.
9 MS. WILDSTEIN: Bill, there is a myriad
10 of issues with that, the first –
11 MR. KUZMIN: Lisa, you have already
12 been wrong on the videotape deposition part. I
13 think you are wrong as far as the motion goes for
14 the subpoena.
15 MS. WILDSTEIN: Bill, there is a myriad
16 of issues with that, the first being that the court
17 rules do not permit for you to do that. A lawsuit
18 filed in New Jersey with the witness living in New
19 Jersey, there is absolutely — it goes contrary to
20 every court rule.
21 Not only that, but –

125
1 MR. KUZMIN: Which court rule? Which
2 court rule?
3 MS. WILDSTEIN: I dont have to do your
4 job for you.
5 But in addition to that –
6 MR. KUZMIN: If you are going to cite a
7 rule, you have to tell me exactly which court rule
8 so that we can address it.
9 MS. WILDSTEIN: So show me the rule
10 that says that.
11 MR. KUZMIN: The videotape deposition
12 one that was ruled on is 14-4-9. Videotape
13 deposition may be taken for discovery purposes,
14 yada, yada, yada. So you have been wrong on that.
15 Now, if you are going to start citing
16 court rules, let me know which one so I can go look
17 it up.
18 MS. WILDSTEIN: Why dont you let me
19 finish my statement on the record.
20 MR. KUZMIN: I will.
21 MS. WILDSTEIN: Additionally, not only

126
1 were we wrongfully brought here, but there is no way
2 that we would have any knowledge that this
3 witness — where he was at the time his deposition
4 was scheduled for.
5 Not only that, we didnt have any
6 notice of the fact that he had a wedding here.
7 Not only that, we dont know all of his
8 addresses. You scheduled the deposition. So it
9 will be borne out before a judge.
10 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
11 Q Okay, sir. Im sorry. I digress. Let
12 me go back to some questions.
13 Did you meet with any attorney prior to
14 the deposition here today?
15 A Yes.
16 Q On how many occasions did you meet with
17 an attorney prior to todays deposition?
18 A Three times.
19 Q And did you meet with an attorney from
20 the Cohen, Placitella firm?
21 A I cant recall those people.

127
1 Q On the three prior occasions that you
2 met with attorneys before this deposition, were they
3 in New Jersey?
4 A There was one attorney came to my
5 sons, and I was called over there. That was from
6 Philadelphia. I dont remember any of them from New
7 Jersey. They were from a Philadelphia office there
8 or whatever.
9 Q Lets take it in turn. The first time
10 that you met with an attorney, where did you meet
11 with that attorney?
12 A That was in my sons house in
13 Gloucester City.
14 Q In New Jersey?
15 A New Jersey, yes.
16 Q Okay. So you met with an attorney in
17 New Jersey?
18 A Um-hmm.
19 Q And do you remember that attorneys
20 name?
21 A No. It was a young lady and a guy. I

128
1 was only in there — they only asked me a few
2 questions, and that was it.
3 Q Okay.
4 A Basically about the shipyard.
5 Q Was it Chris Placitella and Rachel
6 Cohen?
7 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
8 A That name does — it may have been. I
9 have no idea.
10 Q Oh, Im sorry. Rachel Placitella?
11 A It might have been. I dont know.
12 Q And then where was the second occasion
13 that you met with an attorney? Where were you?
14 A In Ocean City.
15 Q Maryland?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And would did you meet with at that
18 time?
19 A George Tankard.
20 Q The attorney who is sitting here today?
21 A Yes.

129
1 Q And the third occasion, where did you
2 meet with an attorney?
3 A Well, that was the three — he was with
4 me for three days. He was there for three days,
5 yes. Thats what I was — meant, three days, three
6 times. I thought thats what you were talking
7 about. He was there for three days, yes.
8 Q For three days?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. So you met with an attorney for
11 three days straight?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And that attorney is the attorney
14 sitting next to me?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And where did you stay when you met
17 with that attorney for three days?
18 A At my place in Ocean City.
19 Q And where did the attorney stay?
20 A He stayed in a hotel.
21 Q And how long did you spend with the

130
1 attorney for each of those days?
2 A A few hours.
3 Q Each day?
4 A Each day, yes.
5 Q And did you do a deposition or question
6 and answer session similar to what was conducted
7 here today?
8 A Correct. They just asked me the same
9 questions just trying to pick my brain what I knew,
10 yes.
11 Q Okay. And you went over the questions
12 and answers that you gave here today?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
14 MR. SWISS: Objection.
15 A I didnt go over anything. He just
16 asked me the same thing, which I was there and I did
17 what I did.
18 Q Sure.
19 A There is no question. He can ask me
20 any question he wants, and you can, too, and it
21 dont make a bit of difference because I know what I

131
1 did.
2 Q Great.
3 And they were the same questions that
4 you were asked here?
5 A Exact same thing because he said you
6 are going to get tired of it which is — over and
7 over, yeah.
8 Q And you went over it and over it again?
9 A He asked me different questions, yes.
10 Q Okay. And anything that you talked
11 about today throw you for a loop or was different
12 than what you had talked about previously?
13 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
14 A I cant say everything was exact same,
15 but most of it was the basics, which it would have
16 been the basics anyway would have been right here.
17 Q Sure.
18 I just want to switch gears for a
19 moment and cut back to the first time you met with
20 an attorney at your sons house in Gloucester City,
21 New Jersey.

132
1 A Um-hmm.
2 Q How long did you meet with those
3 attorneys for at that time?
4 A That was short. That wasnt — that
5 was only one time, and that was a while ago in the
6 beginning of this. Because I didnt even know — he
7 called me up and asked me to come over.
8 Q Two days as opposed to three?
9 A Because they actually met with him, and
10 then they called me over.
11 Q Right.
12 A And it was just that one time. And
13 they just talked to me basically for about two
14 hours, just basic information about my job history.
15 Q Sure.
16 And how about the second time you met
17 with an attorney, how long did that last for, or was
18 that the three-day session?
19 A That was the three-day session with
20 George.
21 Q Okay. All right. And at any time

133
1 during your prior meetings with the attorneys, did
2 you have meals with them?
3 A No. No. No. No.
4 Q Did you do anything with them –
5 A No.
6 Q — other than discuss the case?
7 A No. No.
8 Q And did you ever look at a picture
9 book?
10 A I dont remember any picture book, no.
11 No picture book, no, nothing. All he did was ask a
12 few questions about the history. A lot of it had to
13 do with New York Ship, and that was it. There was
14 no pictures or anything.
15 Q Okay. Were you ever shown any pictures
16 of products?
17 A No.
18 Q Were you ever asked names of products
19 to see if you could recall them?
20 A I was asked what products do you
21 recall, yes.

134
1 Q Okay. My question to you is different.
2 Its probably my fault for phrasing it poorly. So
3 listen to my specific question to you. Were you
4 ever provided with names of products and asked if
5 you recalled them?
6 A No.
7 Q Were you ever provided with a list of
8 products, written?
9 A No.
10 Q Were you ever provided with verbal cues
11 as to the names of products and asked if you recall
12 them?
13 In other words, did the attorney ever
14 say to you do you recall Kaylo?
15 A Here is what I was told. And this
16 was –
17 Q No, please just answer my question.
18 A Okay. No.
19 Q Okay. Now you can tell me what you
20 were saying.
21 A Okay. I was told write — for me –

135
1 Q Yes.
2 A — to in my time sit down and write
3 everything down that you can remember, try to
4 remember what you did.
5 Q Okay.
6 A And thats what I did.
7 Q At any time, did the attorney suggest
8 various products or type, shapes or forms of
9 products or brand names to you?
10 A No. No. I just put it down on my own
11 records. As a matter of fact, he said — they said
12 they cant do it.
13 Q Okay. So every name you told us about
14 here today you recalled on your own; is that fair to
15 say?
16 A Yes. Yes.
17 Q Okay. And then did you do any internet
18 searches prior to your meetings?
19 A I dont even have a computer, and I
20 never ran one.
21 Q Did you ever discuss the products you

136
1 worked with during the course of your career with
2 anyone other than the attorneys in this case?
3 A Rephrase that. How you mean talked
4 about the products?
5 Q Sure.
6 Like did you call any friends or any
7 coworkers you may have worked with or anybody who
8 may have remembered the names and discuss it with
9 them?
10 A Oh, that way. No. No, because I
11 didnt know any — most of them are dead anyway. I
12 dont know anyone.
13 Q Okay. Now, you were contacted by the
14 attorneys in this case, correct?
15 A Correct.
16 Q You didnt contact them; is that
17 correct?
18 A No, I did not. Hmm-um. I didnt even
19 want to be here, but they subpoenaed me, yes.
20 Q Okay. Did you not come here willingly?
21 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.

137
1 A I came here willingly, yes. In a way,
2 I have to come here.
3 Q Now, why did your — well, would you
4 have come here had you not been subpoenaed?
5 A I would have, yes, for Carol, yes. I
6 would have came here, yes. I definitely would have
7 probably came here.
8 Q Okay. Now, did your former wife while
9 she was alive contact the plaintiffs attorneys?
10 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
11 A I wasnt around my wife. My former
12 wife, we were divorced. She would have been with
13 her husband and contacted the attorneys. I have no
14 idea what she — how it went about.
15 Q My question to you is — and maybe you
16 can help me. Your wife — well, your ex-wife, while
17 she was alive, she lived in New Jersey, correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q She didnt live in Maryland, correct?
20 A Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
21 Q How did she come into contact with the

138
1 firm that we are at today? Do you know?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
3 A I believe through my son.
4 Q Okay. And which son would that be?
5 A That would be George, Jr.
6 Q And how did George, Jr. come into
7 contact with this firm?
8 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
9 A I have no idea.
10 Q Then why do you believe it would have
11 been through your son?
12 A Because I know my son notified somebody
13 about the asbestos because he knows I worked with
14 it. As a matter of fact, I think it was probably
15 Carol that told him to do it.
16 Q Okay. Carol being your ex-wife?
17 A Yeah.
18 Q Okay. And thats George, Jr.?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Do you know, did George, Jr. respond to
21 some kind of attorney advertisement?

139
1 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
2 A I have no idea.
3 Q How do you know George, Jr. contacted
4 someone then on your wifes behalf?
5 A Because he said he did.
6 Q And did you ask him how did he contact
7 this person?
8 A No. No.
9 Q Or who he found?
10 A No.
11 Q Did he ever tell you that he contacted
12 this person through a TV advertisement?
13 A No.
14 Q No?
15 A Nothing.
16 Q Okay. Did he ever tell you that he
17 contacted this firm through a computer-related
18 search?
19 A That I wouldnt know. He does use a
20 computer a lot, so its possible. I have no idea.
21 Q Okay. Im only asking this — Im not

140
1 trying to beat a dead horse. I am just trying to
2 use my commonsense. And if somebody told me that
3 they contacted a firm, I would ask them, well, how
4 did you get the name of this firm, who do you know
5 at this firm. Did you ask any of those questions?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
7 A No, none at all.
8 Q Thats okay.
9 Okay. Now, the son who is the executor
10 of your wifes estate –
11 A Yes.
12 Q — thats George Berglund, Jr.?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And thats the son who you told me
15 lives in Gloucester County; is that correct?
16 A Gloucester City, yes.
17 Q Gloucester City.
18 And are you close with him?
19 A I am very close. I hardly ever see
20 him, but I am close to him.
21 Q Do you speak often?

141
1 A We talk on the phone maybe once a
2 week –
3 Q Okay. And hes the son –
4 A Two weeks, something like that.
5 Q I apologize. I didnt mean to cut you
6 off. Go ahead.
7 A Okay. Maybe two weeks, you know. Not
8 every week, you know, he talks to me.
9 Q Okay. Because I got the impression
10 that you were not close with your other son. Is
11 that right?
12 A One son I hardly ever see, the youngest
13 one, John. And Walter, I might hear from him about
14 every month.
15 Q Okay. And I thought you told me, and I
16 could be wrong, that your son George was the one who
17 told you that your ex-wife, Carol, was sick and
18 reported on her progress?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. And he was sort of a channel or
21 conduit between you and your ex-wife about progress

142
1 and treatments?
2 A Yes. His wife used to go over and get
3 the medicine for her and all, the pain medicine.
4 Q I recall you telling us that.
5 Okay. All right. So what does George,
6 Jr. do for a living?
7 A He is in the police department.
8 Q In Gloucester City?
9 A Gloucester City, yes.
10 Q Okay. And what is — Walter, is that
11 his name?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Thats an interesting name. Where does
14 that come from?
15 A From his grandfather.
16 Q Oh, okay.
17 A Yeah. We call him Butch though. We
18 hardly ever mention him as Walter.
19 Q Butch?
20 A Yeah.
21 Q I am not even going to ask why.

143
1 What does Walter do for a living?
2 A Walter runs — helps run some of the
3 business they have.
4 Q What business and who has?
5 A They have all these machines in
6 different places, vending business.
7 Q Okay. And who is they?
8 A Him and his wife. Its called Bills
9 Vending. Its one of the biggest in New Jersey, I
10 believe.
11 Q They have like a vending machine
12 business?
13 A Yes, all kinds of vendings, and then he
14 deals with properties also.
15 Q Okay. And how about John, what does he
16 do for a living?
17 A John has his own business, a tree
18 service.
19 Q And George, Jr., what does his wife do
20 for a living?
21 A She teaches computer.

144
1 Q And was your wife close with George,
2 Jr.?
3 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
4 A Which wife are you talking?
5 Q Im sorry. I should have clarified.
6 A I had two of them.
7 Q Your ex-wife.
8 A My ex-wife, yes, very close with her
9 children, yes. And I was friends with her, too,
10 yes.
11 Q Okay. And was she close with Walter as
12 well?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And John?
15 A Yes.
16 Q How frequently would she see George and
17 his children?
18 A On a lot of occasions. Like I say, I
19 wasnt around all the time, so I wouldnt know how
20 many times.
21 Q How frequently would she see Walter?

145
1 A I wouldnt have any idea because we
2 were divorced. I was living with another wife at
3 another location.
4 Q Sure.
5 And how frequently would she see John
6 and his children?
7 A I have no idea.
8 Q Okay. And did you get divorced a
9 second time?
10 A No. My wife died the same year — only
11 a year apart from my first wife.
12 Q Im sorry. What was the cause of her
13 death?
14 A Her death was a massive heart attack.
15 Hers could have been prevented, but Carols — I
16 mean, couldnt — it wasnt — you know, couldnt,
17 but Carols could have been prevented. She could
18 have been prevented, but hers couldnt.
19 Q Okay. Now, have you discussed this
20 case with your son George?
21 A Well, yes, certainly.

146
1 Q Okay. And did George ask you to
2 testify on behalf of his mother?
3 A He asked me to do that in the
4 beginning, yes.
5 Q And has George told you that some of
6 the parties or non-parties to the litigation have
7 settled this case and that George has gotten some
8 money from it already?
9 A He did mention that he got a little bit
10 from something, but it wasnt my business, so I
11 never bothered questioning it.
12 Q Sure.
13 How much money did George get?
14 A I have no idea. I never asked him.
15 Like I said, I did not question it.
16 Q Okay. And do you know, was it from
17 settlements or trusts or something other than that?
18 A I have no idea.
19 Q Okay. Now, how old — well, strike
20 that.
21 What year did you meet Carol?

147
1 A Carol, in — it would have been the end
2 of 56.
3 Q And when you say the end, you have been
4 pretty precise.
5 A Yeah. Somewhere — yeah, pretty good.
6 It would have been about — because I met her — the
7 first meeting would have been — it was just casual.
8 And that was probably, I guess, around in December,
9 somewhere in there, of 56.
10 Q Okay. How did you meet Carol?
11 A I just met her at — well, she was
12 on — to be honest with you, she was sitting on the
13 corner, and I was driving by, and then we started
14 talking, and that was sort of it, and then we got
15 more together.
16 Q Okay. So you met Carol in about
17 December of 56?
18 A Yes, around there.
19 Q And you married Carol I think you said
20 in 60; is that right, August of 60?
21 A In 60, yes.

148
1 Q Okay. So you knew Carol approximately
2 four years prior to getting married?
3 A Correct.
4 Q And you dated Carol approximately four
5 years prior to getting married?
6 A Yes. We really started getting
7 together in — where we were — in 57, we were
8 really together then.
9 Q Im sorry. You know what, I should
10 have asked you this in the beginning, and I
11 absolutely forgot. Have you ever been convicted of
12 any crimes?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay.
15 A No. I have clearance for all kinds of
16 places, security clearances on account of my job
17 that I was doing, environmental.
18 Q Okay. And then one other question
19 before I follow along with this line of questioning.
20 What — you seem — you were in a trade as a
21 pipefitter, right?

149
1 A I was in a trade with — now we are
2 going back — where are we going with this? We are
3 going –
4 Q I am just asking you, you were at one
5 time a pipefitter; is that a fair statement?
6 A I was a pipe coverer.
7 Q Pipe coverer.
8 A Not a fitter.
9 Q Im sorry. Pipe coverer.
10 A You got me confused there.
11 Q I dont want to confuse you because I
12 need you to enlighten me.
13 So you were a pipe coverer, correct?
14 A Correct.
15 Q And you were in a union?
16 A There was a union. It was steamfitters
17 union out of Camden, New Jersey.
18 Q Okay. And what local was that?
19 A I believe it was 54. We are going back
20 quite a few years to remember that little number,
21 but 54, I believe, because that was a short time.

150
1 Q Tell me the years you were a member of
2 the local — of Local 54.
3 A The years would have been 1960 to 61.
4 Q And –
5 A I got a withdrawal card, so it should
6 still be on record somewhere.
7 Q Correct me if I am wrong, but thats a
8 pretty difficult thing to do at that time, to get
9 into the union, right?
10 A Well, it was the union that was working
11 in the shipyard. There was two different unions.
12 There was a pipe coverers union that you couldnt
13 get in, it was a family affair back then on account
14 of the money, but this was in the New York Ship.
15 Q So a different union?
16 A Different way of looking at the local.
17 Q Okay. Were you making what you would
18 term good money working for — working at the
19 shipyard and being in the union?
20 A Nowhere near what I was making with
21 Atlantic Refining Company, no.

151
1 Q Okay. At Atlantic Refinery, you were
2 making good money, what you would consider?
3 A Oh, yes.
4 Q Okay. And then I guess I am trying to
5 figure out in my mind why you — I understand you
6 got laid off, but why you left the whole trade
7 altogether and went to Acme, like totally different
8 kind of business, totally different kind of
9 occupation. Why did you do that?
10 A Acme is a very good company to work for
11 as a driver because thats the Teamsters.
12 Q Okay.
13 A And the Teamsters paid very good. And
14 not only that, but when you have a kid coming on the
15 way and you are just starting out, you take what you
16 can get, and I was lucky enough to get that.
17 Q Okay. You answered my question.
18 Now, when you met Carol in 56, how old
19 was she?
20 A How old was she? Believe it or not,
21 she was only about — I believe about 13 years old.

152
1 Q And how old were you when you met her?
2 A I was about then 18, 19, somewhere in
3 there.
4 Q Which one were you? You told us your
5 birthday is in July, so you were 19.
6 A July 20, yeah. My birthday is in July
7 20th, 38. I was probably around 19.
8 Q Okay. And then you got married in 60?
9 A Um-hmm.
10 Q So that means Carol would have been 17
11 when you got married?
12 A She was. She lied about her age, yes.
13 Q Okay. And where did you get married?
14 A We got married in Philadelphia.
15 Q Before a justice of the peace or –
16 A No. We got married in a Catholic
17 church.
18 Q Okay. And she lied to the priest?
19 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
20 A Whoever she lied about her birth
21 certificate because her father went with her at the

153
1 time. And I guess they wanted her — she didnt
2 have a good life at home, and I guess they wanted
3 her out of the house, to be honest with you. So he
4 did sign the papers for her to get married.
5 Q When you say she didnt have a good
6 life at home — well, strike that.
7 Let me ask you, why did you get married
8 with Carol being relatively very young at that time?
9 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
10 A Ill answer the question. I did not
11 know she was that young. She was very mature for
12 her age. And if you seen her, you would know what I
13 am talking about. And I did not know she was that
14 young, not that it — today it would have made no
15 difference, I guess. And I didnt know.
16 Q I am sorry. I am not sure what
17 question you answered. I have forgotten mine
18 entirely. So hang on one second.
19 MS. WILDSTEIN: Could you repeat that
20 back for me, please?
21 Not you, the court reporter.

154
1 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
2 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
3 Q In fairness to you, you meant to say
4 that Carol was mature for her age, correct?
5 A Yes. Yes. Yes.
6 Q Okay. All right. And then let me ask
7 you this. My question again to you is this. Carol
8 was relatively young when you got married, age 17?
9 A Correct.
10 Q And you knew she was age 17 when you
11 married her? After all, you had been dating her for
12 four years at that time, correct?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
14 A I did not know she was 17.
15 Q You didnt know she was 17?
16 A No.
17 Q How old did you think she was?
18 A Eighteen.
19 Q So when you met her, you thought she
20 was 14?
21 A Yes.

155
1 Q So she lied to you?
2 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
3 A No. She didnt lie to me — she lied
4 to me about her age, yes.
5 Q Okay. So its the same question that I
6 am asking. Maybe I am asking it in a poor way. I
7 am asking you why did you get married when Carol was
8 17 or what you thought 18?
9 A If you thought it was her being
10 pregnant, no. We had a child a year and a half
11 afterwards.
12 Q Okay. But thats not what I am asking
13 you. I am asking you why did you get married?
14 A Because I loved her.
15 Q Okay.
16 A And we loved each other, thats why.
17 Q Okay. Did Carol need to get out of her
18 house or did she tell you that she had to get out of
19 her house?
20 A She didnt tell me she had to get out
21 of her house, but she wanted to get out of there,

156
1 yes.
2 Q Okay. I am going to switch gears, and
3 I want to ask you a little bit about your work
4 history.
5 I am going to start with Atlantic. Is
6 it okay if I call it Atlantic? You will know what I
7 am referring to?
8 A Whatever you — yes.
9 Q Whatever I want to call it?
10 Okay. Lets talk about Atlantic. And
11 tell me, please — I am going to categorize my
12 questions. And when I am moving on, I will tell you
13 I am moving on. Okay?
14 But the first category I am going to
15 talk about is while you were at Atlantic, you told
16 me or you told us that you worked on pipes, correct?
17 A Correct.
18 Q Okay. And you told us that some of the
19 pipes were steam and some were other.
20 A No. Well, there was some — well,
21 naturally, water pipes, yes, going up to bathrooms

157
1 and whatnot, yes.
2 Q Sure.
3 Okay. So I want to talk about that in
4 a little bit more depth.
5 Did you work on chill water pipes while
6 you were at Atlantic?
7 A Chilled water pipes?
8 Q Yes.
9 A We worked on every — all pipes in
10 there.
11 Q Okay. Now, when you say all,
12 unfortunately, I have been confined to offices like
13 this for my entire career, and I dont know when you
14 say all what you are referring to. So be more
15 specific with me, please. You worked on steam pipes
16 at Atlantic, correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q You worked on chill water pipes,
19 correct?
20 A I worked on water pipes, steam pipes,
21 yes, air lines, anything that had piping.

158
1 Q Okay. When you say water pipes and I
2 say chill water pipes, are you making a distinction
3 that Im unaware of or are you referring to the same
4 thing?
5 A What do you consider chill water pipes?
6 Q How about I ask you that? You would
7 know better than I. What do you consider a chill
8 water –
9 A Cold and hot.
10 Q Okay.
11 A I worked on them both.
12 Q And what do you consider just a water
13 pipe when you are saying water?
14 A I consider a water pipe that has water
15 running through it.
16 Q Cold or hot?
17 A Cold or hot.
18 Q Okay. So then you distinguish in your
19 mind, Im assuming, and I am asking you, chill water
20 from just a water pipe –
21 A The water pipe.

159
1 Q — because chill water is just chill
2 water, not hot water, correct?
3 A Right.
4 Q Okay. So I am going to group them
5 separately. I am going to talk about steam pipes, I
6 am going to talk about water pipes, I am going to
7 talk about chill water pipes.
8 What other types of pipes did you work
9 on?
10 A The pipes, the water lines going into
11 the boiler. There was a water feed, you know, that
12 came off the feed pumps for the water.
13 Q Were they called feed pipes or what
14 were they called?
15 A To me, they were just pipes that
16 needed — if they needed repair, they needed repair.
17 Q And where were they going to?
18 A To feed the water for the boiler.
19 Q Okay. Any other types of pipes?
20 A There was air lines, yes.
21 Q What else?

160
1 A And then there was steam pipes, loads
2 of steam pipes.
3 Q Okay. So we talked about steam pipes,
4 we talked about water pipes, then we talked about
5 chill water pipes.
6 A Yes. And there is the condenser –
7 there is the evaporator and had a lot of the water
8 pipes on it, too.
9 Q Okay. But just listen to my questions
10 to you. I think I will cover everything. And if I
11 dont, you have questions of me at the end, I will
12 give you ample opportunity to ask them.
13 But what Im asking you now is I want
14 to know all the types of pipe you worked on. I am
15 going to go down my list. If there is something
16 Ive missed, let me know.
17 You told me you worked on steam pipes?
18 A Correct.
19 Q You told me you worked on water pipes?
20 A Yes.
21 Q You told me you worked on chill water

161
1 pipes, you told me you worked on pipes that fed into
2 the boiler, and you told me you worked on air line
3 pipes?
4 A Yes. Correct.
5 Q Any other type of pipe that you worked
6 on at Atlantic that Ive missed?
7 A Yes. You had pipes to bring in the
8 saltwater also.
9 Q Okay. Any others?
10 A On that end, no.
11 Q Okay.
12 A No, because I was concentrating on –
13 because I thought what this was about was what I
14 worked with with the steam, and thats why I didnt
15 mention the other because the water pipes — we had
16 valves now, if we want to go into them. They had a
17 lot of valves, which I did the packing on them also.
18 Q Okay. I get easily confused. You
19 dont know me, but I promise. I couldnt even work
20 my BlackBerry. So let me take it in turn and ask
21 you the questions.

162
1 A Um-hmm.
2 Q Okay? And then at the end, you can
3 fill me in on anything else you want to tell me.
4 A Okay.
5 Q All right?
6 All right. So you have now told me all
7 the pipes you worked on at Atlantic?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Nothing Ive missed, right?
10 A Not much that I can say, no.
11 Q Okay. All right. Now I am going to go
12 through each of them. And I want you to tell me the
13 percentage of time that you worked on each of them
14 if we are starting with a pie of a hundred percent.
15 Okay? I am going to walk you through it.
16 What percentage of the time did you
17 work on pipes that were saltwater pipes?
18 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
19 A I can answer it. Saltwater pipes is
20 usually done — they were the sea suction pipes.
21 They were the big ones with the big valves on. A

163
1 lot of that was done in the shipyard.
2 Q Okay. Thats not my question to you
3 though. My question to you is what percentage of
4 time did you work on pipes that were saltwater
5 pipes?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
7 A I couldnt give you a percent because
8 most of the time that was done by the shipyard. The
9 big saltwater pipes was the sea suction pipes.
10 Q I am not concerned about what was done
11 by anybody else. I am only asking what you did.
12 A No. I worked on very little.
13 Q Okay. So would you say 5 percent, 10
14 percent, something other than that?
15 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
16 A Yeah. Maybe 5, I dont know, 5
17 percent.
18 Q Okay. What percentage of the time did
19 you work on air lines?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
21 Q You can answer my questions.

164
1 A I really dont know.
2 Q Well, again, let me explain –
3 MR. TANKARD: Asked and answered.
4 MS. WILDSTEIN: Your objection is
5 noted.
6 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
7 Q Let me explain it to you again. Okay?
8 You have been pretty precise with what you remember
9 and havent remembered you said because you loved
10 the job, right?
11 A Um-hmm. Yes.
12 Q Is that true?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. So now I am asking you some
15 specific questions about that job that you loved. I
16 am asking you — I am telling you all different
17 types of pipes.
18 A Right.
19 Q I am starting with a hundred percent of
20 your time.
21 A All right.

165
1 Q I am asking you to go through it and
2 break down for me — give me your best estimate as
3 to what percentage of time you worked on each of
4 those types of pipes. Do you understand that?
5 A Yeah. Go ahead.
6 Q Okay. I am going to start again.
7 What percentage of time did you work on
8 the pipes that were saltwater?
9 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
10 A Saltwater, what it is is I –
11 Q I am not asking you what it is. I am
12 asking you percentage of time you worked on them.
13 MR. TANKARD: He has told you he
14 doesnt know.
15 A Very low.
16 Q Five percent, greater than that?
17 A I dont know.
18 Q Okay. You couldnt give me an
19 estimate?
20 A I cant give you an estimate because a
21 lot of that stuff we didnt have breakdowns with.

166
1 Q Okay. So then you couldnt give me an
2 estimate as to the percentage of time you worked on
3 steam pipes either, correct?
4 A Oh, yes.
5 Q How can you give me an estimate?
6 A I can give you an estimate because that
7 was constant work on them.
8 Q Okay. But you just told me you worked
9 on –
10 A Yeah, but they didnt break down like
11 the steam.
12 Q Please just allow me to finish my
13 question. Okay? You worked on six different types
14 of pipes that you are able to recall here today.
15 Okay?
16 A Yes.
17 Q That means you couldnt have focused a
18 hundred percent of your time on any one type of
19 pipe? Thats fair, right?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
21 Mischaracterizes his testimony. He didnt say that

167
1 he worked on all those pipes.
2 Q Sir, did you testify that you worked on
3 all of those pipes?
4 A I worked on all pipes, yes.
5 Q Okay. Now, I am asking you, if you
6 worked on all those pipes, you could not have spent
7 a hundred percent of your time working on any one
8 pipe. Thats fair, right?
9 A There wasnt no one pipe on them ships.
10 Q One type of pipe. I apologize. Is
11 that a fair statement?
12 A A fair statement.
13 Q Okay. Then I am asking you, can you
14 tell me the percentage of time that you worked on
15 any of those types of pipes?
16 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
17 A On the steam pipes, you did more, so I
18 think — I could say 75 percent easy.
19 Q Okay. And the remainder of the time
20 you worked on which pipes? How much percentage of
21 that remaining 25 percent did you work on chill

168
1 water pipes?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
3 A On chill water pipes — I dont know
4 where you are coming with the chill water pipes.
5 Just water pipes. Water pipes, maybe 10, 15
6 percent, and the other percent on your air lines
7 because air lines you didnt have much problem with.
8 Q Just to avoid confusion, would it be
9 okay if I went down and asked you the questions in
10 order?
11 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
12 Q Thanks.
13 Okay. So you told us you worked on
14 steam pipes 75 percent of the time, right?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Now we are left with five other types
17 of pipes that you said you worked on. I am going to
18 go through each of them and ask you the percentage
19 of time that you worked on each of them. Okay?
20 How frequently did you work on pipes
21 that contained cold materials or water that was not

169
1 hot?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
3 A I couldnt give you a percentage on
4 just one particular pipe. Water pipes, yes, but not
5 just one.
6 Q Okay. Give me a percentage on water
7 pipes.
8 A On water pipes themselves, I would say
9 you had about 10 percent on all, all water pipes.
10 Q Okay. And what percentage of the water
11 pipes were — had cold fluids running through them
12 as opposed to hot?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
14 A What percentage? I have no idea
15 looking back how you could do –
16 Q You couldnt tell me?
17 A I couldnt tell you that.
18 Q Okay. What percentage of pipes that
19 went to the feed boiler did you work on?
20 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
21 A Probably in that — I am still going in

170
1 that percent of pipes.
2 Q That falls into the 75 percent
3 category?
4 A That falls in — no. That falls in the
5 other percent.
6 Q Okay. Go ahead. Tell me what percent.
7 A That would be about, like I said, 10 to
8 15 percent, say, on all those lines, yes.
9 Q Okay. What percentage of time did you
10 work on air lines?
11 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
12 A Very little. So that would be only a
13 small percent.
14 Q Okay. What is small to you?
15 A Well, maybe — probably 5 percent.
16 Q Okay. And what percent of time did you
17 work on pipes with saltwater?
18 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
19 A That would be the remainder percent.
20 Q What would that be?
21 A That would be, what, the other 5.

171
1 Q Okay. So, now, I have categorized it
2 correctly, right, when you told me you worked on
3 steam pipes about 75 percent of the time, all other
4 types of water pipes 10 percent of the time, pipes
5 that fed into a boiler 15 percent of the time, air
6 lines 5 percent of the time, and pipes with
7 saltwater 5 percent of the time?
8 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
9 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
10 A It was water pipes themselves. You
11 have got me where — I consider any pipe that
12 carried water through it as a water pipe.
13 Q I went through this and I asked you the
14 different types of pipes, and you agreed that you
15 worked on pipes with steam, correct?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And you worked on –
18 A That was the main ones. I worked with
19 steam because steam was the ones we had the problems
20 with all the time.
21 Q Okay. And then you told me you worked

172
1 on pipes that contained air, right?
2 A Correct.
3 Q And then you told me you worked on
4 pipes that contained saltwater, correct?
5 A No. The saltwater ones was on the
6 shipyard a very little percent. Like I said before,
7 that was in the shipyard. The only thing we did,
8 maybe put packing in them or something like that.
9 Q Sir, the problem is that we are going
10 to be here all day because I am going to keep
11 repeating my same questions until I get an answer to
12 the question I am posing.
13 MR. KUZMIN: You have already gotten an
14 answer.
15 MR. TANKARD: He has answered it, yes.
16 MR. KUZMIN: And you are not going to
17 keep ask him the same question.
18 MS. WILDSTEIN: You are not allowed to
19 have a speaking objection under New Jersey court
20 rules. Thats first off.
21 MR. KUZMIN: You are sure about that

173
1 one?
2 MS. WILDSTEIN: Yeah.
3 MR. KUZMIN: Okay. Because you are 0
4 for two so far.
5 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
6 Q Now, I am asking you, did you work –
7 not a percentage of time. I am asking you did you
8 work on pipes that contained saltwater?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. Did you work on pipes that
11 contained air?
12 A Air, yes.
13 Q Did you work on pipes that went to a
14 feed boiler?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did you work on pipes that you consider
17 water pipes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And you worked on steam pipes, correct?
20 A Steam pipes is the main one, yes.
21 Q But Im correct?

174
1 A You are correct.
2 Q Okay. So then we agree that there is
3 five different types of pipes that you worked on,
4 correct?
5 A Correct.
6 Q And the percentages that you just gave
7 me previously, were they correct or do I need to go
8 through them again?
9 A You had 75 percent with steam.
10 Q Correct. And then you told me –
11 A And to break it down so you would
12 understand, then it would be 5 percent for each one
13 of the other ones, five that you named, which would
14 be the other 25.
15 Q Okay. Thank you.
16 Now, same exact questions except with
17 regard to pumps. And I am going to move to a
18 different category. I am solely confining my
19 questions to Atlantic. Okay?
20 A Um-hmm.
21 Q For the time that you worked there.

175
1 Did you work on pumps that contained
2 fluids other than hot fluids?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. And did you also work on pumps
5 that contained steam?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Would it be okay if I called the pumps
8 that contained fluids other than hot fluids chill
9 water pipes? Would that be okay for our purposes
10 here?
11 A Yes. The chill water is something that
12 was never — I dont know where thats coming from,
13 but go ahead.
14 Q Okay. Well, then I dont want to use
15 that.
16 What would you call a pump that you
17 worked on that was not a steam pump but that
18 contained cold fluids? What do you term that?
19 A You might have a feed pump which put
20 water into the boilers, and there was a lot of –
21 there was hundreds and hundreds of pumps.

176
1 Q Okay. And thats really what I am
2 trying to ask you. There were hundreds of different
3 types of pumps, correct?
4 A Different types of pumps, yes.
5 Q Okay. And I want to know from you,
6 since you were there, what those pumps contained.
7 Some you told us contained steam, some you told us
8 contained cold fluids, correct?
9 A Yes. But here is the thing. Most
10 everything on that ship was run by steam.
11 In other words, you could have a pump
12 running liquid, but to work that impeller, it might
13 have been steam working that pump.
14 Q Sir, I understand that the times you
15 have been asked these questions from other attorneys
16 they focused on steam. I understand. I understand
17 why you keep going back to that. But thats not
18 what I am asking you. I am asking you other
19 questions. And you need to answer my questions that
20 Im posing to you.
21 MR. TANKARD: Objection. Just ask

177
1 questions.
2 Q Or else I keep having to go over them.
3 MR. TANKARD: Dont make speeches.
4 Just ask questions.
5 MS. WILDSTEIN: Okay. I am just trying
6 to move it along, counsel.
7 MR. TANKARD: No, you are not, clearly
8 not. And the record will reflect that. Ask
9 questions. He will answer questions.
10 MS. WILDSTEIN: So you told us that –
11 are you representing him?
12 MR. TANKARD: No, but I think its
13 proper for any deponent to be asked questions.
14 MS. WILDSTEIN: Okay. Your objection
15 is noted.
16 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
17 Q Now, you told us you worked with steam
18 pumps, you told us you worked with feed pumps that
19 contained cold materials. I am asking you what
20 other pumps you worked with.
21 A What other pumps?

178
1 Q Please.
2 A Circulating pumps, pumps for
3 condensers. You had –
4 Q Go ahead. I am listening. Circulating
5 pumps, pumps for condensers.
6 A Circulating, all that.
7 Q What else?
8 A Pumps going to the evaporators, pumps
9 everywhere. Pumps — you know, you had them, then
10 you had to work on them.
11 Q Okay. So you told me so far that you
12 worked on steam pumps, feed pumps, circulating
13 pumps, condenser pumps, evaporator pumps.
14 A Yes.
15 Q What other types of pumps?
16 A You had — now you had pumps for the
17 product also.
18 Q Okay. What product is that?
19 A The products for the crude oil.
20 Q And you worked on them as well?
21 A We worked on them on occasions, yes.

179
1 Q Okay. I think I know the answer to
2 this question, but I am going to ask it anyway. The
3 pumps for the crude oil, they pumped crude oil; is
4 that correct?
5 A Um-hmm.
6 Q Yes?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. All right. Now, you have told
9 us about six different types of pumps. What other
10 kinds of pumps did you work on at Atlantic?
11 A There is different kind of fuel oil
12 pumps also.
13 Q Okay. What other types of pumps?
14 A Well, naturally, water pumps that feed
15 the water for everywhere.
16 Q Thats the pumps we already discussed,
17 right?
18 A Right. And thats all — and I will go
19 back to really nothing to do with any of the lawyers
20 because everything on that ship mainly was steam on
21 account of they didnt have that — they tried to

180
1 avoid whatever they could with electric.
2 Q Sir, I am going to ask you not to
3 provide supplemental answers to my questions.
4 Please just answer my question. It will move us
5 along.
6 You have now told me about steam pumps,
7 feed pumps, circulating pumps, condenser pumps,
8 evaporator pumps, pumps for crude oil, fuel oil
9 pumps. Any other type of pump that you worked on
10 that you can recall as you sit here today?
11 A If it was on that ship, I worked on it.
12 Q Any other pumps –
13 A Not at this present time. But if I
14 worked on it — I mean worked — where I worked at
15 on that ship, I did work on the pumps.
16 Q Would you please allow me to finish my
17 question, and I will extend the same courtesy to
18 you.
19 MR. TANKARD: That would be a start.
20 Q Any other pumps other than what you
21 have just told us that you worked on that you can

181
1 recall as you sit here today?
2 A I cant recall.
3 Q Okay. And I believe what your next
4 statement was is that but if there were other pumps
5 at Atlantic, you worked on them?
6 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
7 A Correct.
8 Q Okay. Now I am going to ask you on a
9 percentage basis again. I am going to go through
10 the list and ask you the percentage of time that you
11 worked on each of the various pumps. Okay?
12 MR. TANKARD: And, counsel, can I have
13 a continuing objection so I dont have to object
14 each time to this specific line of questions?
15 MS. WILDSTEIN: Sure.
16 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
17 Q What percentage of time did you work on
18 condenser pumps?
19 A I couldnt give how many times 50 years
20 ago. You know, I worked on them.
21 Q Okay. Because it was a long time ago,

182
1 right?
2 A A long time ago. I mean, I did work on
3 them.
4 Q Okay. And what percentage of time did
5 you work on evaporator pumps?
6 A I couldnt give you a percentage.
7 Q And what percentage of time did you
8 work on pumps with crude oil?
9 A I couldnt give you a percentage.
10 Q What percentage of time did you work on
11 feed pumps?
12 A I couldnt give you a percentage.
13 Q What percentage of time did you work on
14 steam pumps?
15 A Steam pumps, I couldnt give you a real
16 percentage.
17 Q What percentage of time did you work on
18 fuel oil pumps?
19 A I couldnt give you a percentage. If
20 it was on that ship though, I worked on it.
21 Q Fair enough. All right. Now I will

183
1 move on.
2 You told us here today about some brand
3 names and manufacturers of different types of
4 products, correct?
5 A Right.
6 Q Okay. And you told us that about some
7 of those products, there were other brand names or
8 manufacturers, you just couldnt recall them as you
9 sit here today; is that correct?
10 A There probably was, if I remember, yes.
11 There might have been some oddball ones.
12 Q Okay. And there were other brand names
13 and manufacturers of gaskets than what you testified
14 here to today, you just cant recall them, correct?
15 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
16 A No. The gaskets, I dont remember any
17 other ones.
18 Q Okay. I am going to ask you some
19 names, and if you recall it, just let me know,
20 please.
21 A All right.

184
1 Q Did you ever work on any gaskets
2 manufactured by JM, Johns-Manville plant?
3 A Yes, asbestos gaskets.
4 Q Yeah.
5 Okay. And did you work on — I am
6 assuming that you worked with their packing, too,
7 the Johns-Manville packing?
8 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
9 A Well, we worked on with — especially
10 with some of the products, yes.
11 Q Okay.
12 A Whatever the products, John-Mansville,
13 naturally, we worked with. We did.
14 Q Okay. And I am assuming as well that
15 you worked with Johns-Manville insulation?
16 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
17 Q Is that correct?
18 A At times it was both. Whatever the
19 warehouse had for the refinery, thats what we put
20 on board.
21 Q Okay. And did you work with packing

185
1 or, Im sorry, gaskets manufactured by Ruberoid?
2 A I dont recall.
3 Q Okay. Did you work with gaskets
4 manufactured by Gypsum?
5 A I dont recall.
6 Q Did you work with any material
7 manufactured by Gypsum?
8 A Not back then, no. I dont remember –
9 I dont recall that, Gypsum. I only remember the
10 names of the ones that I worked with.
11 Q Sure.
12 I am just going to ask you some
13 other –
14 A No.
15 Q Okay.
16 A Not that I can remember.
17 Q But like you saw, you remembered
18 Johns-Manville when I brought it up.
19 A Yeah, I remember because that was what
20 we — and — yes, John-Mansville.
21 Q Why do you remember that one? That was

186
1 the one –
2 A Because that was — see, the warehouse
3 was pretty big they had.
4 Q Yes.
5 A And the refinery was used in
6 Philadelphia. So they had box after boxes of this
7 stuff in there. And we would go in and get what we
8 needed in supplies. And then we would have to
9 escape back in the ship. But we didnt have no
10 elevators on there, so we had to carry it down. So
11 you are carrying these boxes and taking them down
12 there. You see what was on the box.
13 Q Sure.
14 Did you work with gaskets manufactured
15 by Flexitallic? They were spiral-wound blue
16 gaskets.
17 MR. KUZMIN: Place a continuing
18 objection on the record –
19 A No.
20 MR. KUZMIN: — to questions not
21 related to any product –

187
1 A I cant recall.
2 MR. KUZMIN: — not identified in this
3 lawsuit or in the Answers to Interrogatories.
4 Q Did you ever work with any gaskets that
5 were used specifically for high temperature, high
6 pressure, high steam type applications?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And do you know the names of those?
9 A Garlock was the big one, and your other
10 ones — just about all the gaskets we used for steam
11 was for high steam.
12 Q Okay. So now you told me about John
13 Crane, Garlock –
14 A Yes.
15 Q Johns-Manville.
16 Any others that you can recall now that
17 we are talking about it of the gaskets?
18 A Gaskets, no.
19 Q Okay. How about packing? You told me
20 about Garlock, John Crane and Johns-Manville.
21 A I didnt say packing was

188
1 John-Mansville, no.
2 Q Oh, Im sorry. I thought you did.
3 A No.
4 Q Okay. Did you ever work with any
5 Johns-Manville packing?
6 A Not that I recall with the packing, no.
7 Q Okay. Did you ever work with any
8 packing manufactured by Owens-Corning?
9 A No.
10 Q Did you ever work with any gaskets
11 manufactured by Owens-Corning?
12 A No. Just what I mentioned was the only
13 ones I can remember.
14 Q Were there other brand names or
15 manufacturers of packing that you worked with but
16 you just cant recall them as you sit here today?
17 MS. HAUSSLER: Objection.
18 A No, not the packing, no. That was the
19 only ones.
20 Q Okay. Now, what percentage of time –
21 well, you told us that — when you were at Atlantic,

189
1 you told us all the things that you did?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. And you did pipe covering,
4 correct?
5 A At Atlantic, you did everything. You
6 were maintenance.
7 Q Okay. So you did cleanup?
8 A Cleanup.
9 Q You did pipe covering at Atlantic?
10 A Yes, insulation on it. Everything that
11 needed to be — there was a limit to how many
12 people. It was only three of us as far as the
13 maintenance people.
14 Q Okay. I just want to go down in turn
15 because I want to make sure I understand you. You
16 did pipe covering at Atlantic, you did cleanup, you
17 also removed boxes from the trucks and took them to
18 storage? Is that what you told us?
19 A When we were in port, we had to load
20 our stores on, yes.
21 Q Okay. And what else did you do?

190
1 A We did all the work on valves,
2 rebuilding and pumps and whatnot with — we always
3 had — usually we had a machinist or a pump man with
4 us lots of times on some of the jobs.
5 Q You worked on boilers?
6 A Yes, you worked on boilers, but you did
7 most of that work in the shipyard, they would work
8 on boilers. And the only thing we would do is like
9 a line, like I was saying before, a feed line,
10 something like that, covering it.
11 Q Okay. So I am just trying to
12 understand everything you personally did, not
13 anybody else.
14 A Anything on that ship we maintained.
15 Q Okay. Well, give me an example of
16 something else you might have maintained other than
17 what you told me. You told me pipe covering,
18 cleanup, load storage, valves, boilers. What else
19 did you do?
20 A Steam winches.
21 Q What is that?

191
1 A Thats what brings up the anchor and
2 tightens up the ropes.
3 Q How do you do that?
4 A That was run by steam. I didnt do
5 that.
6 Q I just want to know what you did.
7 A I just did the repair — say a line,
8 steam line or something on that started leaking, we
9 would have to repair it.
10 Q Okay. Any other tasks that you
11 performed on board ship?
12 A Yeah. Serving meals when I was a mess
13 boy.
14 Q Okay. I should have confined my
15 questions. I apologize.
16 Other than when you were a mess boy
17 serving meals, any other tasks that you did that we
18 havent discussed?
19 A Anything that needed maintenance on
20 that — in that engine room, fireroom, and even
21 anything that connected with any lines on deck we

192
1 did.
2 Q Like what types of lines on deck?
3 A The lines going to the winches, anchor
4 for the anchors up there, everything like that, and
5 the midships. There was lines going to midships.
6 And then you had steam lines to keep the crude, if
7 it was wintertime, try to keep it where it wasnt
8 freezing up too bad to get off, loads of them.
9 Q Okay. Somebody once told me that — I
10 thought in the position that you are that they would
11 sometimes have to clean up the deck, mop it. Did
12 you ever have to do that sort of thing?
13 A No. That was a seaman on top of the
14 deck. We did the mopping down below, yes, and
15 cleaning up all that stuff that got all over you.
16 Yeah, you are right.
17 Q Did you ever have to work on any of the
18 lines for fire hoses?
19 A Just put out the hoses to load the
20 water on. And that was in port.
21 Q Okay. Now, of the job duties you have

193
1 just described for me, could you give me any type of
2 percentage breakdown as to how much you performed of
3 any of the particular jobs?
4 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
5 A Eight hours a day. Any job that was
6 mentioned, we did it eight hours, all these jobs.
7 Q Then its fair to say that you could
8 not give me a percentage breakdown as to how much
9 you spent on one particular job?
10 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
11 A No. No.
12 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I have to stop and
13 change the tape.
14 MS. WILDSTEIN: Sure. Go ahead.
15 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
16 number 3 of our deposition. The time is 12:52.
17 (Whereupon, pause in the proceedings.)
18 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This is tape
19 number 4 of our video deposition of Mr. Berglund.
20 The time is 12:56.
21 MS. WILDSTEIN: Mr. Berglund, I am just

194
1 going to need to ask the court reporter to read back
2 my last question and the answer, please, because I
3 think you gave me one.
4 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
5 MR. KUZMIN: Did you note my objection
6 on that?
7 THE REPORTER: Yes.
8 MR. KUZMIN: Thank you.
9 THE REPORTER: Yes. I just didnt read
10 that. Im sorry.
11 MR. KUZMIN: Thats all right. Im
12 just making sure.
13 MS. WILDSTEIN: Its the definition of
14 continuing.
15 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
16 Q I just want to backtrack for a moment
17 and ask you some other questions before I forget
18 about them.
19 The only familiarity I have with this
20 is An Officer and a Gentleman. Did you see that
21 movie?

195
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay. And when he would leave the
3 base, he had to have his bags inspected. Did you
4 have to have the same thing when you were aboard
5 ship?
6 A No. No, because coast-wise, when you
7 are running to Texas, you dont have no customs or
8 anything. The only time is if you go foreign. And
9 the only thing they had was a dog at the end of the
10 gangway.
11 Q Okay. You didnt have to open your bag
12 or empty it?
13 A No. No. Back then, no.
14 Q Okay. Oh, all right. And then who
15 were your coworkers while you worked at Atlantic?
16 A Who were they?
17 Q Yeah.
18 A Well, I was — lets put it — I was
19 the youngest one there. Everybody was pretty old.
20 I was — and I am 70 years old. I have no idea now.
21 They are probably all dead. Every one of them was

196
1 at least 20 years older, ten or 20 years older than
2 me.
3 Q Can you remember anyones name?
4 A Yeah. There was a lot them in the
5 families in Ocean City area. Buntings, McCabes.
6 But all them worked on deck. I was the only nut
7 that went down in the engine room.
8 Q Okay. I am going to ask you about that
9 in a moment. But first I just want to stick to the
10 coworkers. And you dont remember any living
11 coworkers; is that correct?
12 A I never kept in touch with any of them,
13 no, because the outfit that I worked with went to
14 California, and thats where all the guys went, down
15 to Oakland to Alaska.
16 Q Okay. So its fair to say that you
17 dont know if they are living or dead, but you would
18 assume they are?
19 A I have no idea if they are living or
20 dead.
21 Q Okay. Then please do for me this.

197
1 Give me the names of all coworkers that you can
2 recall. Just shout them out.
3 A Victor Bunting, Bob Bunting, McCabe,
4 Bill McCabe, and Jules Vickers and Dallas Robinson.
5 Robbins, rather. Robbins. I mean, thats a few
6 that I can recall right offhand.
7 Q Okay. If you can recall any others, I
8 am very interested in that information. Would you
9 just let me know, and we will stop and you can tell
10 me?
11 A Yeah, I can.
12 Q Can you recall any others now because I
13 am interested in all the ones you can recall?
14 Anybody else?
15 A No, I cant really recall. Captain
16 Redicker, (phonetic). There was a Redicker that was
17 a Captain Redicker. And then –
18 Q He was your captain?
19 A He was on one of the ships that I was.
20 Q Which ship?
21 A I forget which one offhand. But he was

198
1 about 60 years old then. So I imagine you will find
2 him somewhere, but I dont think he is going to be
3 alive.
4 Q Okay. Then he wont be subjected to
5 what you have been subjected to. We will spare him.
6 Go ahead. Anybody else? Especially
7 captains I am interested in. Any other captains you
8 can recall or supervisors?
9 A Not offhand, no.
10 Q Okay. If you think of any, will you
11 let me know?
12 A Yeah. Oh, engineer, I think his name
13 was Hudson. He was pretty — you are talking people
14 who were a lot older than me.
15 Q Sure.
16 What was Hudsons first name?
17 A I forget. He was one of the chiefs. I
18 mean, they were — like I say, I was the youngest
19 one the company had.
20 Q Sure.
21 Anybody else you can think of?

199
1 A Not offhand.
2 Q Okay.
3 A I mean, you are talking about in the
4 50s.
5 Q Sure.
6 A You know, its hard to think about
7 somebody you even knew ten years ago.
8 Q Okay. Why were you the nut to go to
9 the engine room?
10 A Well, there was no air conditioning
11 down there back then. Its a hundred — you had a
12 good day if it was about 110.
13 Q Why did you go to the engine room then?
14 A Because I knew I could learn a little
15 bit more about things and advance.
16 Q So you –
17 A On deck, you didnt — Im sorry. I
18 didnt mean to interrupt you.
19 Q No, go ahead. I interrupted you.
20 A On deck, you are just a seaman. You
21 can build yourself up to a captain if you sail, I

200
1 guess, forever. But in the engine room, you had a
2 faster chance to be something.
3 I mean, you could always go down and be
4 a stationary engineer or something on — you know,
5 in a big building, anything, a fireman.
6 Q So you were thinking about your future
7 and career advancement?
8 A Yes. Yes. Thats why I ended up in
9 the engine room.
10 Q And you chose to do that?
11 A Yes. I was good with working around
12 stuff like pumps and all, too.
13 Q Now, you told us — you started to tell
14 us, and I just want to discuss it a little bit,
15 that — I thought you said that working in the
16 engine room was — and I am paraphrasing because I
17 dont know if this was your exact wording –
18 dangerous because a gasket could fly off or
19 something could hit you in the head. Is that what
20 you told us earlier?
21 A Well, your biggest concern was when the

201
1 ship was rocking and you are working on something
2 thats up in the — three stories up and those
3 massive pipes slips and falls. I mean, we didnt
4 even have no life back then, no harnesses, no
5 nothing. You might tie a rope around you and hope
6 you are all right working.
7 Or the other thing is, you know, you
8 are subject to going down the steps because it was
9 all metal and they go straight down. The gangways
10 are slippery.
11 Q Forgive me if I am wrong, but working
12 on the Atlantic was a more dangerous occupation
13 than, lets say, working at Acme, right?
14 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
15 A Oh, yes, way more.
16 Q Okay. And would you even consider it,
17 you know, a hazardous occupation, in a sense?
18 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
19 A Well, I guess thats why I am here, it
20 was hazardous.
21 Q Okay. And hazardous not just for the

202
1 reason you are here, but hazardous for the other
2 reasons you told us as well, slipping, being on a
3 ship, being hit by things falling; is that correct?
4 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
5 A Um-hmm.
6 Q Yes?
7 A You could have that. You could have –
8 well, I guess you could have it everywhere. But on
9 there — picture a ship rocking.
10 Q Yeah. But you loved it, nonetheless?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And had your wife not asked you to
13 stop, would you have continued working on that?
14 A I would have been, yes. I would have
15 been retired from them. They talked to me –
16 Atlantic, their main people talked to me for hours
17 to stay. I would have been the youngest engineer
18 they ever had.
19 Q Wow, thats impressive. It is
20 impressive.
21 All right. Let me go back to my

203
1 laundry list of things here, speaking of which,
2 lets talk laundry a moment.
3 Now, while you knew Carol, I am
4 assuming, and you correct me if I am wrong, that
5 there were times you didnt ask her to wash your
6 clothing, for whatever reason; is that fair to say?
7 A It is fair. And there was times, like
8 in the beginning, naturally — I mean, I did my wash
9 in the beginning.
10 Q Because you wanted a second date,
11 right?
12 A It was a little while, after — end of
13 57, yes, when I finally, you know, I did the wash
14 because I was complaining — how that came about, I
15 was complaining about it, and a couple times I had
16 dirty clothes on and, you know, I came, and she
17 said, you know, about the wash. I said, how about,
18 would you wash it? And I got her to — talked her
19 into it.
20 Q Okay. You must have been some smooth
21 talker, Ill tell you.

204
1 All right. Did you — I am assuming
2 you did not, but did you compensate her in any way
3 for doing that wash? Did you pay her or anything?
4 A No, I didnt pay her, you know. We
5 just went — you know, I used to take her out to
6 dinner and things like that, you know, afterwards
7 when we had some time. And then I had a lot of — I
8 had vacation, too, you know, vacation time, and we
9 would spend it together.
10 Q Sure.
11 Okay. Was your mother alive at that
12 time?
13 A At that time, yes.
14 Q Did your mom ever do the wash or did
15 you have any sisters that would help out and do the
16 wash?
17 A No, because we were down on the farm.
18 We were there for a short time. And Carol had to do
19 my wash there. There was nobody to do it.
20 Q Okay. How about before you went to the
21 farm, is it fair to say sometimes your mother did

205
1 your wash?
2 A No, not at all because I wouldnt
3 bother going down there then. I would stay at South
4 Philadelphia.
5 Q Oh, you would stay at Carols house?
6 A At Carols. I could stay there if I
7 had the time to stay there. Lots of times I didnt.
8 And I could stay there. I could sleep on the couch.
9 Because it was her mothers house. And I would
10 sleep on the couch and stay there, yes. I would
11 stay there lots of times.
12 Q Okay. Even when you first started
13 dating her, you would stay there?
14 A Not the first few months, naturally.
15 It would be right after — everything started in
16 57.
17 Q Okay. You talked about a machine shop
18 at Atlantic, correct?
19 A Yes. That was right inside where
20 everything else was, a little area where you had a
21 lathe and you had vises and whatnot, and you could

206
1 work on different things and make things if you had
2 to.
3 Q Okay. Describe for me, please, what
4 you did in the machine shop because I wasnt sure I
5 understood that.
6 A All right. Well, say we had a valve
7 that we couldnt work on right as it was sitting on
8 the line. You took it off and you took it in the
9 machine shop and you could lay it on a table which
10 made it a lot easier to tear it apart.
11 Q Give me the configurations of the
12 machine shop, please, dimensions. Was it as big as
13 a football field, something less than that?
14 A The whole engine room isnt even a
15 tenth of a football field.
16 Q Okay.
17 A It was about — to be honest with you,
18 it was about the size of this room.
19 Q Okay. And what size is this room?
20 A I havent — whatever size. It was
21 about — I am just looking at it. Say its 12 by –

207
1 it might have been 12 by 12, say.
2 Q Okay. And where was the machine shop
3 located? Was it on a different place on each ship?
4 A It was on a couple levels in the same
5 area where the boiler and everything was but on a
6 couple decks up.
7 Q Okay. Was it open air ventilation in
8 the machine shop?
9 In other words, did air from the
10 outside come in?
11 A No. No.
12 Q What type of ventilation was in the
13 machine shop?
14 A It was just an area, open.
15 Q So there wasnt any –
16 A In other words, it was just open.
17 There was no doors or anything.
18 Q Oh, so it was open to the outside?
19 A It was an open little area that you had
20 that you could work on something.
21 Q Okay. Give me a percentage. And you

208
1 can even tell me the majority of the time, you know,
2 half the time, something other than that. What
3 percentage did you used to take the valves to the
4 machine shop to work on as opposed to working on
5 them where they were at?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
7 A I couldnt give you a percentage on
8 that.
9 Q You couldnt tell me more frequently –
10 A I couldnt tell you exactly how many
11 times I did it. I just did it.
12 Q Okay.
13 A Thats all I can tell you.
14 Q Let me see if I can clarify. And if I
15 cant, we will move on.
16 What I am looking for is your best
17 estimate. Its okay to estimate or approximate.
18 Just let me know you are doing that. I understand
19 you cant give me an exact number, but can you give
20 me an estimation or approximation as to what
21 percentage of time you would take valves to the

209
1 machine shop to work on?
2 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
3 Q Would you say half the time, something
4 greater than that, something less than that?
5 A Well, its all according to what size
6 valve and what — you know, and the packing I would
7 have to tear out of it. Its — I couldnt give you
8 a real estimate of how long it took.
9 Q Thats not what I am asking. My
10 question is poor. Let me try and rephrase it.
11 I am asking you what percentage of time
12 did you take valves to the machine shop to work on
13 as opposed to working on –
14 A I couldnt give you an answer on that.
15 Q Okay. You cant give me a percentage?
16 A No, I cant give you a percentage.
17 Q You just know you did it?
18 A I know I did it.
19 Q All right. Now, I want to talk about
20 pipes for a moment. Okay?
21 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)

210
1 Q And in specific, I am going to ask you
2 what — and I am going to confine all my questions
3 just to pipes for now until I tell you differently.
4 You both removed and installed gaskets
5 on pipes, correct?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Okay. What percentage of time did you
8 remove as opposed to install? Would you say it was
9 half/half, every time you removed a gasket, you
10 installed a gasket?
11 A You would have to install the gasket if
12 you removed a gasket, yes.
13 Q Okay. And its fair to say there is no
14 way to tell a brand name or a manufacturer of a
15 gasket upon removal, correct?
16 A Well, you had to put a new one in and
17 you had to go up and take it out of the storeroom
18 which was in the containers. And some of the
19 gaskets — when you say gaskets, there is packing
20 and there is gaskets. There is both.
21 Q Let me stop you. You know I am

211
1 specific already, right? We have been talking for a
2 while now. I am asking you a specific question
3 about gaskets, not packing.
4 A Okay.
5 Q When I want to talk about packing, Ill
6 move on.
7 A Yes.
8 Q I am solely confining my questions to
9 pipes now, not pumps. Okay? I am solely talking
10 about pipes, I am solely talking about gaskets.
11 And I am asking you, could you tell a
12 brand name or manufacturer of a gasket upon removal?
13 Not installation, when you are taking one out. You
14 couldnt tell the brand name or manufacturer, could
15 you?
16 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
17 A Well, lots of times we are taking the
18 same gasket out I might have put in a week ago
19 because if that thing was a little out of line, it
20 might blow it again. So I am taking — I did know
21 what — most of the time what kind of gaskets.

212
1 Q Most of the time you were –
2 A Most of the time, yes, because it would
3 be the same — it might be the same line that kept
4 on blowing.
5 Q Okay. Wouldnt that be that someone is
6 not doing their job right if the same line keeps
7 blowing a gasket every week?
8 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
9 A Well, it could be a lot of things. It
10 could be if you had bad weather and that ship starts
11 vibrating. Sometimes it vibrated so bad — you had
12 a lot of things like that.
13 Q Gaskets just blowing off?
14 A Gaskets might leak. They dont have to
15 blow off. They wanted them fixed if it leaked. It
16 was a danger to anybody.
17 Q So if its leaking, that means you just
18 took it right off, right, when you removed it?
19 A If it was leaking, it still had that
20 steam going through it, and it still was a pain in
21 the neck to get it off.

213
1 Q Okay. Let me just go over your
2 testimony. Are you telling me that there was a lot
3 of times that you would be changing a gasket on the
4 same line every other week?
5 A It is a possibility you could change it
6 more than once or twice in a trip, yes.
7 Q Are you telling me that thats an
8 exception as opposed to the rule?
9 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
10 A That would be an exception probably
11 according to the rule. Like I said, vibration.
12 Q But that would be a rare thing, right?
13 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
14 A Not really rare because a lot of that
15 area was subject to a lot of vibration.
16 Q So what percentage of time would you
17 have to change the same gasket on a weekly basis?
18 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
19 A I couldnt give you –
20 Q Would you say that happened more than 5
21 percent of the time?

214
1 A No, but it did happen.
2 Q Okay. Now, it didnt happen more than
3 5 percent of the time.
4 The other 95 percent of the time, is it
5 fair to say when you are going about changing a
6 gasket on a steam pipe, you could not tell a brand
7 name or manufacturer of the gasket you are removing?
8 MR. KUZMIN: Form.
9 A Well, you would be tearing it off.
10 Naturally, you dont see a name on there when you
11 are scraping it.
12 Q So I am correct?
13 A You are correct in some way. But, like
14 I said, lots of times it would be the same gaskets
15 going in there.
16 Q Thats okay. But you answered my
17 question, right?
18 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
19 Q Yes?
20 A Um-hmm. Yes.
21 Q Okay. Now, of the 50 percent of the

215
1 time that you installed gaskets on pipes, where did
2 you get the gaskets from?
3 A Out of our little area storeroom we
4 had.
5 Q How were the gaskets stored in the
6 storeroom?
7 A The gaskets that we didnt have to
8 cut — because some of it we had to cut out of
9 sheets and make a gasket if we didnt have it. They
10 were stored on — for different sizes, we had
11 them — we took them out. They had taken them out
12 of the boxes and had them up on — for the different
13 size pipe.
14 Q So the gaskets were out of the boxes
15 and –
16 A Yes. And up on racks.
17 Q On racks.
18 A For the different sizes. And there was
19 times when — out there you cant go to the store.
20 You had the rolls of the asbestos and gasket
21 material and you would make a gasket.

216
1 Q Okay. Now, did you actually go into
2 the storeroom and retrieve the gaskets yourself or
3 did you send somebody else to do it, or when you got
4 to the storeroom, did somebody else take it down and
5 get it for you? You tell me, how did it work?
6 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
7 A Well, if I was doing the job, I better
8 be the one to go and get the gasket. I didnt have
9 nobody to do it.
10 Q Okay.
11 A And I would be the one if I needed to
12 make one to make one.
13 Q Now, my question is when you got to the
14 storeroom, was there a clerk that would hand you the
15 gasket or did you actually go up on the shelves and
16 get it yourself?
17 A There was no clerks. I wasnt on a
18 cruise liner.
19 Q Okay. So you went up and got it. Very
20 funny.
21 Okay. Now, what percentage of time

217
1 would you make a gasket as opposed to a preformed
2 gasket already cut?
3 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
4 A I couldnt give you an estimate on
5 that. I was always hoping there would be one
6 already made that you didnt have to. But it was
7 the same material.
8 Q Right.
9 But it was easier that way; is that
10 right, to have it already cut for you?
11 A Yes, it was so much easier.
12 Q Okay. Would you say that 95 percent of
13 the time you used preformed gaskets, gaskets already
14 made?
15 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
16 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
17 A I couldnt give you an estimate how
18 much time. I couldnt give you that.
19 Q Would you say the majority of the time?
20 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
21 A Ill tell you why I cant give it to

218
1 you. Because some things were big, and I did make a
2 lot of gaskets. So I cant really give you an
3 estimate of how long, so — I couldnt give you an
4 estimate.
5 Q Okay. You used the word a lot here
6 today. You used the word a lot a lot. Okay? Do
7 you understand what I am saying?
8 A Um-hmm.
9 Q Do you have a percentage basis of what
10 a lot means?
11 A Most of the time.
12 Q What percentage is a lot?
13 A I guess — well, more than that.
14 Its — I couldnt give you an exact answer on it.
15 A lot is — I worked on a lot of different things on
16 there. Pumps — say I was talking about pumps.
17 Okay. I worked on a lot of pumps.
18 Q Okay.
19 A And say I am working on valves. I
20 worked on a lot of valves. I couldnt give you –
21 Q So if I am trying to quantify what you

219
1 meant by a lot, I cant do it because you cant do
2 it, correct?
3 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
4 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
5 A Well, it was a good bit, how about that
6 one?
7 Q That doesnt do me much better. If you
8 cant give me a percentage, you can tell me.
9 A Percentages — I couldnt give you a
10 percentage of that stuff. We are out at sea and
11 going on a ship and then you have repairs. You
12 are hurrying up and doing it. The percentage thing
13 is — I couldnt give it to you.
14 Q Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.
15 All right. Now, with the removal of
16 gaskets — okay?
17 A Yes.
18 Q I am just talking about the removal.
19 Im not talking about the installation, I am talking
20 about the removal of a gasket on a pipe while you
21 are at Atlantic.

220
1 A Yes.
2 Q What percentage of the time using, for
3 instance — you know, for whatever reason, did the
4 gasket just pop off or slip off when you went to
5 remove it?
6 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
7 A It could be a lot of reasons why the
8 gasket would go.
9 Q Give me some of them, please.
10 A Okay. It could be the pressure, the
11 steam. It could be somebody didnt bolt it up right
12 and didnt torque it right. And the majority of
13 times — I mean, I was in quite a few hurricanes out
14 there. And Ill tell you, you have vibration thats
15 out of this world when that ship is going up and
16 coming down and boom, boom, (indicating). So all
17 these pipes and all, they are doing the same thing,
18 so they start leaking.
19 Q And it –
20 A With steam, yes. And you have got
21 high-pressure steam thats every once in a — all it

221
1 needs is that little bit for that steam to cut
2 through. And once it cuts through, you have to
3 change it.
4 Q Another example of that is you told me
5 that sometimes they would just pop off, and that was
6 a danger?
7 A No, there is no pop off, no. It would
8 break through the gasket.
9 Q And that was a danger to people
10 standing around?
11 A It would be, sure.
12 Q Okay. And is that the same with
13 gaskets on pumps, same kind of things could happen
14 that you just described about gaskets on pipes?
15 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
16 A If it had steam running to it, yes,
17 but –
18 Q Okay. And then could you give me a
19 percentage of time that that type of thing would
20 happen?
21 MR. TANKARD: Objection.

222
1 A No.
2 Q And then I guess you couldnt give me a
3 percentage of time that it wouldnt happen; is that
4 fair?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. Now, you told us some methods
7 that you used to remove a gasket.
8 A Um-hmm.
9 Q What other types of methods did you
10 use?
11 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
12 A Well, you had — most of the time it
13 was with a putty knife or a knife. I used to like
14 to use a knife. Sometimes I would get it started
15 and try to scrape it, but it would never all come
16 off. You just scraped the heck out of it. And then
17 you would use a wire brush also, but you had to be
18 careful you didnt gouge it.
19 Q Okay. You told us about that method
20 previously, the scraping and the wire brush. I am
21 asking you other methods.

223
1 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
2 A I didnt have no other method out
3 there, no.
4 Q Okay. And then how did you go about
5 making a gasket when you had to? Did you use, it
6 sort of looked like a compass and you would go
7 around the gasket, gasket cutter?
8 A A lot of times you would just rough it
9 and cut around, and then — you did have gasket
10 cutters that you could use for the bolts, but lots
11 of times I liked to just put it on there and get a
12 ball-peen hammer, and you would go around and you
13 would break all the holes that you needed for the
14 bolts.
15 Q You would tap the ball-peen hammer
16 against –
17 A You tapped the gasket over the holes,
18 yes.
19 Q Okay. And then you told us about that
20 stuff, I think you called it mud. It was powdery?
21 A Yes. That was the stuff that came in

224
1 the bags.
2 Q Sure.
3 And did you ever mix that powdery
4 fiber?
5 A A lot.
6 Q A lot of times?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. And you poured water in it?
9 A Yes.
10 Q You used a trowel?
11 A You poured water in it and you would
12 mix it up just like concrete because thats what it
13 looked like almost, you know, but it was more white,
14 grayish-white.
15 Q And that was a heck of a dusty process,
16 wasnt it?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And did you ever use something
19 called joint compound?
20 A The joint compound? Not that I recall
21 any joint compounds. They had stuff that went –

225
1 and when you put it around the bolts they had.
2 Q What was that called?
3 A Whatever, Easy-off or some kind of –
4 it looked like a paint.
5 Q Did you ever use Stictite?
6 A No, I cant recall.
7 Q Did you ever see anybody spraying the
8 pipes for fireproofing?
9 A For fireproofing?
10 Q Yep, fireproof spray.
11 A No.
12 Q No?
13 A Not unless they did it in the shipyard.
14 I didnt get involved in that.
15 Q Did you ever see anybody doing it in
16 the shipyard?
17 A No.
18 Q Were you ever at Atlantic when any
19 outside contractors came on board any of the ships?
20 You told us that some outside contractors serviced
21 boilers when you were at the shipyard. When you

226
1 were at Camden Shipyard, you told us about –
2 A No, not Camden. Camden is another
3 story. Thats the Kitty Hawk.
4 Q Okay. So let me not confuse things
5 then. Let me go back to Atlantic.
6 Did you ever see any outside
7 contractors come aboard ship to perform any type of
8 work using asbestos?
9 A Yes, lots of times.
10 Q Tell me their names.
11 A Outside — say their names?
12 Q Yeah.
13 A Okay. Newport News, Key Highway in
14 Baltimore.
15 Q Go ahead.
16 A Pinto Island in Alabama.
17 Q What other ones?
18 A Thats it.
19 Q What did the Newport News outfit do?
20 A Thats where we went on drydock or
21 whatever needed to be done, and they would do their

227
1 inspection.
2 Q So their laborers would be doing the
3 work?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay.
6 A Work — they would be doing work, but
7 we also had to work.
8 Q Okay. And, now, let me ask it in a
9 different way as well. Did you ever see — you told
10 us about some brand names of some products, correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q Did you ever see any outside companies
13 not employed by the United States come on board ship
14 to do any work on any particular products?
15 MR. KUZMIN: Just for clarification,
16 when you –
17 A Foreigners? No, not back then.
18 Q No, not foreigners. I mean people not
19 in — not employed by Atlantic. Any outside
20 employees who would come on board any of the ships?
21 A The shipyard workers, yes.

228
1 Q Anybody else?
2 A Yes. You had people representing,
3 like, Westinghouse, and you had people representing
4 GE, and then you would have the Coast Guard.
5 Q Okay. So you had Westinghouse people
6 come and work on their boilers, correct?
7 A No. Westinghouse came and worked on
8 the turbines after they were — but they didnt do
9 the actual taking the mess off. They — what they
10 did is make sure all the specs was right in the
11 turbine and put the new pieces in that needed to be.
12 Q Okay. And the GE people, what did they
13 do?
14 A GE would do the same thing. Whoever
15 owned those turbines, they would make sure that they
16 took care of them.
17 Q Okay. And any other companies that
18 would come and service their own products?
19 A Whoever was coming on there from the
20 shipyard.
21 Q Okay.

229
1 A We had no way of knowing who was
2 working. There was sometimes 50 people, a hundred
3 people on there doing their tasks. We never knew
4 who it was.
5 Q Did you ever work with any asbestos
6 wire, electrical wire?
7 A Not that I can recall.
8 Q Did you ever see anybody work with it
9 around you?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you ever see anybody wearing
12 asbestos gloves?
13 A Welders had some kind of gloves on. It
14 probably was — and burners, they might have had
15 asbestos. I dont know what they were.
16 Q Did people ever do welding around you
17 while you were at Atlantic?
18 A They very rarely did any welding. In
19 the shipyard, I mean, they might have done a little
20 bit of it, you know, on different things, put
21 something up. But you better not be doing no

230
1 welding while we were at sea.
2 Q Okay. And when you were in the
3 shipyard, did you see people doing welding around
4 you?
5 A In the shipyard?
6 Q Yes.
7 A Yeah, there was people, but you didnt
8 want to go too close to them on account of that –
9 my eyes are bad, but not from the welding, thank
10 goodness. You dont want to be around there because
11 who wants to be around where they are flashing
12 light, you know, they are welding.
13 Q Sure.
14 A You would go away.
15 Q Did you ever wear any type — I
16 understand you told us not on a regular basis, but
17 at any time, did you wear any type of protective
18 clothing such as an apron or overhauls or a bib?
19 A There was no tie-backs, anything issued
20 back then, nothing.
21 Q Did you ever request it and were

231
1 refused?
2 A No, because I never thought we would
3 need it. I didnt know anything. We were ignorant
4 about what we are here for today.
5 Q Sure.
6 When did you come to the belief that
7 asbestos could be hazardous to your health?
8 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
9 A When you started hearing stories
10 through the years. And I got prepped — I work for
11 an environmental outfit now, and I know exactly what
12 everything does.
13 Q Okay. You work for an environmental
14 outfit now. What do you do for that environmental
15 outfit?
16 A I am an equipment operator/driver.
17 Q Okay. And what does that environmental
18 outfit do?
19 A It does any kind of remedial work on
20 anything thats — like oil spills and closing up of
21 places that might have mercury in it and might have

232
1 anything in it, different hazardous material, work
2 at all the nuclear plants, things like that.
3 Q Do they do any asbestos removal or
4 abatement?
5 A No, we dont do any asbestos. Thats
6 separate altogether.
7 Q Okay. What decade did you first come
8 to the belief that asbestos could be hazardous to
9 your health? Was it the 50s, was it the 60s, was
10 it the 70s?
11 A It was no 50s and it was no 60s with
12 it. Probably around the late 70s we knew it,
13 somewhere in there. I dont know. I will tell you
14 when it was. When the guys started dying, they
15 started asking about suits against the shipyard.
16 Q When plaintiffs attorneys started
17 coming to the shipyard?
18 A It could have — about it anyway, guys
19 that I worked with at the shipyard, and they were
20 putting in claims about it. That was actually
21 during the 70s.

233
1 Q I want to ask you about that as well.
2 You told us that you have been
3 approached on various occasions to file a lawsuit
4 for your asbestos-related injury?
5 A Yes. Yes, because then I didnt know I
6 had it.
7 Q Sure.
8 And you were approached by plaintiffs
9 attorneys?
10 A No. I was approached by guys that had
11 it and asked — said that you were working with it,
12 you ought to, you know — we are going to have a –
13 they were going to have a class action or whatever
14 it was back then. I dont know. Anyway, yes, I was
15 approached by it. And as far as I knew, I did not
16 have it, and I thought I was all right.
17 Q On how many occasions did guys ask you
18 to join a class action suit for asbestos exposure?
19 A Some was individual, not even class
20 action, but it was quite a few times.
21 Q Say over five?

234
1 A About — I would say about at least
2 four, four to five, yes. I can be comfortable with
3 that.
4 Q Okay. Now, did you work with gaskets
5 that were made of rubber?
6 A Yes, I did.
7 Q Did you work with gaskets that were
8 made of neoprene?
9 A Neoprene, no, I cant recall that one.
10 Q Did you work with gaskets that were
11 made of cork? They were called cork gaskets.
12 A No.
13 Q Did you ever work with paper gaskets?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you work with gaskets made of
16 metal?
17 A They had a metal coating, some of them,
18 yes. Some of those high-pressure gaskets had that,
19 yes.
20 Q Did you ever work with gaskets that
21 were spiral wound?

235
1 A No.
2 Q They looked like they had a spiral in
3 them?
4 A No.
5 Q No?
6 A No.
7 Q Did you ever work with gaskets that
8 were blue in color?
9 A Not that I can recall.
10 Q Did you ever work with gaskets that
11 were made of vegetables?
12 A No, I dont recall.
13 Q Did you ever work with gaskets that
14 were made of cork?
15 A No, not that I can recall.
16 Q Did you ever see others working around
17 you with cork gaskets?
18 A No.
19 Q What other types of gaskets did you
20 work around?
21 A Thats about it. The only gaskets I

236
1 basically worked around — when you said rubber,
2 there was some rubber gaskets that would be maybe on
3 a water line, yes. But thats the only time I ever
4 worked with them.
5 Q Okay.
6 A Very rare.
7 Q Were you able to tell by looking at a
8 gasket that it was asbestos containing?
9 A Yes, because it was used for the steam,
10 and you could tell it right away.
11 Q How?
12 A It was hard and it was the black
13 gaskets, most of them. And then they did have some
14 white ones back then, too, that was asbestos. But
15 the black ones was for the high pressure. We had
16 some for high pressure and low pressure.
17 Q Who manufactured the low-pressure
18 gaskets?
19 A I couldnt tell you. It was all about
20 the same. It was — Mansville did a lot of those.
21 Q Okay. Now, Im sorry, you may have

237
1 answered, but I am still uncertain of what you are
2 telling me.
3 How could you tell a gasket was
4 asbestos containing? What were your criteria to
5 determine if a gasket was asbestos containing or
6 not?
7 A Well, number one, when we loaded on our
8 stores, it did have on the big — the boxes, it did
9 have asbestos, asbestos gaskets, and it would tell
10 you high pressure, low pressure, whatever. And you
11 took them out of the box and you put them on the
12 racks for the different sizes.
13 Q How about if a gasket was not in its
14 original packaging, if you didnt see it in the box?
15 A If you didnt see it in a — well, it
16 had to come on there, you know, in the packaging.
17 They did have it in the packaging.
18 Q Sure.
19 But you told us that you would get
20 gaskets from the storeroom and it was out of its
21 boxes at that time.

238
1 A No. We would bring everything on board
2 in the boxes and take them into our storeroom and
3 then take them off and put them up on the rack.
4 Q Sure.
5 But what I am asking you, when you went
6 to the storeroom and got a gasket, you told us it
7 wasnt in its original packaging at that time,
8 correct?
9 A No. No, no, no, no.
10 Q Oh, it was in its packaging?
11 A It was in packaging, sure.
12 Q Oh, okay. I thought you said –
13 A I mean, I wasnt going to just carry
14 two gaskets down.
15 Q Oh, okay.
16 A You went by box. The only thing I said
17 is we had to carry everything down.
18 In other words, we didnt have no
19 elevators on that ship.
20 Q Let me ask you because I think what you
21 testified to earlier was different, so let me just

239
1 clarify.
2 When you went to the storeroom –
3 A Yes.
4 Q — were the gaskets in their original
5 boxes, or no?
6 A Yes, they were in boxes.
7 Q Was the packing in its original boxes?
8 A Yes, packing would be in the original
9 boxes, yes.
10 Q Okay. Now, I want to ask you, lets
11 say you took a gasket that was not in its original
12 box, would you have any way of telling whether it
13 was asbestos containing or not?
14 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
15 A Yes.
16 Q Tell me how.
17 A Yes, because I better not use the wrong
18 gasket. And I know what asbestos gaskets looked
19 like from working with them.
20 Q What do asbestos gaskets look like?
21 A Okay. Asbestos was — most of them was

240
1 the black compressed gasket for the high — and then
2 you had some –
3 Q I only want to know asbestos. So you
4 said black compressed gaskets?
5 A Because there was two different
6 asbestos gaskets.
7 Q Thats okay.
8 A And one was the softer ones. And then
9 you had the rolls of asbestos.
10 Q Thats not what I am asking you. I am
11 asking you what did an asbestos gasket look like,
12 solely. You are telling me all black compressed
13 gaskets were asbestos?
14 A Yes, that we used on them steam lines,
15 they better be.
16 Q Okay. Any other gasket that you knew
17 outside of the box was asbestos containing by the
18 way it looked –
19 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
20 Q — other than a black compressed
21 gasket?

241
1 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
2 A There was some white ones that was
3 actually asbestos fiber, yes.
4 Q Okay. So if they were white, then you
5 believed they contained asbestos as well?
6 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
7 A Yes. It was the cloth ones, yes.
8 Q Okay. You believe white cloth
9 gaskets –
10 A Oh, you had white — now, you want to
11 know about cloth ones? Because you had the sheets
12 of — see, when you put — go ahead.
13 Q Just listen to my question to you.
14 Okay? Its only fair to you so that what your
15 testimony is is reflected clearly on the record.
16 A Um-hmm.
17 Q What I am asking you very specifically
18 is could you tell whether a gasket was asbestos
19 containing by looking at it? You told me yes,
20 correct?
21 A Yes.

242
1 Q And you told me you could tell a gasket
2 was asbestos containing if it was a black compressed
3 gasket, correct?
4 MR. TANKARD: Objection.
5 A Yes. Going on a steam line, yes.
6 Q Okay. No, I am not asking you going on
7 a steam line. I am just asking if a gasket was
8 black compressed, then you said its asbestos
9 containing; is that correct?
10 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
11 Mischaracterization.
12 A I had another way you could tell. When
13 you broke it –
14 Q I am not asking another way.
15 A Yes, I could tell.
16 Q Okay. Are there any other ways that
17 you could tell a gasket was asbestos containing just
18 by looking at it? Is the answer yes or no?
19 A Just to look at it, yes.
20 Q Okay. What is another way?
21 A If you broke — if you took that

243
1 gasket, you could break it. It would be very
2 brittle.
3 Q Thats not what I am asking you. Im
4 asking you just by looking at it.
5 A You said another way. Oh, just looking
6 at it?
7 Q Yes. Any other way?
8 A By the box where it was coming from.
9 Q Mr. Berglund, listen to my question.
10 Okay? Its very specific. And I am going to keep
11 asking it until I get an answer.
12 MR. KUZMIN: Well, Lisa, you are giving
13 him a hypothetical that you have got no foundation
14 for. And thats not fair to the witness.
15 MS. WILDSTEIN: Bill, you are not
16 allowed to have speaking objections in New Jersey.
17 MR. KUZMIN: Its not a speaking
18 objection because I am not objecting to the question
19 because you havent asked a question.
20 What I am objecting to is you
21 continuing to ask questions based on a hypothetical

244
1 which isnt fair to the witness and then taking his
2 answer to that hypothetical as fact. He said that
3 he never took a gasket that wasnt already in the
4 box.
5 MS. WILDSTEIN: You are tainting the
6 deposition record. Im going to mark it here and
7 have Judge McCormick look at it if you keep going.
8 MR. KUZMIN: Thats fine. That is fine
9 because its a mischaracterization –
10 MS. WILDSTEIN: Your objection — your
11 speaking objection is noted for the record. I
12 instruct you to stop –
13 MR. KUZMIN: And stop trying to
14 intimidate the witness by continually asking the
15 questions.
16 MS. WILDSTEIN: No one is intimidating.
17 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
18 Q Mr. Berglund, could you tell that a
19 gasket was asbestos containing just by looking at
20 it? Yes or no?
21 A On the ones that we used, yes.

245
1 Q Okay. And could you tell a gasket was
2 asbestos containing if it was black and compressed?
3 A Yes. The ones that we used, yes.
4 Q Okay. Now, any other way just by
5 looking at a gasket itself, not in the box, not for
6 use — just by looking at a gasket, could you tell
7 that it was asbestos containing?
8 A Just by not looking?
9 Q Just by looking at the gasket itself.
10 A Yes, for this reason. Let me answer
11 that one. What we — we only used asbestos gaskets
12 on those tankers for steam. I will go back to that,
13 what I told you.
14 Q Thats not my question.
15 A Thats why I knew it was asbestos. If
16 you had them gaskets, they would be asbestos.
17 Q Mr. Berglund –
18 A Yes.
19 Q — you told us that you worked with
20 gaskets that were made of paper, correct?
21 A Oh, yes. But you can tell a paper

246
1 gasket.
2 Q Okay. So what I am asking you is could
3 you tell an asbestos gasket just by looking at the
4 gasket itself? And you were telling me you could,
5 right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And you are telling me you could tell a
8 gasket was asbestos containing if it was black and
9 compressed, correct?
10 A Correct.
11 Q And I am asking you was there any other
12 way that you could tell a gasket outside of its box
13 was asbestos containing just by looking at it? Is
14 the answer yes or no?
15 A Yes.
16 Q How?
17 A A paper gasket is paper. You can see
18 it. The gasket — the black gaskets was fiberglass.
19 I mean, not fiberglass. Was asbestos.
20 Q Did you work with fiberglass on board
21 ship?

247
1 A No, we didnt have fiberglass back
2 then.
3 Q Okay. Now, so the only way you could
4 tell a gasket was asbestos containing outside of the
5 box was if it was black and compressed?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And there is no other way that
8 you could tell it was asbestos containing, correct?
9 A I guess you are correct, yes.
10 Q Okay. Now, I want you to describe for
11 me a gasket that you called Garlock. How do you
12 spell that?
13 A Well, you are asking a good one. I
14 dont know how to spell Garlock. Oh, I just
15 remember seeing the Garlock name on it. And I
16 worked with Garlock on the shipyard. See, a lot of
17 this stuff I am a little more familiar with because
18 I worked with it in New York Ship which is a few
19 years later.
20 Q What I am talking about now is at
21 Atlantic.

248
1 A Yes.
2 Q Go ahead.
3 A And that was –
4 Q How did you spell Garlock? Do you
5 know? Yes or no?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. And what did the Garlock boxes
8 look — or how did the Garlock gaskets come
9 packaged?
10 A How did Garlock gaskets come packaged?
11 Q Yes.
12 A By different sizes.
13 Q What sizes did they come in?
14 A You might have had a four inch, a two
15 inch all the way up to maybe a six, seven, eight
16 inch, ten inch.
17 Q And how did they come packaged?
18 A They come packaged — each one was in
19 the individual size.
20 Q Okay. And how did they come packaged?
21 Were they plastic, did they come in boxes, did they

249
1 come in bags?
2 A They came in cardboard boxes.
3 Q What color were the boxes?
4 A The boxes, I cant recall the color.
5 It was written on the side with Garlock right on the
6 side of the box.
7 Q It said Garlock?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay. And was the name Garlock the
10 same color as the box itself?
11 A And another reason why I know
12 Garlock –
13 Q Yes or no? Was the name Garlock the
14 same color as the box itself?
15 A No. I believe that was the — I
16 believe it was black at that time, vaguely.
17 Q Okay. How was the name written? Was
18 it block or print or script or something other than
19 that?
20 A I dont really recall the exact figures
21 on it.

250
1 Q Other than the name on the box, was
2 there any other writing on the box?
3 A Yes, where they came from and whatnot.
4 And I dont remember that one.
5 Q Okay. You dont remember where they
6 came from?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Other than the name Garlock and
9 where they came from, was there any other writing on
10 the box?
11 A Not that I can recall.
12 Q And how many gaskets came to a box?
13 A Most of the time it was 12 in little
14 containers, 12 to 24, I believe. I cant really
15 give you an estimate on that. I cant recall how
16 many.
17 Q Thats okay.
18 Now, just the Garlock gasket itself,
19 what did it look like? What color was it?
20 A The Garlock gaskets was the black
21 compressed-looking gaskets.

251
1 Q And did it have any writing on the
2 gasket itself?
3 A Not that I recall.
4 Q Did it have any identifying
5 characteristics or features about the gasket itself
6 where you could distinguish it from another brand
7 name or manufacturer of gasket outside of its
8 original packaging?
9 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
10 A I cant recall.
11 Q You cant recall?
12 A No.
13 Q I wanted to talk to you about packing.
14 Okay?
15 A (Witness nods head in the affirmative.)
16 Q Do you know, did Garlock make packing?
17 A Yes.
18 Q How did the Garlock packing come
19 packaged?
20 A It came packaged in a box, just like I
21 said. And that was — I couldnt recall how many in

252
1 a box, but it was in a roll package. It was
2 different size packings. And they would put it on a
3 long pole, like, and you would have them hanging so
4 you could cut it off.
5 Q Okay. And how many sheets came to a
6 roll?
7 A How many sheets?
8 Q Yes.
9 A Oh, I am going by the packing to go
10 around the valve stem. Now, if you are talking
11 about — the other packaging came in rolls.
12 Q I am talking about what you just
13 described.
14 A Well, what I described, that is the
15 kind of packaging that goes around the valve stem.
16 That isnt in rolls. I am talking about big rolls.
17 Q You talked — let me –
18 A Its in rolls — okay. Im sorry.
19 Q Let me stop and ask –
20 A I am thinking of the sheets.
21 Q Yeah. You are thinking of something

253
1 different, right?
2 A Yes. I am thinking of the sheets –
3 rolls.
4 Q Okay. Just listen to my specific
5 question to you. I am solely speaking about the
6 Garlock packing.
7 A Yes. Um-hmm.
8 Q It came in a roll?
9 A Yes, it came on a roll.
10 Q Okay.
11 A And there was different size packing
12 for different valves. So what you did –
13 Q Let me just ask the question. It came
14 in a box as well?
15 A Yes, they came in a box.
16 Q What color was the box?
17 A To me, it was, if I — I cant even
18 recall what color the box was, no.
19 Q All right. Did the box have any
20 writing on it?
21 A Yes. It had the same writing as the

254
1 other, Garlock, and it had where it was manufactured
2 and whatever on it. And it came from the same area
3 where we took the others because thats the way the
4 storeroom was.
5 Q So its the same description as the
6 Garlock gaskets?
7 A The same description, yes.
8 Q Just let me finish my question. Its
9 the same description of the box as the Garlock
10 gaskets you described?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And once you took the Garlock
13 packing out of its original packaging, out of the
14 box, could you distinguish one brand of packing from
15 another brand of packing?
16 A On the side of the roll, the reel I
17 called it — let me call it the reel.
18 Q Okay. Sure.
19 A It did have its logo on it, yes.
20 Q What was the logo?
21 A The logo was Garlock. And I cant

255
1 recall everything else. There was other things on
2 it.
3 Q Sure.
4 A But one of the things I did recall was
5 it had the size on it. It had a figure on it what
6 size.
7 Q Okay. And what color was that Garlock
8 packing?
9 A Black.
10 Q And what color was the name Garlock on
11 the packing?
12 A That I cant recall exactly what color.
13 Q Any other distinguishing
14 characteristics or features about that packing that
15 you can tell me about?
16 A None that I — none.
17 Q Do you believe that all Garlock gaskets
18 are asbestos containing?
19 MR. KUZMIN: Object to form.
20 A All the ones I handled, yes.
21 Q Okay. And do you believe that Garlock

256
1 made any gaskets that were not asbestos containing?
2 A That I dont know.
3 Q And what forms the basis of your belief
4 that the Garlock gaskets were asbestos containing?
5 A Because they were steam gaskets.
6 Q Did you use the Garlock gaskets on the
7 water pipes that did not have steam in them?
8 A Not the gaskets, no.
9 Q Do you believe that the Garlock packing
10 was asbestos containing?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Why do you believe that?
13 A Because it was, again, used on steam.
14 Q Have you now told me about all the
15 Garlock products that you used?
16 A Yes.
17 In other words, there is one other one.
18 Its — you have got rolls of packing. They come in
19 a roll. Thats what I got mixed up with you.
20 Q Is that different than the reel that
21 you were just telling me about?

257
1 A Yes. Yes. Its in a roll. Thats the
2 ones you take and you cut a piece off if you dont
3 have one thats precut and you make one from it.
4 Q Okay. And describe for me what that
5 looks like.
6 A That would be probably in about a — I
7 guess four, five foot. I cant really recall how
8 many feet it was, but it was a fair size good roll.
9 It came in a roll like — almost like a little roll
10 of linoleum.
11 Q Okay. And what color was the material
12 itself?
13 A That was black.
14 Q And did it have any writing on it?
15 A That — I cant recall the writing on
16 that one, no.
17 Q You cant recall if there was writing
18 or not?
19 A I cant recall that one. But it came
20 from the same area. Why I said it was with the
21 Garlock, because, see, they had everything that came

258
1 from Garlock together.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And thats where that — thats where
4 that stuff came from.
5 Q Did you ever see that roll material
6 come in its original packaging?
7 A That came in like a — just like a
8 cellophane, you know, little wraparound thing it
9 was.
10 Q Did the cellophane wraparound have any
11 writing on it?
12 A Now, that I didnt — I cant give you
13 an answer on that one. I didnt notice it.
14 Q Okay. And were you able to distinguish
15 that roll material from another brand name or
16 manufacturer of roll material once it was outside of
17 its original packaging?
18 A To be honest with you, no.
19 Q Okay. And do you know if that roll
20 material was asbestos containing?
21 A That was — that I know was asbestos

259
1 because that is the same as the gasket material we
2 used on the steam lines.
3 Q Okay. Do you know if Garlock made roll
4 material that was not asbestos containing?
5 A That I do not know.
6 Q Were there other brand names or
7 manufacturers of roll material that you simply cant
8 recall them as you sit here today?
9 MR. TANKARD: Im sorry. Counsel, what
10 material?
11 MS. WILDSTEIN: Roll material.
12 A No, I cant recall. Like I said, I did
13 not see that name on there.
14 In other words, that roll, I couldnt
15 tell you about that one.
16 Q Okay.
17 A Who had that.
18 MR. KOOI: Can you read back the last
19 question and answer, please?
20 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
21 Q You couldnt tell who manufactured the

260
1 roll material?
2 A I couldnt tell that one. It was just
3 it was in that area with the Garlock, but –
4 Q Okay.
5 A I couldnt tell you. To be honest with
6 you, I think it was John-Mansville.
7 Q John-Mansville?
8 A John-Mansville.
9 MR. KOOI: Lisa, can I just have the
10 last question before the last one read back?
11 (Whereupon, record read as requested.)
12 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
13 Q The pumps, they came with packing in
14 them, correct?
15 MR. MCNULTY: Objection to form.
16 A Yes, they did.
17 Q And the pumps, they came with gaskets
18 in them, correct?
19 MR. MCNULTY: Objection to form.
20 MR. GALLO: Objection.
21 A Gaskets — well, naturally, because

261
1 they were in use, yes.
2 Q Okay. And who manufactured the
3 original gaskets and packing that came with the
4 pumps? Do you know?
5 MR. MCNULTY: Objection to form.
6 MR. GALLO: Objection.
7 A I dont know.
8 Q Okay. And then the pipes, they also
9 came with original gasket and packing in them,
10 correct?
11 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
12 A Correct.
13 Q And you dont know who manufactured the
14 original gaskets or packing that came in the pipes,
15 correct?
16 MR. KUZMIN: Form.
17 A No. I just know what I did and what I
18 worked with.
19 Q Sure.
20 And you dont know what people who
21 worked on those pumps did prior to your having

262
1 worked on the pumps, correct?
2 A Correct.
3 Q And you dont know what people who
4 worked on those pipes did prior to your having
5 worked on the pipes, correct?
6 A Correct.
7 Q And you wouldnt know what materials
8 they used, correct?
9 A No, I wouldnt have.
10 Q Okay. Give me one second. Im almost
11 done. Dont act too excited.
12 MS. WILDSTEIN: Does anybody have that
13 list that I used to use?
14 MR. SWISS: I burned it.
15 MS. WILDSTEIN: Its actually a good
16 list.
17 MR. KOOI: I might.
18 MS. WILDSTEIN: Do you have it? Mine
19 literally crumbled.
20 MR. KOOI: No.
21 MS. WILDSTEIN: No?

263
1 MR. KOOI: Wait. Yeah, I do.
2 MS. WILDSTEIN: Oh, good for you.
3 Okay. Thank you.
4 MR. MCNULTY: For the video record,
5 that was Ryan Kooi.
6 MS. WILDSTEIN: It took me a long time
7 to make this.
8 MR. KOOI: I just copied it from
9 somebody else.
10 MS. WILDSTEIN: Yeah. All right.
11 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
12 Q Okay. Sir, I am going to ask you a
13 list of names. I want you to tell me if you
14 recognize them. Okay?
15 A Okay.
16 Q All right.
17 MR. KUZMIN: Same objection I made
18 before with regards to companies being asked about
19 not previously named in this lawsuit or in the
20 interrogatory answers.
21 Q Do you know the name ABB Lumus Global?

264
1 A Not that I can recall.
2 Q Does it strike a bell with you?
3 A It strikes a bell, but I dont know
4 where at. It could be in the shipyard.
5 Q Okay. Do you know what ABB Lumus
6 Global did?
7 A No.
8 Q Oh, let me ask you, before I read this
9 list, do you know the names of any suppliers of
10 products to Atlantic? Do you know any companies
11 that supplied products there?
12 A No. I wasnt in charge of any of that.
13 Q How about when you took the products
14 off the trucks, do you know the names of any of
15 those?
16 A I didnt take it off the trucks. I
17 took it from the warehouse it was delivered.
18 In other words –
19 Q Oh.
20 A That was for the whole refinery.
21 Q Okay.

265
1 A And they had bulk stuff come in there.
2 And we had access to get what stores we needed.
3 Q So do you know the name of any
4 suppliers of products you believe were asbestos
5 containing?
6 A Any of them people that came in there?
7 No, because I was at sea mostly. The only time we
8 did that, it could have been late at night
9 sometimes.
10 Q Okay.
11 A You dont see any trucks.
12 Q So you dont know?
13 A I wouldnt have –
14 Q Did you ever see any bills of lading?
15 A No. I didnt have nothing to do with
16 that.
17 Q All right.
18 MR. TANKARD: Can we go off the record
19 just real briefly?
20 MS. WILDSTEIN: Sure. Yeah.
21 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Its time to

266
1 change the tape anyway.
2 MR. TANKARD: I was going to ask, it
3 looks like a pretty long list. Based on your
4 questioning style –
5 MS. WILDSTEIN: I wont take offense.
6 MR. TANKARD: Im wondering if this –
7 it is 2:00 — if this would be a good time to take a
8 break before you launch into this list.
9 MS. WILDSTEIN: I would be happy to
10 pound through it, but I dont know what everybody
11 else –
12 MR. TANKARD: How are you doing, Mr.
13 Berglund?
14 THE WITNESS: Im fine. You can –
15 (Whereupon, discussion held off the
16 record.)
17 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This ends tape
18 number 4. The time is 1:49.
19 (Whereupon, recess taken — 1:49 p.m.)
20 (Whereupon, after recess — 2:50 p.m.)
21 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Okay. This is

267
1 tape number 5 of our video deposition of
2 Mr. Berglund. Our time is 2:50.
3 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
4 Q Hi, Mr. Berglund.
5 A Hi.
6 Q We are back on the record. A couple
7 preliminary questions for you.
8 Did you meet with any attorneys in this
9 case today to discuss the case prior to your
10 deposition or during your deposition?
11 A No. Only answered the door and let me
12 in. Thats all.
13 Q Okay. You didnt discuss the case at
14 all?
15 A Not at all.
16 Q Okay. Did you look at any documents
17 today or any picture books?
18 A I didnt have any documents to look at.
19 Q Did anybody provide you any documents
20 to look at?
21 A No.

268
1 Q Okay. Thanks. I am going to ask
2 you — oh, one other question.
3 A Im wrong. Just this one here,
4 (indicating). This is — they gave me this one.
5 Q Thats your deposition notice, the
6 subpoena?
7 A Thats the only thing.
8 Q Okay. Thats fine.
9 Now, with regard to valves, the same
10 question that I asked you previously with regard to
11 other products. You dont know the maintenance
12 history on any valves that were worked on prior to
13 your having worked on them at Atlantic; is that fair
14 to say?
15 A Thats fair to say, yes.
16 Q Okay. Great. Thanks.
17 Now, I am going to ask you a list of
18 questions. You tell me if you recognize any of
19 these names.
20 Do you recognize the name A Best
21 Products?

269
1 A No, not offhand. I dont remember that
2 one, recall.
3 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name
4 ACandS?
5 A Not that I can recall.
6 Q Do you recognize the name A.P. Green?
7 A No, not that I can recall.
8 Q Did you ever work with any
9 asbestos-containing cement?
10 A Cement?
11 Q Yes.
12 A Not that I — well, I call that
13 asbestos I mix up cement, you know, in the powder
14 form and you mix it. But thats –
15 Q Thats what we already discussed here
16 today, right?
17 A Yes. But thats the only cement I
18 know.
19 Q Okay. Did you ever work with a product
20 manufactured by Allis Chalmers?
21 A Allis Chalmers. I remember Allis

270
1 Chalmers being on something. Oh, I know what it
2 was. On our farm, tractor.
3 Q Okay. Did you ever work with any other
4 product manufactured by Allis Chalmers such as
5 boilers?
6 A No, not that I can recall.
7 Q Okay. Did you ever work with any
8 product manufactured by Amatex?
9 A No. That dont ring no bells.
10 Q And if you want a spelling of a name,
11 let me know. Okay?
12 Did you ever work with any products
13 manufactured by American Globe?
14 A No.
15 Q Do you recognize the name American
16 Shipbuilding?
17 A American Shipbuilding?
18 Q Yes.
19 A No.
20 Q Do you recognize the name API?
21 A No.

271
1 Q Do you recognize the name Armstrong
2 World Industries or Armstrong?
3 A I recognize the name, yes, Armstrong
4 because Armstrong is in a lot of things, linoleum
5 and whatnot, yes.
6 Q Did Armstrong make gaskets, too, that
7 you worked with?
8 A I never remember seeing any Armstrong.
9 Q Did Armstrong make any insulation that
10 you worked with?
11 A Not that I can recall.
12 Q Do you remember seeing Armstrong on the
13 work sites or on any of the boats that you worked
14 on, any of the ships?
15 A I dont recall any Armstrong.
16 Q Okay. What about Asbestos Claims
17 Management, do you know that name?
18 A Asbestos Claims Management?
19 Q Yes.
20 A I never dealt with them, no.
21 Q Do you recognize the name Artra,

272
1 A-R-T-R-A?
2 A No.
3 Q Do you recognize the name Synkoloid,
4 S-Y-N-K-O-L-O-I-D?
5 A No.
6 Q Do you recognize the name ASARCO?
7 A No.
8 Q Do you recognize the name Lake Asbestos
9 of Quebec or LAQ, L-A-Q?
10 A I cant recall.
11 Q Do you recognize the name
12 Baldwin-Ehret-Hill?
13 A The Baldwin does ring a bell, but I
14 dont know where at. I cant recall where.
15 Q Its okay.
16 A But I remember seeing that name on some
17 things.
18 Q You saw it on some things?
19 A I did. Im almost positive Baldwin,
20 but I cant — it dont ring a bell.
21 Q Did you ever see Baldwin-Ehret-Hill on

273
1 cement?
2 A See, you know why I say — can I just
3 say this? See, I still work around tearing stuff
4 apart on my job in the last 20 years, so some of the
5 things that you mention — I mean, you know you
6 worked with it, but you dont know exactly where.
7 In other words, I might have worked
8 with some of this stuff as my environmental job at
9 Clean Harbors. And thats the thing that confuses
10 me right now, so I am completely confused with that.
11 Q Okay. With all the names you talked
12 about, you are confused?
13 A No. A lot of them I never heard at
14 all. But when you say Baldwin, like we did jobs
15 where — at Baldwin Hardware, you know, places like
16 that that made all the spigots and whatnot in
17 different areas.
18 Q Have you worked with any
19 asbestos-containing products in the past 20 years?
20 A No.
21 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name

274
1 Bethlehem Steel?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And what do you associate with
4 Bethlehem Steel?
5 A What do I associate with Bethlehem
6 Steel? Well, I worked there for a long while with
7 Clean Harbors and, also, Bethlehem Steel was owned
8 by New York Ship.
9 Q Okay. Did you ever see any products
10 manufactured by Bethlehem Steel?
11 A Their steel that they used on the Kitty
12 Hawk was from Bethlehem Steel.
13 Q Do you believe any of the insulation or
14 asbestos-containing products were manufactured by
15 Bethlehem Steel?
16 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: I cant hear that
17 question. Somebodys BlackBerry is going off. I
18 need you to repeat that question, please.
19 Q Do you believe at your work site you
20 worked with any products that were asbestos
21 containing that were manufactured by Bethlehem

275
1 Steel?
2 A No. The only thing Bethlehem Steel I
3 know of is steel.
4 Q Do you recognize the name Brunswick
5 Fabricators?
6 A No.
7 Q Do you recognize the name Burns & Roe?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you recognize the name C.E.
10 Thurston?
11 A Not that I can recall.
12 Q Do you recognize the name Carey Canada?
13 A Not that I can recall.
14 Q Do you recognize the name Carey Canada
15 in association with cement?
16 A No. I didnt deal with cement.
17 Q Asbestos-containing cement. I
18 apologize.
19 A No, I didnt deal with asbestos cement.
20 Q Do you recognize the name Cassiar,
21 Cassiar Mines?

276
1 A No.
2 Q Do you recognize the name Celotex?
3 A Celotex, yes, in my deals with
4 environmental, yes.
5 Q How about prior to your deals with
6 environmental?
7 A No, I didnt.
8 Q Do you recognize the name Chemetron?
9 A No.
10 Q Do you recognize the name — Combustion
11 Engineering we already discussed, correct?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name
14 Congoleum?
15 A Well, Cono — yes, I do.
16 Q What do you associate with Congoleum?
17 A With floors.
18 Q Asbestos-containing floors?
19 A Yes, but I never had anything to do
20 with it, but I know what it is.
21 Q There were asbestos tiles used at

277
1 Atlantic, correct?
2 MR. KUZMIN: Object to the form.
3 A Asbestos tiles was probably used in
4 their mess hall or something. Years ago, they used
5 a lot of them. I wouldnt know. But I would
6 presume maybe they had them.
7 Q What about asbestos acoustical tiles,
8 were they ever used at Atlantic?
9 A No.
10 Q How about on board ship?
11 A Aboard ship was everything — I only
12 worked aboard ship. And the only place any tile
13 would be used would be in — like in the mess hall
14 or where you are taking a shower, something like
15 that. But most of the floors was just concrete,
16 painted.
17 Q But you believe that there were
18 asbestos ceiling and floor tiles?
19 A No, I cant say there was. I have no
20 idea.
21 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name

278
1 Continental Producers?
2 A No.
3 Q Do you recognize the name Dana?
4 A Dana?
5 Q Yep, D-A-N-A.
6 A Yes. Yes, because I did a lot of jobs
7 for Dana as I was in the environmental business.
8 Q How about aside from the environmental
9 business?
10 A No, nothing.
11 Q Do you recognize the name Delaware
12 Insulations?
13 A No.
14 Q DLL Industries?
15 A No.
16 Q EJ Bartells?
17 A I might — I think I dealt with them in
18 the environmental business, yes.
19 Q Did you ever use any products while you
20 were at Atlantic or at the shipyard manufactured by
21 Eagle-Picher?

279
1 A Not that I can recall.
2 Q Did you ever use or do you know the
3 name Eastco Industrial Safety Corp., E-A-S-T-C-O?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you recognize the name Federal-Mogul
6 Corporation?
7 A No.
8 Q What about, did you ever use any
9 fibreboard?
10 A Fibreboard?
11 Q Yes.
12 A Not that I can recall that I had to
13 deal with, fibreboard. If I did, I cant recall it.
14 Q Did you ever use any products
15 manufactured by Flintkote?
16 A No.
17 Q What about 48 Insulation?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you ever use any products
20 manufactured by Fuller Austin Insulation?
21 A No.

280
1 Q Did you ever use any products
2 manufactured by Gasket Holdings?
3 A No.
4 Q Did you ever use any products
5 manufactured by G-I Holdings, formerly GAF?
6 A GAF? GAF had a factory right there
7 in — the only way I know about it is they had a
8 factory thats closed down in Gloucester City.
9 Q And did you use gaskets manufactured by
10 GAF?
11 A No, not that I can recall.
12 Q What about packing?
13 A Not that I can recall.
14 Q Do you recognize the name Gatke,
15 G-A-T-K-E?
16 A No.
17 Q What about H.K. Porter?
18 A No.
19 Q Do you recognize an insulating
20 contractor named Porter Hayden?
21 A No.

281
1 Q What about an insulating contractor
2 named ACandS?
3 A No.
4 Q Do you recognize Harbison-Walker
5 Refractories? They made brick and –
6 A No.
7 Q No?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you recognize the name Harnischfeger
10 Corp., H-A-R-N-I-S-C-H-F-E-G-E-R?
11 A No.
12 Q Do you recognize the name Hillsborough
13 Holdings?
14 A No.
15 Q Do you recognize the name Huxley
16 Development?
17 A No.
18 Q How about Insul Company?
19 A Insul Company? No. I am thinking of
20 another Insul we worked with with Clean Harbors.
21 Q How about J.T. Thorpe?

282
1 A No.
2 Q Johns-Manville?
3 A John-Mansville, yes.
4 Q And we already discussed that here
5 today, correct?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Do you recall working with gaskets and
8 packing manufactured by JM?
9 A By Johns-Manville?
10 Q Yes.
11 A Yes.
12 Q Do you recognize the name Joy
13 Technologies?
14 A Joy? No.
15 Q Do you recognize the name Kaiser,
16 Kaiser Aluminum & Chemical?
17 A Kaiser, I recognize the name, but not
18 with my job there, no.
19 Q You dont associate it with
20 asbestos-containing products?
21 A Not with that job, no.

283
1 Q What about Keene, K-E-E-N-E? Did you
2 use any pipe covering manufactured by Keene?
3 A No.
4 Q What about Lake Asbestos of Quebec?
5 Did you ever use any raw fiber manufactured by them?
6 A Not at all. Nothing from there.
7 Q How about Lloyd E. Mitchell Company?
8 A No.
9 Q What about Lykes Brothers Steamship?
10 A No.
11 Q How about Manville Corporation?
12 A John-Mansville.
13 Q What about M.H. Detrick?
14 A No.
15 Q What about Mid-Valley, Inc.?
16 A No.
17 Q The Muralo Company?
18 A No.
19 Q Murphy Marine Services?
20 A No.
21 Q I think we talked about this

284
1 previously. I just want to see if maybe I have
2 refreshed your recollection. Did you ever work with
3 any products manufactured by National Gypsum?
4 A National Gypsum? No. I did work with
5 them, but not with Atlantic.
6 Q How about with the shipyard?
7 A It might have been in the shipyard. I
8 dont know what — they had so many different things
9 going on there, you dont know what might have been
10 next to you.
11 Q Do you know what products Gypsum may
12 have made?
13 A No, not at all. I know the ones that
14 we dealt with as environmental, it was wallboards.
15 Q Did you ever work with any wallboard
16 while you were at Atlantic, any wallboard at all?
17 A No.
18 Q Did you ever work with any wallboard at
19 the shipyard?
20 A At the shipyard, no.
21 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Hold on. Okay.

285
1 It blocks out the sound. I cant hear you. Im
2 sorry.
3 MS. WILDSTEIN: Thats okay.
4 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Go ahead.
5 BY MS. WILDSTEIN:
6 Q Do you recognize the name Nicolet?
7 A No.
8 Q What about NARCO, N-A-R-C-O, North
9 American Refractories?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you recognize the name Oglebay
12 Norton Company?
13 A No.
14 Q What about Owens-Corning Fiberglas?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What products did you work with
17 manufactured by Owens-Corning?
18 MR. KUZMIN: Objection.
19 A We worked with fiberglass in the
20 shipyard.
21 Q What about at Atlantic?

286
1 A At Atlantic — I dont recall working
2 with hardly any fiberglass at all at Atlantic.
3 Q How about other Owens-Corning products
4 at Atlantic? Did you work with Owens-Corning –
5 well, you testified about Kaylo.
6 A Yes.
7 Q And did you work with Owens-Corning –
8 A Yes.
9 Q — gasket material, too?
10 A Some — there might have been some, but
11 I recall what I — you know, what I recalled. And I
12 imagine there was.
13 Q What about Owens-Corning packing
14 material?
15 A Owens-Corning. I dont remember any
16 packing coming from Owens-Corning, no.
17 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name Pacor,
18 P-A-C-O-R?
19 A No.
20 Q As in a contractor? No?
21 A No.

287
1 Q Do you recognize the name Philip Carey?
2 A No.
3 Q You dont recognize Philip Carey?
4 A (Witness shakes head in the negative.)
5 Q No?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. Do you recognize the name
8 Pittsburgh-Corning Corp.?
9 A No.
10 Q Do you recognize the name Plibrico?
11 A No.
12 Q Do you recognize the name Prudential
13 Lines?
14 A No.
15 Q What about Quigley, Q-U-I-G-L-E-Y?
16 A No.
17 Q What about Raybestos?
18 A No.
19 Q Raymark?
20 A No.
21 Q Raytech?

288
1 A No.
2 Q Rockwool? Did you work with any
3 Rockwool insulation?
4 A I know what it is, but I never worked
5 with it.
6 Q It was pink.
7 A I know that they used to blow it in the
8 houses, but I never worked with it.
9 Q Did others work with it at the shipyard
10 or at Atlantic?
11 A They might have worked with it in the
12 shipyard, but I never seen them do it.
13 Q Did you ever work with any batting
14 while you were at the shipyard?
15 A No.
16 Q No?
17 Do you recognize the name Rutland
18 Fire & Clay?
19 A No.
20 Q Ruberoid?
21 A Ruberoid or Ruberoid?

289
1 Q Ruberoid?
2 A Ruberoid. In my environmental
3 business, yes.
4 Q Do you recognize the name SGL?
5 A SGL? No.
6 Q Shook — how about Shook & Fletcher?
7 A No.
8 Q How about Skinner?
9 A No.
10 Q How about Standard Asbestos
11 Manufacturer & Insulation?
12 A No.
13 Q How about Standard Insulation?
14 A No.
15 Q How about Swan Transportation?
16 A No.
17 Q How about Unarco?
18 A No.
19 Q What about UNR?
20 A No.
21 Q How about U.S. Gypsum?

290
1 A Yeah, I know about it, but I never
2 worked with it.
3 Q Did you ever work with any insulation
4 manufactured by U.S. Gypsum?
5 A Not that I can recall. There might
6 have been some on the ship, I am talking about at a
7 shipyard that they worked with, but I didnt work
8 with it.
9 Q Did you ever see others working around
10 it — around you with it at the shipyard?
11 A No. I couldnt recall if they were or
12 werent.
13 Q Okay. What about USG?
14 A No.
15 Q How about U.S. Lines?
16 A No.
17 Q How about U.S. Minerals?
18 A No.
19 Q How about Utex?
20 A No.
21 Q Now, this one, W.R. Grace? Did you

291
1 work with products manufactured by W.R. Grace such
2 as spray?
3 A I cant recall.
4 Q What about Wallace & Gale?
5 A No.
6 Q Waterman Steamship?
7 A No.
8 Q Western Asbestos?
9 A No.
10 Q Western McArthur?
11 A No.
12 Q All right. Well, thank you very much.
13 Thats all I have for you, but other attorneys
14 probably have questions as well.
15 A Okay.